Why do black people have more STD's?

[sonofzeal]

Well... there's evidence to suggest that, while not a "conspiracy" per se, AIDS may be the fault of some Dutch scientists doing smallpox vaccinations. If so, it seems like it was some fluke off-chance interaction, but one with devastating consequences. The eradication of smallpox through massed vaccinations still remains one of humanity's great triumphs in the 20th century, but AIDS might be its dark legacy.

Nevermind, I was thinking of the OPV AIDS hypothesis. Google has mislead me, and my own poor proofreading skills have been revealed to the world! Oh noes!

[Sally]

The AIDS epidemic didn't begin in the 80s. There were cases in New York homosexuals in the late 70s, after the 1976 Bicentennial celebration which brought many people to America, including a lot of sailors on ships. Contemporaneously, there were cases among several women who traveled from Paris to Haiti and back, and a case in a Scandinavian nurse who worked in Africa and died of an immunodeficiency that couldn't be controlled. Gay doctors treated the early American patients in New York and San Francisco and LA and published reports on the strange syndrome. The fact that Cantwell doesn't seem to know the fact that AIDS existed before the 80s makes his document fairly suspect. And the monkey angle isn't just accepted; there were documented cases in Africa from the 50s on.

Cantwell's book cited at the end of his article was published by Aries Rising Press. That's his own publishing company. He's not a reputable researcher. Read And the Band Plays On, an exceedingly well-research book which chronicles the epidemic and its beginnings.

[sonofzeal]

Huh. Man, and it wasn't even Cantwell and smallpox I was thinking of, it was Hooper and polio. Even this one isn't accepted, though mostly through a lack of evidence. It also contradicts some timeline work that suggested AIDS made the jump much earlier than the 50's, but that work's been questionedtoo, so... dunno.

Serves me right for not reading the links carefully enough. Somehow I got smallpox and polio switched in my head, and tried to grab the most thoroughly-referenced. I noticed a few details were off (I remembered it being about monkey tissue, not about activating dormant viruses), but I figured that was just because it's been ages since I looked that stuff up. Anyway, yeah, Cantwell's a nut.

[Sally]

Huh. Man, and it wasn't even Cantwell and smallpox I was thinking of, it was Hooper and polio. Even this one isn't accepted, though mostly through a lack of evidence. It also contradicts some timeline work that suggested AIDS made the jump much earlier than the 50's, but that work's been questionedtoo, so... dunno.

Serves me right for not reading the links carefully enough. Somehow I got smallpox and polio switched in my head, and tried to grab the most thoroughly-referenced. I noticed a few details were off (I remembered it being about monkey tissue, not about activating dormant viruses), but I figured that was just because it's been ages since I looked that stuff up. Anyway, yeah, Cantwell's a nut.

Oh good! I respect your opinions highly, Zeal, and I was worrying there for a minute.

[sonofzeal]

Oh good! I respect your opinions highly, Zeal, and I was worrying there for a minute.

Good to hear!

No, I'm not a crackpot. Just absentminded. =P

[Moondragon007]

A lot of people scream "Conspiracy!" when Stupidity is a more plausible explanation.... how does that saying go? Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity... or something to that effect.

[Electroid]

And equally, a lot of people like the Jews ignored what was in their faces until they ended up in concentration camps.

A lot of people would rather appear 'smart' and not overly cautious, but these people end up the dumb ones in the end.

I'm not calling you dumb, but what I am saying is that I find it ironic how it's easy to mock and gang up on the person who makes themselves vulnerable by suggesting there might be more powerful forces beyond their control operating in the background. Most people clearly don't like that idea and would rather look like the ones responsible for what goes on. This is the backbone spirit behind Capitalism and Christianity and the idea of absolute free will. People who subscribe to these ideas revel in putting the blame on the poor and misfortunate. Again, my point exactly, that these are the culprits and would want nothing other than for you to think blacks also innately have lower IQ scores and are prone to violent behavior because they just are like helpless monkeys. Healthcare should only be afforded to those who've 'worked' for it, and they're great to run chemicals and other experiments on because again, they're at the level of an animal. None of these blacks have been put in the situation they're in, heavens, are you a conspiracy theorist? Ok, maybe they just can't afford to buy condoms because the white man has made them too poor, oh and perhaps they can't afford to get tested, and just maybe they've been so brainwashed so that they can't make proper decisions (I guess that goes for the majority of homosexuals somehow!) but to propose that it could be biologically induced as a means of genocide against most hated groups....that's just preposterous for you to think these the type, have you any evidence to suggest malicious intent?

Just blame blacks and homosexuals that's all I've to say. They need some money and an education I mean really look at their pathetic souls.

[Moondragon007]

Um.... huh?

I'm not saying conspiracies don't exist - just look at the Enron scandal - I'm saying that they're not responsible for everything bad in the world. Some is stupidity, some is laziness, some is the work of evil individuals (which is not a conspiracy cos there's only one person involved), some is poor planning, some is simple human error, some is just plain old bad luck. Blaming everything on conspiracy doesn't solve the problem, or help you prevent a future occurance.

[Electroid]

Ok, I understand that. I'd just like to ask for a little more respect when it comes to my views, too. I think it's becoming a little like a haha point the finger at the girl who thinks it's a conspiracy while not actually having any better standing theories of their own other than the obvious, and it doesn't account for a lot of the mystery involved with the targeted groups, honestly.

[Moondragon007]

I think you've got me confuse with someone else. My comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, hence my use of the phrase, "A lot of people".

And the disproportionate percentage of black people who are poor as opposed to the percentage of white people who are poor is a complex sociological problem with multiple causes (not all of them understood or even known) and no simple solution.

[Sally]

And equally, a lot of people like the Jews ignored what was in their faces until they ended up in concentration camps.

Please don't say stupid things like that because obviously you don't know what you're talking about and you will get called on it every time, unless you simply choose to post on conspiracy-based forums.

We're not ganging up on you. You aren't the first person to suggest that almost everything you don't think is good is due to conspiracies, and you won't be the last. You're making no sense and presenting no logical arguments, let alone proof, for anything you've said. AVEN has a lot of pretty intelligent and knowledgeable members, and if you don't do anything other than claim you're being picked on, you're not going to get respect.

[Blerdivor]

The US government has experimented on certain populations before.

[PiF]

native americans for one..... http://www.care2.com/news/member/407433860/1397320

oops sorry thats not experimentation...thats just taking the piss

[Blerdivor]

native americans for one..... http://www.care2.com/news/member/407433860/1397320

oops sorry thats not experimentation...thats just taking the piss

Dis they ran a sterilization program with a specific clause for them. Model Eugenical Sterilization Law

[Electroid]

Let's break this down for a moment.

Please don't say stupid things like that because obviously you don't know what you're talking about and you will get called on it every time, unless you simply choose to post on conspiracy-based forums.

So you're saying AVEN's philosophy and politics section is open to whatever a person might believe or say with the exception of conspiratorial discussion, because as we all know, conspiracies are a waste of time, irrelevant, and don't exist. Leave that talk for conspiracy-only related forums with the rest of the nutters. Gotcha...

We're not ganging up on you. You aren't the first person to suggest that almost everything you don't think is good is due to conspiracies, and you won't be the last.

I would hate to find out what your definition of blatant mockery, sarcasm, and disrespect is. And please direct me to where else I've posted about conspiracies? Where do you get the information you're pulling about how 'almost everything I don't think is good is due to conspiracies'? I have a guess...

Frankly, hardly anything I think revolves around conspiracy, but sometimes it's very useful to consider.

You're making no sense and presenting no logical arguments, let alone proof, for anything you've said.

And your standard for logic is whatever doesn't involve government or corporate interference? Ok...

So theories with no substantial 'evidence' like lack of condom usage, healthcare coverage, sexual education and the like is all complete fact, or more reasonable for us to assume in comparison to mine which is just silly, improbable stuff about genocide...and that's just crazy...because everyone knows that goverment/corporations or any elite organizations in history have never EVER thought or acted in accordance with ulterior motive against the public.

and if you don't do anything other than claim you're being picked on, you're not going to get respect.

I'll remember that next time when I predict that I'll be picked on and not claim it beforehand in order to prevent it. Kthxbaii.

[PiF]

picked on??? i sense a certian age group with a used to getting thier own way or stamping thier feet upon us

this is the internet..not everyone will agree with you..in here most are intelligent enough to use google then claim it as thier own

it is a public forum..it has the public in it

and as to this comment electoid.... "And equally, a lot of people like the Jews ignored what was in their faces until they ended up in concentration camp"

did you reread that and say ..god I should have edited that out

if you don't like people disagreeing either be prepared to stand your ground or be more carefull what you post next time

[Blerdivor]

In the 80's and 90's the CDC and Department of Health gave experimental vaccinations to babies without parental consent...for research purposes.

[PiF]

http://www.all-natural.com/part-3b.html

although I have to say the americas are not the only country to have done this...they just seem to be..with the exception of some third world countries...the most recent 1st world country

[Electroid]

No man, whatever. If you're bringing me to the level of a child because of my annoyance by other people's juvenile comments....we definitely have a problem.

I simply don't think it's mature or insightful to make snide remarks that add no constructive meaning to the OP. "Mcdonalds is a conspiracy, chinese food is a conspiracy, spilt whiskey is a conspiracy, harhar...."

"Accept it and be gone"...no, sorry, I won't back down and I won't take disrespect. So you can either accept that or we can keep going. I am standing my ground.

[PiF]

good for you

now just combine true facts with your new found confidence and we have a good step forward

[Electroid]

Do we forget about how brainwashed they were into thinking that they were still in charge of their lives through ultimatums? Don't resist, don't look like a fool now, just walk in and take a shower, enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6_bBmy-9bw

[PiF]

I think we have just discovered another planet and they are on it

just looks like another person making a living making statements

[Arathorn]

This is the backbone spirit behind Capitalism and Christianity and the idea of absolute free will. People who subscribe to these ideas revel in putting the blame on the poor and misfortunate.

So if I understand you correctly then you say that Christians are rich capitalist who blame and oppress poor people?

[dasein]

This is the backbone spirit behind Capitalism and Christianity and the idea of absolute free will. People who subscribe to these ideas revel in putting the blame on the poor and misfortunate.

So if I understand you correctly then you say that Christians are rich capitalist who blame and oppress poor people?

Just the rich capitalist white christians. They have been selling God to the people in return for power..

[Display]

Now the question is why are there such a difference after living nearly 300 years in America? Do black people have more unprotected sex, are they more susceptable or is there another reason? Before you blame poverty, remember that there are more poor white people than poor black people in America.

But the percentage of black people that are poor is much greater than the percentage of white people. When looking at percentages and not just raw numbers, it becomes clear that poverty is much more prevalent among black people than white people.

Nika

[Display]

And equally, a lot of people like the Jews ignored what was in their faces until they ended up in concentration camps.

:o

Ignored? More like blinded by sheer disbelief and inability to comprehend how such mass cruelty can take place.

Nika

[Display]

This is the backbone spirit behind Capitalism and Christianity and the idea of absolute free will. People who subscribe to these ideas revel in putting the blame on the poor and misfortunate.

I have a lot of issues with Christianity but blaming the poor and misfortunate is not one of them. If anything, I see churches and other Christian-based organizations donating and creating more charities for the poor than anyone else around here. Not to mention, I routinely have Christians offer to buy me things (from ice cream to deafblind communicators) in the spirit of charity, and while slightly misguided, the intention is far from "blaming the poor and misfortunate."

Nika

[dasein]

This is the backbone spirit behind Capitalism and Christianity and the idea of absolute free will. People who subscribe to these ideas revel in putting the blame on the poor and misfortunate.

I have a lot of issues with Christianity but blaming the poor is not one of them. If anything, I see churches and other Christian-based organizations donating and creating more charities for the poor than anyone else around here. Not to mention, I routinely have Christians offer to buy me things in the spirit of charity (while slightly misguided, the intention is far from "blaming the poor.")

Nika

It's not your run-of-the-mill friendly neighborino that is a problem. It's the neo-conservatives in the republican party inner-circle that believe in three things: that a strong christian moral framework produces a stable society, free-markets are the best way to run an economy, and the collapse of the soviet union proved that god was on their side.

The poor, according to their worldview, are victims of their own sinful natures, be it sloth or lust or idolatry etc.(oddly, since free market economics classifies self-interest as a enlightened, avarice is A OK).

[Display]

This is the backbone spirit behind Capitalism and Christianity and the idea of absolute free will. People who subscribe to these ideas revel in putting the blame on the poor and misfortunate.

I have a lot of issues with Christianity but blaming the poor is not one of them. If anything, I see churches and other Christian-based organizations donating and creating more charities for the poor than anyone else around here. Not to mention, I routinely have Christians offer to buy me things in the spirit of charity (while slightly misguided, the intention is far from "blaming the poor.")

Nika

It's not your run-of-the-mill friendly neighborino that is a problem. It's the neo-conservatives in the republican party inner-circle that believe in three things: that a strong christian moral framework produces a stable society, free-markets are the best way to run an economy, and the collapse of the soviet union proved that god was on their side.

I can see what you're saying. I'd be careful not to claim it as the "spirit of Christianity" though, as Electroid said. That's accusing a much wider circle of people than the rich capitalist neo-conservative Christians you're talking about.

Nika

[Sally]

In the 80's and 90's the CDC and Department of Health gave experimental vaccinations to babies without parental consent...for research purposes.

No, they didn't, and there is no "Department of Health" in the federal government. In the 1990s, newly-developed vaccinations against Hepatitis B and several other diseases were added to standard recommended vaccinations. They certainly weren't given to babies without parental consent.