So a guy walks into a gym...

[thylacine]

Okay, first, I did not have time to research all the "little details," however, recently this guy goes into a gym and shoots up all the ladies in the aerobics class. After looking at some disturbing stuff he wrote (online) about his life, it appears he felt "rejected" all his life and (sob!) lonely...

In my life I have seen a lot of these types who are always "rejected" and they don't understand why, and they assume women are b----es, but the sad fact is, some of them are rejected because they act downright scary. Such as, they talk about scary stuff (like killing people and blowing stuff up) and they stockpile military type weapons in the basement... I have been acqainted with characters of this type. One of these paragons of virtue asked me to marry him 1 1/2 weeks after being introduced to me, and could not figure out why I was not interested (beside my being asexual, the dude was scary!).

So... ! In conclusion, I cannot feel sorry for people like that. I feel sorry for the victims, who avoided this person because these types give off this "vibe" which causes subconcious fear in many women (i.e. the spooky feeling a girl gets when the guy creeps her out).

Does anyone among us feel sorry for someone like this? I don't.

Of course we may feel sorry for his being mentally ill, but I don't feel sorry he was "lonely!"

[Charlieee]

But the scary thing works so well! Just look at all the success Edward Cullen is having!

*joking*

Yeah, I agree with you, that's definitely a huge explanation. But perhaps they just don't realize how scary they're being? *shrug*

[Sammie]

Such as, they talk about scary stuff (like killing people and blowing stuff up) and they stockpile military type weapons in the basement...

I'd date that! Military weapons are soooo interesting and blowing stuff up is FUN!

Unfortinutely, the kind of guys who consider stockpiling military type weapons 'cool' are usually the same guys who want girls to act like girls, so they in turn freak out over my interest in blowing stuff up and my obscure knowledge about tanks. :P

One of these paragons of virtue asked me to marry him 1 1/2 weeks after being introduced to me,

ok... that would weird me out too.

[thylacine]

Oh come on. Edward Cullen is NOT scary. He's just you know... a little pale.

[Charlieee]

[Knows No Bounds]

On his website he wrote that he hadn't had sex since 1990.

I guess that's what happens when, uh, "B"sexuals don't have sex for a couple of decades.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/05/gym.sh...iary/index.html

And no, I don't feel sorry for them. There's PLENTY of help out there and I believe most of them if not all them are very aware that there's something wrong and that it's not "everyone else." This includes help for those that are lonely.

Clearly this guy knew what with all the planning of the shooting and what not.

Since 2000 his websites name was www.crazygeorge.com for Cripes sake!

http://www.whois.org/whois/crazygeorge.com

It wasn't 'til 2003 that he started to have the web pages pointed to just his regular name.

Here's a 2005 page from that site and things are fine - you'd never know a thing, until you get to the bottom and see his

a.k.a.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040527024557/...orgesodini.com/

Yep - It's just like Oprah says...."If you listen, people WILL TELL YOU who they are." :P

P.S.

I also met someone just as ill. He asked me to marry him after knowing me for 3 wks. and when I asked him how long ago he went shopping for that ring he told me "uh...about 2 weeks ago."

Effin creepy and bizarre beyond words.

[thylacine]

My problem didn't bother to shop for a ring. He just told me to marry him, which I answered, "Uh... don't yah think you're moving a little too fast... ?" then announced to all family & friends we were getting married, without asking me first, then when I said, "Uh... Yah know, I don't think we're right for each other... " then he tells me he has a gun collection, "I'm trained to kill!"

[Sammie]

My problem didn't bother to shop for a ring. He just told me to marry him, which I answered, "Uh... don't yah think you're moving a little too fast... ?" then announced to all family & friends we were getting married, without asking me first, then when I said, "Uh... Yah know, I don't think we're right for each other... " then he tells me he has a gun collection, "I'm trained to kill!"

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand THAT'S the moment you get a restraining order on his ass.

[oneofthesun]

In my life I have seen a lot of these types who are always "rejected" and they don't understand why, and they assume women are b----es, but the sad fact is, some of them are rejected because they act downright scary. Such as, they talk about scary stuff (like killing people and blowing stuff up) and they stockpile military type weapons in the basement... I have been acqainted with characters of this type. One of these paragons of virtue asked me to marry him 1 1/2 weeks after being introduced to me, and could not figure out why I was not interested (beside my being asexual, the dude was scary!).

They say that serial killers tend to be loners, but I think they have the cause and effect backwards. Loners don't turn into serial killers, serial killers end up being loners because they scare people.

[KayleeSaeihr]

I don't think I act creepy... But I've been rejected, or had the appearance of rejection by all manner of people from both sides of the gender divide... And rejection hurts, and it's very isolating. It's hard to get your feelings off of your chest if you have no one to talk to about them... So I can sort of relate... Though I've never thought of going around shooting those that rejected me...Ok maybe a little (not seriously), but everyone can dream :P

[Astryda]

I know what you are talking about, thylacine.

I also can't stand guys who are 'rejected' then 'bi*ch' on girls because they've rejected them (not only for reasons you mentioned). The World is full of such people.

[thylacine]

Women reject men when they pick up on that "psycho vibe" a lot of them give off. They have this aura around, a neon sign that flashes "serial killer." So of course people avoid them, and they don't get it.

[Sammie]

Women reject men when they pick up on that "psycho vibe" a lot of them give off. They have this aura around, a neon sign that flashes "serial killer." So of course people avoid them, and they don't get it.

Strange enough, when a woman gives off that same vibe, she's 'exiting' and 'edgy'. *rolls eyes*

[henshin]

i have no sympathy for this guy whatsoever. he murdered innocent people. i hate the inevitable sexism you find when things like this happen, as though its every man's right to be sexualy and emotionally fulfilled by a woman and if this doesn't happen then, well, those goddam bitches got to PAY.

wank.

[thylacine]

Like, what I said, they give off this psycho vibe, so women avoid them, & they don't realize they scare all the girls away. For instance, my neighbor (they foreclosed & new people are there) had a guy renting a room in his basement. There is a stone wall (low to the ground) separating the properties. I am in my driveway, washing my Buick. Without permission, the guy who lives in the basement climbs over my stone wall, and shuffles into my property, walks across my lawn, yelling, "Hey! Hey! Listen!" "Huh?" "My name is ---- ! I work with attack dogs!" Already, he seems like a real terrific guy. "My dog would kill anyone but me!" Yawn. "Would you go out with me, please?" And he is all messy & got food stains all over his face. "Well... er... John, I'm real busy these days... don't have much time to go out, know what I mean?" "Hey! I can always get someone else to go out!" "Yeah? Have a nice time." One night my Buick was in the garage & I was checking the oil & stuff. I heard a noise & looked up. His face was in the window. Then he was gone... spooky!

[Sammie]

Why is a thread about creepy guys in the gender forum? just wondering...

[thylacine]

It's actually about the dude who shot up the gym, but then we began talking about creepy guys, because this guy complained he was always rejected, and I point out that guys who are rejected are creepy...

Whereas the guy who shot up the ladies exercise class blames women for his problems, and some people will pity the fool and etc.

[thylacine]

Like this other guy I went out with, I met him once, he kept talking about, "Wow. I'm really, really excited about our relationship!" He kept talking about "our relationship" and how our relationship "is going to be" and stuff. He has our life together all planned and he's telling me all about our life together and how it's going to be...

I dumped that one fast, too. Like, he's probably wondering, maybe chicks don't like me 'cause I'm not rich, or 'cause I'm overweight, blah-blah-blah. Nope. He's strange. That's it.

[niku-bot]

You know what is really making me fucking angry about this case? Some of the people around me, and comment posters on the online articles, are blaming feminism for this. Some people are blaming female hypergamy for this. There's so much victim-blaming in cases like this and that BS really needs to stop.

[Charlieee]

You know what is really making me fucking angry about this case? Some of the people around me, and comment posters on the online articles, are blaming feminism for this. Some people are blaming female hypergamy for this. There's so much victim-blaming in cases like this and that BS really needs to stop.

I still really can't wrap my mind around victim blaming. I mean, I understand how the argument goes, but... people actually believe it??

[thylacine]

Oh heck, people these days blame feminism for everything...

Global warming: Those damn feminists again, they all want careers, so they drive to work, and cause the ice caps to melt!

Endangered species: Those damn feminists! They all want alligator shoes to walk all over men!

Boring movies: It's those feminists again, they all want to see chick flicks.

But seriously, I am sick of people blaming women's lib for everything that is wrong with the universe.

[KayleeSaeihr]

Source

This is, I think, an important post.

I’ve been thinking about men in women’s studies classes, and jokes about "male-bashing."

This semester’s women’s studies class is like most: overwhelmingly female. I’ve got 32 women and 6 men in the class. I met individually last Thursday with the women for "all-female day"; I met with my guys on Tuesday for "all-male day." This morning, we all got back together in the classroom for the first time as a full group in nine days.

Most of the guys hadn’t spoken in class all semester; today, all did. A number of the women in class were eager to ask questions and create dialogue; up until this week, mine has been the only consistent male voice in the classroom. The guys did a great job of sharing about many topics (we spent a lot of time on the "myth of male weakness") But two of the guys did something that I see over and over again from men in women’s studies classes. They prefaced their remarks by joking "I know I’m going to get killed for saying this, but…" One of them, even pretended to rise from his desk to position himself by the door, saying that "Once I say this, I know I’m going to have to make a run for it." Most of the women laughed indulgently, and I even found myself grinning along.

When men find themselves in feminist settings (like a women’s studies class) they are almost always in the minority. When I was taking women’s studies classes at Berkeley in the 1980s, I was usually one of only two or three men in the room. In my women’s history classes over the past decade, men average 10-20% of the students, never more. Even when they make up as much as a fifth of the class, they generally do less than a tenth of the talking. That isn’t surprising, given the subject matter — I was often fairly quiet in my own undergraduate days.

But one thing I remember from my own college days that I see played out over and over again is this male habit of making nervous jokes about being attacked by feminists. In my undergrad days, I often prefaced a comment by saying "I know I’ll catch hell for this". I’ve seen male students do as they did today and pretend to run; I’ve seen them deliberately sit near the door, and I once had one young man make an elaborate show (I kid you not) of putting on a football helmet before speaking up!

All of this behavior reflects two things: men’s genuine fear of being challenged and confronted, and the persistence of the stereotype of feminists as being aggressive "man-bashers." The painful thing about all this, of course, is that no man is in any real physical danger in the classroom — or even outside of it — from feminists. Name one incident where an irate women’s studies major physically assaulted a male classmate for something he said? Women are regularly beaten and raped — even on college campuses — but I know of no instance where a man found himself a victim of violence for making a sexist remark in a college feminist setting! "Male-bashing" doesn’t literally happen, in other words, at least not on campus. But that doesn’t stop men from using (usually half in jest) their own exaggerated fear of physical violence to make a subtle point about feminists.

There’s a conscious purpose to this sort of behavior. Joking about getting beaten up (or putting on the football helmet) sends a message to young women in the classroom: "Tone it down. Take care of the men and their feelings. Don’t scare them off, because too much impassioned feminism is scary for guys." And you know, as silly as it is, the joking about man-bashing almost always works! Time and again, I’ve seen it work to silence women in the classroom, or at least cause them to worry about how to phrase things "just right" so as to protect the guys and their feelings. It’s a key anti-feminist strategy, even if that isn’t the actual intent of the young man doing it — it forces women students to become conscious caretakers of their male peers by subduing their own frustration and anger. It reminds young women that they should strive to avoid being one of those "angry feminists" who (literally) scares men off and drives them away.

Here’s where I need to issue a big ol’ mea culpa. Until today, I don’t think I fully realized how common this strategy of joking about male-bashing really is. I didn’t realize how I, as a teacher, permit and thus encourage it. Too often, I’ve been so eager to make sure that my small minority of men feels "safe" in the classroom that I’ve allowed their insecurities to function to silence the female majority — in what is supposed to be a feminist setting! Though I haven’t made such remarks myself, I’ve laughed indulgently at them without stopping to consider their function.

Part of being a pro-feminist man, I’ve come to realize in recent years, is being willing to face the real anger of real women. Far too many men spend a great deal of time trying to talk women out of their anger, or by creating social pressures that remind women of the consequences of expressing that anger. Many men, frankly, are profoundly frightened by women who will directly challenge them. In a classroom, they don’t really fear being struck or hit. But by comparing a verbal attack on their own sexist attitudes towards physical violence, they hope to defuse the verbal expression of very real female pain and frustration. I know that it’s hard to be a young man in a feminist setting for the first time, and I know, (oh, how I know) how difficult it is to sit and listen to someone challenge you on your most basic beliefs about your identity, your sexuality, your behavior, and your beliefs about gender. It’s difficult to take the risk to speak up and push back a bit, and it’s scary to realize just how infuriating your views really are to other people, especially women.

The first task of the pro-feminist male in this situation is to accept the reality and the legitimacy of the frustration and disappointment and anger that so many women have with men, and to accept it without making light of it or trying to defuse it or trying to soothe it. Pro-feminist men must work to confront their own fears about being the target of those feelings. Above all, we cannot ever compare — even in jest — verbal expressions of strong emotion to actual physical violence or man-bashing.

After all, one of the pernicious aspects of the "myth of male weakness" is that men can’t handle being confronted with women’s anger. We either run away literally or figuratively, disconnecting with the television, the bottle, the computer screen. But we’re not little boys who will physically lash out in rage when challenged, nor can we be so fearful that we dodge and defuse and check out. That’s not what an adult does in the face of the very real emotion of another human being.

I’ve allowed this kind of joking and defusing to go on too long in my classes. It’s going to stop now.

UPDATE:

Please don’t get into thread drift here. This is not a forum to question the basic tenets of feminism, or issues of domestic violence and abuse, or why I’ve banned anyone in the past. I’m going to be much more careful about monitoring what is posted here. This is not a free speech zone, nor need it be. It’s my blog, and y’all have other forums for discussing gender issues.

[ProdeFemme]

Sweet link Saeihr. Lot of truths in it.

[thylacine]

That thing about protecting men's feelings reminds me of when I was at this party, and this guy called me a whore, and I said he was disgusting, and later I was told by someone else who was at the party that I 'hurt the poor boy's feelings.'

But anyway, this guy blames women for not getting a date... then shoots up the gym. Did he ever think to ask any of these girls out, before shooting the place up? Or did he expect them to fall all over him or something?

Either a. he scared the girls away by being weird, or b. he expected them to be in hot pursuit of him, and was mad that they did not break down his door in the middle of the night, or c. he was only interested in attractive women and never thought to ask out someone who is not a supermodel.

But people need to realize that he had a problem to begin with, and to stop blaming the women for rejecting him.

[Charlieee]

That's a really interesting article. But I think there's a lot more to it, and instead of addressing the consequences of these actions, I think it might be more productive to address the causes...

I haven't made any comments like that (or at least I don't remember making them....) but as one of the three or four guys in my whole school (a women's college), I can understand where they're coming from. Not wanting to say things that are going to offend anyone else, and just plain being uncomfortable. Jokes are often used to diffuse uncomfortable or awkward situations. And that sounds like what's going on in that article - making jokes about the women's reactions in order to diffuse the uncomfortableness of being the extreme minority in that room.

Or I could be completely wrong. *shrug* Either way, awesome article, and I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future...

Sorry for derailing the thread further, thylacine.

[thylacine]

No... it didn't really derail too much...

But here's my thing. To recapitulate: The guy who shot up the gym class again -- a. did he have a bad attitude about women to begin with, or a mixed up idea about relationships to begin with, and act like a weirdo, thus scaring the girls all away, and cause himself to be rejected? and b. it disturbs me that people are blaming the women for rejecting him.

[ProdeFemme]

Oh, well, obviously anyone who actually thinks any woman is at fault for Mr. Shootemup's act of crazy is just as off center mentally as he is <_<

But of course, that blame game has been going on since we supposedly waved that shiny red apple in Adams face and it'll continue long after this thread fades away into the shadows of Aven.

We live in a society where a bar is at fault if someone decides to drive after drinking to much; where McDonalds is at fault because some old broad wasn't more careful with her coffee, small wonder there are those who think that women are to blame for some "poor bastard" and his downfall

[Sciatrix]

Oh, well, obviously anyone who actually thinks any woman is at fault for Mr. Shootemup's act of crazy is just as off center mentally as he is <_<

But of course, that blame game has been going on since we supposedly waved that shiny red apple in Adams face and it'll continue long after this thread fades away into the shadows of Aven.

We live in a society where a bar is at fault if someone decides to drive after drinking to much; where McDonalds is at fault because some old broad wasn't more careful with her coffee, small wonder there are those who think that women are to blame for some "poor bastard" and his downfall

On the McDonald's thing--dude, that lady suffered third-degree burns from that coffee. She was only suing for her medical bills. I would have sued, too! That's not "coffee is hot, durrrhh," that was an unreasonable level of heat.

But yeah. Victim-blaming sucks. Nice Guys^TM suck, too, and it's pretty obvious from his repugnant blog that this fellow was a pretty nasty example.

[oneofthesun]

Like, what I said, they give off this psycho vibe, so women avoid them, & they don't realize they scare all the girls away. For instance, my neighbor (they foreclosed & new people are there) had a guy renting a room in his basement. There is a stone wall (low to the ground) separating the properties. I am in my driveway, washing my Buick. Without permission, the guy who lives in the basement climbs over my stone wall, and shuffles into my property, walks across my lawn, yelling, "Hey! Hey! Listen!" "Huh?" "My name is ---- ! I work with attack dogs!" Already, he seems like a real terrific guy. "My dog would kill anyone but me!" Yawn. "Would you go out with me, please?" And he is all messy & got food stains all over his face. "Well... er... John, I'm real busy these days... don't have much time to go out, know what I mean?" "Hey! I can always get someone else to go out!" "Yeah? Have a nice time." One night my Buick was in the garage & I was checking the oil & stuff. I heard a noise & looked up. His face was in the window. Then he was gone... spooky!

I wonder what would happen if we actually told creeps like this why we turn them down? Would they appreciate it or would we end up in the hospital?

[thylacine]

You don't tell a scary person he is scary, or else he'll go for his AK-47. You just say you're "busy" and "don't have time" and "don't worry, there's lots of girls out there for you."