'Obamaphobia'?

[squiggle]

Sarah Palin was just plain mad when she brought up the subject of the very idea of actually using nukes.

But I don't think she was/is the antichrist.

As for Obama.- I don't personally trust him. But then I don't generally trust politicians. -I think the majority of them are just a bunch of idiots with inferiority complexes who seek power as a means of compensating for their own inferiority.

If they're 'great orators' I regard that more likely than not as nothing more than cunning.

Plus I watched 'The Obama Deception'. I think it's perfectly feasible he's working for Wall St., and not the American people.

Is he the antichrist? No. (Because the antichrist is fiction. Nobody can really tell the future. So 'revelations' is a steaming pile of crap.)

Is Obama a shill for the elite who own the banks? -I think most very probably.

I doubt Obama will usher in a golden age. I doubt he will even end all the wars Bush started.

He might even start some more if a new 'enemy of the year' can be found.

[squiggle]

Not particularly. UK all three main parties are on the neo-liberalist side of the scale. None of them are particularly socialist.

None of them are socialist at all. -Or at least not in a conventional sense. -New Labour have revealed themselves to be nothing more than a vile post modern mix of all the worst things from socialism (ID cards, interconnecting databases, police state, nanny state, state interference, tracking of citizens... Basically techno-Stalinism) and all the worst things from crapitalism -ie blank cheques for bankers, massive personal and national debt, privatisation of industries that operate more efficiently in state ownership, and an education system that allows universities to train people for jobs in certain sectors that simply don't exist! -The tories are generally insufferable toffee-nosed snobs who would have a feudal system if they could get away with it -and the Liberals just haven't got a clue.

For the last few elections I've not voted because there isn't anybody in the UK worth voting for. -I think the next election will be fought on the ID cards issue. The British people don't want a database state. The UK government can't grasp that fact that the British don't want to live in a police state. -Nu-Labour have already committed political suicide on that issue, so now were facing Tory rule -slightly different -but just as bad...

-I'd just like a libertarian and pragmatic government in the UK, -and one that didn't get us involved in the neo-cons wars, which as a nation we cannot afford to fight! Is that really too much to ask?

[Inevitable]

*honestly has no idea why people are so opposed to ID cards*

[Eddie7]

*honestly has no idea why people are so opposed to ID cards*

You're okay with fingerprinting and collecting DNA of everyone in the country?

You're okay with having to carry a card that includes more than fifty pieces of personal information?

You're okay with the idea that you'll be fined for not carrying your card or not informing the government of any changes in your life?

You're okay with the government having this much data about each person in one database given their track record with personal information?

You're okay with the billions that will be spent on this given there is no clear benefit for it?

Fair enough then.

[Næt.]

It's, like, fascist man! The government is fascist! The police are fascist! The NHS is fascist, it's bending to the will of the government's secret eugenics agenda; it's fascist!

[Sally]

*Looks at her Social Security card with fear, wondering if it has a secret videotaping device in it*

Oh, and if Obama works for Wall Street :lol: :lol: , he's going to have to find another job that pays better. They're broke.

[thylacine]

People are opposed to a national ID because during the End Times, everyone must have a number, or will be assigned a number... something like that.

[Eddie7]

People are opposed to a national ID because during the End Times, everyone must have a number, or will be assigned a number... something like that.

Can't say I've ever heard that argument against cards over here. Doesn't really surprise me from the US though.

[Sally]

But the point is that in the US, there is already a national ID. Everyone must have a Social Security card from birth. When a birth certificate is applied for, the state where the child is born sends info to the feds and they issue the SS card.

I haven't noticed anything horrible happening yet, except for Bush's 8 years, and that's over.

[Eddie7]

Those of us against the scheme here though aren't necessarily opposed to the principle of a card, just the nature of the proposed one.

Something akin to a driving licence that has a picture, name and address on would be fine.

Something that holds fifty pieces of information, contains biometric information, has compulsion to carry and costs a fortune is not.

Edit: And yes, we already have National Insurance cards with a name and number on.

[Inevitable]

*honestly has no idea why people are so opposed to ID cards*

You're okay with fingerprinting and collecting DNA of everyone in the country?

You're okay with having to carry a card that includes more than fifty pieces of personal information?

You're okay with the idea that you'll be fined for not carrying your card or not informing the government of any changes in your life?

You're okay with the government having this much data about each person in one database given their track record with personal information?

You're okay with the billions that will be spent on this given there is no clear benefit for it?

Fair enough then.

Except, to a degree, the third one, yes.

[Eddie7]

May I ask why?

[LimeTreeArbour]

id love to think that obama was a socialist and id love to think brown is a socialist but theyre not - its not the way of the world

i think britain is a country still in the transition of going from socialism to capitalism - and it only seems like labour are inches left of the tories these days

i find it baffling that the so-called most powerful country in the world has a system of giving people their tab on the way out of hospital - if thats ever the case over here im emigrating to somewhere where they dont

[Eddie7]

Labour are left of the Tories?

[LimeTreeArbour]

Labour are left of the Tories?

i dont even know any more

i cant bring myself to vote for either of them

are the raving loonies still going?

[Eddie7]

Yes, but they hardly seem to stand anywhere.

[Inevitable]

May I ask why?

Why not?

I honestly don't see what the problem is.

[Eddie7]

Fair enough. You don't see a problem.

Hence why I'm asking you what the positives are.

[Inevitable]

Fair enough. You don't see a problem.

Hence why I'm asking you what the positives are.

Much greater security. Easier to uphold age related laws (alcohol, smoking, films, games).

[Eddie7]

How is security increased?

How can it make age laws easier to uphold than with any form of ID that already exists?

Are those things really worth spending billions, interviewing, fingerprinting and taking DNA from everyone and then charging each person £90 for the pleasure?

[Inevitable]

How is security increased?

How can it make age laws easier to uphold than with any form of ID that already exists?

Are those things really worth spending billions, interviewing, fingerprinting and taking DNA from everyone and then charging each person £90 for the pleasure?

Massive database for authorities to use to track down criminals. Current forms of ID are generally limited to Passport and Driving License. Not everyone has one of the latter and I doubt many people walk around with the former all the time.

I certainly don't.

[Næt.]

I'm not a criminal; I don't need to be 'tracked down'.

[Eddie7]

Massive database for authorities to use to track down criminals. Current forms of ID are generally limited to Passport and Driving License. Not everyone has one of the latter and I doubt many people walk around with the former all the time.

I certainly don't.

Why should I, as a law abiding member of society, have to prove who I am to anyone at anytime?

[Vampireseal]

People are opposed to a national ID because during the End Times, everyone must have a number, or will be assigned a number... something like that.

I heard this all the time in the South. It has something to do with some line in Revelations. How it translates into Social Security Cards has never been quite explained to me.

[Screech]

I personally think Obama is trying to do the right thing. I like him as a person, but I don't like the direction he's taking the country in. He's just continuing what the Bush administration started, after changing a few key words and shipping the Guantanamo prisoners elsewhere for the same treatment or worse. Oh, and he moved the war from one country which we almost had fixed to another one which Soviet Russia couldn't beat back in the day (although admittedly we were partially responsible for that, thanks to the good work of the CIA).

[Sally]

Why should I, as a law abiding member of society, have to prove who I am to anyone at anytime?

That question has been asked from time immemorial and answers come down to a combination of "If you break the law, we want to be able to track you down" and "We want to be able to tax you to pay for societal services." Neither of which are terrible reasons, to my viewpoint. However, libertarians don't like either answer, I realize.

[Screech]

Why should I, as a law abiding member of society, have to prove who I am to anyone at anytime?

That question has been asked from time immemorial and answers come down to a combination of "If you break the law, we want to be able to track you down" and "We want to be able to tax you to pay for societal services." Neither of which are terrible reasons, to my viewpoint. However, libertarians don't like either answer, I realize.

It's also an easy way for them to tell if I'm Jewish, or black, or gay. If for some reason they decide to start depriving people of personal liberty, it makes the process much, much easier. If you don't already have a tracking system in place, it makes it harder for them to round people up, but if you already have RFID chips implanted in everyone with poison capsules so they can stop dangerous criminals, there's no way to hide.

Of course, that's the paranoid reason, and many people don't like it.

[Eddie7]

Why should I, as a law abiding member of society, have to prove who I am to anyone at anytime?

That question has been asked from time immemorial and answers come down to a combination of "If you break the law, we want to be able to track you down" and "We want to be able to tax you to pay for societal services." Neither of which are terrible reasons, to my viewpoint. However, libertarians don't like either answer, I realize.

I kind of agree, but it's all about balance. I've already said that a simple ID card with basic information and no compulsion to carry is absolutely fine.

I just see a card where everyone has be interviewed, fingerprinted and have a DNA sample taken, an absolutely ton of personal data stored it and at a ridiculous cost to the person to be more than a little intrusive. And while the government of today may be benign enough, who is it to say that ones decades from now will be?

[Shadow girl]

Honestly, what is all the hate for Obe about? There are some srsly wacky claims knocking around; he's the anti-christ, he's a muslim, he'll institute a 'black empire'. He's a fascist, he's a socialist, he has a baby-killing agenda.

He is one of them do-goodie liberals.

Yet people think hes like the freakin messiah (As Rush Limbaugh calls him).

It is odd that the people who call him a messiah are Republicans.

Many in sarcasm.

Ever notice that his intituals are B.O. makes sense because he stinks at his job. LOL!!!!!

[BunnyK.]

Honestly, what is all the hate for Obe about? There are some srsly wacky claims knocking around; he's the anti-christ, he's a muslim, he'll institute a 'black empire'. He's a fascist, he's a socialist, he has a baby-killing agenda.

He is one of them do-goodie liberals.

Yet people think hes like the freakin messiah (As Rush Limbaugh calls him).

It is odd that the people who call him a messiah are Republicans.

Many in sarcasm.

Ever notice that his intituals are B.O. makes seance because he stinks at his job. LOL!!!!!

The funny thing is, those same Republicans making fun of Obama and holding parties (whose name reminds one vaguely of obscene sexual acts) - were the same Republicans that used to scream "TREASON!!!" at Democrats for showing any sign of dissent with the policies of their darling Bush.

Hypocrisy is the way of the world. *sigh*