Is anybody out there?

[Pamcakes]

Hello.

My name is Pamcakes, and I am brand new to this website. I Googled 'support for partners of asexual people' and it brought me here. I really hope that taking this step will help me find people in similar situations to me.

It's the isolation that's the worst. I can't talk to any of my friends without feeling like I'm betraying the man that I love.

I am 25 and I have been with the love of my life since I was 19. He is a warm, kind, romantic, generous, affectionate, loving man and my best friend, and we want to get married as soon as we can afford it. He does not and has never had anything resembling a sex drive and our relationship is mostly sexless. We make love perhaps 6 times a year - rarely enough that, when we do, it's physically painful for me. I have tried costumes, I have tried fantasy scenarios, I have tried offering him the option of introducing a third party (really not something I wanted, but to get a rise from him I could compromise), I have tried losing weight, I have tried gaining weight, I have tried cutting, growing and colouring my hair, I am always warm and receptive and happy to see him, I always wear his favourite perfume and make sure I am groomed for him, I am not domineering or over-critical and I have been saintly patient. Every night, when he walks in the door, I drop what I'm doing to run downstairs and greet him with a hug, take his bag, help him off with his jacket, ask him about his day and sit him down with a beer.

I have concluded after several years that it really isn't me, it's him; I suspect he is asexual, though he won't admit it himself. I have suggested he see a doctor and he won't. I have stressed what a big issue it is for me to lie down every night next to someone I adore who has no sexual interest in me, and have him kiss and hold me and then roll away to sleep. I am very highly sexed. It makes me deeply unhappy, but I figure, for the love of my life, I can live without it. But it's really, really hard, and it effects my self-image and it effects my mood and it effects my ability to relate in a loving manner, as I need that physical connection. I have tried everything I can think of from warm, open communication to fuzzy handcuffs over the time we've been together, and I don't know what to do.

He recognises it's a problem for me, but he never wants to talk about it. I've been trying to fix it for years now, literally years, but he tries to shush me the moment I try to talk to him about it, and promises to fix it and then does nothing differently. I appreciate that we can't make love every night the way I'd like, but we're not even talking once a month. He won't even meet me in the middle, and it's not fair. He doesn't offer any solutions and rejects all suggested alternatives.

It's damaging me. I spend nights lying awake beside him, crying from the loneliness and frustration. I can no longer watch lovescenes in movies without wanting to cry, and when friends make bawdy jokes in my presence it makes me want to curl into a ball. I have hesitantly proposed that I be allowed to seek physical companionship outside the relationship and he shot me down instantly, making it clear that, if I wanted to sleep with someone else then I would have to be unfaithful to him, and he would not tolerate that; he would leave me, instantly. He is not even willing for me to use marital aids to let off steam. I am desperately lonely, both for physical intimacy and also just for base sex.

I just love him so much. Possibly more than he deserves, definitely more than I should. I never really loved anyone my whole life until him. Even just the idea of breaking up makes me start to cry.

It's not like I'm ugly or unglamourous; I'm 5,9", a size 8 - 10, a stylish dresser with a sharp haircut, and very pretty. I used to model. Whenever I go out dancing, I get hit on. Why can't I make him want me?

Please help. Please let me know I'm not alone.

Living like this is breaking my heart.

P.

[LadyLongLocks]

I have been in a long distance relationship with a kind, caring, romantic man for almost 2 years now and I could have written your post, and I believe that some other sexuals would say many of the same things too. My best suggestion is to keep trying to work on the communication, as I am doing.

Now this is my opinion and I'm not saying it in any way to hurt you, but you say you are highly sexed and this lack of physical connection is making you deeply unhappy. Life is too short to settle and be unhappy. Before you marry, ask yourself these two questions: 1. Is this a great friendship between the two of us? 2. Are both our needs being met?

I wish the best for you!

[eSKay]

I, too, could've written your post, Pamcakes. I wish I had more in the way of suggestions or advice to offer you, but I figured the least I could do was let you know that you aren't alone.

For the first time ever, I cried over a love scene on tv last night -- something I absolutely NEVER imagined my relationship would come to. I put a post on here a few days ago, "fiance just spelled it out" and since then the growing consensus seems to be the same. Everyone I talk to says ending the relationship is the right move, but this man was and still is the love of my life, and in terms of my own personal beliefs, someone that it would simply be wrong to give up on. That being said, it is all in great conflict with my beliefs of love and a marriage relationship, bond, etc., and I must be honest with myself in knowing that I would undoubtedly be unhappy in a marriage that didn't fulfill those beliefs. To me, marriage is for life. That would translate to unhappiness for life, and while I am guilt-ridden to feel that I am ending an engagement "over sex", ending a marriage is just out of the question.

I wish you the best in your situation.

[< retired >]

Why can't I make him want me?

You can't, any more than you can get him to fly just by gentle encouragement and leaving bird feathers and glue around the house.

What's more alarming is his apparent willingness to let you suffer. A more evolved human being would be doing everything in his power to satisfy you, or at least address your concerns.

You can spend a lot of time and energy trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, but the peg may never really fit correctly. How much of a misfit are you willing to put up with?

Good luck! :)

[Pamcakes]

LadyLongLocks, eSKay and ChooseYourBattles, thank you for your replies. It's really good just to be able to express myself in an anonymous way - my beau has often emphasised his belief that discussing relationship problems with an opposite-gendered friend (and, due to me being a bit of a tomboy, all my close friends I'd feel able to talk to are male) is tantamount to emotional infidelity. It's been really awkward recently, as a fairly new male friend caught a glib, throwaway comment I made, has noticed something wrong and has drawn a line between the two and been asking awkward questions.

I've fobbed him off as best I can, but I can tell he's not entirely mollified. I also suspect he has a bit of a "thing" for me, so that makes me even more nervous and uncomfortable about the situation. :redface:

I don't want to be with anyone else; I hardly look at other men. I want him, and no-one else would really do. I adore him, and I'd do just about anything for him. I once sprinted six km without a rest to reach him when he thought he was having a heart attack (it turned out to just be indigestion - go ahead and laugh, it's funny ;) ) and collapsed (in shuddering, dehydrated Shock) on his doorstep. I've given up a great deal to be with him, including moving interstate twice; once from my hometown to a City I didn't know, but found very exciting, because he wanted to work in the Big City (we come from a small City on the Coast), and then again a couple of years later when he decided to apply for a transfer to a different City - when I really wasn't ready to move, had just put down roots and formed a solid group of good friends, liked the City we were in and didn't like the one he wanted to move to at all, even to visit. We've been here a few months now, and it really sucks having to start over again, and I miss my friends and I hate our new house, but I keep a positive outlook; I don't mind making the sacrifice if it'll make him happy.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm the only one who ever gives in this relationship, and he just takes all the time, because that's not true at all. My partner is such a wonderful person. He supported me financially through several years of illness, when I couldn't work, and he continues to support me now that I'm recovered, while I try to find a job again. He makes me breakfast every weekend, knows just what to do to soothe me when I'm upset, and waits on me hand and foot when I'm ill. I know that he is deeply in love with me and that there is a physical connection (he loves to touch me and he still gets jealous and protective - though not unpleasantly so - if he thinks another man fancies me), he just seems to feel no pressing need to indulge it. The sex we do have every couple of months or so he really enjoys, but that's enough for him; he doesn't feel the need to make love any more often than that. I really, really do, and I have such a hard time accepting the idea that he enjoys the lovemaking we occasionally have but has no interest in seeking it out more frequently. Is he really asexual, or just sort of lazy? <_<

P.

[Guest back_slash123]

hmm....

he seems asexual

but also a bit scared, most asexuals will compromise on this issue(some won't)

but I think once a month isnt asking to much.

have you asked him why he doesn't want to meet you half way on this?

sorry if I'm being too frank with this

[zoidberger]

From what you describe, I think your boyfriend/fiance is either asexual or has a very low sex drive. I think your efforts to turn him on have been thwarted because that just doesn't interest him. I think you're right to assume that it's him and not you. Marriage isn't going to make things different. I personally think you should get to the bottom of the problem before committing yourself to a relationship that may be unfulfilling. Since sex is important to you, you'll have to figure out if there's some middle ground, otherwise things probably won't change.

There are also asexuals here that do enjoy sex, but just don't feel that NEED... so the fact that he enjoys sex when you have it doesn't necessarily mean he's just lazy.

[Pamcakes]

back_slash123, I desperately would love to discuss it with him, and have always approached it in a sensitive and non-judgemental way, but he won't speak to me. This is the part I have some private anger issues about (though I am careful not to allow this to affect our interactions), because I can't help but feel that this it's unfair of him to lock me out so completely. There is a large part of my brain that reasons, after five years of cohabitation and unbroken devotion, that the least he owes me is to speak with me about it.

I would do almost anything for him, and I want to understand what he requires - or doesn't - and how to reconcile his needs with my own and find a solution that will make us both happy, but his indifference to my distress and refusal to even discuss the issue with me is really starting to rub me as willfully cruel and deeply unfair.

I want to make this work, but I do feel that he is asking too much in expecting me to go with a major need of mine unfulfilled without a right to ever know why. Or is this just me being insensitive and demanding, asexuals? Please, I want to understand.

zoidberger, I am already committed. To us, a marriage license is nothing more than a scrap of paper, as we have been living together in a permanent relationship for the last four years and consider ourselves, to all practical intents and purposes, to already be married in all but name. As far as legal complications go, due to de facto laws in Australia, if we were to split up now it would be no less complicated, for division of assets and other such financial matters, than a formal divorce. Not that I give a tinker's toot for the financial side - I just love him. He's the one I want, and, while I am quite comfortable with the idea of being single, if I can't have him, I don't want anyone else. I have no desire to force him to be someone he's not, or do things he doesn't want to, but I am beginning to wonder why it's always me who has to compromise and why he can't at least meet me halfway.

Thanks for the feedback.

P.

[Guest back_slash123]

i dont think you are being demanding

hes not even giving you a reason.

compromise requires 2 people to give a little to gain a little in return.

if its just you doing what he wants thats not compromise

[loving_partner]

back_slash123, I desperately would love to discuss it with him, and have always approached it in a sensitive and non-judgemental way, but he won't speak to me. This is the part I have some private anger issues about (though I am careful not to allow this to affect our interactions), because I can't help but feel that this it's unfair of him to lock me out so completely. There is a large part of my brain that reasons, after five years of cohabitation and unbroken devotion, that the least he owes me is to speak with me about it.

I would do almost anything for him, and I want to understand what he requires - or doesn't - and how to reconcile his needs with my own and find a solution that will make us both happy, but his indifference to my distress and refusal to even discuss the issue with me is really starting to rub me as willfully cruel and deeply unfair.

I want to make this work, but I do feel that he is asking too much in expecting me to go with a major need of mine unfulfilled without a right to ever know why. Or is this just me being insensitive and demanding, asexuals? Please, I want to understand.

I'm in a similar place as well. I love my wife intensely, she loves me just as much and we're best friends even after 17 years together. There has to be a compromise - some solution that doesn't involve us not being together. That wouldn't make either of us happy. I'm trying to talk, but it's hard for her. She's doesn't self-identify as asexual, even though she admits to having zero drive, no need for sex and at least sometimes being actively repulsed. She says that she feels "broken", and it's obvious that talking about it is painful.

I don't have a magic solution. All I can suggest is to try and keep talking. Pick your time, approach when he's most receptive, and take it slowly. Build a dialog from small conversations - keep moving forward and don't go over the same things again and again. When he rejects you sexually, put aside your own hurt and talk to him while he's reacting - ask about how he feels, what he's thinking and what that means to him. Be willing to take a break to let him absorb and think over new revelations, but don't stall out. Be patient, but be clear about how you feel. Suggest professional counselling.

I wish you the best. Stick around, and we can all share how it works out for each of us.

[Pamcakes]

So.

A breakthrough.

Maybe.

Last night I got out of bed at midnight. I was in a bad place. I couldn't sleep. Lying next to him, looking at the back of his head and just thinking how bloody unfair it is, and how abandoned I feel and then I got angry because I'm pretty sure I deserve better and then I got sad again because I fantasised about leaving and I bloody hate the idea. When he questioned my rising, sounding scared, I, exhausted and miserable and a little bitter, stepped out of my normal gentle character and snapped, a little; I told him I was getting up because I just couldn't stand to lie there next to him, anymore, and that it was too painful (harsh, I know, but put yourself in my shoes - I'm a human being and I can only stretch so far). I came upstairs and went online, desperately looking for something to distract me. My friend, Simon, was up, spotted I was on the 'tilting towards a little unhinged' end of Extremely Distressed and offered to come get me and take me out for hot chocolate and chats and hugs and stay out with me for as long as necessary. In the middle of the night. He lives about three quarters of an hour's drive away. Simon, incidentally, is awesome.

So, I went down to the bedroom to get some clothes (I was in my pyjamas, at this point) and he completely freaked out. I told him I was just going out to clear my head, but he totally lost the plot and started crying. Suddenly, now he wanted to talk. So I told Simon to hold his horses, tried to put aside my anger and I said to him, "Okay, let's talk."

Which segued into crying, and me saying all the awful, lonely things I've been feeling; "Why won't you talk to me? I've felt so abandoned. How is this fair? I can deal with anything, if you'll just be straight with me, but I can't cope with being pushed away everytime I try to get you to communicate with me.", that sort of thing. Then he cried a bit and confessed that he does still fancy the pants off me, he just never feels like he has the physical energy - he swore up and down that it wasn't a lack of interest and that he's fairly sure he's not asexual - and I told him if that is genuinely his problem and he genuinely wants to fix it, and isn't giving me just another excuse, then he'll go to the doctor. And that I'm not making his appointment for him; he has to make it happen himself.

He said, "I don't want you to leave me. I have nightmares about it." I said, "The last thing I want in the world is to leave you, but I will, if you shut me out like you have been. And if this turns out to be a permanent issue, then you're going to need to be a lot more flexible with what I am allowed than you have been."

Then we made love. I told him I didn't want him to do anything he didn't really want, but he was rather insistent. I am not allowing myself to get too excited; we'll see if it sticks. I'm not sold. He's pulled something similar a couple of times before. I didn't sleep much either, even after talking and sex. It was good for him, but a little joyless on my end as I was scared to read too much into it. I was, in fact, so tense that we had to, er, be creative because we couldn't do the full thing. If that makes sense, and isn't TMI (sorry if it is). I was awake for a long time after that.

Today, I'm just bone tired, body and soul. I'd like to be hopeful, but I don't know if I even have that left, anymore. I've just been going through this for so long.

I'm almost scared to hope.

P.

[Anders]

Simon was probably like "Ok wut?" about the ordeal, haha

But hopefully what happened leads somewhere. Good luck! :)

[LadyLongLocks]

Pamcakes, that sounds very good! Gosh, what I would give to be able to say "we made love."

I hope this continues for you! Keep us posted.

[Pamcakes]

I'm really hoping so, LLL and Anders.

Fingers crossed. :-)

P.

[< retired >]

...we'll see if it sticks.

It won't. A dog can pretend to be a cat for a few days but it's still a dog. Back in my day, I tortured enough lovely hypersexual women to know about this.

An argument for staying in the relationship is the old 'devil we know vs. devil we don't' concept, but it's not necessarily a good argument. It's true that you don't want to replace a warm and loving dudmuffin with a psychopathic studmuffin, but you're going to be stuck wondering whether there isn't a warm and loving studmuffin out there just waiting for you. Such is the burden you choose to bear. 8)

[loving_partner]

So, I went down to the bedroom to get some clothes (I was in my pyjamas, at this point) and he completely freaked out. I told him I was just going out to clear my head, but he totally lost the plot and started crying. Suddenly, now he wanted to talk. So I told Simon to hold his horses, tried to put aside my anger and I said to him, "Okay, let's talk."

Which segued into crying, and me saying all the awful, lonely things I've been feeling; "Why won't you talk to me? I've felt so abandoned. How is this fair? I can deal with anything, if you'll just be straight with me, but I can't cope with being pushed away everytime I try to get you to communicate with me.", that sort of thing. Then he cried a bit and confessed that he does still fancy the pants off me, he just never feels like he has the physical energy - he swore up and down that it wasn't a lack of interest and that he's fairly sure he's not asexual - and I told him if that is genuinely his problem and he genuinely wants to fix it, and isn't giving me just another excuse, then he'll go to the doctor. And that I'm not making his appointment for him; he has to make it happen himself.

He said, "I don't want you to leave me. I have nightmares about it." I said, "The last thing I want in the world is to leave you, but I will, if you shut me out like you have been. And if this turns out to be a permanent issue, then you're going to need to be a lot more flexible with what I am allowed than you have been."

Then we made love. I told him I didn't want him to do anything he didn't really want, but he was rather insistent. I am not allowing myself to get too excited; we'll see if it sticks.

[...]

I'm almost scared to hope.

Keep talking. One big moment of drama opens the floodgates of communication, but they'll close right back up again if you don't make a continual effort. Talk about the hard stuff. Don't be bitter or nagging, but put the occasional reminder out there that there is still a problem, that you still hurt, and that something has to happen to resolve that.

You know that neither of you wants the relationship to end, so what are your other options? You already mentioned going to the doctor, but like you said that's something he has to make happen. What if he doesn't make that appointment, or if the doctor can't help? If nothing else, knowing that there are other options or even consequences out on the table can help you both be serious about how big a problem this is for you and what can happen if you don't address it.

I really hope this works out for you both.

[evanescence]

You can't make him want you because he's uninterested in sex.

That said, I question why you consider someone who shuts you down whenever you bring up your needs "the love of your life." If he's not willing to listen, really listen to you, and to either meet you somewhere in the middle or let you go elsewhere for sex or lovingly let you go, I think he's selfish. The selfishness has nothing to do with his level of interest in sex; it's how he deals with the mismatch that reveals his true character. In your shoes I would seriously rethink the relationship. No man is worth giving up a core part of yourself, certainly no man with so little interest in your well-being.

JMHO Evanescence

[loving_partner]

You can't make him want you because he's uninterested in sex.

That said, I question why you consider someone who shuts you down whenever you bring up your needs "the love of your life." If he's not willing to listen, really listen to you, and to either meet you somewhere in the middle or let you go elsewhere for sex or lovingly let you go, I think he's selfish. The selfishness has nothing to do with his level of interest in sex; it's how he deals with the mismatch that reveals his true character. In your shoes I would seriously rethink the relationship. No man is worth giving up a core part of yourself, certainly no man with so little interest in your well-being.

JMHO Evanescence

Everybody is selfish sometimes, and everybody has feelings that are hard to talk about. I don't know about their relationship specifically, but I'd say that how you react to one difficult topic does not reflect the person or the relationship as a whole.

We're not talking about people who are accepting of their own asexuality. It's very likely that they're diving into the most sensitive part of his emotions. Knowing how sexual the rest of the world is, he probably feels embarrassed and ashamed of his own lack of desire - I think there's a reason why we hear the work "broken" come up so frequently when new people describe how they feel about not having sexual desire. I know my wife feels like there is something deeply wrong with her, and given typical gender expectations it must be ten times worse for a man in that position.

So if the rest of the relationship leads you to believe that he (or she) really is "the love of your life", isn't that worth taking some time and being willing to be gentle and patient with before calling it quits?

[Pamcakes]

ChooseYourBattles and evanescence, part of the source of confusion is that he has confessed that he does enjoy it (and, as the other person who is there during congress, I can testify to this - and no, I don't mean, "he finishes, so he must enjoy it", I mean "he's very active during the process, tender and incredibly snuggly afterwards, often proposes a second go twenty minutes later and always in a fantastic mood for the rest of the day, so he must enjoy it", but he just has a hard time actually relaxing and getting into the mood. On the one hand, he has a very stressful job and is working constantly on a separate business enterprise on the side, so it's fair that he's always tired. On the other hand, every relationship counseling book I've read on the subject says the same thing; 'For a man, there is no such thing as too tired/stressed for sex.' So what am I supposed to think? Everything seems to contradict everything else. The hardest thing with seeking support on this site is that I am acknowledging that he might be Asexual, but I can't be sure, because none of us knows what goes on in anyone else's head. I'm nervous to slap a tag on him that might not be correct and thus risk misdiagnosing the problem, but at the same time, if that is the answer, I don't want to miss the forest for the trees, either.

Argh.

The more I think about it, the more my head hurts. I just want a definite answer, so I can work with it. But the long story short is, guys, that, yes, I am very tired right now, and this issue is causing us some real stress. However, that doesn't change my decision that this is the man I want to spend my life with. Which is why I'm not giving up until there are no options or possibilities left, or until he demonstrates to me that he doesn't want to resolve the issue.

I do appreciate that you're being honest in your thoughts on the situation and not mollycoddling me, though. I came on here seeking advice and feedback from different perspectives; not just affirmation that I should remain in the relationship, but genuine, truthful counsel. And I am grateful for yours.

I hope you don't take my decision to keep working at it as me ignoring what you have to say, because I'm not. I'm simply taking the advice I've been given, weighing everything up and making the decision that feels right for me, at this time.

loving_partner, thanks for joining the discussion. I've read your responses on other threads (particularly the older ones) and it really does help to have the input of people with similar experiences. I originally posted, looking not just for advice but also support, and confirmation that I'm not alone, and I've recieved it in spades. It really is a great feeling to know that there are people here with me who know my angst, and who care about the end result for my relationship almost as much as I do.

P.

[happylife]

every relationship counseling book I've read on the subject says the same thing; 'For a man, there is no such thing as too tired/stressed for sex.'

we are basically highly individualized individuals, aren't we? why don't you just temporarily skip this part of the book? i suppose no relationship counseling book may be able to speak for the entire male population.

[happylife]

So if the rest of the relationship leads you to believe that he (or she) really is "the love of your life", isn't that worth taking some time and being willing to be gentle and patient with before calling it quits?

my response is yes and no. it's worth, definitely worth. but waiting too long is bad. because you shouldn't get any part of you withered away by "the love of your life". if the "the love of your life" makes you seriously unhappy and leaves some part of you uncared and unnurtured, it might be better to let someone else who can fulfill all parts of you and share the sweetness and bitterness of life together be "the love of your life". and not always worth very much too,,, because taking some time and being gentle and patient would not make anyone become someone they are not. i think sometimes calling it quits early is better since drawing it out can make things more complicated, like having emotional pain aggravated in the end, and among other things time won't wait for you.

[loving_partner]

So if the rest of the relationship leads you to believe that he (or she) really is "the love of your life", isn't that worth taking some time and being willing to be gentle and patient with before calling it quits?

my response is yes and no. it's worth, definitely worth. but waiting too long is bad. because you shouldn't get any part of you withered away by "the love of your life". if the "the love of your life" makes you seriously unhappy and leaves some part of you uncared and unnurtured, it might be better to let someone else who can fulfill all parts of you and share the sweetness and bitterness of life together be "the love of your life". and not always worth very much too,,, because taking some time and being gentle and patient would not make anyone become someone they are not. i think sometimes calling it quits early is better since drawing it out can make things more complicated, like having emotional pain aggravated in the end, and among other things time won't wait for you.

I agree - don't wait forever, and don't make all the compromises and sacrifices yourself. But I think I hear too much advice far too quickly telling people that they should get out now and never look back. It's not just you or this forum - I think that people in general are too quick to abandon relationships because they're not perfect or easy.

Speaking from the point of view of a partner who came to this site recently - when I got here I was in a bad place emotionally, but I really had just started to discover what was going on in my relationship. I knew for a long time that there was a problem, but I was just learning what that problem was. As someone on another thread is pointing out, the problem isn't with me and it isn't with her. It's a problem with *us* - a place where we don't match up.

That's not a cause to break up immediately - that's a revelation that we've been looking for the wrong solutions for years! We've just now learned the language of the actual problem, started learning to accept each other not as "broken" or "unlovable", but as loving partners with different needs. That's not the end of communication, that's just the start!

So I'd say instead of jumping ship right away, take the opportunity to learn more and open up communication. Talk with a therapist if you need to. If you're willing to communicate, you might be able to find a place where you are both happy. And if not, then you can leave knowing that you tried your best.

[loving_partner]

loving_partner, thanks for joining the discussion. I've read your responses on other threads (particularly the older ones) and it really does help to have the input of people with similar experiences. I originally posted, looking not just for advice but also support, and confirmation that I'm not alone, and I've recieved it in spades. It really is a great feeling to know that there are people here with me who know my angst, and who care about the end result for my relationship almost as much as I do.

I'm glad we can all be here for each other. I got a lot of support and comfort when I first arrived as well.

As far as your relationship goes, I say take happylife's advice and throw the book out of the window. If your husband says that he's too tired and stressed for sex, who cares what the book says? Help him relax, and maybe the rest will come naturally. Or maybe you'll help him discover that the cause is beyond just being stressed, and you can start to deal with that instead.

[happylife]

But I think I hear too much advice far too quickly telling people that they should get out now and never look back.

Let's suppose somebody kept a porcupine(or a hedgehog) as a pet. They dearly loved it and wished to live with it forever. But the problem is when they hold it, it hurts. If they try to squeeze it, they'd bleed. They desperately want to feel the body of this adorable creature but feel baffled to know that they couldn't unless the spines of its body are removed. And they came to you for advice.

When I hear sexual members' stories, I try to empathize with posters. If I suggest they consider splitting up, I do it not because I am not taking their love and relationship seriously but because I take their life and pain seriously.

Life is not short, but not long enough to waste, either. And it's lived by everyone only once. Many sexual posters who left their heartbreaking stories on this board spent a very big portion of their life in agony. How would you feel if you have read such posts for a prolonged period of time? Asexual members who get into this section of the board are those who are willing to empathize with the posters and wanting to make them feel they are being listened to even if the readers cannot experience the exact same thing that the writers are depicting in their posts. If the situation looks serious enough, they will advise the posters to look for ways to get themselves out of it.

I know that the advice of "Break up." could sound cold or irresponsible to people in a relationship that's extremely painful to think about abandoning. I suggest the (horrible) idea of breaking up when I feel it's the best choice considering the fact that one's asexuality will not change dramatically over time and I don't want any of the today's sexual members to make the same mistakes that yesterday's sexual members who visited this site with ailing hearts and souls did.

Though you are not a young man in his 20s, you are still young, Loving_partner. But you will not be forever young. If I suggested considering getting a divorce or adopting the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, I would be doing that because I felt for you and hoped to help you in any way I can, though I am acutely aware of how rude it would be to say that to you.

[ETA]

Re "too much advice far too quickly telling people that they should get out now",

There is a way you can test if that's always the case.

Create a thread. And then try writing a post that tells people how much your spouse means to you, how her being around you and having her in your life make you happy, and how willing you are to make compromises. I'll bet you will see a lot of posts with various kinds of advice and words of encouragement coming in. You may find Olivier's and Sonofzeal's posts to be particularly helpful and informative. You might even be impressed with the sincerity of Olivier's posts and the exhaustive lists of possible ways to go about dealing with the issues you are trying to tackle that both of them have put in their posts. But then those probably would not be given if the asexual partner doesn't seem so willing to work with their sexual partners or able to engage in sexual activities.

[loving_partner]

But I think I hear too much advice far too quickly telling people that they should get out now and never look back.

Let's suppose somebody kept a porcupine(or a hedgehog) as a pet. They dearly loved it and wished to live with it forever. But the problem is when they hold it, it hurts. If they try to squeeze it, they'd bleed. They desperately want to feel the body of this adorable creature but feel baffled to know that they couldn't unless the spines of its body are removed. And they came to you for advice.

When I hear sexual members' stories, I try to empathize with posters. If I suggest they consider splitting up, I do it not because I am not taking their love and relationship seriously but because I take their life and pain seriously.

[...]

You might even be impressed with the sincerity of Olivier's posts and the exhaustive lists of possible ways to go about dealing with the issues you are trying to tackle that both of them have put in their posts. But then those probably would not be given if the asexual partner doesn't seem so willing to work with their sexual partners or able to engage in sexual activities.

I understand what you're saying, and I do find many posters here to have very good advice. What I'm suggesting is that many seem too quick to determine that a specific partner is unwilling or unable to compromise, when in many of these cases the asexual partner doesn't understand or hasn't accepted their own asexuality.

I'm saying that those partners need a little time to discover this asexual thing for themselves, and for both partners to come to grips with it before deciding whether you can or can't compromise.

To expand on your own metaphor, a friend of mine did once have a hedgehog as a pet. And yes, he was prickly and you couldn't hug or squeeze him hard. But if you took just a little time to get to get to know this creature, he really was very loving. He liked to be held close but gently, and to nuzzle down against your neck. He made cute little satisfied noises when happy, and as long as you were gentle with him his spines tickled and felt relaxing, not sharp and painful. Almost like a massage.

If we were so quick to say that a hedgehog could never make the compromises needed to be a loving pet, we would have missed getting to know this very sweet creature.

[Pamcakes]

To state a truth that feeds the metaphor, I love hedgehogs.

I think they're cute as a button.

That is all.

[happylife]

Loving_partner

Reading your last post has led me to feel that I have a couple of things to clear up. I'm thinking that doing it in a Q&A format might be pretty effective as well as interesting. ;)

Here is a hypothetical dialogue between you and me.

Loving_partner: No offense, please, Happylife, I'm just asking because I'm curious. Do you really want me, no, us, me and my wife to get divorced? Would that really make you feel better?

Happylife: To answer that question, I need to ask you a question first. "Are you happy in your marriage?" If yes, I would advise you to stay in; if not, I'd shout at you to get out.

Loving_partner: I would love to know why, if you can figure out, why I am having this strange feeling that you seem to be continuously assuming my wife is unable and unwilling to compromise, which couldn't be further from the truth, as I have shown you in a few recent posts.

Happylife: Hmm... That is a very good question, Loving_partner and I'm glad that I can explain it to you in this conversation.

She is not here now, right? She is not the one I am speaking to; you are, Loving_partner. Therefore, naturally my primary concern right now is you.

I know hedgehogs can make compromises to be a loving pet. And a lot of people are having wonderful loving relationships with them, I know. As I said, however, since my eyes still rest on yours, I can't help asking you if the compromises your precious being offers you make you genuinely happy meaning satisfying you without making you ask yourself "Is it worth it?" because the fact that hedgehogs are making compromises doesn't mean that they can always propose and undertake them in a way that makes everyone involved happy.

You may be by now tempted to question if I am pessimistic about your wife making further improvements in the sexual area. My answer is this: I don't think I am pessimistic about it any more than you are.

I'd imagine my stance may be something similar to yours, which can be described as something like "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

I can see that you are very hopeful lately, perhaps more so than ever, due to the great improvement in your sex life with your wife. But I am sure you are aware that there's a possibility that she might not be able to become someone capable of meeting your sexual needs as you expect them to and that you do not want to repeat past mistakes ever again. So I think that to keep exploring polyamory avenue while working on the sex with your wife, which seems to be what you have being doing, is the best thing to do to cope with this situation.

Since the very beginning, you have made it clear that you are wanting certain types of sex, not just sex. Even though it's not that sex has been absent in your marriage bed, the sex you were having with your wife was unsatisfactory for you, and from what I've read, you have maintained the position of keeping the option of getting sex from someone else open in case your wife fails to reach the level of sexualness to satisfy you sexually.

Again, I am not speaking to your wife. I, in fact, can't. What matters to me now is whether or not you feel fulfilled and happy. That is the only criterion. If you are happy with current leaps in your sex life with your loved one and pleased with your life in general as well, there's no reason I will not be happy! No matter what course you'll choose to take, I will be happy for you and supportive of you, as long as you are happy. You can forget everything that I have said thus far, so long as you remember these words: I wish you the best, Loving_partner.

Happylife

[loving_partner]

Loving_partner

Reading your last post has led me to feel that I have a couple of things to clear up. I'm thinking that doing it in a Q&A format might be pretty effective as well as interesting. ;)

Here is a hypothetical dialogue between you and me.

Loving_partner: No offense, please, Happylife, I'm just asking because I'm curious. Do you really want me, no, us, me and my wife to get divorced? Would that really make you feel better?

Happylife: To answer that question, I need to ask you a question first. "Are you happy in your marriage?" If yes, I would advise you to stay in; if not, I'd shout at you to get out.

[...]

What matters to me now is whether or not you feel fulfilled and happy. That is the only criterion. If you are happy with current leaps in your sex life with your loved one and pleased with your life in general as well, there's no reason I will not be happy! No matter what course you'll choose to take, I will be happy for you and supportive of you, as long as you are happy. You can forget everything that I have said thus far, so long as you remember these words: I wish you the best, Loving_partner.

Happylife

Thank you. And I think that at the most basic level we agree.

The question that anyone in doubt of their relationship needs to ask is: "Does this relationship make me happy?" The only problem is that if someone has reached the point where they even ask that question they probably aren't happy - or at least they're not happy right now, or as happy as they want to be. So I think we might want to amend the question, and ask:

"I'm not happy right this second, but I was happy once. Is this just a rough patch in our relationship, where we can become happy again with some work, or has something changed so that I will not be happy again in this relationship?"

If the answer is the second one, then I agree that the person should leave. If they believe that there is still happiness to be had, then they should ask another set of questions:

"What will it take to make me happy again? Is that actually reasonable? How much work is that? Am I and my partner willing to put in that work?"

To put it another way - if you decide that your relationship can be salvaged, you have to decide together if it's worth it. Will you both be happier working to save this relationship, or will you be happier apart?

I want to thank you again, Happylife, for all your well wishes and support. I know we're both trying to offer assistance to Pam and others here, and I don't think we're really that far apart in viewpoint.

[happylife]

I know we're both trying to offer assistance to Pam and others here

Not really, Loving_partner. I was not trying to offer assistance to Pamcakes by writing three of my latest posts in response to yours. Her case is very different. I was just having a conversation with you, which turned out to be a good talk.

I don't think we're really that far apart in viewpoint.

I am glad to hear that you think this way. As you can see, our viewpoints have been close to agreement rather than disagreement. But somehow I was feeling that you were thinking the other way so I wanted to write posts. Also I wanted to tell you that saying "Break up." is not always, especially on this board, intended to hurt the people who are already in pain.

[happylife]

Pamcakes

I think I have to say "I am sorry". As I have been preoccupied with the talk with Loving_partner, I didn't know that I might be doing something that could come off as disrespectful in this thread. I apologize if you feel I did. I can see you're in a very difficult situation. Stay strong. "While there's life there's hope." -- I really love this quote and it pretty much summarizes my overall attitude towards life. Hope things work out for you eventually and you enjoy your stay in this forum. :)

Happylife