How to get to heaven

[Guest DiscoBison]

Hmm its not the fatherly white guy with a beard they both have that.

:D :D :D

[Sally]

Is there cake in Valhalla?

[that_american_kid]

Is there cake in Valhalla?

If there's not, there should be. I'm counting on cake in Christian heaven, too... which reminds me of a scene in Good Omens.

I'm thinking, on a slightly more serious note, that this thread is here and the others are in JFF because this one was started in all seriousness, while the others began as tongue-in-cheek responses. If it had begun as an independant thread to discuss the benefits of a religion, then it would belong here because other religions are just as valid to their adherents as Christianity is to Christians. A similar thread about Islam, for example, would belong here as well but the Oz thread is definitely just a joke. So is the hell one. I think we're discussing name changes and lakes in Finland now and the original post was no more serious. So I get the logic, that it's based on the intentions of the OP, rather than the topic matter.

[Sally]

I don't care where anything is on AVEN -- it's just one big bag. It's always amusing to see how far afield we go. But these I'm-going-to-SAVE-you threads drive me nuts and cause me to say things I wouldn't ordinarily say. (Ha. I say them all the time.)

[Eddie7]

I'm thinking, on a slightly more serious note, that this thread is here and the others are in JFF because this one was started in all seriousness, while the others began as tongue-in-cheek responses. If it had begun as an independant thread to discuss the benefits of a religion, then it would belong here because other religions are just as valid to their adherents as Christianity is to Christians. A similar thread about Islam, for example, would belong here as well but the Oz thread is definitely just a joke. So is the hell one. I think we're discussing name changes and lakes in Finland now and the original post was no more serious. So I get the logic, that it's based on the intentions of the OP, rather than the topic matter.

I understand that, which is why I haven't said anything about the hell of Australia ones being moved. They were obviously posted to be "funny" versions of this thread, so the fact they were moved isn't a big deal.

However, the Valhalla one is structured exactly like this one. It discusses how one would go about getting to such a place, and people were having a rather serious discussion about Norse belief systems within it. As such, I fail to see why that one is deemed "just for fun" whereas this one gets to remain.

[Astryda]

I'm not a Christian (or any other sort of believer, neither an atheist), but I can see Shadow girl didn't have bad intentions (at least in this thread), she just wanted to share her thoughts with those who believe in the same things. And she wrote 'Contains much Christianity read only if interested no flames' not to say 'this thread is a forbidden fruit, come everyone and see!' as most of you think, but to be avle to talk about things that she's interested in, not to drive others to crazy.

I believe most of us want to be respected, but they should respect others as well. Everyone is allowed to discuss things they're interested in. If someone doesn't like them- don't enter.

Regards :)

[EricK]

I'm not a Christian (or any other sort of believer, neither an atheist), but I can see Shadow girl didn't have bad intentions (at least in this thread), she just wanted to share her thoughts with those who believe in the same things. And she wrote 'Contains much Christianity read only if interested no flames' not to say 'this thread is a forbidden fruit, come everyone and see!' as most of you think, but to be avle to talk about things that she's interested in, not to drive others to crazy.

I believe most of us want to be respected, but they should respect others as well. Everyone is allowed to discuss things they're interested in. If someone doesn't like them- don't enter.

Regards :)

This thread wasn't a discussion though. It read more like an advertisement.* And I don't think a discussion board is really the right place for religious spam.

*Although since she can't back up any of the promises made ("Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.", "If you prayed that prayer from your heart to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.") we should really report her to the Advertisement Standards Authority, but I'm prepared to go easy on her and not get the authorities involved.

[that_american_kid]

I'm thinking, on a slightly more serious note, that this thread is here and the others are in JFF because this one was started in all seriousness, while the others began as tongue-in-cheek responses. If it had begun as an independant thread to discuss the benefits of a religion, then it would belong here because other religions are just as valid to their adherents as Christianity is to Christians. A similar thread about Islam, for example, would belong here as well but the Oz thread is definitely just a joke. So is the hell one. I think we're discussing name changes and lakes in Finland now and the original post was no more serious. So I get the logic, that it's based on the intentions of the OP, rather than the topic matter.

I understand that, which is why I haven't said anything about the hell of Australia ones being moved. They were obviously posted to be "funny" versions of this thread, so the fact they were moved isn't a big deal.

However, the Valhalla one is structured exactly like this one. It discusses how one would go about getting to such a place, and people were having a rather serious discussion about Norse belief systems within it. As such, I fail to see why that one is deemed "just for fun" whereas this one gets to remain.

I had the same thought when I read the Valhalla thread this morning, actually. So yeah, I'd support that one being moved here, as it's serious.

[Astryda]

I'm thinking, on a slightly more serious note, that this thread is here and the others are in JFF because this one was started in all seriousness, while the others began as tongue-in-cheek responses. If it had begun as an independant thread to discuss the benefits of a religion, then it would belong here because other religions are just as valid to their adherents as Christianity is to Christians. A similar thread about Islam, for example, would belong here as well but the Oz thread is definitely just a joke. So is the hell one. I think we're discussing name changes and lakes in Finland now and the original post was no more serious. So I get the logic, that it's based on the intentions of the OP, rather than the topic matter.

I understand that, which is why I haven't said anything about the hell of Australia ones being moved. They were obviously posted to be "funny" versions of this thread, so the fact they were moved isn't a big deal.

However, the Valhalla one is structured exactly like this one. It discusses how one would go about getting to such a place, and people were having a rather serious discussion about Norse belief systems within it. As such, I fail to see why that one is deemed "just for fun" whereas this one gets to remain.

I had the same thought when I read the Valhalla thread this morning, actually. So yeah, I'd support that one being moved here, as it's serious.

Same here.

[Næt.]

Does anyone else get the song 'Three Steps to Heaven' running through their head whenever they see this topic, or is it just me?

[ThePieMaker]

Actually, the song "You Can't Get to Heaven on Roller Skates" comes to mind.

[Prefers Pie]

For me, it's "Heaven" by Psychedelic Furs.

Heaven - is the whole of the heart

and heaven - don't tear you apart

Yeah heaven - is the whole of the heart

and heaven - don't tear you apart

There's too many kings

wanna hold you down

and a world at the window

gone underground

[that_american_kid]

Destination Heaven, as sung by Cosmos (awesome Latvian a-capella group)

Don't be scared to close your eyes

This is the only way to see the light...

I'm about to go to heaven

I'm about to say goodbye

everybody wants to go to heaven

but nobody wants to die...

[EricK]

Heaven is a Place on Earth

[ThePieMaker]

Heaven is a Place on Earth

i.e. The Smithsonian

Or at least that's my heaven.

[Olivier]

For me, the song is Heaven, by the Eurogliders.

Oooooh! Ooh I want to find a better place

Oooooh! Ooh I'm searching for a better place

Oooooh! Ooh I'm tired of living in the sand

Oooooh! Ooh I'm searching for a better land

Heaven, must be there-ere

Well, it's just got to be there-ere

I've never - never seen Eden

I don't wanna live in this place

Oooooh! Ooh I'm always trying to escape

Oooooh! Ooh I never know which road to take

Heaven, must be there-ere

Well, it's just got to be there-ere

I've never, never seen Eden

I don't wanna live in this place

Heaven, must be there-ere

Well, it's just got to be there-ere

I've never, never seen Eden

I don't wanna live in this place

Live in this place

Live in this place, this place

Oooooh! Ooh I want to find a better place

Oooooh! Ooh I'm searching for a better place

Heaven, must be there-ere

Well, it's just got to be there-ere

I've never, never seen Eden

I don't wanna live in this place (don't wanna live)

Heaven, must be there-ere

Well, it's just got to be there-ere (must be there-ere)

I've never, never seen Eden

I don't wanna live in this place

Heaven, must be there-ere

Well, it's just got to be there-ere (must be there-ere)

I've never, never seen Eden

I don't wanna live in this place (fade)

Even in terms of repetitiveness and shallowness, blind hope and oversimplification it fits perfectly. :)

[Shadow girl]

I feel to be fair to Shadow she did in the main title state..

How to get to heaven, Contains much Christianity read only if interested no flames.

When someone makes it clear in the threads topic of it's intent and asks for no flames then it's a bit unfair to go in flaming then complain about the topic.

It almost appears some go looking for a row, why not just leave contributing if you do not agree and let the thread die?

Like I said it was honestly decalred from the outset

No one poster owns a thread. If that were true, then we'd all be starting threads and controlling entrance to those threads. Do you want your ability to post be controlled by OPs?

Re the "Christians only" thing, as someone else said, if Shadow Girl wanted no contrary posts, she could have posted this on a Christian website, or somewhere where people were ASKING for information on Christianity.

The Christian sites already know this stuff. I say let people who don't know it know. Make it a learning opportunity.

Since I started the thread I do technically take ownership for what I post.

[Sally]

The Christian sites already know this stuff. I say let people who don't know it know. Make it a learning opportunity.

Since I started the thread I do technically take ownership for what I post.

Your "learning opportunity" is a flat-out attempt to convert. You will not get converts that way. Leave it to the professionals; they know how to do it.

Everyone takes ownership for they post whether or not they started a thread. You post it; you own it. No excuses, no "I'm young", no "I didn't mean it that way, you misinterpreted it."

[Shadow girl]

The Christian sites already know this stuff. I say let people who don't know it know. Make it a learning opportunity.

Since I started the thread I do technically take ownership for what I post.

Your "learning opportunity" is a flat-out attempt to convert. You will not get converts that way. Leave it to the professionals; they know how to do it.

Everyone takes ownership for they post whether or not they started a thread. You post it; you own it. No excuses, no "I'm young", no "I didn't mean it that way, you misinterpreted it."

Did I ever say flat out "I'm here to convert you"? I don't think so.

I'm here to give you the message not to convert you that isn't my job ok.

Thats what you say. But really you misinterpret too much before you really make an insinuation.

Really?Why do you bother?

If something I says bugs you then you can always go to another post or just ignore me.

[niku-bot]

If it's not to convert people, why post it? A learning experience that anyone can find about anywhere when they choose to?

I guess it's just tiring to have religion, and usually only Christianity, shoved in my face everywhere I go. Everyone wants me to "try it out." But I tell one person about my religion and it's like a wall, they refuse to have anything to do with it, how dare I tell them what I believe.

[ThePieMaker]

Shadowgirl, most people who have encountered Christianity know what it supposedly takes to get into heaven, it's just many of us (those who follow Christ even) don't buy it. It comes across as an attempt at converting people. Plus, no one likes it when people portray these things as absolute. No one knows what it really takes to get into heaven except the one deciding who gets into heaven (if there really is a heaven).

[niku-bot]

I always hope that there is a Jesus so that white-supremacists could see who they're worshiping. It's not that pretty white man with the okay hair that's so popular. :lol:

[that_american_kid]

I always hope that there is a Jesus so that white-supremacists could see who they're worshiping. It's not that pretty white man with the okay hair that's so popular. :lol:

Actually, I've had a similar thought. I already believe in Jesus, I just wish he was portrayed a little more realistically in art. He *was* middle eastern and Jewish, after all. People forget that, and although I kind of see why (I think it's because we tend to identify most closely with those who remind us of ourselves) I don't think there's any real point to it.

[Sally]

Did I ever say flat out "I'm here to convert you"? I don't think so.

I'm here to give you the message not to convert you that isn't my job ok.

"Giving the message" is an attempt at conversion, from whatever religion or no religion. You and other fundamental Christians want us to believe as you do. You know that. We all know that.

You have given all of us the message. We have the information now. We don't need anymore. Thank you.

[Shadow girl]

Did I ever say flat out "I'm here to convert you"? I don't think so.

I'm here to give you the message not to convert you that isn't my job ok.

"Giving the message" is an attempt at conversion, from whatever religion or no religion. You and other fundamental Christians want us to believe as you do. You know that. We all know that.

You have given all of us the message. We have the information now. We don't need anymore. Thank you.

For now this is my last message on the subject. I'm just finishing up what I started and am here to answer to anyone's questions about it.

I'm just letting them know that I'm here and that I know about it and if they want to ask anything then I'm more then happy to give an answer.

[niku-bot]

Answer Fish's question and my questions please. We had real questions here.

[Olivier]

For now this is my last message on the subject. I'm just finishing up what I started and am here to answer to anyone's questions about it.

I'm just letting them know that I'm here and that I know about it and if they want to ask anything then I'm more then happy to give an answer.

And I have a sincere question:

Why are you convinced that our attempts to have an abundant life without God are doomed to failure?

I think that worldview is incredibly saddening. It reflects a view that we, just in ourselves, are worthless and incapable of finding our own happiness. That indicates to me a profound lack of self-esteem.

In the spirit of you letting us know that you have found fulfillment through God, I'll tell you once again that there are billions of people on this planet who live abundant lives without your God. I tell you that not to convert you to atheism, or another religion, but just to let you know that there's a whole lot of truth out there that churches like the CCCI will either shield you from, or lie to you about, for their own ends.

You say that needing God for an abundant life is a cornerstone of your belief, but I must inform you that it ain't necessarily so, and if you looked at the world through your own eyes, and didn't just believe everything the church and its media told you, you'd see it as plain as day, right in front of your face, right in this thread, even.

[Sally]

Give it up, Olivier and everybody. You will not get an answer other than what has already been offered.

[Olivier]

While I would like a reply to my first question, for the rest I'm just putting some truth out there.

What Shadow girl does with that truth is up to her. It's paradigm she's familiar with, I believe.

[Shadow girl]

This is in no way a flame. If it sounds like one, I'm really sorry, and please tell me if it appears so. I'm simply curious and wondering.

Why is it that god is omnipotent, omnipresent, "ruler of the world," yet constantly seeking praise? This isn't even just with Christianity. Even within my religious affiliation, people constantly praise the creator in some way, though it's not needed. I'm just wondering, why? Why isn't sitting back, enjoying life enough? Why does god want people to pray, worship, speak in his favor? Why is he constantly seeking this form of approval from his "flawed" creations? I was told he was perfect as a young child.

Why is it that generally accepted things, such as eating shellfish, seen as, "Oh, well, times have changed," or something to that equivalent? Why is picking and choosing okay within a large realm of Christianity?

Also, I wonder, why do I become more "religious" in a really delusional sense when I become psychotic? Perhaps that's really outside the realm of any religion, but I've always wondered. I start hearing voices and think they're angels, see shadows and think they're demons, feel pulled to rid the world of "poisons" (which in my psychotic mind includes television, games, really any form of media, and government) and think it's god.

Last on my list, if god has no part in hell, how do people get sent there? Don't just tell me that it's the person's "choice" please, because that will just, in a small way, go back to my first paragraph of questions.

I honestly wonder these things.

No problem

To your first question

Intimacy with His children is what God desires. Just as parents want to have conversations with their children, wives want to have conversations with their husbands, or friends want to have conversations with each other, God wants to have a conversation with you to deepen your relationship with Him. He is omniscient (all knowing). He knows all we do and knows our thoughts (1 John 3:20, Psalm 139: 1-6). Even though He already knows, He wants you to ask because it’s the relationship He desires…the connection is strengthened when we ask Him to provide something for us. While God does answer prayer (James 5:16), the answer may not be what we feel it should have been. We can be assured, however, that how God does answer prayer will always be what is best for us.

One can only truly know someone’s heart by spending quality time with that person. God wants to spend quality time with you.

For what he did for us he deserves the praise and it like I said deepens the relationship.

When Jesus came a lot of things changed from the older ways. Plus people in those days had been raised with those beliefs and past them on. Some still practice things the old way because that is they're way of faith. Like some don't eat meat in faith. While some do eat meat. However they may decide to not drink in faith.

You have to ask yourself these questions...Is it what God would want me to do? Is it illegal? Does it harm my body? You must follow your convictions.

Can you specify a little bit more on that question? What do you mean by delusional and psychotic? What do you think triggers this? Do you have any current mental issue that makes you think this (Not trying to offend you just concerned)? If you want to pm on that then you may and I'll see what I can do to help answer that for you.

Simply it is the choosing of rejecting the truth and salvation that Jesus. Its like this... lets say you are hanging off of a cliff the bottom is dark and just falls into a endless void. However a man (Jesus) sees this and can reach you and offer his hand to you and pull you up. The foothold (your life platform) you are on is crumbling m(we are after all dying the minute we are born) and you have a decision to make. Will you trust this man to pull you up or will you make a failed attempt to save your own self?

Its like that.