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Confusion over Asexuality


Ziffler

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First off, I am NOT posting this thread to insinuate that anyone is or is NOT asexual.

Second, I Only wish for a conversation on some things that have been rumbling around in my mind since I have been a member on Aven.

Third, If our esteemed moderator believes this thread to be too radical and threatening, then please delete it before it can do any harm. Because it is not my wish to hurt but to learn.

And Forth, I put this here, because this is the forum I use, and I believe it needs older more experienced heads discussing this topic, than less experienced heads that would tend to get HOT headed.

Is there a difference between the orientation of asexuality and the chosen lifestyle of asexuality?

And does it matter?

I know I am orientation asexual. I knew at a very young age, before puberty that sex wasn't ever going to be a part of my life. Sex and the act of sex is revolting to me. Just the image of such acts in my head sickens me. So when I found AVEN I knew it was the board for me and that I was Asexual, even though until finding AVEN I had never heard the term used for people. And since being here, I have read posts from many other asexuals of the same orientation.

I have also read many posts of asexuals that began there lives as sexual and at some point in there life they decided that sex was no longer going to be a part of their lives and began to live as an asexual. I can understand these types of asexuals also, although in my mind they are not orientation asexuals but instead lifestyle asexuals. My sister is one of these types. She was very sexual in her youth. She has had 3 husbands and has 3 children. Yet now she lives an asexual lifestyle. Her and her husband haven't had sex in a very long time. When he makes overtures, she tells him no way to take care of things himself. You would have to know my sister. She is very overpowering. But the point is, she is not asexual. She is a sexual living an asexual lifestyle. Yet if she found this site, she would probably join and post and believe that she really is an asexual, because now in her life, she hates sex.

It is my belief that this site has both types on it and that is where some of the confussion comes from when discussing asexuality and what it is and how it works and how it affects each of us.

Understand, I am NOT saying that anyone here is or is not asexual. OK?

And it is my hope that this becomes a reasoned discussion of a curious topic, and not a HOT ZONE!

Ok, I am going to shut up for now, and listen to what others have to say.

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I don't think this topic is too hot.

I think the answer goes back to the nature/nurture theories. If one feels they were born asexual, then it feels like a very natural way of being. Others believe that any orientation is influenced by both nature and nuture and indeed, their behaviour could certainly be influenced to a degree by external factors. There are yet others, because of bad experiences or plain lack of interest, who decide to lead what you call an asexual lifestyle. Would it be better to say these lifestyle changers have chosen to become celibate instead? Is it possible that their energies have re-focused to the point where thoughts of sexual desirability, sexual attractiveness, and sexual behaviour are no longer a mainstay?

There are some folks who would term themselves orientation asexual who felt they had no choice but to live a sexual lifestyle. Would their self-proclaimed asexual orientation override their past and/or present sexual behaviour?

The Common Identity model states that if you declare you are an asexual, then you are an asexual. Issues of nature, nurture, time, space, and good/bad experiences are irrelevant. Is this a good model? Should it matter why someone states they are asexual on this board?

But I agree that there are different types on this board. I go back and forth on the worry that some may be hiding behind the asexual identity and perhaps need to dig deeper (which does not mean they have to have sex). It is similar to asexuals who have tried to force themselves to be sexuals until the incongruency between feelings and behaviour became unacceptable. I think the best we can hope for is that everyone seek self-awareness and follow their true nature.

Lucinda

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First off, I am NOT posting this thread to insinuate that anyone is or is NOT asexual.

Second, I Only wish for a conversation on some things that have been rumbling around in my mind since I have been a member on Aven.

Third, If our esteemed moderator believes this thread to be too radical and threatening, then please delete it before it can do any harm. Because it is not my wish to hurt but to learn.

And Forth, I put this here, because this is the forum I use, and I believe it needs older more experienced heads discussing this topic, than less experienced heads that would tend to get HOT headed.

Is there a difference between the orientation of asexuality and the chosen lifestyle of asexuality?

And does it matter?

I know I am orientation asexual. I knew at a very young age, before puberty that sex wasn't ever going to be a part of my life. Sex and the act of sex is revolting to me. Just the image of such acts in my head sickens me. So when I found AVEN I knew it was the board for me and that I was Asexual, even though until finding AVEN I had never heard the term used for people. And since being here, I have read posts from many other asexuals of the same orientation.

I have also read many posts of asexuals that began there lives as sexual and at some point in there life they decided that sex was no longer going to be a part of their lives and began to live as an asexual. I can understand these types of asexuals also, although in my mind they are not orientation asexuals but instead lifestyle asexuals. My sister is one of these types. She was very sexual in her youth. She has had 3 husbands and has 3 children. Yet now she lives an asexual lifestyle. Her and her husband haven't had sex in a very long time. When he makes overtures, she tells him no way to take care of things himself. You would have to know my sister. She is very overpowering. But the point is, she is not asexual. She is a sexual living an asexual lifestyle. Yet if she found this site, she would probably join and post and believe that she really is an asexual, because now in her life, she hates sex.

It is my belief that this site has both types on it and that is where some of the confussion comes from when discussing asexuality and what it is and how it works and how it affects each of us.

Understand, I am NOT saying that anyone here is or is not asexual. OK?

And it is my hope that this becomes a reasoned discussion of a curious topic, and not a HOT ZONE!

Ok, I am going to shut up for now, and listen to what others have to say.

The definiton of true asexuality according to this site is not finding anyone sexually attractive. Whether or not you have ever had sex (and then gave it up or even if you still have it) is irrelevant. Based on what I have read on this site, those that have had sex in the past were never truly sexual - they were just doing what society expected. I did this (and could have won a few Oscars with my performances - lol). However, just because I "went along" with sex does not mean I really liked it and I never sought it out on my own (aka - I was never truly sexual). For asexuals there is actually no choosing to "live the asexual lifestyle". We were always living that way - sex or no sex. People who used to be truly sexual and then gave up sex or lost interest later in life are not living an "asexual lifestyle", they are simply no longer having sex. The end result for both may be the same but a former sexual who gives up sex was/is/and never will be an asexual. For me - the orientation IS the lifestyle.

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I don't think you can judge someones asexuality as orientation or chosen lifestyle based their previous behaviour.

A person may be behaving in a very sexual manner for entirely different reasons than because they want sex.

They may be wanting to gain or keep the attention of a person they find attractive in other ways than sexually. They may be 'paying the price' for the cuddles. Some may not even have been aware of their own asexuality (thinking that everyone felt the same) untill, as Lucinda put it, the incongruency between feelings and behaviour became unacceptable. At which point they may , not so much chose an asexual lifestyle as revert to true form.

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I knew at a very young age, before puberty that sex wasn't ever going to be a part of my life.

Understand, I am NOT saying that anyone here is or is not asexual. OK?

Perhaps this makes you a 'Highly Self Aware, Intuitive' asexual.

Whereas most of us (whose light shines less brightly) have had to be 4x2'd by Life's hard lessons to realise our orientation.

It is my belief that this site has both types on it and that is where some of the confussion comes from when discussing asexuality and what it is and how it works and how it affects each of us.

So, I would agree that this site has both types on it. The "Evolved" and the "Evolving" (?) perhaps?

The "Very Aware" and the " :o MG ... THAT'S ME!"

Why have you not introduced your sister to Aven? Or is that for another thread? :)

So when I found AVEN I knew it was the board for me

Thank you Aven, thank you Aven ...

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I guess there's a fine line between celebacy and asexuality. Whichever group your in, the fact is, neither ever really enjoyed sex. The difference being that one group (celebates) once had sexual desires which were ultimately driven out of them by their disappointing experiences; while the other group (asexuals) never had any strong desires and--if they were sexually active at all--sex was a chore that was necessary to win approval and/or maintain a relationship.

Ultmately, we end up in the same place. Both have given up the pretence of liking it and have decided that life can go on just fine without it.

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For asexuals there is actually no choosing to "live the asexual lifestyle". We were always living that way - sex or no sex. People who used to be sexual and then gave up sex or lost interest later in life are not living an "asexual lifestyle", they are simply no longer having sex. The end result for both may be the same but a former sexual who gives up sex was/is/and never will be an asexual. The bottom line is - the orientation IS the lifestyle.

True. And celibates are not living an "asexual lifestyle" either. Celibacy simply means not having sex; it says nothing about whether the person has chosen not to have sex, or can't find sex, or may be in a religious order which specifies no sex. Celibacy is what you do; asexual is how you feel.

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The story that I am about to tell you can be something rather controversial. Or it could sound like a crazy fiction from a journal kept by some lunatic. :o

I must say that the condition I will be describing is different from DID(Dissociative Identity Disorder) or MPD(Multiple personality disorder). The owner is always me; "me" doesn't get taken over but affected by the others either mildly or heavily depending on the physical and/or mental condition.

I don't know why and how. I have "two beings" in my mind. I decided to call them "beings" instead of "voices" in order not to confuse other people. Actually they take the form of voices in my mind but not real voices like hallucinatory ones. They are more like the inner voice of conscience, but not quite right either.

Here are my "beings", the inner buddies.

Being #1: She is OK with sex.

Being #2: Very recently I have discovered that she was desiring sexual contact. She experiences sexual arousal and wants to have sex with men. But it would have no emotional base, I presume, since she could not romantically love the person she would be making love to.

To make things more complicated and interesting, although she has some traits that make her sound like a sexual, she is the one who keeps me from having sex. She generally does not like to be touched. While she finds it a little uncomfortable to be touched by anyone, she loves playfully touching other people's body.

Me: I am very asexual.

Looking so different from one another, the three of us, who constitute "me", have two things in common. First, we cannot enjoy sexual activities. Second, we can't have "real" romantic relationships that are based on romantic feelings and love, which means basically no relationship could go beyond friendship mentally or emotionally if physically it would be possible because I have no problem doing sex.

In short,

#1 - She is an asexual who kind of likes the act of sex.

#2 - She can be either a repulsed sexual(anti-sexual??) or a repulsed asexual.

ME - I am an asexual who thinks that staying out of relationships will be good for my mental health.

I could be hetero-sexual, homo-asexual, or hetero-asexual.

But none of them is entirely me.

I am just an outsider, I guess, like I always have been all my life.

I think my case is a little confusing and controversial because I AM sexual in some respects while I am asexual.

I wish I could tell you more. But I am afraid I can't. That's partly because some things in my head are not appropriate to talk about in public and I would rather keep quiet for the rest of my life. Also, I am still in a bit of confusion myself and know too little about myself at the moment.

Everything looks simple. But nothing is always simple. :(

[Edited]

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I believe I was always asexual but being born in the 50s and coming of age in the early 70s "asexual" was not a term I'd ever heard of, actually I don't think I was aware of it until sometime in the 90s. I tried to be a sexual person, dated/married/had a child and I don't regret any of that. I did not have a desire for sex but being raised a Catholic (and then joining a very bible thumping church) I felt it was my obligation to have sex with my husband (then I used sex to try and obliterate myself but that's another story). I always wanted to be accepted, to "fit in", and it wasn't until I was in my 40s that I finally had the self confidence to just be ME. I don't think anyone "decides" to be asexual, but I do think a lot of us have to try different orientations before we really know where we are most comfortable. I admire people who know from a young age exactly where they fit, whether they are sexual, homosexual, asexual etc. I just wasn't one of those people.

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Is there a difference between the orientation of asexuality and the chosen lifestyle of asexuality?

And does it matter?

Is there a difference between

1. a lifestyle that excludes sexual contact of all kinds and

2. a more generalized disinclination toward toward sexual contact with certain compromises and reservations within relationships?

Yes, there is a difference.

The first can be practiced even by sexuals.

The second cannot.

I know I am orientation asexual. I knew at a very young age, before puberty that sex wasn't ever going to be a part of my life. Sex and the act of sex is revolting to me. Just the image of such acts in my head sickens me. So when I found AVEN I knew it was the board for me and that I was Asexual, even though until finding AVEN I had never heard the term used for people.

But asexuality is not characterized by a revulsion toward sex.

I would call myself quite indifferent to it.

Capable of response, but not really capable of "coming on."

And since being here, I have read posts from many other asexuals of the same orientation.

I would say the revulsion is an attitude. Not an orientation.

Orientation is more generalized.

It is not intense because it is not a feeling in itself.

It is the perception of relationship, romance, attachment, and bond.

I have also read many posts of asexuals that began there lives as sexual

In other words, if I got married, gave birth to three children, then I was sexual because I behaved sexually within my marriage.

Let alone that I never initiated the act, and let alone that my husband, God rest his soul, felt like he got the cold shoulder too many times.

In my marriage, I still possessed a generalized disinclination toward sexual contact.

I was and am asexual. Period.

and at some point in there life they decided that sex was no longer going to be a part of their lives and began to live as an asexual.

To live as an asexual means that asexuality is not an orientation at all.

It would have to be defined as behavior.

I can understand these types of asexuals also, although in my mind they are not orientation asexuals but instead lifestyle asexuals.

You can't know how they felt about their sexual behavior at the time it was taking place.

My sister is one of these types. She was very sexual in her youth. She has had 3 husbands and has 3 children. Yet now she lives an asexual lifestyle.

You would have to know a lot about the dynamics of those relationships to come to such a conclusion.

What were her sexual attitudes in the relationships?

Therein is the key to understanding her asexuality or sexuality.

Her and her husband haven't had sex in a very long time. When he makes overtures, she tells him no way to take care of things himself.

Well that is now. You don't know her mind before.

Asexuality, like all orientations is in the mind. I define it as being in the mind, not in the body, and certainly not in behavior alone.

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HappyLife:

Thank you for sharing your "story". It is a "story" that, I suspect, is way more common than believed. Well...regardless how common, it is a story I identify with in many ways. In short, I understand where you are coming from...and I think your post was a very good post!

Allow me to set forth a few propositions:

Sexual or Asexual is not 100% for anybody (oh, maybe a slight few!). Instead, persons are sexual or asexual in degrees not absolutes (oh, maybe slight few exceptions!)

Nobody is a constant, insofar as being -fill-in-the-blank- (sexual, homosexual, aroused, turned-off, romantic, hungry, horny, etc.).

Labels are dangerous because nobody is a -fill-in-the-blank- (label) all of the time. Ergo, labels by definition are false statements.

So we all have our waxes and our wanes when it comes to our sexuality or eroticism.

We all can mutate, evolve or change when it comes to our sexuality or eroticism.

The defining description in AVEN for an asexual is a little harsh in my opinion. It says an asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. Short and simple, and without more, it is wrong when it comes to me...or you...or who knows how many!

Of course, AVEN goes on to qualify "sexual attraction." It refers to having a desire to sexually act out with another. If "acting out" means connecting the genital organs, then we have lots of people who are asexual lots of time. That most definitely includes me.

So if part of you wants something sexual, another part does not; if sex and romance mix like water and oil, then I understand!

Just had a thought: maybe asexuals cannot experience the simultaneous combination of romantic love and sexual desire?

Jay

The story that I am about to tell you can be something rather controversial. Or it could sound like a crazy fiction from a journal kept by some lunatic. :o

I must say that the condition I will be describing is different from DID(Dissociative Identity Disorder) or MPD(Multiple personality disorder). The owner is always me; "me" doesn't get taken over but affected by the others either mildly or heavily depending on the physical and/or mental condition.

I don't know why and how. I have "two beings" in my mind. I decided to call them "beings" instead of "voices" in order not to confuse other people. Actually they take the form of voices in my mind but not real voices like hallucinatory ones. They are more like the inner voice of conscience, but not quite right either.

Here are my "beings", the inner buddies.

Being #1: She is OK with sex.

Being #2: Very recently I have discovered that she was desiring sexual contact. She experiences sexual arousal and wants to have sex with men. But it would have no emotional base, I presume, since she could not romantically love the person she would be making love to.

To make things more complicated and interesting, although she has some traits that make her sound like a sexual, she is the one who keeps me from having sex. She generally does not like to be touched. While she finds it a little uncomfortable to be touched by anyone, she loves playfully touching other people's body.

Me: I am very asexual.

Looking so different from one another, the three of us, who constitute "me", have two things in common. First, we cannot enjoy sexual activities. Second, we can't have "real" romantic relationships that are based on romantic feelings and love, which means basically no relationship could go beyond friendship mentally or emotionally if physically it would be possible because I have no problem doing sex.

In short,

#1 - She is an asexual who kind of likes the act of sex.

#2 - She can be either a repulsed sexual(anti-sexual??) or a repulsed asexual.

ME - I am an asexual who thinks that staying out of relationships will be good for my mental health.

I could be hetero-sexual, homo-asexual, or hetero-asexual.

But none of them is entirely me.

I am just an outsider, I guess, like I always have been all my life.

I think my case is a little confusing and controversial because I AM sexual in some respects while I am asexual.

I wish I could tell you more. But I am afraid I can't. That's partly because some things in my head are not appropriate to talk about in public and I would rather keep quiet for the rest of my life. Also, I am still in a bit of confusion myself and know too little about myself at the moment.

Everything looks simple. But nothing is always simple. :(

[Edited]

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Just had a thought: maybe asexuals cannot experience the simultaneous combination of romantic love and sexual desire?

I know that connecting the two is difficult for me.

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I guess there's a fine line between celebacy and asexuality. Whichever group your in, the fact is, neither ever really enjoyed sex. The difference being that one group (celebates) once had sexual desires which were ultimately driven out of them by their disappointing experiences; while the other group (asexuals) never had any strong desires and--if they were sexually active at all--sex was a chore that was necessary to win approval and/or maintain a relationship.

Ultmately, we end up in the same place. Both have given up the pretence of liking it and have decided that life can go on just fine without it.

What you say may well describe some celibates, but other celibates did not have disappointing experiences (they either had experiences they liked, or never had any experiences at all); these celibates chose to be celibate not because they didn't like sex, but because they had some other reason to avoid it, such as a spiritual or philosophical conviction.

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I believe I was always asexual but being born in the 50s and coming of age in the early 70s "asexual" was not a term I'd ever heard of, actually I don't think I was aware of it until sometime in the 90s. I tried to be a sexual person, dated/married/had a child and I don't regret any of that. I did not have a desire for sex but being raised a Catholic (and then joining a very bible thumping church) I felt it was my obligation to have sex with my husband (then I used sex to try and obliterate myself but that's another story). I always wanted to be accepted, to "fit in", and it wasn't until I was in my 40s that I finally had the self confidence to just be ME. I don't think anyone "decides" to be asexual, but I do think a lot of us have to try different orientations before we really know where we are most comfortable. I admire people who know from a young age exactly where they fit, whether they are sexual, homosexual, asexual etc. I just wasn't one of those people.

In some ways our stories are very similar...I'm a Post war baby (1949), I desperately tried to fit in, failed miserably. It was only when I found AVEN that I realised I wasn't a freak...well, I am a freak but not that way. Like you, in some ways I envy our younger members who know from early on...alternatively, I wouldn't have my sons or granddaughter and I wouldn't be without any of them...

Tan

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I wonder if "it" is inherited ? .. I've wondered many miles about if I was some kind of an it. I'm not genderless, but I wish I was.. anyway there are stories I can't add up about my Grandmother and her sister.

My Grandmother. all my Mom said, was that she had "funny ideas about sex." .. that she only thought sex was for making babies. My mother and her brother were nine years apart. My grandfather had a mistress. And this was on a farm, not that it matters but, city folk I guess.. anyway, my grandmother's sister, my great auntie was a very pretty lady and she had a man who was madly in love with her, he tried for years to get engaged to her, at one point I think she was given a ring and then she changed her mind "for some reason" and gave it back, never got married. My great aunt lived as a school teacher alone with her ducks and chickens following her around as she working in her yard and garden.

Anyway they are vague stories from a time before the sexual revolution and mass media, TV etc.. . I don't know if I expressed them as well as what they didn't say speaks to me now as I compare other grandmother type people, I think I understand them by how I feel. And I wonder if it (not interested) was how they felt ? and my own sibling , and my mother they are not asexual at all, not sure about my father but also I really don't think he's a non- because of my mother's sense of humor. (very shy family, so anyway) .

Has anyone else got relatives who were .. somehow more than Victorian ? Or stories about a blood relative who was a non-sexual ? auntie or uncle or grandparent etc ...

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Guest disjointed

I know from an early age I would never like brussel sprouts.. therefore may I ask if I was born a anti-vegatarian?

I feel the line between celibacy and Asexuality is one that wil always sway from one side to the other depending on individual situations

I also feel that sometimes people try to define and analyze almost every small speck in thier life feeling there must be a reason or answer for everything they do!

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Could somebody change the spelling of "confussion"? I hope I am not being too fussy, but I would like to see a fusion of the right letters.

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I think there's confussion---oops, confusion----on the comparative definition of "asexual" and "celibate."

Being asexual is an orientation. You *feel* that you are an asexual.

Being celibate is a choice, an action (or non-action). You *behave* as a celibate.

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Aww.... I was kinda getting a smile out of pronouncing it as "con fushion" in my head. Not only that, but I have decided that being confushed is even worse than being confused. Heck, I was well on the way to inventing a whole new term for my ongoing, overlapping series of senior moments! *sigh*

But I guess I can change it if it bothers you.

('Hope Ziff doesn't mind...)

-GB

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HappyLife:

Thank you for sharing your "story". It is a "story" that, I suspect, is way more common than believed. Well...regardless how common, it is a story I identify with in many ways. In short, I understand where you are coming from...and I think your post was a very good post!

I regretted having put that post up. Your comment has made me feel much better. Thank you very much.

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Being asexual is an orientation. You *feel* that you are an asexual.

Being celibate is a choice, an action (or non-action). You *behave* as a celibate.

I am confusing.

Maybe I'm a celibate, then.

In a way, I feel relieved to think that I'm a celibate.

[edited]

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I knew I was asexual since I was about nine. I would tell my mom’s friend that I was never getting married and it was not because the other sex was icky, I just had better things to do, at the time I equated marriage to sex. I did not have the terminology (a few years later I would) and it was hard to define what I was to my mom’s friend; this where I think labels come in they help us get other people to understand who we are. We start making ambiguous labels since no one fits into just one label’s meaning and instead of keeping them ambiguous some people try to make labels into a box, which never works.

Orientation in my dictionary is defined as “where someone’s thoughts, interests, and tendencies lie”. My first thought was “that was a broad statement” because to me it meant sexual preference and my second thought was “I am going to go get another dictionary”. Anyway, celibate means “abstaining from sex” so I would think that someone who starts out as sexual and chooses to live a life with no sex would make them celibate. There would be moments when there would be a struggle not to have sex. Being asexual (even the kind that likes sex) for the most part do not seek sex out and when they do it does not seem to be for reasons purely of sexual desire/sexual attraction. Most Asexuals do not have a struggle to abstain from sex since sex is a non-issue and those that have sex, it is not as if they are breaking a personal rule, they are not celibate and they are not abstaining.

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I think, at least in some cases, there can be a genetic component to it. When I mentioned being asexual to my mom, she said she was largely the same way -- she enjoyed sex, but it wasn't something she felt any particular urge for, and that one of our other relatives may have been as well. It's not something that's ever come up in conversation with my dad, so I'm not sure on that side of the family.

I wonder if "it" is inherited ? .. I've wondered many miles about if I was some kind of an it. I'm not genderless, but I wish I was.. anyway there are stories I can't add up about my Grandmother and her sister.

My Grandmother. all my Mom said, was that she had "funny ideas about sex." .. that she only thought sex was for making babies. My mother and her brother were nine years apart. My grandfather had a mistress. And this was on a farm, not that it matters but, city folk I guess.. anyway, my grandmother's sister, my great auntie was a very pretty lady and she had a man who was madly in love with her, he tried for years to get engaged to her, at one point I think she was given a ring and then she changed her mind "for some reason" and gave it back, never got married. My great aunt lived as a school teacher alone with her ducks and chickens following her around as she working in her yard and garden.

Anyway they are vague stories from a time before the sexual revolution and mass media, TV etc.. . I don't know if I expressed them as well as what they didn't say speaks to me now as I compare other grandmother type people, I think I understand them by how I feel. And I wonder if it (not interested) was how they felt ? and my own sibling , and my mother they are not asexual at all, not sure about my father but also I really don't think he's a non- because of my mother's sense of humor. (very shy family, so anyway) .

Has anyone else got relatives who were .. somehow more than Victorian ? Or stories about a blood relative who was a non-sexual ? auntie or uncle or grandparent etc ...

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Has anyone else got relatives who were .. somehow more than Victorian ? Or stories about a blood relative who was a non-sexual ? auntie or uncle or grandparent etc ...

My mother passed away in January and it was apparent she was not comfortable with sex even to me as a child, when my father came to stay with me in the spring and I told him that I was asexual he said he believed my mother was as well; she did her "duty" but he knew she never enjoyed the act and he loved her so much that the last 25-30 years of their 60 year marriage he didn't even ask her to have sex.

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I'm an only-recently celibate, but "known"-for-a-long-time asexual. Even meeting other asexuals, I was confused, because they didn't even want romantic relationships, but I did, so I didn't really know if I was asexual or not and experimented with my sexuality in different ways, before I finally understood that no type of sex was satisfying or motivating for me, the way it seemed to be with everyone else.

Just looking at the etymology of the word, asexuality seems like the idea of indifference to sex. So I think it's pretty obvious that some people can be non-celibate asexuals due to social pressures, or their own desires to make others happy, or even simply because they don't understand their own feelings yet. Not everyone knows or understands they're different right away. And my understanding is that something that causes intense fear or disgust is labeled as a -phobia, and I am not "sexaphobic". I simply lack the desire for the act in all situations. I'm also an atheist, but I don't HATE the idea of god. I just don't believe it, and I certainly can pretend, and have pretended, to be religious in the past in order to spare someone's feelings(funerals, anyone?).

Does having been non-celibate, even with a shallow sort of understanding that "maybe sex isn't my thing", mean I never was and never can be asexual?

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First off, I am NOT posting this thread to insinuate that anyone is or is NOT asexual.

Second, I Only wish for a conversation on some things that have been rumbling around in my mind since I have been a member on Aven.

Third, If our esteemed moderator believes this thread to be too radical and threatening, then please delete it before it can do any harm. Because it is not my wish to hurt but to learn.

And Forth, I put this here, because this is the forum I use, and I believe it needs older more experienced heads discussing this topic, than less experienced heads that would tend to get HOT headed.

Is there a difference between the orientation of asexuality and the chosen lifestyle of asexuality?

And does it matter?

I know I am orientation asexual. I knew at a very young age, before puberty that sex wasn't ever going to be a part of my life. Sex and the act of sex is revolting to me. Just the image of such acts in my head sickens me. So when I found AVEN I knew it was the board for me and that I was Asexual, even though until finding AVEN I had never heard the term used for people. And since being here, I have read posts from many other asexuals of the same orientation.

I have also read many posts of asexuals that began there lives as sexual and at some point in there life they decided that sex was no longer going to be a part of their lives and began to live as an asexual. I can understand these types of asexuals also, although in my mind they are not orientation asexuals but instead lifestyle asexuals. My sister is one of these types. She was very sexual in her youth. She has had 3 husbands and has 3 children. Yet now she lives an asexual lifestyle. Her and her husband haven't had sex in a very long time. When he makes overtures, she tells him no way to take care of things himself. You would have to know my sister. She is very overpowering. But the point is, she is not asexual. She is a sexual living an asexual lifestyle. Yet if she found this site, she would probably join and post and believe that she really is an asexual, because now in her life, she hates sex.

It is my belief that this site has both types on it and that is where some of the confussion comes from when discussing asexuality and what it is and how it works and how it affects each of us.

Understand, I am NOT saying that anyone here is or is not asexual. OK?

And it is my hope that this becomes a reasoned discussion of a curious topic, and not a HOT ZONE!

Ok, I am going to shut up for now, and listen to what others have to say.

I think its more complicated that you assume. Its not just about behaviour, in fact very little can be told by behaviour in many cases.

In fact my worst niggle witH AVEN is the problem of some members rejecting the fluid nature of sexuality; thereby rejecting me as an asexual - I left the forum for several months due to this isssue in fact. So I understand why you think it might be a HOT TOPIC.

It is quite possible to experience sexual attraction at one point in your life, and then stop experiencing it at some later stage (even while retaining a libido).

The trouble with saying that such cases arent real asexuality because they are caused rather than innate, is that the nature-nurture debate is a very murky pool to get into, and its going to be impossible to prove the case and only likely to bring up inter-uterine factors that may make even 'innate' cases look dubious.

I tend to think that its more likely to go a little way along the fluidity spectrum, than make great leaps along it. Like its unlikely you would go from nympho to asexual. Or 100% straight to 100% gay.

Maybe life traumas can make grey-As completely asexual. I dont see that as confusing anything with celibacy, celibacy is restaining sexual attraction, asexuality is not having any- it seems a very simple distinction.

Maybe true love can bring out sexual attraction in folk who have been asexual for 50 years , I dont know... but I dont think its a possiblilty we should be worried about, or feel threatened by the possibility of.

I think its even possible to go from a romantic to aromantic asexual.

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I fell in love with a man in my 30s and was sexually attracted to him for almost exactly two years. Nothing before that, and it ended after two years. I have no idea why it happened. It wasn't just that I was in love with him, because that continued long after the sexual attraction stopped, and I never actually liked sex -- was just attracted to him. So maybe it wasn't a sexual attraction, just a romantic attraction. Eeeesh -- it's complicated and impossible to figure out for certain.

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