Marriage w/ Asexual wife about to end

[SexualHubby]

Wow, this thread really got off topic.

Can we bring it back on topic now?

I have read everything posted although I started this thread and I have not been active in bringing everyone up to date with my situation. I am curious about how things are going with others and what solutions they are finding. In my case, I'm pretty certain now that my wife is not really asexual but suffers from a low libido- can play the same havoc in a relationship, but there is more light at the end of the tunnel in my case than with most on Aven. Anyway, I wish you all the best- let's keep the dialogue going!

[BunnyK.]

With all of the above in mind, here's the sexual with an asexual frustration story:

[kiss]

[pull away quickly-no long kisses]

[rub shoulder]

[scowl]

You look nice

Uh-huh...thanks

I would like...

How about a raincheck?

I'm feeling really close to you right now and...

Well, I don't

How about me giving you a backrub. I know you like that.

OK

[backrub]

Thanks, I liked that.

Could we...

No

I think it would feel nice for both of us...

[rolls over and goes to sleep]

The word that seems to come to mind with this situation is co-dependency:

The sexual experiences countless rejections (is that love...?)

The asexual silently tolerates pain, anger, frustration, etc. (is that love...?)

and they both really want to stay in the relationship

There are so many things wrong with that, that I don't even know where to begin. And that's my point. I read post after post of sexuals coming here to really just find out how to get their asexual to have more sex with them so that they can reach a compromise on how they can get more sex out of the deal. That's not a compromise. That's not even really trying. If that wasn't the case, you'd know why your scenerio is a really bad way to approach it and why your co-dependency model is really messed up.

Seems your beginning to understand.

Beginning to understand? You are being sarcastic there I think? We know the game you play all too well. It's just frustrating when we hear sexuals claim they want one thing...when most really don't.

Okay, I really do take issue with this post. First of all, for a lot of the sexuals on this site, compromise will *out of necessity* include having more sex...or at least more sexual-ish things. I think I'm the only sexual on this site with the temerity to bitch that I was only getting sex once every one or two weeks, and my situation was a little bit different - and *I'm* a little different than most sexuals in that I'm highly sexually driven and not even a little bit willing to be in a relationship with an asexual. How is "having more sex" not a compromise if you are only having sex 4 times a year? If you want sex even 4 times a month, 4 times a year is going to make you want to go into a coma.

To accuse the sexuals here of not really trying to compromise with their partners is so cruel and insensitive that it's almost laughable, but not. These aren't people who have been expecting orgies every night. These are guys that have been married for *years* and have been unhappy for *years*. Most of the active sexual posters on this thread have not even been on the site a year. They haven't seen the scads of posts on what exactly is the best approach for a sexual partner to take, nor would the advice on those threads necessarily even work with their particular situation. If they weren't interested in trying, they wouldn't be here, they'd be in divorce court.

As far as the game-playing, .....

Well, let's put it like this. Most people in their life have had a situation where they really, really wanted something. Maybe it was a piece of cake. Maybe it was to be friends with one particular person. Maybe it was a dream job. And you know, that for one reason or another, pushing too hard for it or being too desperate for it would be socially unacceptable and could even spork your chances of getting what you wanted. But you found yourself, against your will, hoping against hope, asking for someone else's leftover cake or asking that person to go to the movies *again* even though they laughed at you last time or stopping by your boss's office every day to ask about the promotion. I think that's the situation a lot of sexuals find themselves in. They know it's counterproductive to ask, they know it leads to nothing but rejection, they know that it's nothing more than a hassle to the other person, and yet they want it so damn hard that they find themselves doing it anyway. It's not a game. It's HORRIBLE. It's humiliating and demoralizing. To call it a game is to fundamentally misunderstand what's driving the behavior. A game implies manipulation and intent - whereas from the sexual end, I'd characterize it more as desperation.

[AVENCakes]

Okay, I really do take issue with this post. First of all, for a lot of the sexuals on this site, compromise will *out of necessity* include having more sex...or at least more sexual-ish things. I think I'm the only sexual on this site with the temerity to bitch that I was only getting sex once every one or two weeks, and my situation was a little bit different - and *I'm* a little different than most sexuals in that I'm highly sexually driven and not even a little bit willing to be in a relationship with an asexual. How is "having more sex" not a compromise if you are only having sex 4 times a year? If you want sex even 4 times a month, 4 times a year is going to make you want to go into a coma.

That wasn't an example of compromise- that was an example of an annoying trend that causes asexuals to develop a severe aversion to physical affection that they actually crave.

When I talk about compromise on here, I mean something that both partners agreed to. And I certainly hope that's what everyone else means. A compromise in this situation should be both people working together to find something that works. Something that tkaes both partners' needs into account and that both agreed to .

That wasn't a compromise- that was a progression all too many asexuals are familiar to in which certain sexuals somehow manage to get to "I want sex" from "I like hugs", and the asexual feels obligated to go along with it because it's in innocent little increments until they've slipped well past their comfort zone just to try and keep their partner happy.

They haven't seen the scads of posts on what exactly is the best approach for a sexual partner to take, nor would the advice on those threads necessarily even work with their particular situation. If they weren't interested in trying, they wouldn't be here, they'd be in divorce court.

Why is it so hard to use the search function? Yeah, it's a little intimidating, I'm not that happy about it either, and sends you to east asia when you're trying to find out about how to make greek food, but my spiritual energy has never been better since I read that thread on feng shui. And that way you can find out what you actually need to know rather than asking a question that just gets you redirected to antoher thread. It'd be a lot easier than seeing people answer the same exact question every month, and people from a year or several years ago probably have suggestions that are relevant and that people nowadays might not think of.

This isn't against sexuals- it's just a general question. It happens with new members constantly, and on just about every forum.

[sonofzeal]

Topic locked pending Admod review.

Please do not carry on arguments/discussions from this thread anywhere else, until things have been sorted through. "Sexuals Partners, Friends, and Allies" holds a special place as a meeting ground and outreach the rest of the world. If things start flaring again, we the admods will take the necessary steps to maintain order here. Everybody got it?

[n44ww]

A sexual man always wanting more, with an asexual or a sexual woman, I think is a hallmark of being a sexual man.

Okay, I really don't get this. Are you trying to say that sexual men are doomed to be unfulfilled with their sex lives?

As a general rule, yes. Times infinity for a relationship with an asexual.

And there are sexual men who are happy with their sex lives and women who have a larger sexual appetite than their sexual male partner can fulfill.

Of course.

With the exception of a "friendship with benefits", having sexual relations by walking up to your female partner and just asking for it just doesn't work, unless the female sexual is easily aroused. The normally accepted process is to romance, stimulate interest, ease into it, foreplay and then sex. Thinking of a sexual guy trying to convince a sexual woman, it seems this process is mandatory, otherwise the sexual woman will not respond physically (pardon me for this, but she won't develop spontaneous vaginal lubrication, which is a physical sign of her favorable response to the sexual man's overatures).

Yeah, women probably don't get spontaneously aroused as often as men do- but it's also less obvious. Which means girls can also masturbate publically in ways men can't even dream because of that. It also seems like a lot of non-sexual things can get them aroused- like the vibrations from a bus or bicycle.

Also- why the heck would friends with benefits girl be different than romantic relationship girl? They're both girls.

OK, I was told the friends with benefits are sex, no feelings. If by "romantic relationship girl", you mean feelings with no sex, then I'd say they would be polar opposites.

And, yes, while a lot of girls need emotional stimulation- that's not true of all of them. Some girls pounce their male partners and need little to no foreplay. There are also some guys who need a lot of foreplay.

It sounds like you're working from the mistaken idea that women are inhrently less sexual than men.

I'm limited by my experience here. I've known one that was more sexual than me. Over twenty years ago.

There are guys with lower libidos and girls with extremely high ones, just like there are guys who don't see sex as that big a deal (yes, I'm still talking sexuals) and girls who can barely go a week wtihout it.

Agreed

I think it would feel nice for both of us...

Yeah... That's a great way to convince someone for whom sex is unenjoyable. "Okay, you didn't like it any time we've done it before, but this time you will. Really."

She has liked it and said so, though very rarely. If you know a successful means to convince someone for whom sex is unenjoyable, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I can tell you catagorically that I do not.

[Sally]

If you know a successful means to convince someone for whom sex is unenjoyable, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I can tell you catagorically that I do not.

Why would you try?

[n44ww]

Galen- Your wedding night was the first time your partner and you had sex, right?

How did you make it clear that sex would be expected? How often did you tell her you'd be expecting sex, how often did she say she wanted it? How often did you discuss the sexual nature of your relationship? How sexual had you two been prior to getting married? Was she a virgin at the time? Why didn't you have sex before your wedding night, and what reasons did she give for not?

In other words- what leads you to the conclusion that your wife actually knew what she was getting into by marrying you? What leads you to the conclusion that she's the only one who was playing the game- if you didn't make your needs clear, then you played just as much of a game on her. From your comments in your first post, it sounds like she thought you had the abnormally high libido and she was on the normal scale ("this led to her accepting that I may not be so abnormal") so I'm curious exactly what makes you think that she had the knowledge of how big and how often sex would be a factor.

I know I am not Galen, who this is directed towards, but I would like to weigh in with another sexual perspective. I think it is safe to say that sexuals are in the majority and asexuals are in the minority. The majority of us probably plan on having kids and get married (at least in part) to have kids that aren't (legally) bastards! I think it is a fair assumption to anticipate sexual relations as the means to have kids. I know I did. Now, if there was never any discussion about having kids, then I would have to agree with you, that sex should have been explicitly talked about, as well as contraception.

[Sally]

There was a semi-discussion somewhere up on the thread (before it got locked and unlocked) that intimated that the idea that simply trying to come up with a middle point of having sex is a good compromise. I.e., sexual wants it twice a week, asexual would rather once a month, so the compromise would be once a week.

That's just a numerical compromise, not one that human beings really tested and approved. The compromise isn't just frequency; it involves a lot of other stuff. Maybe there's no compromise possible, and if the two people don't keep that in mind, they are locking themselves into a fight, when they come out from opposite corners of the ring and tussle, and then retire to their corners. I don't know what the answer is in any particular situation, but it's different from the answer to any other situation, and there may be BE NO ANSWER in some situations. You can't just say to your partner, "here's what I'm willing to give" and fold your arms, waiting for the response.

[n44ww]

Okay, I really do take issue with this post. First of all, for a lot of the sexuals on this site, compromise will *out of necessity* include having more sex...or at least more sexual-ish things. I think I'm the only sexual on this site with the temerity to bitch that I was only getting sex once every one or two weeks, and my situation was a little bit different - and *I'm* a little different than most sexuals in that I'm highly sexually driven and not even a little bit willing to be in a relationship with an asexual. How is "having more sex" not a compromise if you are only having sex 4 times a year? If you want sex even 4 times a month, 4 times a year is going to make you want to go into a coma.

Thank you, from 'comatose' N44WW

That wasn't an example of compromise- that was an example of an annoying trend that causes asexuals to develop a severe aversion to physical affection that they actually crave.

When I talk about compromise on here, I mean something that both partners agreed to. And I certainly hope that's what everyone else means. A compromise in this situation should be both people working together to find something that works. Something that tkaes both partners' needs into account and that both agreed to .

That wasn't a compromise- that was a progression all too many asexuals are familiar to in which certain sexuals somehow manage to get to "I want sex" from "I like hugs", and the asexual feels obligated to go along with it because it's in innocent little increments until they've slipped well past their comfort zone just to try and keep their partner happy.

I meant it to simply be a statement of my reality. In other words, with an asexual spouse that is unwilling to talk about or do anything the least bit sexual, this is my life. With a partner that will not talk about anything sexual, compromise, of course, is impossible.

They haven't seen the scads of posts on what exactly is the best approach for a sexual partner to take, nor would the advice on those threads necessarily even work with their particular situation. If they weren't interested in trying, they wouldn't be here, they'd be in divorce court.

Why is it so hard to use the search function? Yeah, it's a little intimidating, I'm not that happy about it either, and sends you to east asia when you're trying to find out about how to make greek food, but my spiritual energy has never been better since I read that thread on feng shui. And that way you can find out what you actually need to know rather than asking a question that just gets you redirected to antoher thread. It'd be a lot easier than seeing people answer the same exact question every month, and people from a year or several years ago probably have suggestions that are relevant and that people nowadays might not think of.

This isn't against sexuals- it's just a general question. It happens with new members constantly, and on just about every forum.

You raise an excellent point for people who are new to AVEN and to the AVEN hosts. Maybe someone could cut and paste some of this information to an appropriate place on the AVEN website that newbies could easily find. Otherwise, there will just be more and more newbies asking the same questions.

[n44ww]

If you know a successful means to convince someone for whom sex is unenjoyable, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I can tell you catagorically that I do not.

Why would you try?

By successful convincing, I took it to mean that the asexual would be willing to give it a try, because, perhaps, her "unenjoyable" bit isn't black and white, but a gray area. If there is a portion of the gray area where we could come together, that would be so much better than my current life, where any talk or action of a remotely sexual nature is off limits. But that might be because of other old conversational baggage, past history, who knows.

Other asexuals have posted a wide range of things they will do and will not do. Everyone seems quite a bit different in the range of things they find acceptable and unacceptable. I would like to do as much as possible within the "acceptable" range and would try to avoid the "unacceptable" range.

So, I would try because it has the potential of improving both of our lives. To me, this seems logical and loving.

[n44ww]

There was a semi-discussion somewhere up on the thread (before it got locked and unlocked) that intimated that the idea that simply trying to come up with a middle point of having sex is a good compromise. I.e., sexual wants it twice a week, asexual would rather once a month, so the compromise would be once a week.

That's just a numerical compromise, not one that human beings really tested and approved. The compromise isn't just frequency; it involves a lot of other stuff. Maybe there's no compromise possible, and if the two people don't keep that in mind, they are locking themselves into a fight, when they come out from opposite corners of the ring and tussle, and then retire to their corners. I don't know what the answer is in any particular situation, but it's different from the answer to any other situation, and there may be BE NO ANSWER in some situations. You can't just say to your partner, "here's what I'm willing to give" and fold your arms, waiting for the response.

I agree 100%. Compromise is impossible when one of the two parties is unwilling to listen, evaluate, negotiate and resolve an issue.

[AVENCakes]

I know I am not Galen, who this is directed towards, but I would like to weigh in with another sexual perspective. I think it is safe to say that sexuals are in the majority and asexuals are in the minority. The majority of us probably plan on having kids and get married (at least in part) to have kids that aren't (legally) bastards! I think it is a fair assumption to anticipate sexual relations as the means to have kids. I know I did. Now, if there was never any discussion about having kids, then I would have to agree with you, that sex should have been explicitly talked about, as well as contraception.

I fully acknowledge that sexuals do expect sex and the reasoning- I'm not saying you shouldn't by any means. I'm just saying that "we're the majority so our views are obvious to everyone" isn't always true.

Galen's wife seemed to think that she was the normal one and that Galen had an unusually high sex drive, not that she had an unusually low one/is asexual. If neither of them talked about their future sex life, then they both got married thinking they were on the same page when they weren't. That is no one's fault, no one did anything specifically wrong, I'm not saying that either party is to blame because they aren't.

Also- I don't think planning for kids is the same thing as talking about your overall sex life. If you're just having sex to have kids, as the asexual might be, then once she gets pregnant sex will stop and it won't resume until you're ready for another kid, so that could easily be 1-5 sexless years. Then once you decide you have enough kids, sex will stop altogether, so that's about 18 sexless years if you want to stay together until your kids leave home. It is important to talk about kids, but I don't think it's any safer to think that agreeing to have kids is the same as agreeing to non-reproductive (ie. sex when you aren't trying for kids) sex.

[Sally]

By successful convincing, I took it to mean that the asexual would be willing to give it a try, because, perhaps, her "unenjoyable" bit isn't black and white, but a gray area. If there is a portion of the gray area where we could come together, that would be so much better than my current life, where any talk or action of a remotely sexual nature is off limits. But that might be because of other old conversational baggage, past history, who knows.

Other asexuals have posted a wide range of things they will do and will not do. Everyone seems quite a bit different in the range of things they find acceptable and unacceptable. I would like to do as much as possible within the "acceptable" range and would try to avoid the "unacceptable" range.

So, I would try because it has the potential of improving both of our lives. To me, this seems logical and loving.

Good answer.

[Rainy]

delete

[n44ww]

I too have been married for over 30 years to a asexual male partner. For the majority of our relationship I did not understand why my husband did not desire sex, nor displays of any physical warmth or attraction to me. For many years I frequently became jealous of any female coworkers whom he developed a warm and extra friendly relationships with. He always responded that he was not having an affair, and that I was mentally unbalanced and paranoid. He never once even hinted that he was physically incapable of developing a sexual relationship with these women due to the same issues which were affecting our sexual life. However, he did form unusually close relationships with a few of them who clearly had a sexual attraction to him. After 17 years of marriage, he confessed to me once that he never really had a sexual desire for me. At the same time he told me that he was quite attracted to a few women now and then. It is too difficult to express how painful and devastating it was to here this from him. Knowing what I do thirty years later, I feel that he intentionally wanted me to believe that his lack of sexual drive within our marriage had everything to do with me, and nothing to do with his own lack of sexuality.

I would like to hear from other sexually normal spouses if they have gone through any similar humiliating, and ego deflating role reversals created by their asexual spouses in their spouses attempts to hide their real issues from you? I would also like to know if their asexual spouses have shown a tendency to develop close relationships with people of the opposite, or same sex as their own sexual relationships become a major issue in their marriage? I also would like to hear from any sexual partners of asexual spouses that believe the lack of intimacy and sex in their relationships have created serious problems for their own sexual ego, or related depressions and feelings of rejections? I only ask because these are issues that I have been dealing with throughout my long marriage.

I think this post is from Rainy, but I wasn't sure. I have trouble with the "quote /quote" sometimes.

Regarding the sexual desire issues: My wife is asexual and I've wondered about her two divorced sisters. Here's why. They each got divorced very soon after giving birth to the last of their children. When looking at either sister and their foirmer spouses, everyone just shook their heads and wondered how/why any of them got together. Opposites attracting barely describes it for either sister. Knowing the sisters and their attitudes about sex, I've always wondered if the whole asexual thing affected all the women of this family. And I've also wondered if everyone would have been better off, happier, etc. with sperm donors, artificial insemination and no husbands. Neither sister is looking too hard for a relationship (after 5-10 years). I don't think they were interested in anything more than kids.

With my wife, she's never displayed any interest in anything more than an occasional actor in a movie, and generally only those that have good looks and platonic interests. As far as depression, ego problems and rejection - absolutely.

[sonofzeal]

There was a semi-discussion somewhere up on the thread (before it got locked and unlocked) that intimated that the idea that simply trying to come up with a middle point of having sex is a good compromise. I.e., sexual wants it twice a week, asexual would rather once a month, so the compromise would be once a week.

If the discussion was there before, it wasn't removed. No actual content was deleted in the review, though some posts may look a bit different. If it was said before, it's said now. Just wanted to make that clear.

....but yes, a strict numeric compromise is obviously not the best way to go. Better would be to compromise on the activity, find something sensual and intimate and erotic enough for the sexual, but more enjoyable for the asexual. I mean, "sex" doesn't have to mean vaginal intercourse, y'know. Even if (if) you hold that as the pinnacle of intimacy, well, the needs that it meets can be met to some degree in other ways. That seems like a far more reasonable compromise to me.

[Sally]

There was a semi-discussion somewhere up on the thread (before it got locked and unlocked) that intimated that the idea that simply trying to come up with a middle point of having sex is a good compromise. I.e., sexual wants it twice a week, asexual would rather once a month, so the compromise would be once a week.

If the discussion was there before, it wasn't removed. No actual content was deleted in the review, though some posts may look a bit different. If it was said before, it's said now. Just wanted to make that clear.

I wasn't implying anything, Zeal, I was just trying to indicate where it was, since I didn't feel like going back to locate and copy it.

[sonofzeal]

I wasn't implying anything, Zeal, I was just trying to indicate where it was, since I didn't feel like going back to locate and copy it.

Just wanted to make clear. ;)

[AVENCakes]

By successful convincing, I took it to mean that the asexual would be willing to give it a try, because, perhaps, her "unenjoyable" bit isn't black and white, but a gray area. If there is a portion of the gray area where we could come together, that would be so much better than my current life, where any talk or action of a remotely sexual nature is off limits. But that might be because of other old conversational baggage, past history, who knows.

You might want to check out Olivier's posts about his relationship and history, it might be helpful.

Is there any way you and your wife can start from a clean slate or to find a way that you two can talk about sex? Until you two can really communicate about it, you can't really get anywhere. If there are things she can enjoy that would be satisfying for you or would make her more willing to do the things she doesn't enjoy and satisfy you, then that would be a good help, but you won't know until you two can communicate.

[n44ww]

You might want to check out Olivier's posts about his relationship and history, it might be helpful.

Is there any way you and your wife can start from a clean slate or to find a way that you two can talk about sex? Until you two can really communicate about it, you can't really get anywhere. If there are things she can enjoy that would be satisfying for you or would make her more willing to do the things she doesn't enjoy and satisfy you, then that would be a good help, but you won't know until you two can communicate.

Good thoughts. Olivier's and his situation gives me hope/inspiration, as does the emerging situation for SexualHubby.

My stumbling block is that it's been years since we've talked (not even innuendo) about sex. Yes, two years of celebacy. What I had been doing previously didn't work, so this is my attempt to try things her way. Certainly, my sex drive has dropped off, which I suspect will be a good thing if we can ease into sexual things. But, in my mind over the last two years, as I talk to myself, my thoughts have been "it's not going to happen", "it's not what she wants", "if she's interested, she'll let me know". So, I have created a bit of baggage in my own head about any possibilities. I have to be careful about messing up any possible conversations.

If I can get suggestions as to how to go about opening a dialog with an asexual woman in circumstances like these, I am all ears. I would guess that I would have to take microscopic steps and somehow remove any threat whatsoever of getting into her uncomfortable areas. Which is the trick, because she hates sexual conversations, images, things (she closes her eyes during sexual movie scenes, unless she can fast forward the DVD!).

If I had any idea of what to do, I'd do it. For me, there is a wide gulf between my desire to make a sexual conversation happen and my ability to.

Help!

[AVENCakes]

You could try writing her a letter explaining that. Letters are useful because you can take all the time you need to get your words in order and people are more likely to finish reading it, while if you try talking they might cut you off. Some peopel also have an easier time putting their words on paper. That also gives her the power to start the conversation when and how she wants.

[n44ww]

You could try writing her a letter explaining that. Letters are useful because you can take all the time you need to get your words in order and people are more likely to finish reading it, while if you try talking they might cut you off. Some peopel also have an easier time putting their words on paper. That also gives her the power to start the conversation when and how she wants.

Perfect! We have done this in the past (which I forgot until your post) and it has more success than anything else.

I think I'm supposed to give you (I'm new to this).

[AVENCakes]

Haha, you can if you want to. :) Thanks. I hope it works this time, too. Good luck.

[xsex]

I've been reading everyones post and I'm wondering why the questions keep coming back to how can I make my partner work with me on my sexual needs? I think if I've learned anything from the asexual posting their responses and explanations of how they feel about sex in general, it is that this particular activity is the last thing they want to get dragged back into. Many sexuals have expressed that their asexual partner did really try to awaken their own sexual nature in the beginning of their relationships, but after years of tears found that they were tired of doing something that clearly was not an innate activity for them. They quit trying, and the sexual partner floundered around trying to figure out why, why, why? The guilt, the confusion and repercussions are felt by both partners during these confusing years. Now we know why. The answer may have come late in our somewhat traumatized relationships, but now it is out here for all to read, comprehend and accept or reject. If you really love someone for who they are then you need to come to terms with their asexual orientation. In many respects, acceptance of this difference between two lovers can pave the way for a deeper and more spiritual relationship in the end. I have noticed that several asexuals have talked about how much it hurt them to lose a loved one over an issue they cannot control.

The operative word here is love, not sex. There is a difference and the older you get, the more you go through, the more you understand that deep, understanding love does not require sex, nor dependent upon it. I thank all who have wished me well following my brush with death. It has really opened my eyes to what I've been struggling and fighting with throughout my long marriage. I realized that the person I trusted and loved the most in life was at my side through out the whole ordeal and has been since it happened. i accept that he does not share the same sexual feelings that I've always had. I also realized that this did not change the depth of love that he has given me over the years. I only wish we both knew, or had some way to discuss all this stuff years ago. Today, I feel that the chains of constraints we have shackled ourselves with over this sexual confusion are falling away so rapidly that the rays of sunlight are bursting through our every interaction. My eyes are open, and I know what love is. It is not sex, it is giving of yourself to another in every special way that is unique to you. Love is understanding and accepting your partner for what they can, and do give you, not what they don't have to offer. We talk so much about sex, what about what real love is?

[Sally]

What a beautiful essay, xsex!

[Rainy]

So beautifully written xsex. I am striving for this same outcome.... it is a work in progress but I am determined.

[xsex]

How to share love with someone without routine sex:

1. Share your daily activities whenever you get a chance.

2. Start a family together and enjoy the wonderful and unique child or children that you two created together.

3. Take a few minutes of each day to really appreciate what your lover does for you, and only you.

4. Appreciate that your lover is trustworthy, giving, different, fun and loving you for who you are.

5. Admire their qualities, accept their limitations and hope they will do the same for you.

6. Talk about what love means to both of you without sex.

7. Share things with each-other that brings joy and pleasure to both of you.

8. Become highly introspective about the true nature of loving another being and what that means to you.

9. Only focus on what you can give and receive comfortably.

10. Do what you must to take care of your own sex needs and stop pestering your asexual spouse for it.

[daveb]

... what real love is?

Wow, that brought tears to my eyes!

[Olivier]

Indeed, more cake for xsex for a wonderfully-expressed post.

Nevertheless, at the risk of sounding like a cranky old sexual...

It's all well and good to focus on what your partner can do, and not on what they can't. It's brilliant to be accepting. It's incredibly important to be able to keep sexual incompatibility in perspective.

But...

That cuts both ways.

It just as important for the asexual partner to be truly accepting of their partner's sexuality. It's just as important for the asexual partner to understand that there are things that their partner just can't do (see my list below), and to search for ways to express their love that are chosen on the basis not only of their own preferences, but with knowledge of what's effective in making their partner feel loved, too.

(And in all of that, I'm not saying it's important to have sex, but merely to be accepting of a sexual partner's desires as valid).

Luckily for me, I have a partner who gets that

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What I can't do, sexually:

* I can't refrain from telling my wife I find her sexy. Tried during one somewhat fraught period, and failed miserably.

* I can't have sexual advances met with repulsion and not feel hurt. "No" is fine. "Ughh, yuk" hurts. It shouldn't, but it does.

* I can't accept pity sex. I find it seriously unarousing.

* I can't have a majority of my orgasms alone without feeling lonely and disconnected as a result.

So for me, personally, I was right on with xsex's list of 10 things right up until number 10. While actual pestering is just a lose-lose, I feel it's just as reasonable to lecture an asexual to just stop pestering their sexual partner for another sex-free night (which is to say: not very reasonable).

[sexualwithasexual]

It just as important for the asexual partner to be truly accepting of their partner's sexuality. It's just as important for the asexual partner to understand that there are things that their partner just can't do (see my list below), and to search for ways to express their love that are chosen on the basis not only of their own preferences, but with knowledge of what's effective in making their partner feel loved, too.

I was struck by xsex's post as well, but I think I was thinking the same things as Olivier, but I didn't know how to say it, so thanks.

I'm not there yet with my partner, but I know we are getting there. I was so worried when I realized she was not very romantic as well as not sexual, but then I realized, as long as I can be romantic, and she can accept and even get a kick out of it, I'll be okay. So I asked her if it was okay if I'm romantic even if she's not, and she laughed and said of course. I'm pretty sure she likes it when I tell her she's sexy. She'll say something funny that is very non-romantic back, and I laugh then. It's funny being in a sexual/asexual relationship. I think being in touch with your sense of humor is pretty important too. I asked her one time why sex felt so good, and she replied, "Because we're smart!" So there was a clue to the difference in our sexual experience! I would never have come up with that response. But to her, it may have really been an intellectual experiment at that time. The one way that I get through this is the fact that I admire and adore my partner. As hurt as I've felt over lack of sexual intimacy, I've always had faith in our love at a very basic, core level.