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Asexuals and Sexual Jealousy?


patient_husband

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The only solution that presents itself to my mind is that I could seek sex outside of our relationship. When we discuss this my wife becomes upset, although she has trouble articulating why. How can someone who has no sexual feelings at all can still feel sexual jealousy?

Our marriage has taught me the difference between love and sex. I am very confident I could have an erotic connection outside our relationship without betraying the unique bond between us. I would never “cheat” and do something behind my wife's back, but I wish we could open our marriage in an honest and open way. Of course, any erotic connection would have some romantic element, but it could would only be tiny in comparison to the immense love I have for my wife. She admits she isn't afraid of losing me or me finding a deeper connection with another woman. She feels jealous. How can someone be so possessive with something they don't care about at all?

Maybe she is afraid you will develop an attachment to someone else and leave her for them. That happens all the time. Not pretending to be an expert or anything; that's just my thought.

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Masturbation is fine if all you need is a quick physical release, but it's completely unsatisfying emotionally. There is a strong need for emotional bonding that is part of sexuality. It's not all one thing or the other - never just pure physical lust or deep emotional need - it's all mixed in together and impossible to completely separate.

As an asexual I completely understand that (although it doesn't apply to me). But I'd have thought that is also exactly the reason that people such as patient_husband's wife may be very unhappy with the idea of sex outside the relationship. [edit: correction made]

At the same time, sexual people still need sex. It is no easier to deny that need for a connection then it is for an asexual person to have it. Saying that an asexual person can just have sex with a sexual person to fill that need is, in many ways, little better than masturbating. There is no connection between the two people.

For the OP's wife to be afraid and resentful of him wanting that connection with someone else is understandable, but there is no way around that situation. In that situation, regardless, someone is going to be unhappy. The post about the black hole said it perfectly.

Now that I have some more understanding of the things she has said to me I am actually less interested in sex. I wanted a connection that no longer seems possible. It's not that I want her less, it's just that I have no expectations anymore. That is depressing for both of us. She is now initiating sex more than I. She says she wants the intimacy of sex. When I ask her what that means she says "I want to make you happy." It is strange that my desire for her which has been so frustrating to her over the years, is now a cause of anxiety when it wanes.

Said perfectly. My gf recently discovered that she may be asexual, and adly, I see myself being in that same situation shortly, now that i know there is no connection there.

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sexualwithasexual

Ugh. I'm just catching on Patient_Husband's thread here and it's all too painful to read. I need some encouragement please. Anyone out there (Olivier - others?) who are having some success around this? Not just the jealousy, but the "black hole" either way thing that Sally (i think) posted? It's such a roller coaster being on AVEN. But at least for me, it's relieving some pressure from my actual relationship for now. Time, hopefully for us both to process. And I feel like I'm learning so much from others. (i'm sexual w/an asexual for 14 years - lesbian - trying to make it work as best as possible.)

Galen - I've know some ex-prostitutes - they never enjoyed it. So in an odd kind of way, you'd be right back in the same dilemma. Kinda funny. But I also realize a lot of what I want most is to be desired and like Patient_Husband, the erotic part of the sexual connection.

As far as trying the whole extra-marital experiment, it sounds like maybe first - continue with what you are doing - letting your wife come to terms with her own self-identity. That's major. Like coming out was for me. In fact it took years! Then I'd say your relationship seems mighty strong and could handle something like outside affairs. Many sexuals with sexuals do this and it's actually fairly common in European countries, but here (I'm in the US) we have not really figured out very healthy ways of going about this. So maybe talk to some German or French friends if you have them. I'm serious! I as an American who can not really wrap my head around actually going through with affairs (my partner says she's not comfortable with it either) have European friends who explain how it's almost a given in their countries. Complicated, but it works (not always of course). But I think all the posts have had their merits here on the risks involved and especially when it comes to your wife simply feeling inadequate. No matter how many times you tell her you love her as she is, just knowing that sex is something you love, and knowing it's something she may never love sharing with you back - well, that's just hard. It's hard to put classical music, backpacking and sex on the same level. I'd imagine whether you were sexual or asexual. I mean sex does involve your nakedness, bodily fluids, precious time, and something primal really. Even if you aren't jealous at all, I think you can see it's not the same. Maybe that's a cultural thing, but it's there none the less.

So I too have no answers. I have often thought affairs were the answer, but one thing I realized at some point, is that even if I and my partner could be okay with this idea, I'd be involving a third party - a person whom I most likely would not be very close to. What is their experience going to be like in all of this? If they are not emotionally involved, how is this anymore fulfilling than the sex you have with your wife? Maybe you separate erotic from emotional, and maybe you know yourself well enough to know that for sure, but how do you know that about the extra lover? Just some thoughts. I would like to know more answers...

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Concluding in two words:

right palm

Not to be disrespectful, but are you serious?

Masturbating may ease the physical tension, but it isn't sexual connection and does nothing for the underlying problem. Reading these forums I've seen this come up again and again. Asexuals suggest masturbation will solve sexual spouse's problems. I suppose it may make sense if you don't have sexual desire. My wife sometimes suggests the same thing. She seems unable to comprehend that my sexuality consists of more than a need to have an orgasm.

To a sexual the "take care of it with your hand" solution makes about as much sense as telling someone "You don't need friends. You can just talk to yourself"

yeah i figured that out fairly early on for sexuals sex becomes both an intimate physical and emotional connection and between some peole also a form of spirtual bonding it seems that asexuals in general cant seem to replicate those feelings i gave up trying leaves you with a distinct clinical approach to sex as it is whithout the magesty that the sexuals have always associated with sex around me. In someways i think asexuals have somehow managed to skip this physical neccesity to reach these heights and from what ive read/experienced im fairly sure im right, or maybe not i doubt anyone will ever truely know. But I can still appreciate why sexuals want sex maybe not understand it all that well beyond the chemical fact that sex 'realy' is a drug and from the go most sexuals become addicted. I think the asexual community for the bigger part has to come to accept this at sometime to but seen as most of us really dont get care about sex i dont realy see the point in trying unless of course there in a relationship which is how i learned but it just took a little time, although it might have helped that i thought i was sexual at the time and im extremely empathetic... i dont know im confused hopefully u guys can get the jist of this

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Now that I have some more understanding of the things she has said to me I am actually less interested in sex. I wanted a connection that no longer seems possible. It's not that I want her less, it's just that I have no expectations anymore. That is depressing for both of us. She is now initiating sex more than I. She says she wants the intimacy of sex. When I ask her what that means she says "I want to make you happy." It is strange that my desire for her which has been so frustrating to her over the years, is now a cause of anxiety when it wanes.

No, that isn't strange at all to me. What she's saying to you when she says she wants to make you happy is that she wants to keep the relationship with you. I think she's worried that if you don't have desire for her anymore, you will leave, because she knows how important sex/erotic connection is to you. I went through the same situation with my husband decades ago, long before I realized I was asexual. Believe me, an asexual knows quite well what a sexual wants, and if we can't provide it, we fear abandonment. We also fear never finding anyone again, for obvious reasons.

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sexualwithasexual
In someways i think asexuals have somehow managed to skip this physical neccesity to reach these heights and from what ive read/experienced im fairly sure im right, or maybe not i doubt anyone will ever truely know.

This part helps me, and gives me hope. I can learn to interpret my partners deeper connection with me via other means.

But I can still appreciate why sexuals want sex maybe not understand it all that well beyond the chemical fact that sex 'realy' is a drug and from the go most sexuals become addicted.

This part doesn't help. Having a way to connect deeply to another person via sex, is not an addiction. It's like saying asexual's lack of a need to have sex to connect is a phobia around sex.

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Masturbation is fine if all you need is a quick physical release, but it's completely unsatisfying emotionally. There is a strong need for emotional bonding that is part of sexuality. It's not all one thing or the other - never just pure physical lust or deep emotional need - it's all mixed in together and impossible to completely separate.

As an asexual I completely understand that (although it doesn't apply to me). But I'd have thought that is also exactly the reason that people such as patient_husband's wife may be very unhappy with the idea of sex outside the relationship. [edit: correction made]

At the same time, sexual people still need sex. It is no easier to deny that need for a connection then it is for an asexual person to have it. Saying that an asexual person can just have sex with a sexual person to fill that need is, in many ways, little better than masturbating. There is no connection between the two people.

Yes. It's not a nice situation to be in and I simply don't think there are any easy answers. :(

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As far as trying the whole extra-marital experiment, it sounds like maybe first - continue with what you are doing - letting your wife come to terms with her own self-identity. That's major. Like coming out was for me. In fact it took years! Then I'd say your relationship seems mighty strong and could handle something like outside affairs. Many sexuals with sexuals do this and it's actually fairly common in European countries, but here (I'm in the US) we have not really figured out very healthy ways of going about this. So maybe talk to some German or French friends if you have them. I'm serious! I as an American who can not really wrap my head around actually going through with affairs (my partner says she's not comfortable with it either) have European friends who explain how it's almost a given in their countries.

I'm from Europe and am very dubious about this - at least around my area. Affairs happen of course but for it to be a healthy part of a committed relationship is not at all common, as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong.

Personally I really can't see any good in it under normal circumstances, even in the case of sexual-asexual marriages (though I'm sure there are people who have made it work). If the outside sex makes a deep, emotional bond then that will surely cause damage to the marriage. If the outside sex doesn't then I don't see that it would help fulfil the need anyway. It would probably only work for people who have a physical, rather than an emotional, need for partnered sex. That's my guess anyway.

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Personally I really can't see any good in it under normal circumstances, even in the case of sexual-asexual marriages (though I'm sure there are people who have made it work). If the outside sex makes a deep, emotional bond then that will surely cause damage to the marriage. If the outside sex doesn't then I don't see that it would help fulfil the need anyway. It would probably only work for people who have a physical, rather than an emotional, need for partnered sex. That's my guess anyway.

I think there is both a physical and emotional need. Perhaps having the physical met helps some, I don't know.

What is worse experiencing great sex and then losing it, or never experiencing it and realizing that you won't ever as long as you stay true to your spouse while always wondering if it can be as good as you believe? Would it become addictive?

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Ok I have a serious question for the OP and any other sexuals who are having trouble with their ace partner. Have you ever considered speaking to a doctor about taking hormone supplements or seeking therapy with the aim of, respectively, reducing your levels of sexual desire or changing they way you think about emotional connections and physical intimacy?

It just seems like you think the only solution to your sexual problem is to find another outlet for it, well what about reducing the need for that outlet in the first place?

I woud have thought it would be worth talking to your doctor about if your marriage is on the line.

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LadyLongLocks
Ok I have a serious question for the OP and any other sexuals who are having trouble with their ace partner. Have you ever considered speaking to a doctor about taking hormone supplements or seeking therapy with the aim of, respectively, reducing your levels of sexual desire or changing they way you think about emotional connections and physical intimacy?

It just seems like you think the only solution to your sexual problem is to find another outlet for it, well what about reducing the need for that outlet in the first place?

I woud have thought it would be worth talking to your doctor about if your marriage is on the line.

I already have a very low level of sexual desire and it does NOT reduce the emotional connection and physical intimacy I desire. So, no, I would never consider taking anything to reduce my desire.

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Ok I have a serious question for the OP and any other sexuals who are having trouble with their ace partner. Have you ever considered speaking to a doctor about taking hormone supplements or seeking therapy with the aim of, respectively, reducing your levels of sexual desire or changing they way you think about emotional connections and physical intimacy?

It just seems like you think the only solution to your sexual problem is to find another outlet for it, well what about reducing the need for that outlet in the first place?

I woud have thought it would be worth talking to your doctor about if your marriage is on the line.

Well, for one thing, any medication that would be effective in reducing libido *in my experience* also comes with fun side effects like soul-crushing depression, vast amounts of weight gain, and all of the other fun things that hormones can screw up like bone-density changes, increased risk of heart attacks/blood clotting/certain cancers. That's not a list to sneeze at.

Secondly, I personally feel like my libido and sexuality are parts of me that I value - I don't feel like they are negotiable. So I wouldn't personally go to any great lengths at this point to keep a relationship with such a huge incompatibility. However, I'm not in a situation where I need to worry about throwing away 20 years of marriage - and I would personally like to do my best to avoid it, so...that probably colors my answer a bit.

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Wings of a Dream

Okie dokie, I feel the need to at least offer some advice considering I am an asexual lady (22) in an intimate relationship with a sexual man (not married but still at the kanoodling).

Now, the sex is all for him and he knows that. I don't really care about the sex, I'm indifferent to it now but in the beginning I must admit I was fairly repulsed by the idea (though not as drastically as I know some are towards it). When we reached the point where he was starting to feel the urge to express his love for me physically, we came up with a system where we'll go out and do something I want to do (see a film he's not huge on, go shopping, innocent cuddling that doesn't go any further, etc) and then at some point in the not to distant future to that we'll have sex (or it'll flip the other way round; sex first then my choice). So it sort of works on a action/reward basis; he has to do something he's not crazy about and in return he gets something he does like (and vice versa for me). I don't doubt that a lot of people wouldn't approve of such a system or they'd come up with a list of critisism as long as my arm but it works for us and I'd recommend other couples at least trying it.

Anyways, give it a try; it won't do any harm after all.

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sexualwithasexual
Ok I have a serious question for the OP and any other sexuals who are having trouble with their ace partner. Have you ever considered speaking to a doctor about taking hormone supplements or seeking therapy with the aim of, respectively, reducing your levels of sexual desire or changing they way you think about emotional connections and physical intimacy?

It just seems like you think the only solution to your sexual problem is to find another outlet for it, well what about reducing the need for that outlet in the first place?

I woud have thought it would be worth talking to your doctor about if your marriage is on the line.

I can see why you would ask this, given the OP. They sought out solutions like this, but only geared towards the asexual. Also, we continued the discussion on seeking sex outside the relationship as a "solution". That seems fairly evenly unpopular among both asexuals and sexuals because of the inherent complications that would entail.

But I don't see how placing the same logic (medicating) on to sexuals makes any more sense than for an asexual. It is sad however, to see how many asexuals themselves seem to want to try this to save the relationship. I guess the reason we think to look at the asexual is that they are unfortunately in this situation, in the minority, and we daft humans tend to go with majority rules. Never thought that was that sensible, but we do it. It takes education (AVEN) and patience to work towards seeing how wrong this can be.

I for one, have actually gotten to places in my relationship where I have regretted my own sex drive. My partner and I have always tried to end our conversations around our sexual differences with, "There's nothing wrong with either one of use, we just don't really want the same things when it comes to sex, and that's hard for both of us." At some point, my partner started to say I was more normal, and I felt that was really sad. I would dissuade her as best I could, and since finding AVEN, I think she feels a little better about this.

If there were a drug I would not take it. I still find the sexual energy I have (albeit repressed) to be an interesting part of who I am. I try to imagine that I am using the energy in different ways, like in my art, in yoga, etc. I've heard that yoga was in some cases used in India for young, highly sexed boys as a healthy way to express some of their sexual energy without the boys being aware of this. I think I can realize that my partner loves me entirely without actual sex. But this doesn't mean that I'll never desire to have sex with her or someone else! And I wouldn't try to take that desire out of me.

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sexualwithasexual
Okie dokie, I feel the need to at least offer some advice considering I am an asexual lady (22) in an intimate relationship with a sexual man (not married but still at the kanoodling).

Now, the sex is all for him and he knows that. I don't really care about the sex, I'm indifferent to it now but in the beginning I must admit I was fairly repulsed by the idea (though not as drastically as I know some are towards it). When we reached the point where he was starting to feel the urge to express his love for me physically, we came up with a system where we'll go out and do something I want to do (see a film he's not huge on, go shopping, innocent cuddling that doesn't go any further, etc) and then at some point in the not to distant future to that we'll have sex (or it'll flip the other way round; sex first then my choice). So it sort of works on a action/reward basis; he has to do something he's not crazy about and in return he gets something he does like (and vice versa for me). I don't doubt that a lot of people wouldn't approve of such a system or they'd come up with a list of critisism as long as my arm but it works for us and I'd recommend other couples at least trying it.

Anyways, give it a try; it won't do any harm after all.

I'm really impressed with your solution, with your ability it seems, to be open about it and to have found a win/win solution. I don't think many would criticize as both of you are in an agreement that works for you and makes sense, and at least somewhat, fulfills needs and desires. Congratulations, and thanks for an encouraging post!! :cake:

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Okie dokie, I feel the need to at least offer some advice considering I am an asexual lady (22) in an intimate relationship with a sexual man (not married but still at the kanoodling).

Now, the sex is all for him and he knows that. I don't really care about the sex, I'm indifferent to it now but in the beginning I must admit I was fairly repulsed by the idea (though not as drastically as I know some are towards it). When we reached the point where he was starting to feel the urge to express his love for me physically, we came up with a system where we'll go out and do something I want to do (see a film he's not huge on, go shopping, innocent cuddling that doesn't go any further, etc) and then at some point in the not to distant future to that we'll have sex (or it'll flip the other way round; sex first then my choice). So it sort of works on a action/reward basis; he has to do something he's not crazy about and in return he gets something he does like (and vice versa for me). I don't doubt that a lot of people wouldn't approve of such a system or they'd come up with a list of critisism as long as my arm but it works for us and I'd recommend other couples at least trying it.

Anyways, give it a try; it won't do any harm after all.

Around our place, requests for sex (or particularly loathsome chores for me) are often met with a wink and the question "What's in it for me?"

It works, but the wink is important. The harm, or risk of harm, comes if this game creates a sense of obligation or entitlement on either side, rather than just remaining a tender reminder that you each do things for the other out of love, with no concrete expectation of repayment.

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