Can anyone give me hope?

[Sally]

We don't deserve abuse, either. :(

I've read most of this thread, and I'm stopped by the sentence above. Abuse is a strong word; it is usually used in cases where someone is physically injured or has been subjected to constant, severe emotional abuse. A marriage partner not wanting to or refusing to have sex with his/her partner should not be defined as "abuse." Such a situation may make you very unhappy and frustrated but you're not being abused. Let's not water down strong words by using them where they don't fit; there's too much of that in the language already.

Are you sexual? I'm new enough around here that I don't know.

If not, then I ask you to try to understand that the situation goes well beyond mere sadness and frustration. Frustration is wanting something and not getting it now. Sadness is unhappiness, an unpleasant but temporary emotion.

Denial of sex to a sexual spouse goes well beyond either.

I'm asexual, but I don't know what difference that would make. We're both human, and I would assume we both understand the definition of the term "abuse."

"Denying sex to a sexual spouse" is not the right term. The sexual spouse isn't being denied sex; the asexual spouse does not want to have sex with that sexual spouse. That doesn't mean the sexual spouse can't have sex. It's a matter of what the asexual spouse chooses to do with *their* body. If they choose not to have sex with their partner, then it's up to the partner to choose to do whatever they want with *their* body.

I'm not abusing anyone by not allowing them access to my body, no matter what the circumstances. It's *my body*.

Be as frustrated, unhappy, sad, whatever as you feel you must, but don't call what someone else DOESN'T DO SEXUALLY WITH YOU abuse.

[Shockwave]

I would never, ever walk away from my 'love of my life' again over sex, the lack of it, or anything else. Love - the real kind, especially - is so exceedingly rare and hard to find. Think hard before you turn away. I have every faith, hope and confidence that you can find a compromise that works for both of you, if you're both willing.

I find this interesting, because I've never had a hard time finding someone to love. This is a rabbit trail, but is love hard to find for you because you don't find most people lovable? Or is it just one of those things?

This has been my experience as well. Finding someone else has always been pretty easy (it's the sticking with one person that has been difficult) for me.

[AVENCakes]

I would never, ever walk away from my 'love of my life' again over sex, the lack of it, or anything else. Love - the real kind, especially - is so exceedingly rare and hard to find. Think hard before you turn away. I have every faith, hope and confidence that you can find a compromise that works for both of you, if you're both willing.

I find this interesting, because I've never had a hard time finding someone to love. This is a rabbit trail, but is love hard to find for you because you don't find most people lovable? Or is it just one of those things?

This has been my experience as well. Finding someone else has always been pretty easy (it's the sticking with one person that has been difficult) for me.

I've only fell in one with love person, despite dating many. Some people just don't fall in love easily.

[sexless sexual]

Sally, RDraconian, Reptilelover, et al:

Whether you can understand it or not, the denial of sex in a marriage can be and all too often is a form of abuse, and I do not use the term lightly. Marriage counselors, therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists are all familiar with the phenomenon; it is not only asexuals who withhold sex from their partners. It has a lot to do with how the denial is made and handled. I have been subject to sexual abuse. I have been subject to emotional abuse before I met and married my husband. I do understand what I am saying.

That said, I am sorry I brought it up. The more I go through the other threads (as opposed to the ones geared towards sexual partners) the more I understand what a red flag the word could be for the denizens of this site. Since you do not have the experience of the sexual in such a situation, it is understandable that you would doubt me. Please accept my apology. And let's stop this heated argument.

We're supposed to be learning from one another, here. This forum, in particular, is supposed to be for the support of us sexuals caught unawares in a world you have known for some time.

Let's get back to the topic, ok? How to help this particular sexual (Needshope) who is in the lucky position of dealing with these issues before she commits to a marriage, rather than 15-20 years in. And how sexuals who wish to save both their marriages and their sanity can make it work with an asexual.

[Cheerio_Koroke]

I think the fundamental lack of understanding here can be traced back to the underlying meanings that sex has for sexual people that it lacks for asexuals. For most sexual people, it is my understanding as an asexual that they feel there are other problems going on if there isn't willing sex. There's a lot of self-esteem attached to sex for sexuals, too, I've heard.

To cut out that type of an emotional read as well as what is a pleasurable physical experience for sexuals would be very difficult for a married couple unless they are completely honest with each other and are willing to remain completely open and honest with each other and not avoid issues. If they're willing to compromise and if they can both be happy with the compromise.

I think that, if you feel you can do this with your boyfriend, then have a completely open conversation with all the stuff you've expressed concern about here. If you guys are going to understand each other, it needs to happen. Complete exploration of the subject, and not dropping it until every question you both have are satisfied.

I must warn, though, that I'm an only child with divorced parents who has been in a grand total of 2 relationships that were both extremely unhealthy in their nature. I just think that complete honesty and compromise, as well as asserting things when you feel you'd be unhappy without them is a very fundamental thing to any relationship. The lack of assertion and openness was why my parents split up, anyway, after 16 years of being very stable. A bunch of little things that they compromised too far on just blew up.

[grateful!]

To clarify ... Love is a pretty individual experience, isn't it? I can only speak from my experience, but from that perspective, that 'love of my life' type of love in which Needhope refers to is hard to find. If it wasn't, I would guess that we would likely (at least mostly) all be happily partnered, wouldn't we?

My point, I hope, is more in response to Needhope's struggles. Given my own experience, I simply think that finding love at the level to which she refers to it here is not a simple process, and if other core aspects of the relationship are right, perhaps it might be useful to really think through the possibilities for compromising issues of a/sexuality between partners.

As an aside, the sort of accusatory tone about whether or not I find most people lovable is a bit offensive, though I'm sure you didn't mean it to be. It's lovely for you that you love so easily. That has not been my experience, particularly at the level of really wanting to build a life and partnership with someone.

Hope that clears it up!

[happylife]

I think that she is a very lucky person. Thank God for that! It is really frustrating to hear the heartbreaking stories from sexuals in committed but unfulfilling relationships especially when I feel I have got nothing to do to help them. When I first read Needhope's post, I instantly sympathized with her because I could sense the agony she seemed to be suffering that may have resulted from her dear love for her partner or dilemma she was thrown into for that love.

It does sound like she loves this man, which is probably why she may have been so perplexed and frustrated that she had to come visit this website and even write a post.(There may be a lot of sexuals reading posts and threads to gain some insight but there have not been many sexuals who have actually started threads.) But the good thing is that she was lucky enough to know about her partner's sexual orientation quite early--many of us may know how little is known about Asexuality now and that many (potential) asexuals might be living their lives with no word in their hands to describe themselves properly--and to have an opportunity to make her choice to prevent herself from getting into a mess.

I hope she meets someone she can love with all her body and soul. I do not want any sexual person to be emotionally and spiritually abused. Before being asexual or sexual, we are all humans so we are emotional animals. Asexuals could do or say mean things to sexual partners when they are stressed over sex. If this happens, it would be extremely difficult for the sexuals with hurting soul to be as calm and gentle as they wished to be. Both would be scratching each other's hearts while scratching their own. I do not think it best to try to persuade or encourage her to stick with him because it seems that she knows that the amount of sex her partner is going to give is not enough for her to be emotionally and physically fulfilled and happy. Therefore, I would rather give her loving hugs and support. And wish her happiness with all my heart.

[Sally]

frustrating

heartbreaking

agony

suffering

dilemma she was thrown into

perplexed

frustrated emotionally

spiritually abused

Asexuals could do or say mean things to sexual partners

extremely difficult

hurting soul

All this victimhood because someone doesn't want to have sex. Good heavens. Get over it and find someone who does want to have sex. People all over the world have really bad problems; this isn't one of them.

[reptilelover]

frustrating

heartbreaking

agony

suffering

dilemma she was thrown into

perplexed

frustrated emotionally

spiritually abused

Asexuals could do or say mean things to sexual partners

extremely difficult

hurting soul

All this victimhood because someone doesn't want to have sex. Good heavens. Get over it and find someone who does want to have sex. People all over the world have really bad problems; this isn't one of them.

Yeah, think about how the partner (be they sexual or asexual) who doesn’t want sex and is pressured into having it feels like. That’s what abuse is… (trying to make someone have sex against their will). Why it’s the very epitome of what the definition means.

And yeah, it’s not about denial of sex here, it’s about not being willing to have sex (in general, not just with partner in particular) anymore. You think the partner who doesn’t want sex “witholds” sex with intention to hurt the other person? I’d say it was abuse only if the partner says something along the lines of: you are too fat, to ugly, it’s your problem, I’d be attracted if you did this or that etc. If they simply say they do not want to have sex anymore then that’s not abuse.

I realise it is tough and all, but still if it is that damaging to you then you have to make that clear to your partner (not leave it to guesswork) and consider the option of divorce/leaving the relationship. This accusations of abuse simply do not fit, unless under abuse you also include “auto abuse” (when you yourself are abusing you yourself).

I mean really isn’t it a bit strange to say someone is abusing you because you love that person and want to have sex with them and they do not want to have sex with you? And saying it’s their fault for the hurt you feel? Saying it’s their fault for the relationship braking? I can understand hurt due to miscommunication, not understanding what the other is saying. But abuse? Yeah, I simply can’t wrap my mind around that. It is a very callous thing to say and accuse the other of doing.

And greatful!, welcome to AVEN. :) It’s rare (at least on AVEN) that we get sexuals (or even hypersexuals) who don’t seem to mind (at least that’s what I gather from your post ) to compromise having sex in order to be with the loved one.

[Guest disjointed]

Can anyone give me hope?

not really.

Many of the answers you already know but because they are not the answers you want you seek other opinions in the hope the answers will change.

Truth is with your head..you already know the answers

[< retired >]

...or feeling like we are at odds with each other all the time in our needs.

It's very rare that two people agree perfectly on everything all the time. So, there will always be the need to compromise. That said, you should avoid getting into a relationship where the compromises you need to make cause you unbearable discomfort. This may be such a relationship - only you can know.

Welcome to AVEN! :cake:

[AVENCakes]

How to help this particular sexual (Needshope) who is in the lucky position of dealing with these issues before she commits to a marriage, rather than 15-20 years in.

Okay, I'm sick of arguing whether or not it's abuse, so let's focus on the big thing: You feel you've been in an abusive relationship for 15-20 years, fully aware that it is abusive. Now realize that he's not going to change, it's just how he is and you can't compromise without (in your opinion) "abusing" him as well, so basically you're stuck being abused. Get. A. Divorce. If you're being abused, get out. It's not that hard and I can't figure out why people seem to struggle iwth the concept.

Asexuals could do or say mean things to sexual partners when they are stressed over sex.

So can the sexuals. This is hardly a one way street- everything one side can do, the other side can.

[Guest disjointed]

How to help this particular sexual (Needshope) who is in the lucky position of dealing with these issues before she commits to a marriage, rather than 15-20 years in.

Okay, I'm sick of arguing whether or not it's abuse, so let's focus on the big thing: You feel you've been in an abusive relationship for 15-20 years, fully aware that it is abusive. Now realize that he's not going to change, it's just how he is and you can't compromise without (in your opinion) "abusing" him as well, so basically you're stuck being abused. Get. A. Divorce. If you're being abused, get out. It's not that hard and I can't figure out why people seem to struggle iwth the concept.

Asexuals could do or say mean things to sexual partners when they are stressed over sex.

So can the sexuals. This is hardly a one way street- everything one side can do, the other side can.

I think most people who have not been in a truly abusive relationship find it difficult to understand why the abused would stay there and why they would think "it's easy just leave"

In context it's like telling an Asexual "it's just a phase your going through"

Abusers will at first pour love into the intended victim and make them feel as though they are the most special person ever.(and before you start, it isn't just emotional wrecks that fall for this,clever strong people do too).

Then over time they damage your confidence to the point where you genuinely feel that everyone else hates you, thinks your ugly and no one would have you. With the years of abuse as a basis and bedrock of that underlying grooming it isn't that too difficult to understand why it works.

in the end you feel this person damages me, but they love me and no one else could or would. that is why so few leave until the penny suddenly drops with a "that's the last straw momment" or they leave in a body bag.

truth is the abuser will never change and the abused will never either, until the abused chooses to do so

[BunnyK.]

As an aside, the sort of accusatory tone about whether or not I find most people lovable is a bit offensive, though I'm sure you didn't mean it to be. It's lovely for you that you love so easily. That has not been my experience, particularly at the level of really wanting to build a life and partnership with someone.

Hope that clears it up!

I guess that did come off a little wrong, though I truly meant it as an honest question.

All this victimhood because someone doesn't want to have sex. Good heavens. Get over it and find someone who does want to have sex. People all over the world have really bad problems; this isn't one of them.

Back off, Sally. Until you've been in the situation, you don't know how much it actually DOES hurt. And while I agree that if it's that awful, one should just get the hell out of Dodge......THAT'S when you run into wonderful people like some of the asexuals on this site who tell you that it's just so selfish of you to leave for a silly reason like no sex (and if you think this site is the only place that will shame you like that, you're so wrong). That's when you run into your church telling you that there's only one reason for divorce and sexlessness ain't it. That's when you are horribly torn because you feel like part of you is dying, but you just love your partner so much that leaving would be like dying too. It IS hurtful, it IS a perplexing dilemma, it IS a bad situation. And yes, we could all live in Sudan and be threatened with rape on a regular basis, but what point does that have here? Shall I come remind you of that next time you complain about your car breaking down? It doesn't change the fact that it's a problem.

And while I agree that the simple fact of not having sex with your spouse isn't "abuse", per se, the minute it crosses the line into things like "you're a pig for wanting sex so much" or "just deal with it on your own, but if I ever catch you cheating we're done, and by the way, no porn either, you gross animal" - then I DO see it as abuse. Just as I don't see just wanting sex from an asexual as abuse, but if it started to be "have sex with me right now or I won't talk to you for the rest of the day", that would be borderline abusive to me.

[sexless sexual]

Thank you, BunnyK. You've expressed it better than I have, probably because right now I'm hurting very much. I'm trying to work this out, and right now my husband isn't. He seems to think if we ignore it, it will go away. No, that is not abusive -- hurtful, yes.

Sally, do you have any idea how arrogant and dismissive "Get over it and find someone who does want sex" is? Just because I am a sexual with a high sex drive does not mean I give my body easily to just any man. Surely you can understand that! After all, this is where I can empathize with the asexual facing sex -- when you do not want it, it's an awful prospect. And just what do you think my husband would feel if I were to do so? Are you really suggesting I substitute his pain for mine? And how dare you, who have no idea what the experience of sexuality is, judge the level of my, the OP's or any other sexual's pain?

Besides, "get over" what? My inborn sexuality? Would you as blithely say to my husband "get over it and give your wife sex?"

DRaconis, I have not said the the asexual married to the sexual deliberately denies sex. The denial of sex for the sexual, however, is still the result. The sexual is denied sex. Kindly, unkindly, deliberately or inadvertently, the denial still exists.

And I have said the abuse comes with how the denial is done, not that it is done at all. I am in no way claiming that all asexuals are abusing their sexual partners. I am merely trying to get you folks to understand that the hurt, and therefore the potential for abuse, goes both ways! Some sexuals throughout this forum have described what I would consider abusive situations.

I tried to be rational, and I tried to end this peacefully. Now I am angry. I'm not going to debate this any more. Instead, go read my other posts. Particularly, read what I posted in soneofzeal's "To Partners" thread. Then, when you are as ready to put yourself in the sexual's shoes as I am trying to put myself in the asexual's shoes ... we can talk.

If you've got constructive suggestions for me and other sexuals in marriage with an asexual, I'm all eyes.

[sexless sexual]

@ Needhope:

Taking my own advice to get back to the topic ...

Just read over this whole thread. It seems to me that something has been implied, but I don't know if it's been stated. Let me try:

Is there hope? Yes. How important sex is in a marriage depends on how important it is to the partners. If sex is not important to you, then there is much hope.

Marriage is so much more. And, at least in my experience, it is worth every moment of the work involved. And from your description, it sounds as though you and your would-be mate are on a path to share that. So, yes. There is hope.

However, you need to be very honest with yourself. Each of you. The asexual cannot merely assume that he/she can deliver sex if necessary. The sexual must not pretend sex is less important than it is. You can only be as honest to each other as you each are to yourselves.

This is where most communication falls down. Especially early in a relationship, when limerance is high, and our own hearts trick us into believing what our rational brain would know to be false -- or at least, exaggerated.

This is why I suggested couples counseling.

I don't know if I would have married my husband if we had been sufficiently honest with ourselves to really understand what we were about to do. But, if I had married him with that knowledge, I would hurt a lot less right now, and we both would have had fewer bad moments in the last 15 years.

Have we wished you well as you struggle with this?

[Sally]

Just because I am a sexual with a high sex drive does not mean I give my body easily to just any man. Surely you can understand that! ...

Besides, "get over" what? My inborn sexuality? Would you as blithely say to my husband "get over it and give your wife sex?"

My constructive suggestion was framed impatiently because I have read extensively on AVEN many sexuals' complaints and pleas and was married to and involved with several sexuals in relationships for 40 years. I wasn't born yesterday and haven't been cloistered in the "asexual world", so believe me, I've heard sexuals' complaints and attempted to deal with their discomfort personally. In one instance I was successful; in the other, I wasn't, but luckily we have now become good friends.

I'll say it again, trying to be nice. Here's the new version:

It seems like you are thoroughly unhappy, and there may be no solution in the relationship with your husband, since he does not want sex. You do not have to remain in such a relationship if it is hurting you and there can't be a compromise between you two. Thus, unless you want to continue your emotional unhappiness and physical discomfort, you could consider seeking a relationship with someone both emotionally and sexually compatible.

That's the hope I can see for you.

[sexless sexual]

That's the hope I can see for you.

Thank you. This may, in the end, be our option. We consider it the court of last resort. Another extreme measure is to find sex outside my marriage while maintaining the marriage. I'm unsure about this; my husband is sure he won't like it. So it is second to divorce as the last resort.

We have 15 years invested in this marriage. As I said, in many vital ways, we are soulmates. We have built a life and a business together. We truly love one another. Substituting one horrible pain for another does not seem particularly hopeful.

Instead, I hope we can work things other ways, as I described in my "To Partners" post. Right now, though, I think both my husband and I are overwhelmed by this. It's been brewing for years, but only really surfaced to be acknowledged 5 days ago. The hurt for us both is particularly raw right now. I reach out in my hurt; he withdraws. Not ideal, but it's the way we are, and has nothing to do with our sexual orientation.

I'm struggling. And I just don't have enough energy left over to deal with a lot of heat here. My apologies for my sensitivity.

[Other]

I am a sexual person, and the love of my life has just told me that he is asexual. Up to now, he has been the man of my dreams. He is a wonderful father figure to my children (I am divorced) and a friend and romantic partner (affection) to me.

I have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions from anger to sadness to hopelessness to remembering how much I love him. I do not want to be without him, but is there any hope? It is not like I can turn off my sex drive. He says if we marry, he is willing to have sex some of the time to make me happy, that he is not turned off by it. But can I be happy that way? Sex is not the only thing that is important in a relationship, but I never dreamed of considering marriage where I might only have sex a few times a year or being married to someone who does not share my feelings.

I am afraid. I am afraid that I will become frustrated and find the situation intolerable no matter how much I love him and want to make it work. I am afraid that he will get bored with trying to satisfy my sexual needs and not want to bother anymore. I love him so much; otherwise I would not even be considering this. I cannot look into the future and feel like I am going into a prison of always lacking something or feeling like we are at odds with each other all the time in our needs. I don't even know where to start trying to sort this out. Any support would be appreciated. Thank you so much!

Hi Needhope.

This is the first post I think I've made on this helpful site although I registered a while ago. However, your posting has inspired me to chip in as quietly as I can before slinking out.

Re marriage: run. Seriously. Your partner sounds like a really good guy for at least warning you before getting married and if you love him you may decide to stay together. However, my heartfelt opinion (such as it is) is that if you love both him AND yourself you shouldn't lock yourself into something like marriage, especially if you are already feeling such fear. You may have good intentions and ultimately think you can handle this, but can you be so sure that you can deal with such a feeling of loss (yes...I'm sorry, I said it...for sexuals such as myself a lack of physical intimacy is a loss) two years down the line? Or five years? Ten?

If I could give a message to a sexual contemplating marriage to an asexual it would be this: you will be told to reach a compromise, but ask yourself how this can happen if your partner truly doesn't "get" that a lack of physical intimacy that meets your needs is a real problem. Compromise for him/her means reluctantly engaging in what for him/her is an unpleasant act every once in a while. I believe that compromise should mean that although both sides lose something in negotiataion, overall the balance for both partners should be positive. Please note that I'm not saying that sexuals should force their asexual partner to do something s/he doesn't want to do...you should just ask your asexual partner to recognise that it's a problem for you and to love you enough to help you work out a truly fair solution.

Finally: of course you should take my opinion with a whole mountain of salt as this is your life and not anyone else's. I am also not one to talk as I didn't follow my own gut instinct so many years ago whilst I still had my youth and confidence. I just wish that ten years ago someone would have told me what I'm telling you now. Don't get me wrong - I love my asexual husband but feel empty.

I apologise if I ruffle any feathers on the site as that is truly not my intention. I am simply speaking from where my life is at the moment and from my heart, wrong as it may be.

Good luck, Needhope.

[sexless sexual]

Finally: of course you should take my opinion with a whole mountain of salt as this is your life and not anyone else's. I am also not one to talk as I didn't follow my own gut instinct so many years ago whilst I still had my youth and confidence. I just wish that ten years ago someone would have told me what I'm telling you now. Don't get me wrong - I love my asexual husband but feel empty.

Hugs. I quite understand.

Empty with him/empty without him. And he just doesn't have the conceptual universe to completely understand, so even the most loving asexual husband ...

I'll be sharing what we work out as we do. Maybe together all us sexuals in love with asexuals can work it out. Enough, anyway.

[Jazmin]

Until you've been in the situation, you don't know how much it actually DOES hurt....That's when you are horribly torn because you feel like part of you is dying, but you just love your partner so much that leaving would be like dying too. It IS hurtful, it IS a perplexing dilemma, it IS a bad situation.

Can I just say that I sympathize completely with sexuals. Of course it is horribly hard for someone sexual to be in such a situation.

BUT the thing that I'd like sexuals to realise is that sexuals aren't the only ones to feel that way. Asexuals also feel HURT. Well, romantic asexuals anyway. In fact, from my personal experience, what BunnyK has written up there pretty much describes EXACTLY the way I've been feeling for almost a year.

I don't think many sexual people realise how much it hurts when you realise you like someone who likes you. Especially if the person you like is sexual. I'd want to hug him, be affectionate, even considered starting a relationship - but knowing that he was sexual I knew I couldn't. It hurts because you can't express the things you feel to them, as you don't want them to misinterpret your actions as sexual. It hurts because you know you could be hurting them by not doing anything - not touching them or hugging them as much. They think that you're being distant and cold. But in reality, it's because you don't want to lead them on or raise their hopes up. Inside, you want to be close to them...but you can't. That is painful.

And what makes it worse is that you both really enjoy one another's company. Every time I was with him we'd laugh and talk about all sorts of things for ages. At the end of semester we hung around chatting...for 6 hours - I didn't even realise it was that long until I checked my watch because it didn't feel that long at all. We had so much to say to each other. In the weeks - yes, weeks - afterwards though, I felt like CRAP. Hollow. Empty. Torn. Because that was when I realised I really did like him. Granted, I had felt like that after being around him a couple of times in the year already, but it never hit me as hard before. But I knew I couldn't do anything about it because it wouldn't work out. And I gotta tell you, the associated emotions that came with it sucked. I never want to feel like that again. I found myself almost wishing he never started talking to me that day we met, because then we wouldn't have become friends. But at the same time I can't pull myself away. Every time he asked me to hang out I didn't have the heart to say no. Because we were friends afterall. But don't get me wrong, I'm not boo-hooing, because at the same time I also realise he probably felt hurt, rejected, etc, by me as well.

And the thing is, for me, as an asexual, I don't instantly start liking someone or 'getting the hots for them' just by meeting them once at a party or wherever (like some of my sexual friends have told me they have experienced). It takes a long time for me to start really liking someone. I have to be friends with them and get to know them. But once I start liking them, it's not just a fleeting feeling that will go away the instant another good-looking guy walks passed - since I don't experience sexual attraction that way. Which makes everything hurt a whole lot more. Because the other person is sexual, and since the majority of society is sexual, it's relatively easier for them to find another person they like. Kind of like, you feel like they mean a lot to you...but to them you probably don't mean as much since they have so many other options out there.

And before any sexual accuses me of leading on a poor sexual person - just know, I didn't. He was the one who liked me first. I didn't even know what asexuality was, let alone that I was asexual when I met him. HE was the one who made me realise I wasn't like everyone else i.e. sexual. I kept things firmly as 'just friends' right from the beginning. He had the option of going away because I made it obvious that I wasn't sexual - I didn't flirt, didn't do anything that would mislead him into thinking I'd want a relationship. But he chose to remain friends with me. I think that a part of him was still hoping that maybe I would come around eventually.

But even after I started to like him I kept it as friends. Because I knew he was sexual and I didn't want to mislead him. However, I'm telling you, that KILLS inside. From the outside though, especially from his point of view as a sexual, he probably thought I was hurtful, even cold, since I didn't respond to his hinting that he liked me, and just treated him like a good friend. I did so because I knew I'd hurt him MORE if I agreed to be with him. I think what hurts most is that he won't ever know that I didn't not give a damn about him, that I did care about him, that he did mean something to me.

So sexuals...just know.

[Sally]

Thank you, Jazmin. You've described exactly what many of us feel. The depth of the hurt is the same, but it's so hard to get sexuals to understand we're not just "withholding" -- we're trying to protect both them and ourselves from disappointment and misunderstanding. But too often that is misunderstood also.

[sexless sexual]

Jazmin, that was very expressive. It must, indeed, be difficult for asexuals who know their orientation in a world where so few people they meet are also asexual. Thank you for articulating it.

Sexuals generally do not fall in love quickly, either. Attraction can happen very quickly, obviously. And, yes, love at first sight does happen, but hardly as often as media and fiction suggest. The kind of love that leads to a long-term relationship, like a marriage, does not happen over night. Marriage is far too difficult to stand up to anything less than a full, knowing commitment.

In my case, the commitment was already made, and we have 15 years of investing in the marriage, before either of us truly understood that asexuality existed. That kind of surprise ... well, it is cataclysmic.

It doesn't take away the hurt, but knowing yourself well enough to understand your asexuality is actually a better place to be than in ignorance. It means that any relationship you do form will start out honest, and both partners can better assess what they can, and cannot, promise.

It's hard to communicate something you don't know about! And communication is so important to any relationship.

Hugs.

[santanico]

And while I agree that the simple fact of not having sex with your spouse isn't "abuse", per se, the minute it crosses the line into things like "you're a pig for wanting sex so much" or "just deal with it on your own, but if I ever catch you cheating we're done, and by the way, no porn either, you gross animal" - then I DO see it as abuse.

This is indeed a terrible situation. So, I see that sexless_sexual might have actually two problems: Problem 1: Unfulfilled desire for sex with her partner. Problem 2: Being horribly hurt by her partner, but still loving him so much, that she can't break up. From the tone in her posts I understand that problem 2 might even be the worse problem.

Obviously there is no solution for problem 1. But problem 2 might be solveable. For instance by talking to her partner, by counseling or even by .... breaking up. Being so much hurt sound to me like a serious reason to break up. I still don't really understand, how can they be the perfect soulmates when she gets that much hurt by her partner.

[Astryda]

I would never, ever walk away from my 'love of my life' again over sex, the lack of it, or anything else. Love - the real kind, especially - is so exceedingly rare and hard to find. Think hard before you turn away. I have every faith, hope and confidence that you can find a compromise that works for both of you, if you're both willing.

I find this interesting, because I've never had a hard time finding someone to love. This is a rabbit trail, but is love hard to find for you because you don't find most people lovable? Or is it just one of those things?

I think it depends on what Your own personal definition of love is. grateful! said about true love which is hard to find, I guess she meant the love for the only one person who You can love till the end of Your life, the one You would give up Your life for. The one with who You have the most special bond You can imagine, etc. In my opinion there's only one person in the whole entire world who I can love like that. If grateful!'s definition of love is similar to mine, it's true it's hard to find person like that...

Of course I love my friends so much and have special bonds with all of them, but the kind of love I'm talking about is different...

I don't know if or how much no having sex with their partners hurts sexuals, but try to imagine how much being raped hurts (even sexual people). I guess it's similar feeling to this what asexual person feels while he/she is pushing to have sex (and he/she is repulsed by it), especially if the one who is pushing is the person who is beloved by asexual... It's like being "betrayed" by the best friend who You trust and suddenly he hurts You...

What a sad topic guys...

[sexless sexual]

Being so much hurt sound to me like a serious reason to break up. I still don't really understand, how can they be the perfect soulmates when she gets that much hurt by her partner.

Hmmm. I think you've conflated two different points I've been trying to make into one.

First point: My own situation, where what was in equilibrium is no longer in equilibrium, and I'm working my way through it. This is raw, in that it just happened, and my coping strategies are as yet undefined. Not having sex is no longer an option; but neither is it decided that I can't have it with my husband. Only he can answer that one, and he needs some counseling to figure it out. Then we'll see how far we get together. For a while, when this thread was talking about the sexual's pain, my husband was not addressing anything, but assuming we would continue on. He has since agreed that we need a better solution, and is now working with me, to the best of his ability, given he is not as introspective or communicative as I. During that period of not working with me, I was very, very hurt, indeed. In almost every other way, however, we are well matched; not just in what we have in common, but also how we complement one another's strengths and weaknesses. Together we are more than either of us could be alone.

Second point: Not all men -- or women, for that matter -- are as intrinsically kind as my husband. Refusal of sex often becomes a power play, and power plays definitely can get into abusive territory. In my case, it was not deliberate, but the lack of sex was a major part of my depression, and major depression is no joke. This is one of the reasons my husband wants to work with me; he, too, would rather I NOT go there again. A spouse who would simply dismiss it as the spouse's problem ... that's abusive, IMO. I think you said you, too, suffer from depression. Depression can actually kill. It certainly causes illness and physical pain. Other sexuals, in other threads as well as this one, have described other, more serious abuses. When Sally was dismissive of even the possibility, I took issue.

[santanico]

Second point: Not all men -- or women, for that matter -- are as intrinsically kind as my husband. Refusal of sex often becomes a power play, and power plays definitely can get into abusive territory. In my case, it was not deliberate, but the lack of sex was a major part of my depression, and major depression is no joke. This is one of the reasons my husband wants to work with me; he, too, would rather I NOT go there again. A spouse who would simply dismiss it as the spouse's problem ... that's abusive, IMO. I think you said you, too, suffer from depression. Depression can actually kill. It certainly causes illness and physical pain.

I'm glad to hear that your husband is ready to approach your problems together with you.

[DMG]

If it doesn't feel right; don't get married. Simple. Marriage is a very big thing, you are committing your life to that person, and agreeing wholeheartedly to love them in good times and bad. Making love isn't just sex; it's kissing, holding your partners hand, giving them a hug, anything that makes them and you feel loved and creates moments of love. If you're not able to compromise with your partner and view sex as the main driving force of a marriage, then you need to be honest with him and tell him so. Good luck.

[santanico]

If you're not able to compromise with your partner and view sex as the main driving force of a marriage, then you need to be honest with him and tell him so. Good luck.

Obviously she already did just that and - surprisingly - it didn't change her and her husbands dilemma.

[sexless sexual]

If you're not able to compromise with your partner and view sex as the main driving force of a marriage, then you need to be honest with him and tell him so. Good luck.

Obviously she already did just that and - surprisingly - it didn't change her and her husbands dilemma.

Needhope -- is this the case? Have you both been very blunt and open with one another? It is very hard to do that during the limerance stage of a relationship, even for people who re-marry!

Santanico, it may simply be my own denial, but I don't think the situation is completely hopeless. In my posting in "To Sexual Partners" I mentioned how one can get what one wants/needs in different ways. The choice between two equally unacceptable possibilities is the dilemma, and the solution comes from finding more options. If you can figure out what the real need is, you sometimes can find other ways of getting it filled. The real need is often buried somewhere deep in our psyche.

On the other hand, not all dilemmas have solutions. Needhope, the folks who are telling you to run are giving you sound advice on one level: Do not fool yourself into thinking something is ok if it is not. If you think that the lack of sex could be a problem at any point, then deal with it now, don't wait for later. And if it is a deal breaker, then you have your answer.

Marriage is hard enough. It's worth absolutely every drop of sweat, but it is the single most difficult thing human beings attempt to do. You don't need additional handicaps!

Keep us posted, 'kay?