Marriage w/ Asexual wife about to end

[xsex]

FYI: The movie in which Meg Ryan preformed her fake orgasm in a Deli shop is correctly titled, "When Harry Met Sally." This movie stars Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan exploring if a man and woman can have a deep friendship without sex being involved. It's a great old movie from the "80's" which is still worth seeing if you haven't already.

The movie, "Sleepless in Seattle," starred Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan finding their true love through a late night radio show in which Hank's young son reaches out to the public to help him find the right "new Mom" for himself, and soul mate for his still grieving Dad. Both great movies to watch again!

[n44ww]

FYI: The movie in which Meg Ryan preformed her fake orgasm in a Deli shop is correctly titled, "When Harry Met Sally." This movie stars Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan exploring if a man and woman can have a deep friendship without sex being involved. It's a great old movie from the "80's" which is still worth seeing if you haven't already.

The movie, "Sleepless in Seattle," starred Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan finding their true love through a late night radio show in which Hank's young son reaches out to the public to help him find the right "new Mom" for himself, and soul mate for his still grieving Dad. Both great movies to watch again!

Thanks for straightening me out. I should have just said a Meg Ryan film and stopped there!

It seems like "When Harry Met Sally" is totally apropos for this site!

[Ender]

If there is no sexual attraction by the asexual, then that would seem to explain why the asexual:

1. prefers not to talk about sex

2. prefers not to watch movies or tv with sexually explicit content (not even a little bit of such content)

3. prefers not to wear suggestive clothing (not even the least little bit "sexual")

4. can't wait for sex to be over

5. prefers not to see the spouse naked (lights out, please)

6. prefers to clean up right away after sex

7. may not think of themselves a sexually attractive, to others or even themselves

Hrmm...as an asexual female, these aren't accurate for me at all.

#1 - not true: How else do you learn what your partner wants?

#2 - not true: I'll even watch porn, until it gets boring.

#3 - not true: I like looking "hot"/"slutty" sometimes.

#4 - not true: depends on what sex act it is

#5 - not true: lights on is good (and i can see what i'm doing)

#6 - TRUE: yeah, if i ended up with stuff on my skin...yes

#7 - not true: I think I'm attractive, I just don't always remember the "sexually" part and what that means to others

[xsex]

I think what is especially confusing to the "sexual" partner, even though they may latter realize their partner is asexual, is the whole mental and physical aspects of choosing a spouse, or partner, biased upon a strong initial physical attraction which is later followed by the creation of a emotional bond which develops later in the relationship. It is very difficult to face up to the fact that your partner or spouse never felt or saw you as a uniquely attractive and sexually exciting person that drew them towards you initially over all the other fish in the sea. Since this is generally how sexually aroused people choose one person over all the others initially, I think that many sexual partners wonder deep inside themselves what could possibly make them the "special one" within their asexual partners mind. In some respects, I could see how a sexual partner could feel that they could be easily replaced within their asexual partners life since the sexual chemistry, and bonding, is totally lacking in their relationship and is not a meaningful issue for their asexual partner.

[LadyLongLocks]

I think what is especially confusing to the "sexual" partner, even though they may latter realize their partner is asexual, is the whole mental and physical aspects of choosing a spouse, or partner, biased upon a strong initial physical attraction which is later followed by the creation of a emotional bond which develops later in the relationship. It is very difficult to face up to the fact that your partner or spouse never felt or saw you as a uniquely attractive and sexually exciting person that drew them towards you initially over all the other fish in the sea. Since this is generally how sexually aroused people choose one person over all the others initially, I think that many sexual partners wonder deep inside themselves what could possibly make them the "special one" within their asexual partners mind. In some respects, I could see how a sexual partner could feel that they could be easily replaced within their asexual partners life since the sexual chemistry, and bonding, is totally lacking in their relationship and is not a meaningful issue for their asexual partner.

Thank you, xsex, for this! I wonder about this all the time. What makes me the "special one" and what sets me apart from other girls whom my asexual BF could also hug and/or kiss?

[AVENCakes]

This is what asexuals probably have a hard time understanding. Or at least what I have a hard time understanding, that the only difference between your partner and everyone else on the planet is sexual attraction- even though you've experienced sexual attraction for quite a few other people and probably will in the future. We can be attracted to people for their looks, sure. But also to their personality, their spirit, everything they have in common, etc. If the only thing that makes you special is sexual attraction... how special can you be?

Why is it so hard to think that you must've stood out so much from the other fish that even without sexual attraction they still chose you? Why is it "what sets me apart from other girls whom my asexual BF could also hug and/or kiss" and not "I must be so special that he chose me over all the other girls he could hug and kiss"? Is your self esteem so low that you think the only thing you have to offer is sex?

[sexualwithasexual]

This is what asexuals probably have a hard time understanding. Or at least what I have a hard time understanding, that the only difference between your partner and everyone else on the planet is sexual attraction- even though you've experienced sexual attraction for quite a few other people and probably will in the future. We can be attracted to people for their looks, sure. But also to their personality, their spirit, everything they have in common, etc. If the only thing that makes you special is sexual attraction... how special can you be?

Why is it so hard to think that you must've stood out so much from the other fish that even without sexual attraction they still chose you? Why is it "what sets me apart from other girls whom my asexual BF could also hug and/or kiss" and not "I must be so special that he chose me over all the other girls he could hug and kiss"? Is your self esteem so low that you think the only thing you have to offer is sex?

This last part. I experienced both. I did feel at first, that I'd almost been duped. I felt confused. I was attracted to my partner, but she wasn't really? Well, I think that she was. She was drawn to me. Uniquely me. And I think she figured it must include being sexually attracted, as we did have sex, and she seemingly enjoyed it. So yeah, the confusion REALLY sets in for a sexual, when trying to sort out where we are now. I thought, "So, you fell in love with me, we had wonderful sex, it was seemingly mutual, but now you don't want me sexually, but you say you are still in love with me?" It's taken posting here and sorting it out with the help of avenites here, especially Sally, and RD to figure this thing out. Sally is an asexual who went through perhaps a similar evolution as my partner in terms of self awareness. I think this may be true of other older asexuals that have been in relationships with sexuals. Perhaps they always knew somewhere inside who they were, but figuring they would come around, or should come around sexually. At least this is what I've gathered from reading here on AVEN. This helped me realize why my partner would "want" sex initially, but not once she started realizing what she really wants.

So then I did start to have the realization that RD is referring to. Perhaps there's something else super compelling about me! Wow, that's kinda cool. What is it? Well, asking her led to more confusion at first, as the list seemed pretty mundane. But here's the thing. I finally realized that those mundane things, wrapped up somehow with my personality, was just as alluring as any sexual attractor that I might use in gauging initial attraction to someone. So I feel better now. I feel fully loved. Maybe not fully sexually loved, but just as fully loved as I ever thought imaginable. The change has not taken place in my partner. It's my perception of being loved that has adjusted. I think on a subtle level it's changing our relationship. She's more trusting that I don't think there's something wrong with her and I'm able to trust that she really does love me as deeply as she would if she were making wild, erotic love to me. That's taken some time to get to though. And I'm still curious about my own sex drive. Lately I've actually been masturbating more, and not feeling empty afterwards. Just feeling like I did before I met my current partner. Someone who didn't have a sexual partner. Taking it one day at a time....

[LadyLongLocks]

This is what asexuals probably have a hard time understanding. Or at least what I have a hard time understanding, that the only difference between your partner and everyone else on the planet is sexual attraction- even though you've experienced sexual attraction for quite a few other people and probably will in the future. We can be attracted to people for their looks, sure. But also to their personality, their spirit, everything they have in common, etc. If the only thing that makes you special is sexual attraction... how special can you be?

Why is it so hard to think that you must've stood out so much from the other fish that even without sexual attraction they still chose you? Why is it "what sets me apart from other girls whom my asexual BF could also hug and/or kiss" and not "I must be so special that he chose me over all the other girls he could hug and kiss"? Is your self esteem so low that you think the only thing you have to offer is sex?

No, I do not think that all I have to offer is sex! Maybe my self esteem is that low. My last relationship was a husband who was a sex addict and I was devastated when I discovered him making dates with women via online dating sites. Maybe I should just forget about relationships period.

[n44ww]

This is what asexuals probably have a hard time understanding. Or at least what I have a hard time understanding, that the only difference between your partner and everyone else on the planet is sexual attraction- even though you've experienced sexual attraction for quite a few other people and probably will in the future. We can be attracted to people for their looks, sure. But also to their personality, their spirit, everything they have in common, etc. If the only thing that makes you special is sexual attraction... how special can you be?

Why is it so hard to think that you must've stood out so much from the other fish that even without sexual attraction they still chose you? Why is it "what sets me apart from other girls whom my asexual BF could also hug and/or kiss" and not "I must be so special that he chose me over all the other girls he could hug and kiss"? Is your self esteem so low that you think the only thing you have to offer is sex?

No, I do not think that all I have to offer is sex! Maybe my self esteem is that low. My last relationship was a husband who was a sex addict and I was devastated when I discovered him making dates with women via online dating sites. Maybe I should just forget about relationships period.

I am attracted to all of my friends for their looks, personality, spirit and everything we have in common. Which includes my wife - she is also my friend. But everyone else on the planet is not my friend.

What separates my wife from all of my other friends? Our sexual relationship. However, because she is asexual, then she really isn't any different from any of my other friends. Although, even though I don't want it, I probably have a better chance of sexual relations with a perfect stranger than I do with my wife. So the relationship is "upside down", so to speak.

[AVENCakes]

Is it possible that you're an aromantic, n44ww? I'm just asking because you don't sound that romantically attracted to your wife- which would set her apart from your friends outside of sex.

[Sally]

My ex-partner has maintained (ever since I told him about my ace-ness) that he can't understand the concept of romance without sex. I doubt if he's the only sexual who feels that way. To those sexuals, it would be like going halfway to a destination and then just stopping. They don't see any reason to do it.

[xsex]

R.Draconian;

There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticize others by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide their true intent to mock another's thoughts or feelings. You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was all they had that made them special? Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response. The questions they, and I, have asked are quite legitimate and the fact that you don't fully comprehend the nature of what is being asked only indicates to me that you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex usually adds to any good relationship.

[xsex]

R.Draconian;

There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticize others by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide their true intent to mock another's thoughts or feelings. You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was all they had that made them special? Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response. The questions they, and I, have asked are quite legitimate and the fact that you don't fully comprehend the nature of what is being asked only indicates to me that you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex usually adds to any good relationship.

[xsex]

R.Draconian;

There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticize others by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide their true intent to mock another's thoughts or feelings. You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was all they had that made them special? Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response. The questions they, and I, have asked are quite legitimate and the fact that you don't fully comprehend the nature of what is being asked only indicates to me that you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex usually adds to any good relationship.

[xsex]

R.Draconian;

There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticize others by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide their true intent to mock another's thoughts or feelings. You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was all they had that made them special? Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response. The questions they, and I, have asked are quite legitimate and the fact that you don't fully comprehend the nature of what is being asked only indicates to me that you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex usually adds to any good relationship.

[xsex]

R.Draconian; There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticizeothers by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide behind their blatent mockery of others.. You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was what they felt made them special? Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response. The questions they and I have asked are quite legitimate and the fact that you don't fully comprehend the nature of what is being asked only indicates to me that you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex can bring into any good relationship.

[xsex]

R.Draconian; There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticizeothers by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide behind their blatent mockery of others.. You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was what they felt made them special? Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response. The questions they and I have asked are quite legitimate and the fact that you don't fully comprehend the nature of what is being asked only indicates to me that you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex can bring into any good relationship.

[AVENCakes]

There is one thing which I can barely tolerate when engaging in a serious thread such as this one, and that is having to read the words and thoughts of someone who thinks their posts are so clever and intelligent that they are entitled to criticizeothers by manipulating their statements in a manner which allows them to hide behind their blatent mockery of others.

I was not mocking anyone. I was expressing concern that someone could really think that they aren't special just because their partner isn't sexually attracted to them- when the reality is more likely that they're so incredibly special to their partner that their partner would choose them over the other 6.7 billion people on the planet.

You responded to those expressing concern over the missing physical attraction in their unusual relationships to asexuals by saying that you hope they have something more to offer their partners than just sex, or if that was what they felt made them special?

Actually, I responded to it asking if they think that's all they have to offer- because that simply isn't the case, and even in a relationship with a sexual they should realize that they're wonderful people who have many things to offer anyone, not just sex.

Several people went on the defense immediately upon reading your response.

LadyLongLocks seems to be the only one who went on the defense, so that's hardly "several", I don't see how n44ww did- they were quite nice in explaining their feelings on the matter. It didn't sound defensive, it sounded like it was contributing to this thread. And he did so without having to openly attack anyone as you did.

you have much to learn about the biological, sensual and bonding nature that sex can bring into any good relationship.

I have a wonderful relationship with my partner, but sex would not bring anything into our relationship. It would be an awkward, unpleasant, painful experience for both of us. Sex can bring those things into a relationship in which two people both want sex. In a relationship where one or more of the people don't want it, though, it can destroy more than it brings.

[Galen]

Is it possible that you're an aromantic, n44ww? I'm just asking because you don't sound that romantically attracted to your wife- which would set her apart from your friends outside of sex.

Why would you say he is "aromantic", I believe I feel similar to him. We date than marry good friends because we are romantically (sexually) attracted to them. I had/have friends closer than my wife, most of my male friends, I didn't court than marry them.

I guess I really don't get the Romance without Sex part. For me there was suppose to be a lot of sexual bonding also I felt before the latter companionship. If all I needed was companionship than one of my male friends would of been a lot easier to get along with all these years. Also, if all I need was SEX than it would be a lot more frequent and satisfying with complete strangers all these years.

Now, I am locked into a relationship with a dysfunctional sexual relationship that I have invested 25years into. The bonds are made up of more than just sex, though even our fights over sex add to our collected experiences we share. How do you describe color to a blind person?

Sally is correct, I really don't understand long term romance without sexual attraction. Perhaps I am missing a lot of sounds by seeing the colors?

[AVENCakes]

There's a difference between romantic and sexual attraction- but I know that a lot of sexuals can't experience romantic without sexual (or experience both at once, but a lot of people on AVEN say that they experience sexual attraction first and then romantic attraction develops)- so I'm not suggesting that you should only feel them separately by any stretch or that it's "wrong" to not understand or want romance without sex. That's completely fine. There are also some sexuals on here that have reported being romantically attracted to someone, but later realized they weren't sexually attracted to them as well, so some people can experience it differently, I try to avoid making general statments about anything because of that.

n44ww also asked what the point of marriage was without sex, which was mostly what prompted the question as well as what they just said. Obviously I could be missing a big part of sexual point of view- but I'd imagine you could still see the difference in how you feel about your romantic partner to how you'd feel about a fuck buddy enough to know what the difference between friendship and sexless marriage was.

[n44ww]

Is it possible that you're an aromantic, n44ww? I'm just asking because you don't sound that romantically attracted to your wife- which would set her apart from your friends outside of sex.

Why would you say he is "aromantic", I believe I feel similar to him. We date than marry good friends because we are romantically (sexually) attracted to them. I had/have friends closer than my wife, most of my male friends, I didn't court than marry them.

I guess I really don't get the Romance without Sex part. For me there was suppose to be a lot of sexual bonding also I felt before the latter companionship. If all I needed was companionship than one of my male friends would of been a lot easier to get along with all these years. Also, if all I need was SEX than it would be a lot more frequent and satisfying with complete strangers all these years.

Now, I am locked into a relationship with a dysfunctional sexual relationship that I have invested 25years into. The bonds are made up of more than just sex, though even our fights over sex add to our collected experiences we share. How do you describe color to a blind person?

Sally is correct, I really don't understand long term romance without sexual attraction. Perhaps I am missing a lot of sounds by seeing the colors?

Romance is an interesting word. I don't romance any of my friends, but do romance my wife. So I guess romance is another thing that belongs in a committed relationship - together with sex. However, the motivation is no longer sexual, as that is pointless with my asexual wife. I do things for her that she doesn't like to do, because I enjoy doing them for her and she appreciates that I am doing those things. Romance in my sexual/asexual relationship is much more subdued, because there is no escalation to a sexual level. I (and perhaps Galen) don't see the reason to expend the kinds of romantic energy typically associated with escalation to a sexual level when you know it isn't going to happen. I spend time on the things that are going to make a difference, knowing that sex is simply not on the table.

One thing I can't seem to grasp is a "fuck buddy." Like a prostitute? No feeling whatsoever, just a pure sexual connection? If so, that would provide a quick thrill, but an empty feeling. That would be as unsatisfying as a sexual/asexual relationship. Which do I want - feelings with no sex or sex with no feelings. NEITHER!

[Galen]

I'm sorry to say, I am a romantic at heart but not action. Maybe, because it does not lead to what I desire. Really though after being married so long I know what she likes and dislikes, many things considered romantic aren't to her. I get more "romantic" points with her by cleaning her horses stalls with her than I do taking her to a movie. Romance to me is an ideal made up in books and movies. I enjoy bringing her flowers but a surprise visit to work with the kids is even better. Besides, when your married there is a downside to flowers etc.. that cost money, so they become a special occasional item.

But being married to an Asexual means that special days e.g. valentines day, anniversaries no longer have an expectation of a "happy ending". Not knowing why for 20 years has led to a lot of grief.

As far as prostitutes, I belief there are many different types of services, some are just "meat" which many men do not seem to appreciate, but some do. Others work hard at acting like your favorite Girl Friend, which many men seem to enjoy. So is the facade of having sex with a professional pretending that your the greatest man alive and that probably enjoys sex sound enticing? For someone that has never had a woman act that way it does. Would the reality live up to the idea probably not.

There are no options, we love our partners and can't "cheat" on them even if only in body, and feeling cheated out of something we thought would be taken for granted. To actually pursue another to obtain another meaningful relationship that would include sex is impossible without sacrificing too much. Trying to reobtain the closeness and companionship I enjoy now is not worth any small gains in sex. In addition to the risk of harm to my kids. Now knowing about asexuality at least removes on the surface the feelings of rejection etc... and in time deeper.

[AVENCakes]

One thing I can't seem to grasp is a "fuck buddy." Like a prostitute? No feeling whatsoever, just a pure sexual connection? If so, that would provide a quick thrill, but an empty feeling. That would be as unsatisfying as a sexual/asexual relationship. Which do I want - feelings with no sex or sex with no feelings. NEITHER!

A fuckbuddy is a friend, or buddy, that you have sex with, or fuck. It's "no strings attached" sex between two people who aren't attached and sleep with each other because they both enjoy the sex, but have no interest in making it a romantic relationship. If you'd prefer "Friends With Benefits", that might be more common. They're not a romantic partner, just a sexual partner, but you have a friendship so it's not like sex with a complete stranger.

My exact words were "Obviously I could be missing a big part of sexual point of view- but I'd imagine you could still see the difference in how you feel about your romantic partner to how you'd feel about a fuck buddy enough to know what the difference between friendship and sexless marriage was." It was for the sake of comparison, not a suggestion. I will never suggest anyone cheat on their partner. Responsible non-monogamy that your partner is okay with might be something to look into if you're comfortable with it, but cheating is not.

[Ender]

It boggles my mind, Star, about how you keep being misunderstood in this thread.

Sexuals engage in sexual activity without romantic attraction frequently. I was also thinking about fuck buddies as an example of circumstances where sexuals engage in sexual behavior in absense of romance and romantic feelings.

Also, sexuals find some sexual acts distasteful and refuse to engage in them. They will withhold some forms of sexual pleasure from their partners in the presense of romantic attraction (BDSM, anal sex, role playing, etc). Indeed, if the majority of people think these things are 'kinky' or 'disgusting' then no one really blames the partner for not wishing to engage in them. That partner is validated, and no one questions if they REALLY have romantic feelings.

My point is that these sorts of qualities are not limited to asexuals and assigning them only to us is frustrating, annoying, and disingenuous.

[sexualwithasexual]

My point is that these sorts of qualities are not limited to asexuals and assigning them only to us is frustrating, annoying, and disingenuous.

I have understood and appreciated everything Star has posted. Really, really appreciated. I think you are very clear, to the point, intelligent and kind.

I have a feeling that the sexuals that have said they don't understand fuck buddies, are saying that they don't know if they could actually go through with it, not that they don't get it as a concept. I'm not sure sexuals here are trying to lump asexuals together either. Having a place to come to sort out some of our differences is super helpful, and we only have words to use, so perhaps it seems like there are generalizations. But I would guess most everyone here understands there is a spectrum, not a black/white situation. It's helpful sometimes to separate things out to get at how we are all actually different. Most of my problems in my relationship have stemmed from me erroneously thinking my partner must be just like me when it come to desires for sex and romance.

After reading most of this thread, last night I realized my partner is probably not only asexual but pretty aromantic as well. She doesn't say "I love you" and she does not do anything romantic. Like what Galen described, favors that are pretty unromantic in nature win more gratitude than anything mushy gushy. My partner also thinks of money if I do something too extravagant. So I asked her last night about it. She seemed pretty upset. First let me say she agreed that she is not romantic. I was surprised that I was really upset by that. I mean, I already knew in a way, but it made me cry. It's weird. Nothing's different, we didn't have a disagreement, but I cried. Then I came back to her and asked her if it was okay if I was romantic. She made her sweet smile and said that of course it was and I asked why she got upset about the question and she said she didn't want me to be disappointed knowing that. So AVEN is a mixed bag. She really fears it in a way. But I assured her that is it helping.

[n44ww]

My exact words were "Obviously I could be missing a big part of sexual point of view- but I'd imagine you could still see the difference in how you feel about your romantic partner to how you'd feel about a fuck buddy enough to know what the difference between friendship and sexless marriage was."

OK, now I get what a fuck buddy is - thanks. However, I think I'd feel about the same about a fuck buddy (sex, no feelings)and an asexual wife (feelings, no sex). So I still have a hard time telling the difference between friendship and a sexless marriage. For me, the example doesn't work.

[n44ww]

Also, sexuals find some sexual acts distasteful and refuse to engage in them. They will withhold some forms of sexual pleasure from their partners in the presense of romantic attraction (BDSM, anal sex, role playing, etc). Indeed, if the majority of people think these things are 'kinky' or 'disgusting' then no one really blames the partner for not wishing to engage in them. That partner is validated, and no one questions if they REALLY have romantic feelings.

My point is that these sorts of qualities are not limited to asexuals and assigning them only to us is frustrating, annoying, and disingenuous.

Regardless, there is still some sex, even if it is only "plain" and not "spicy."

[AVENCakes]

After reading most of this thread, last night I realized my partner is probably not only asexual but pretty aromantic as well. She doesn't say "I love you" and she does not do anything romantic. Like what Galen described, favors that are pretty unromantic in nature win more gratitude than anything mushy gushy. My partner also thinks of money if I do something too extravagant. So I asked her last night about it. She seemed pretty upset. First let me say she agreed that she is not romantic. I was surprised that I was really upset by that. I mean, I already knew in a way, but it made me cry. It's weird. Nothing's different, we didn't have a disagreement, but I cried. Then I came back to her and asked her if it was okay if I was romantic. She made her sweet smile and said that of course it was and I asked why she got upset about the question and she said she didn't want me to be disappointed knowing that. So AVEN is a mixed bag. She really fears it in a way. But I assured her that is it helping.

Romantic is a really weird orientation when you consider the term. I have a very close, aromantic friend who's a "hopeless romantic", she loves romantic gushy stuff in movies and all that but she has no interest in dating and isn't romantically attracted to them. Then there are romantics who are very "unromantic", they aren't into the whole valentine's day and chocolates but they still love their partner and do those "unromantic" favors that are actually meaningful to them.

My partner and I don't do romantic things, we've never been on a date, we don't do the mushy stuff- but we still do a lot of things that make it clear that we love each other even though they're completely mundane.

It's interesting that your partner fears AVEN, is she still worried that looking on it will make you want to leave her? I think you mentioned that was a concern of hers.

It boggles my mind, Star, about how you keep being misunderstood in this thread.

It happens a lot online, actually, I'm pretty used to it. ^^;

Also, sexuals find some sexual acts distasteful and refuse to engage in them. They will withhold some forms of sexual pleasure from their partners in the presense of romantic attraction (BDSM, anal sex, role playing, etc). Indeed, if the majority of people think these things are 'kinky' or 'disgusting' then no one really blames the partner for not wishing to engage in them. That partner is validated, and no one questions if they REALLY have romantic feelings.

I think that's a good analogy, I've seen communities where kinks are very common and it is just as much of a need for that person as sex is for a kinkless sexual. The only difference is that 99% of the population can sympathize with the need for sex, most people can't sympathize for the needs that a kink can be and think it's pretty weird.

Regardless, there is still some sex, even if it is only "plain" and not "spicy."

For many people with kinks, "plain" sex is about as fulfilling as no sex is for a sexual person without kinks. It can be extremely confusing at hurtful to have a partner who refuses to understand or fulfill your needs and refuses to let you go elsewhere for them regardless of what those needs are. Saying that it's not the same because "there still is some sex" is just making it seem like their sexual needs are less valid than your sexual needs.

[Elley]

You sound like my husband, although we have been married far shorter than you. If she is anything like me then asking her to 'compromise' by having sex is not a good idea. Think of something that makes you feel disgusting, used and just plain dirty, and how you would feel if she asked you to do it repeatedly. That may be how she feels everytime you ask her to 'put out' I know thats how it is for me, but I still do it for my husband out of guilt and it makes me miserable, it also makes me resent him. I think that she may still love you (I really can't say since I'm not her) but maybe its not the same 'type' of love that you use or expect, we all love in different ways.

Good luck!

[Ender]

Also, sexuals find some sexual acts distasteful and refuse to engage in them. They will withhold some forms of sexual pleasure from their partners in the presense of romantic attraction (BDSM, anal sex, role playing, etc). Indeed, if the majority of people think these things are 'kinky' or 'disgusting' then no one really blames the partner for not wishing to engage in them. That partner is validated, and no one questions if they REALLY have romantic feelings.

My point is that these sorts of qualities are not limited to asexuals and assigning them only to us is frustrating, annoying, and disingenuous.

Regardless, there is still some sex, even if it is only "plain" and not "spicy."

That's odd. I wrote an entire post asking sexuals if a guy would be happy with just receiving oral and not penetrative sex (because oral sex can be fun, penetration hurts). The concensus was that very few guys would be satisfied with that arrangement. So...even if there is some sex and romantic feelings, most would not be satisfied. Not sure how that is any different than a sexual that doesn't want to perform kinky sex.