Guest Disa Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/6/2019 at 2:58 PM, Just Dani said: It hurts so much... I know, try to always have good coping mechanisms. A shipload of feel better energy and hugs of comfort. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Disa Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 17 hours ago, Ninouk said: So I think I've completely come to terms with my asexuality now (discovered it last year), but I'm still confused about my gender identity. There's also a lot of subtly different (sub)labels and terms, so I was hoping you could help me out a little. I okey to be confused, gender identity is complex, I had a long period I felt I fit in anywhere, but one day when I process it enough, it was no doubts and lot of pieces fell on place. I still confused about other things, like my orientations and probably always will be. What I wanted to say is okey and your awesome, the confusion maybe will stay or not, both is okey. Shipload of good energy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ninouk Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 4 hours ago, naakka said: Well, of course sexuality isn't the whole person, but I mean being asexual (or being tomboy) couldn't completely explain my feeling of otherness 😁 I agree and I think I feel similarly. 4 hours ago, naakka said: I wish you'll find your path! I hope you do too, thanks for the help! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ninouk Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 48 minutes ago, Disa said: I okey to be confused, gender identity is complex, I had a long period I felt I fit in anywhere, but one day when I process it enough, it was no doubts and lot of pieces fell on place. I still confused about other things, like my orientations and probably always will be. What I wanted to say is okey and your awesome, the confusion maybe will stay or not, both is okey. Shipload of good energy. So wholesome, thank you ❤️ I think it's natural to be confused, sometimes more than at others, but it makes you wonder, ponder and grow as a person. Sending good vibes back! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 15 hours ago, Disa said: I know, try to always have good coping mechanisms. A shipload of feel better energy and hugs of comfort. Thank you. Thankfully I do have lots of good coping mechanisms. 😊 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tome Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 i'm nonbinary, and my gender is whatever the people around me think it is. that's how i feel it. if people think i'm a boy, then i'm a boy, etc. if asked, i just say that i use any pronouns; my given name is feminine, so people default to she/her, but online no one knows that :^) 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I had the oddest experience on Friday. It's never happened to me before. I was reading a thread, and someone referred to me as 'she', which is usually fine - it's in my pronoun choices. This time, I stopped dead at that word. I just couldn't move past it, I felt really odd, slightly sick at seeing it in black and white. I think I've been trying to avoid facing up to the whole gender thing. It's been easier to tell myself, yes, I'm OK, not really non-binary, I'm usually female, I just stray into agender from time to time, no biggie. But the truth is, I sense I am basing my identity on how I used to feel, rather than how I feel now I have reached menopause. The change has been very gradual, so it's hard for me to be sure, but I am certain that I used to wander around the female spectrum and only occasionally into agender. Now I think l have a base point of agender and stray off into the female spectrum. I usually wake up agender or close to it, and either stay that way or flux through the day, but I seldom feel fully female any more. Perhaps that's why I am starting to feel bothered by pronouns, I don't know... I guess I need to rethink pronouns. I am stupidly scared though, that seems an awfully big step, a bit too close to being forced to come out... 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Captain_Tass Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 @CustardCream I remember that you mentioned once about not being able to talk to your irl friends about gender stuff because they wouldn't understand. If you ever want to talk to me about these kinds of stuff, my PMs are open. I've also been experiencing a similar thing lately, but in my case it's being unable to recognise if masculinity is part of my gender expression or my gender identity. 24 minutes ago, CustardCream said: But the truth is, I sense I am basing my identity on how I used to feel, rather than how I feel now I can relate to that. All that I'm certain about is that I'm not a girl, and that I'm very unhappy if I try to force myself or am forced by others to be one. 26 minutes ago, CustardCream said: I guess I need to rethink pronouns. I am stupidly scared though, that seems an awfully big step, a bit too close to being forced to come out... It is a big step, and it is scary. If you want a safe space where you can try out and experiment with different pronouns, I suggest that you check out the Pronoun dressing room. It's been very helpful! Best of luck! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Life Of Tass said: @CustardCream I remember that you mentioned once about not being able to talk to your irl friends about gender stuff because they wouldn't understand. If you ever want to talk to me about these kinds of stuff, my PMs are open. I've also been experiencing a similar thing lately, but in my case it's being unable to recognise if masculinity is part of my gender expression or my gender identity. I can relate to that. All that I'm certain about is that I'm not a girl, and that I'm very unhappy if I try to force myself or am forced by others to be one. It is a big step, and it is scary. If you want a safe space where you can try out and experiment with different pronouns, I suggest that you check out the Pronoun dressing room. It's been very helpful! Best of luck! Thank you. I appreciate that. I just had a play with the pronoun dressing room. I rather enjoyed it. I feel much happier with they than she. Also, being cast in Alice in Wonderland was fun! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Captain_Tass Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, CustardCream said: Thank you. I appreciate that. I just had a play with the pronoun dressing room. I rather enjoyed it. I feel much happier with they than she. Also, being cast in Alice in Wonderland was fun! Glad that I could help you! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celyn: The Lutening Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, Life Of Tass said: If you ever want to talk to me about these kinds of stuff, my PMs are open. Ditto this. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strange-quark Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 [redacted] 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Morgan123 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, Strange-quark said: Thinking about what @CustardCream and @Life Of Tass have said, here's a question, probably asked many times before: If gender is not about expression or biology, and not necessarily even about dysphoria (social or body), what is it then? (Sorry if I'm sounding awfully banal) Is it even a meaningful thing to measure? (I don't wanna offend anyone, I'm just confused) You say: it is what you feel inside, where you think you belong. But: I feel like a human. With my sense of belonging, expression and dysphoria fluctuating. Does that make me agender? I don't care about pronouns or titles, but I rather suspect it's because I have grown up in a title-free culture and to a language with gender-neutral pronouns. Does simply me asking these questions and worrying about this make me nonbinary? Saying something like "I'm genderfluid, oscillating between demigirl and demiboy" makes me feel... at the same time happy and bold and a complete impostor. To tell the truth, I think everyone feels like an imposter sometimes, Quarky. Even the loudest and proudest doubt themselves. Me included. And lots of people question things and speculate about stuff but that doesn’t make them anything that they aren’t. But sometimes it is a step. Lots of people never question things because they never have to. It’s natural to want to learn more about something but it doesn’t mean what you are or aren’t. In regards to your question, I don’t have a meaningful answer: I don’t really know what my gender is. But I know what it isn’t. Dysphoria and euphoria are my responses to my identity and expression, I kind of worked it out from there. I know I don’t like the wrong pronouns, or appearance, or physical features. So this is what goes through my head: ”Are you female?” No. ”Are you male?” No. ”Then what are you?” I’m neutral, I guess. ”What does that mean?” It means I’m neutral. ”But would you rather be a man or a woman?” Neither. I’m neutral. ”Yeah, but what does that actually mean?” It means I’m neutral *throws teapot at irritating interviewer* I don’t have enough words to describe what I am, but I have a very clear identity, whatever it is. Maybe I wouldn’t care so much if gender wasn’t a thing, but I know what I’m not- when I present as non-binary, I realise how unhappy I was when I presented as female. So I can’t tell you anything helpful. But what I will say is this: when I first tried non-binary on for size, it felt really weird- I had been so used to presenting as female that I thought I actually was one. I thought I wasn’t really non-binary. But later, I realised that non-binary fitted in a way that nothing else did- that was the first time I felt happy in my own skin. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, Morgan123 said: But what I will say is this: when I first tried non-binary on for size, it felt really weird- I had been so used to presenting as female that I thought I actually was one. I thought I wasn’t really non-binary. But later, I realised that non-binary fitted in a way that nothing else did- that was the first time I felt happy in my own skin. This resonates with me. I think I am reluctant to throw off the concept of female, even though it no longer feels right to me. My fluxing has been fading so slowly it's hard to be sure whether it is still happening, or whether I am simply lying to myself about it, because, let's face it, being asexual is hard enough, I don't think I can face the idea of not being at least partially female as well. I think I am going to try to be brave and stop asking myself how female I feel each morning. Instead, I will tell myself that I am agender, and see if my brain screams 'no, stupid, you're female' at me... 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Strange-quark said: Saying something like "I'm genderfluid, oscillating between demigirl and demiboy" makes me feel... at the same time happy and bold and a complete impostor. Oh yes... I know exactly what you mean. I feel like a fraud all the time. ALL the time. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Captain_Tass Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 59 minutes ago, CustardCream said: I think I am going to try to be brave and stop asking myself how female I feel each morning. Instead, I will tell myself that I am agender, and see if my brain screams 'no, stupid, you're female' at me... When I thought I was girlflux (in truth I was not willing to sever the connection to femininity I was conditioned to believe that I was supposed to have) I used to ask myself each and every morning "How much of a girl are you today?" And at some point I stopped caring. I stopped asking myself that question. I was finally accepting the fact that I was agender. I don't remember what happened that led me to it. I think it was gradual, unnoticeable. And then I had to finally come to terms with my attraction to women. As an AFAB person, I believed that the only people I had to look up to were older sapphic women, so I read their stories and how they first managed to get in terms with their attraction to women. And the one thing that all of them had in common was an acceptance of one's own womanhood, even among butch women. And I couldn't do that, because I simply wasn't a woman. I wasn't a man either. I was only lost. I ended up repressing my gender identity once again, and subconsciously seeing myself as a girl. Not to mention how these were the experiences of sexual WLW and I briefly thought that I might have been faking my graysexuality and grayromanticism because I didn't want to come to terms with my attraction to women. And oh, was I miserable. I don't know how it happened, but at some point I went like "Enough is enough." And I stopped trying to model myself after the experiences of sexual WLW. Because I was neither sexual, nor a woman. I was just a gray pan. And I am still a gray pan. And I will forever be a gray pan. And this gray pan has no gender. I have finally embraced these aspects of my identity. It wasn't easy, but I got here. And I'm doing alright, I've got some amazing supportive friends and my biggest problem right now is that I just finished binging the third season of La Casa de Papel (Money Heist) and I am utterly heartbroken. And even THIS will heal. To any sexual WLW who has just discovered her identity: I hope that the aforementioned experiences of older WLW were much more helpful for you than they were for me. To femininity: We are not enemies, we have parted in peace. To any person here struggling with their identity: It gets better, I promise. To any LCDP fans around these parts: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PoeciMeta Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I relate to so much of this. I sometimes still feel like I made up my own gender and aceness in order to be acceptable in my own eyes, like just because I want to be something doesn't mean I am this (after all, how many aces have wished they were straight? I could be doing that the other way around) and I just don't want to accept that I have a gender and a sexuality - I loathe the very idea - because I'm basically rejecting adulthood. Yet, I rarely ever finish reading something gender-related not wanting to cry. As adulthood is looming closer, I realise that not once have I been happy with my own skin since I was 11, and like an idiot, I hid it all, including to myself. I wasted all my teen years and I'm continuing to waste time, because I refuse to give myself the benefit of doubt. I can't get rid of the idea that I can't prove the abence of a feeling; how can I know what that feeling is if no one can tell me? I have nothing to work from, so maybe I feel things without even knowing it. I have a good excuse after all, I'm dissociated with my emotions anyway. I'm completely numb, except from that vague echo at the back of my head. When I stop being numb, what will I feel? I was obviously a bit at loss as to how to introduce myself on AVEN. But I reasoned, after all, it's no one else's business, so I just didn't specify anything - and guess what, it kind of made sense. Since then, I got used to referring to myself without gendering, not because it feels right, but because my whole being rejects my potential gender so strongly anything else would be inaccurate, and besides I don't even know what I should say. I started tracking every feeling in the vague echo of my head and wasn't able to invalidate the ''agender'' hypothesis yet. Good. I'm starting to think that maybe I'm right about not having a gender after all, but I don't trust myself saying that. I lied, I'm just hoping to be right but I can never really know despite relating to so many descriptions of agender and feeling so dysphoric and I'm so tired and sick and lost and fed up but then all my emotions feel fake and foreign and as soon as I think about it I'm so numb again and also it's 4am and I can't remember what my point was. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IrishArcher Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, PoeciMeta said: I was obviously a bit at loss as to how to introduce myself on AVEN. But I reasoned, after all, it's no one else's business, so I just didn't specify anything - and guess what, it kind of made sense. Since then, I got used to referring to myself without gendering, not because it feels right, but because my whole being rejects my potential gender so strongly anything else would be inaccurate, and besides I don't even know what I should say. I think I can partially relate to this. I never put much thought to my gender until recently - I was born and raised female, and I've always referred to myself as such automatically. However, the more I think about it, the less attachment I feel to the gender. It doesn't really feel like a part of me, if that makes sense. I know I'm not male - I've never identified as masculine, and I don't want to be referred to as such - but I find I'm almost surprised when people use female terms to refer to me (things like girl/woman/daughter/niece). It's not that it feels wrong, per se, it's just that I kind of forget that people see me that way. I have no problem with she/her pronouns, but mostly for convenience sake. Personally, I'd rather just forget about gender and be a human being. I feel like there are so many more important parts of me that I would rather use to introduce myself, and I don't really want to be defined by my gender at all. If I could, I'd just stop people from associating me with any gender so I could discard that lens through which I've always had to interact with the world. I feel like I could have a slightly less biased perception that way, at the very least. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
naakka Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Strange-quark said: Thinking about what @CustardCream and @Life Of Tass have said, here's a question, probably asked many times before: If gender is not about expression or biology, and not necessarily even about dysphoria (social or body), what is it then? (Sorry if I'm sounding awfully banal) Is it even a meaningful thing to measure? (I don't wanna offend anyone, I'm just confused) You say: it is what you feel inside, where you think you belong. But: I feel like a human. With my sense of belonging, expression and dysphoria fluctuating. Does that make me agender? I don't care about pronouns or titles, but I rather suspect it's because I have grown up in a title-free culture and to a language with gender-neutral pronouns. Does simply me asking these questions and worrying about this make me nonbinary? Saying something like "I'm genderfluid, oscillating between demigirl and demiboy" makes me feel... at the same time happy and bold and a complete impostor. Thank you for asking questions. I think it's very important to everyone of us, and usually people can tell if you have good or bad motives. I think a bit different things weight down for different people on their gender. It also depends on your state of self-knowledge and how you're allowed to deal with your gender. In the other words, I think none of the things mentioned, are meaningless, but rather very essential, when we talk about gender. But when your self-knowledge and chances to deal with your gender get better (you're able to ease dysphoria), these things become less meaningful, less urgent in your life. For example, I used to have quite bad social dysphoria. Then I changed my wardrobe and helped people to perceive myself differently, more in line with who I felt inside, and now the social aspect of my gender is no longer an urgent issue in my life. For me it feels like the social aspect really isn't that defining feature of gender, but looking back, I know it is, I just know how to deal with it now (for most of the time), so it's not in the back of my mind all the time anymore. Currently I feel that physical/ body dysphoria is what really defines my gender, but that's because of I have no way to deal with it since I don't have (and I'm not sure if I want) medical treatments. Long story short, I feel that if there never is persistent questions about your gender identity in the back of your mind, the chances are you're cis (of course cis people can also question themselves, especially in the modern times. Anyhow, if there's never an answer pointing to a certain direction regardless the time and day, I'd say the person isn't still knowing themselves well enough to call themselves cis or trans). And I think @Morgan123 presented the process of questioning perfectly: 7 hours ago, Morgan123 said: To tell the truth, I think everyone feels like an imposter sometimes, Quarky. Even the loudest and proudest doubt themselves. Me included. And lots of people question things and speculate about stuff but that doesn’t make them anything that they aren’t. But sometimes it is a step. Lots of people never question things because they never have to. It’s natural to want to learn more about something but it doesn’t mean what you are or aren’t. In regards to your question, I don’t have a meaningful answer: I don’t really know what my gender is. But I know what it isn’t. Dysphoria and euphoria are my responses to my identity and expression, I kind of worked it out from there. I know I don’t like the wrong pronouns, or appearance, or physical features. So this is what goes through my head: ”Are you female?” No. ”Are you male?” No. ”Then what are you?” I’m neutral, I guess. ”What does that mean?” It means I’m neutral. ”But would you rather be a man or a woman?” Neither. I’m neutral. ”Yeah, but what does that actually mean?” It means I’m neutral *throws teapot at irritating interviewer* I don’t have enough words to describe what I am, but I have a very clear identity, whatever it is. Maybe I wouldn’t care so much if gender wasn’t a thing, but I know what I’m not- when I present as non-binary, I realise how unhappy I was when I presented as female. So I can’t tell you anything helpful. But what I will say is this: when I first tried non-binary on for size, it felt really weird- I had been so used to presenting as female that I thought I actually was one. I thought I wasn’t really non-binary. But later, I realised that non-binary fitted in a way that nothing else did- that was the first time I felt happy in my own skin. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlakeTheNightowl~ Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 8 hours ago, Strange-quark said: Thinking about what @CustardCream and @Life Of Tass have said, here's a question, probably asked many times before: If gender is not about expression or biology, and not necessarily even about dysphoria (social or body), what is it then? (Sorry if I'm sounding awfully banal) Is it even a meaningful thing to measure? (I don't wanna offend anyone, I'm just confused) You say: it is what you feel inside, where you think you belong. But: I feel like a human. With my sense of belonging, expression and dysphoria fluctuating. Does that make me agender? I don't care about pronouns or titles, but I rather suspect it's because I have grown up in a title-free culture and to a language with gender-neutral pronouns. Does simply me asking these questions and worrying about this make me nonbinary? Saying something like "I'm genderfluid, oscillating between demigirl and demiboy" makes me feel... at the same time happy and bold and a complete impostor. I’m also agender too and don’t care about pronouns or titles so I agree ! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ninouk Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, IrishArcher said: I think I can partially relate to this. I never put much thought to my gender until recently - I was born and raised female, and I've always referred to myself as such automatically. However, the more I think about it, the less attachment I feel to the gender. It doesn't really feel like a part of me, if that makes sense. I know I'm not male - I've never identified as masculine, and I don't want to be referred to as such - but I find I'm almost surprised when people use female terms to refer to me (things like girl/woman/daughter/niece). It's not that it feels wrong, per se, it's just that I kind of forget that people see me that way. I have no problem with she/her pronouns, but mostly for convenience sake. Personally, I'd rather just forget about gender and be a human being. I feel like there are so many more important parts of me that I would rather use to introduce myself, and I don't really want to be defined by my gender at all. If I could, I'd just stop people from associating me with any gender so I could discard that lens through which I've always had to interact with the world. I feel like I could have a slightly less biased perception that way, at the very least. I can totally relate to this! Strangers are often confused about my gender, referring to me as "he" and "she" within single sentences. I used to find it mostly funny, but now I genuinely like it. There is no real right or wrong way to refer to something that doesn't exist. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I think the reason I struggle to accept the possibility that I may not still be genderflux is that I don't suffer the dysphoria that I associate with the nonbinary. The closest I come is that I truly hate makeup (I feel like I am 'playing at being female') and I am increasingly finding clothing which I previously would be fine with but I now can't wear without low level discomfort. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celyn: The Lutening Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, CustardCream said: I think the reason I struggle to accept the possibility that I may not still be genderflux is that I don't suffer the dysphoria that I associate with the nonbinary. Not everyone has "crying on the floor" levels of dysphoria (lucky them). Your dislike of makeup and hyper-femme clothes, your occasional dislike of she/her pronouns, count. And it is hard to realise that fluctuations in dysphoria or how you feel like presenting are not fluctuations in gender. It's only been recently I've realised that myself, that I stay at slightly masc of centre. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 42 minutes ago, Celyn said: And it is hard to realise that fluctuations in dysphoria or how you feel like presenting are not fluctuations in gender That might be part of my problem. I tend to think I must be more feminine on days when I can wear a skirt or scooped top without feeling uncomfortable, even though I can't feel any difference internally. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Strange-quark Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 [redacted] 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Well, friends, I think I've finally done it - found a haircut that works for both my female and agender days, and doesn't upset my husband who prefers long hair. All I need to do is tie it back or leave it loose according to how I feel. Spoiler 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Karst Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 @CustardCream, that looks lovely! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Captain_Tass Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 @CustardCream you look great! The new hairstyle suits you very much! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Custard Cream Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 @Ardoise, @Life Of Tass - thank you both! It is a great boost to heat that you like it. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Celyn: The Lutening Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Looking good! Yeah it is neutral enough to throw any gender way you want with clothes and accessories. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.