What it feels like to be trans, genderqueer or genderless

[Was here]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:25 AM, Emery. said:

Similarly, but I always understood much better what was going on in guys' heads, and their behaviour seemed much more natural for me. That's how I define feeling like gender. Just identifying with the people and statements about them, belonging to the group. Sharing a certain mindset, way of experiencing things?

 

But I don't know if my gender didn't start to float towards the middle recently?

 I feel stupid for posting this now. gender's confusing, and I know that, and I don't really understand gender the way most people explain it,like,"feeling male/female" and stuff like that. I understand it when put in detail, but in simple terms, I don't understand it. it's weird, i'm just like that.

 

How do people feel gender honestly? Like, I'm AFAB, does that mean I have a female/feminine brain? What is a female brain? a male brain? does the way you think have to do with gender, or is it just what you want for yourself? are there really any rules to identifying as a gender, or just how you think you feel, and that's all that matters? why do I have so many questions? why is gender so confusing??? like, just as I think I understand it, I go back to,"what is it and how does it work, what are the rules to it, if there are any, what does it feel like?" etc.

Edited May 23, 2017 by AnonAsker
feeling dumb for posting this, like most things i say online in general.

[Emery.]

1 minute ago, AnonAsker said:

How do people feel gender honestly?

Like in the post you quoted, if you ask me.

 

1 minute ago, AnonAsker said:

Like, I'm AFAB, does that mean I have a female/feminine brain?

No, hence the whole concept of gender vs sex.

 

2 minutes ago, AnonAsker said:

What is a female brain? a male brain?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/articles/brain_sex.shtml

 

2 minutes ago, AnonAsker said:

does the way you think have to do with gender

Yes, there is a significant correlation

 

3 minutes ago, AnonAsker said:

or is it just what you want for yourself?

To different people being transgender means different things. For some people like me, it means a "brain-body mismatch", for some, it means dysphoria or how they prefer their body to be or how they prefer to be socially.

 

On a side note, the feeling of gender... IMO you don't really "feel" gender if you're cis, you just are a man or a woman and it's all there is to it, no distinctions needed. It's really a concept invented to explain transgenderism.

 

Although I tend to think... if someone has a "cis brain" it would be difficult for them to function as the opposite, just like it is for those who have "trans brains" to feel at peace with their assigned gender. If thoughts don't match reality of what you feel and / or how the world is, that tends to run people into problems.

 

8 minutes ago, AnonAsker said:

why do I have so many questions? why is gender so confusing???

Because it's confusing... Very confusing... I don't know if there is a single person on here who wasn't confused at some point.

[Cloudshape]

I don't feel like I'm either male nor female.  It's strange.  I tend to present more "masculine" in sense of dress and what I'm comfortable wearing.  I have yet to actually have to try to explain this to anyone.  Which is a good thing- I have trouble even explaining it to myself!

[Ghost of AVEN]

I'm genderfluid, but that of course fits under the labels of genderqueer and trans. It feels like one day wishing you had boobs and feeling like you were born in the wrong body, and then ten minutes later feeling completely comfortable in your body. I rarely linger at the extremes of the gender spectrum, but when I do, you can bet I get dysphoric. It feels like hating your birth name completely for a good week, and then being fine with it the next week. It's very confusing, and most days I have no clue where I am on the spectrum. I'm not out to many people, and I doubt many people I know would even know what it is, and I know some would straight (hehe) up reject the idea. Most of the people I know are Catholic, but I did use my Religion assignment in school last term to educate my class on gender

 

[ChillaKilla]

1 hour ago, Don't Wake The Muse said:

Most of the people I know are Catholic, but I did use my Religion assignment in school last term to educate my class on gender

That's pretty awesome!  Would you be interested in elaborating on this? It sounds like a cool spin on the assignment.

[Ghost of AVEN]

6 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

That's pretty awesome!  Would you be interested in elaborating on this? It sounds like a cool spin on the assignment.

Well, it was about the common good, and we had to choose a common good issue, I chose freedom, and a sub-choice of that was gender discrimination. I chose that, and literally had an entire section of the presentation dedicated to terms about gender. I talked about how sex and gender is different as well. I felt proud of that assignment as well, and got a good mark 

[ChillaKilla]

Just now, Don't Wake The Muse said:

Well, it was about the common good, and we had to choose a common good issue, I chose freedom, and a sub-choice of that was gender discrimination. I chose that, and literally had an entire section of the presentation dedicated to terms about gender. I talked about how sex and gender is different as well. I felt proud of that assignment as well, and got a good mark 

That's great!  

[otachi]

I'm agender because I don't feel like I'm "feminine" or "masculine" socially or psychologically. I don't believe in gender roles, and I don't act typically as male or female (whatever that means, because I don't really know what is to act as male or female). I also feel like I don't have a gender, so "agender" fits me well.

 

That said, I'm transmasculine because I feel extreme body dysphoria. Ever since I was kid, I wanted to have a male body. I feels like my mind doesn't fit my body because I imagine myself as having a male body, but then I look at myself and see this female body and I feel distress. I want to have a male body, but that doesn't mean I'm male, since, like I said before, I feel like I don't have a gender.

 

This is really confusing and I can't explain it right.

[Woef]

TW

Spoiler

This is probably going to be stupid and I'm sorry if so, but I honestly wonder. I'm sorry if I offend anyone. This question is mostly for FtM's (but anyone with an answer please answer, thanks)

 

So, uhm, yeah. The thing with genitals and stuff. Do you wish to have a penis? Like I hate having breasts and stuff (not saying I'm trans, I'm questioning and wondering), but it's not like I want a penis? Although I would like to be male sometimes maybe? (Like how about no genitalia because they freak me out?)

Are genitals switched something you wish to have? Do they attract you in a way that like you wish to have them? Is that something all FtM's kindof have because that's sorta in the definition of wanting to be male or is it personal? (I have no clue so sorry if that was weird)

 

Anyway that was probably the weirdest question ever, hence the spoiler. Thanks if anyone answers, sorry if this was inappropriate.

 

 

[Kelpie]

@Woef

Spoiler

This is just my personal experience, but yes, I do wish to have a penis. This is actually one of my biggest dysphorias and it sucks. When I have a dream with myself in it, it's almost always in a male body with a penis, so yeah. I don't know exactly why I want it, I just know that when I was young I kind of expected to have one / slowly "grow" one (I hope you get what I mean, it kind of sounds ridiculous) and was seriously devastated when I found out that yeah that was not going to happen.

 

[Gënøva]

I'm Agender. When I was younger I never was the "girl type" or the "boy type." I wasn't girly or boyish. I had female friends which some were tomboy. But most of my friends are male. In 4th grade I was fitting in in the "Agender" category. I have a girl account on a game which I make it look masculine at some times. People always ask my masculinity, but they stop when I look feminine. I just have an androgyne fashion sense.

[Guest]

Joins the spoiler talk

 

Spoiler

I'd prefer a penis rather over ovaries but on the other hand i don't know if i could walk with extra stuff between my legs all the time..how do men walk anyway? And doesn't that thing bother you all the time? I think i'd love a packer but nothing more then that and i REALLY want an STP because it's soo handy when you are on the road and need to pee!!! I would also love for my periods to stop. *Wants testosterone for that reason alone too*

 

[Kimmie.]

Here is my take

Spoiler

I wish i didn't have it my penis that is. It is just so out of place down there. It just should not be there at all. I don´t know what i would like instead. To be honest the thought of cut it off has come to my mind several times. But my mind goes directly to the outcome. If i would survive the blood lose and pain they would probably just do something to 

reconstruct it.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Jayce said:

Joins the spoiler talk

 

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I'd prefer a penis rather over ovaries but on the other hand i don't know if i could walk with extra stuff between my legs all the time..how do men walk anyway? And doesn't that thing bother you all the time? I think i'd love a packer but nothing more then that and i REALLY want an STP because it's soo handy when you are on the road and need to pee!!! I would also love for my periods to stop. *Wants testosterone for that reason alone too*

 

Spoiler

 

It's in the way, a lot. And the balls... can stick to your legs, needing to go and grab them to free them up again... 

 

But whom am I to talk, I want them gone, lol.

 

 

[Just Me!]

I have a question....

 

Do genderfluid m/f people consider themselves binary when they're feeling either way? Do they think of themselves as "yes, I'm a binary male" or "yes, I'm a binary female" when they're in either phase? If so, are genderfluid people binary?

 

FtM or MtF people can consider themselves binary, and it seems like m/f genderfluid people fluctuate between the binary genders, so...

 

 

[Enne Kristin]

Not the case for me... at least I feel nonbinary allways, so on masculine days I dont feel "manly", but masculine, on feminine day the same... So, no, I am not binary on these times. Most of the time, I am on the "inbetween", "neither", "null", agender/androgyne/gender neutral/void part of the spectrum after all. Genderfluid people fluctuate on the gender spectrum(s), but not necessarily on the binary. Some may, but I think most wont...

[Finn.]

 

I never feel fully gendered if that makes sense. It can get close, but never fully. As N'y said, I'm most often in the inbetween or neither. Mmh. There's a genderfluid youtuber who goes from male to female. They don't seem to be active rn but I could try asking that question in the comments. It's a tiny community so I might get an answer.

 

I often hear "nonbinary and genderfluid people". It sounds strange to me, as I am genderfluid and nb, and every genderfluid person seems nb in my eyes. But I always figured that's the reason, that there are people going from *binary to binary* and maybe don't see themselves as nb per se?

[Enne Kristin]

18 minutes ago, Finn. said:

going from *binary to binary* and maybe don't see themselves as nb per se?

yes, I stumbled across that many times... They feel themselves as binary people captured on the wrong side of the binary. some even got rude, calling nb persons snowflakes or fakes, "its a phase" or "fashion". Seemed a real contest of being "true scots" to them... Only them being True. It was a bit unsettling, it felt like erasure first hand. But I don't define be the judgements of others anymore and there are sooo many people from cis to trans* who are supportative, I no longer feel bad about that. It is their opinion and I dont have to agree with. I am absolutly nb and I could go by this label, or androgyne, intergender (knowing many hold this exclusively for intersex people...), gender neutral, demigender , genderqueer, -variant or even greygender. From an objective perspective, I might be called trans*, but I don't claim that label for me. I am just somewhere inbetween...

[Salted Karamel]

On 5/23/2017 at 9:32 AM, Emery. said:

On a side note, the feeling of gender... IMO you don't really "feel" gender if you're cis, you just are a man or a woman and it's all there is to it, no distinctions needed. It's really a concept invented to explain transgenderism.

This is the most confusing thing to me. Because if cis folks don't feel gender, what distinguishes a cis person from an agender person?

 

I consider myself something like demigirl I suppose, but I have no real dysphoria about my body. I honestly feel like a genderless being who has been placed inside a female body and then treated in the female role for a few decades, so sure I have some experiences that other people with similar bodies and who have been placed in the same role share. But I don't feel inherently anything. I wish gender didn't exist at all and that we all had completely gender neutral bodies with no sex organs or secondary sex characteristics, and I wouldn't miss any of those attributes of my own body as long as everyone else was the same. Not living in that fantasy world, however, I wouldn't want to chop off my female parts because it would make me too noticeably different from the rest of society and that would make me uncomfortable— the being visibly different. So I just accept being called female, etc., but I don't feel like it's a thing that I "am." It would be more accurate to say I feel like it's a thing that happened to me.

 

And I have no idea if people consider that cisgender or what. Because if I have no relationship with gender but just passively shrug at what's been assigned to me as a matter of convenience, then what's the difference? All I know is that I feel uncomfortable when people label me as "cisgender" because I feel like I'm not, but that could just as easily be said to be someone's discomfort with their privilege or something. But like, if someone mistakenly labeled me as allosexual I'd feel just as uncomfortable because I feel like I am not, but I still wouldn't say anything and just let that passively happen because I'd rather not get into it with most people.

 

I'm getting sidetracked here. What I want to know is what feels different about being cisgender and genderless? Is dysphoria the key?

[Emery.]

I just think cisgender people have a difficult time grasping the concept, because they have instincts that were meant for their body type and don't know what it's like if they don't match. They just tend to take it as given that being physcially male implies this and being female that. Of course I'm not saying there aren't agender or non-binary people out there.

[Kelpie]

I always experienced that a lot of cis people identify with their assigned gender. You have things "for girls" - products, groups, books, whatever - and they like the idea and consume it willingly while I've always found the thought repulsive. 

[999papercranes]

22 hours ago, katydidd said:

This is the most confusing thing to me. Because if cis folks don't feel gender, what distinguishes a cis person from an agender person?

 

I consider myself something like demigirl I suppose, but I have no real dysphoria about my body. I honestly feel like a genderless being who has been placed inside a female body and then treated in the female role for a few decades, so sure I have some experiences that other people with similar bodies and who have been placed in the same role share. But I don't feel inherently anything. I wish gender didn't exist at all and that we all had completely gender neutral bodies with no sex organs or secondary sex characteristics, and I wouldn't miss any of those attributes of my own body as long as everyone else was the same. Not living in that fantasy world, however, I wouldn't want to chop off my female parts because it would make me too noticeably different from the rest of society and that would make me uncomfortable— the being visibly different. So I just accept being called female, etc., but I don't feel like it's a thing that I "am." It would be more accurate to say I feel like it's a thing that happened to me.

 

And I have no idea if people consider that cisgender or what. Because if I have no relationship with gender but just passively shrug at what's been assigned to me as a matter of convenience, then what's the difference? All I know is that I feel uncomfortable when people label me as "cisgender" because I feel like I'm not, but that could just as easily be said to be someone's discomfort with their privilege or something. But like, if someone mistakenly labeled me as allosexual I'd feel just as uncomfortable because I feel like I am not, but I still wouldn't say anything and just let that passively happen because I'd rather not get into it with most people.

 

I'm getting sidetracked here. What I want to know is what feels different about being cisgender and genderless? Is dysphoria the key?

This is basically how I feel. What is gender supposed to "feel" like anyway? Do I not "feel" gender because I'm "cis?" (I don't identify as that, anyway...) I just feel like a genderless person who's ok with being seen as female for practical reasons. 

[BionicPi]

7 minutes ago, 999papercranes said:

This is basically how I feel. What is gender supposed to "feel" like anyway? Do I not "feel" gender because I'm "cis?" (I don't identify as that, anyway...) I just feel like a genderless person who's ok with being seen as female for practical reasons. 

I feel similarly, partially because I've never had social dysphoria, I often was misgendered for my voice (even into high school) and never cared.

[Estael]

On 5/25/2009 at 2:16 AM, AllyCat said:

Oh, jeez, I don't fit either of these categories. I'm not trans, because I'm OK with my body and with getting read as a (weird) female, but I don't know that my gender identity matches my body either.

The way I think about it is that society has gender categories, and your placement in a gender category has subtle but deeply entrenched effects on the way your are treated. And people have all sorts of preferences relating to their social treatment, and they position themselves to be treated the way they want. If I'm teaching class, I will dress up in a blazer and nice pants, because I like the way it makes students treat me.

Being put into the female category often comes with belittling and low status, but there are qualities that might make a person choose that category nonetheless. It offers the opportunity for close friendships with other people in the female category, many of whom are totally awesome. Placing yourself in the female category can be one way of finding an erotic language that designates you as desirable and beautiful.

I think that people who are trans and masculine don't just want to be in the male category for the preferential treatment, but for subtler reasons. It can give you a kind of close relationship with other people in the male category that is hard to achieve otherwise. It makes it easier to conceptualize yourself and your body as strong.

I like seeing how many different places I can fit myself. I think there's a subtype of the female category that feels like "home" to me in some very specific settings (e.g., when I am surrounded by other women in the same subtype), but that I can't always access. It feels much less "home" to me in other settings (e.g., interacting with male friends, trying to find an erotic language that suits me).

Don't know if that's any help to anyone else; it's much more about gender than about body. My body has always cooperated with me more or less, and I don't know what it's like to have body dysphoria.

Wow, I finally found someone who kind of put my feelings into words. Thank you so much!

[Salted Karamel]

On 6/12/2017 at 1:29 AM, Emery. said:

I just think cisgender people have a difficult time grasping the concept, because they have instincts that were meant for their body type and don't know what it's like if they don't match. They just tend to take it as given that being physcially male implies this and being female that. Of course I'm not saying there aren't agender or non-binary people out there.

But what are these “instincts”?

 

On 6/12/2017 at 7:20 AM, Kelpie said:

I always experienced that a lot of cis people identify with their assigned gender. You have things "for girls" - products, groups, books, whatever - and they like the idea and consume it willingly while I've always found the thought repulsive. 

But then what’s the difference between a person who isn’t female and a female who thinks the idea of gendered mass produced products is silly?

[Tholomyes]

To be honest, I'm not sure what my gender is. I've been thinking about it a decent amount recently, and have come to the conclusion that I don't really feel "male" specifically, but I also don't feel "female" specifically, and I don't know what feeling like a gender is supposed to feel like, so maybe I do feel male, but just don't have the context of what feeling not-male feels like. I don't identify with many of male stereotypes, but I also don't know the extent that stereotypes are indicative of gender. I've taken a few gender tests, and I generally find myself fairly androgynous (or in the case of some tests which make the distinction, undifferentiated, as defined by a low score on both masculine and feminine indices). However, I am skeptical of some of the test methodology, as I suspect my relative youth, and my growing up in New York made me less susceptible to the strong assignment of gender roles, which these tests often tend to include in their questions. I can't tell if I simply don't hold strong gender roles or if I am somewhere on the non-binary (most likely agender) spectrum.

 

In any event, while I am all for introspection and self knowledge, I don't think it matters much to me in practice. I feel no dysphoria, even though my appearance is fairly masculine, and I have no issue with using masculine pronouns. Even if I found I was agender or some other non-binary position on the spectrum, I doubt I would come-out as such. I'd pretty much just operate as I always have, bucking masculinity where it doesn't suit me and accepting femininity where it does, but without publicly identifying as anything other than "male".

[Kelpie]

5 hours ago, katydidd said:

But then what’s the difference between a person who isn’t female and a female who thinks the idea of gendered mass produced products is silly?

I've actually thought about that just yesterday, too, and I definitely can't give a clear-cut answer, but my thoughts on that:

I think cis women can definitely find the concept of gendered products silly, but they'll still... think that it was for them? If you get what I mean? Their thoughts would be "Why would I buy that just because it's pink" and not "Why would I buy that, they aren't advertising that to me". 

And I also wasn't just thinking about products in this scenario but also groups. A few months ago we were doing stuff with a few friends and we had to decide which way to walk back (there were two) so we jokingly decided to just split up into girls and guys and try both to see which one is taking less time and I just naturally sided with the guys without actually thinking about it. 

[ChillaKilla]

10 hours ago, katydidd said:

But then what’s the difference between a person who isn’t female and a female who thinks the idea of gendered mass produced products is silly?

Because me being not female has nothing to do with me being annoyed with gendering products 

[Emery.]

10 hours ago, katydidd said:

But what are these “instincts”?

If you have a problem with seeing instincts in people, look at animals and then realise that people are animals with more brain.

[Salted Karamel]

13 hours ago, ChillaKilla said:

Because me being not female has nothing to do with me being annoyed with gendering products 

Makes a lot more sense than defining gender by your reaction to mass production, but then how would you define knowing what gender you are? And if it's something you "just know," then what if you don't "just know"? Is it only defined by dysphoria?

 

Is transgenderism always defined by the lack of something (feeling you are not a specific gender) or is it defined by the presence of something (feeling you are a specific gender)? And if it's defined by the presence of a positive gender identity then what does it mean that I don't feel I am any specific gender but am not dysphoric?

 

Moreover, if transgenderism is defined by the presence of a positive feeling of being a specific gender, but cisgender people do not feel they are any specific gender (the absence of gender experience), then let's say you have an AFAB person who is not dysphoric and an AMAB person who is transfemale. If being cisfemale is defined by being born in a female body and not experiencing a specific gender, but being transfemale is defined by having the identifiable experience of being female, then does that mean that trans people are actually more gendered than cis people, who are thereby more gender neutral than trans people??

 

Sorry if I'm asking annoying questions here, but I'm having an "if you can see the invisible elephant please describe it" experience all over again. xD I have never intuitively experienced gender in my life yet it seems all sorts of people know with a lot of conviction what gender they are, and even though I've always greeted the assignment of "female" with a great big shrug and "sure why not," I can't relate to that experience of conviction and strong gender identity at all. Yet people would call me cisgender, so are they wrong or am I?