New member with a question for romantics

[UltraViolet]

Hi all - newbie here with a question for romantic asexuals. Have any of you ever found a mutual love relationship that was truly sex free (not just "trying-to-get-out-of-it-for-as-long-as-possible" or "putting-up-with-a-little-so-they'll-stay-around")? Every time I tell them I have no interest in sex many men still think that THEY will be the one to change me - the old "Oh, but you'll like it with me " scenario. Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) without sex?

[KAGU143]

Short answer: Yes, but ...

There have been several marriages (that I know about) between AVEN members, so it definitely isn't impossible.

At least one more is impending. (You first heard about it HERE, folks!)

It isn't easy to find such asexual partners, though.

The one thing that all of the now-married AVEN members have in common is that they post/posted a lot, are/were willing to publicly share some deeper aspects of their personal lives, and are/were very involved in the community. I think that level of openness allowed others to get to know them more as "real" people and it eventually helped to lead to their success in finding partners. Willingness to travel is also a big factor. The odds against finding a LOCAL asexual partner who is also compatible in other ways are, unfortunately, still extremely steep.

-GB

[UltraViolet]

Short answer: Yes, but ...

There have been several marriages (that I know about) between AVEN members, so it definitely isn't impossible.

At least one more is impending. (You first heard about it HERE, folks!)

It isn't easy to find such asexual partners, though.

The one thing that all of the now-married AVEN members have in common is that they post/posted a lot, are/were willing to publicly share some deeper aspects of their personal lives, and are/were very involved in the community. I think that level of openness allowed others to get to know them more as "real" people and it eventually helped to lead to their success in finding partners. Willingness to travel is also a big factor. The odds against finding a LOCAL asexual partner who is also compatible in other ways are, unfortunately, still extremely steep.

-GB

Hi Greybird - Thanks for the reply. Indeed, an answer as expected about the difficulties of finding love without sex. Younger posters seem to have an easier time tho because the younger generation seems more open about asexuality and they are willing to admit it and discuss it a lot more freely. Many men 35 and up have already spent much of their lives trying to want sex and either marrying anyway or just staying single. Unfortunately, by the time many men get older they are usually resigned to a single life due to having lived it for so long anyway - or, they are fed up with their high sex drive girlfriends/wives and when they break up/divorce they really do not want a relationship ever again.

[cijay]

Hi all - newbie here with a question for romantic asexuals. Have any of you ever found a mutual love relationship that was truly sex free (not just "trying-to-get-out-of-it-for-as-long-as-possible" or "putting-up-with-a-little-so-they'll-stay-around")? Every time I tell them I have no interest in sex many men still think that THEY will be the one to change me - the old "Oh, but you'll like it with me " scenario. Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) without sex?

I haven't had a romantic relationship yet. I had a very good friendship for 21 years 'til he went into heat and found someone who would put out but it hadn't really been a romantic relationship between us in the first place.

When asking my mum about 'being in love', she pointed out that she thinks many people don't stay 'in love' forever anyway. Not that they don't love each other but the initial 'in love' feeling fades after awhile and you are best friends which is more important than being in love. So, I think my question, rather than can men ever stay in love without sex...it's can anyone ever stay in love period.

[newgirl]

I would checkout asexual meetup in your area

[UltraViolet]

Hi all - newbie here with a question for romantic asexuals. Have any of you ever found a mutual love relationship that was truly sex free (not just "trying-to-get-out-of-it-for-as-long-as-possible" or "putting-up-with-a-little-so-they'll-stay-around")? Every time I tell them I have no interest in sex many men still think that THEY will be the one to change me - the old "Oh, but you'll like it with me " scenario. Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) without sex?

I haven't had a romantic relationship yet. I had a very good friendship for 21 years 'til he went into heat and found someone who would put out but it hadn't really been a romantic relationship between us in the first place.

When asking my mum about 'being in love', she pointed out that she thinks many people don't stay 'in love' forever anyway. Not that they don't love each other but the initial 'in love' feeling fades after awhile and you are best friends which is more important than being in love. So, I think my question, rather than can men ever stay in love without sex...it's can anyone ever stay in love period.

That's a really good point - can anyone even stay in love at all? I know what you mean about the "in love" feeling fading away and turning into a friendship and a (hopefully) deeper kind of love. It's just that I have noticed that without sex many men can't retain ANY kind of love "feeling". Even THEY know that sex is not love and yet they cling to it as if it were. BTW your statement - "'til he went into heat and found someone who would put out" - LMAO - great way to put it.

[UltraViolet]

I would checkout asexual meetup in your area

Thanks! I will.

[jay williams]

Hi all - newbie here with a question for romantic asexuals. Have any of you ever found a mutual love relationship that was truly sex free (not just "trying-to-get-out-of-it-for-as-long-as-possible" or "putting-up-with-a-little-so-they'll-stay-around")? Every time I tell them I have no interest in sex many men still think that THEY will be the one to change me - the old "Oh, but you'll like it with me " scenario. Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) without sex?

Great questions. Thanks for coming along and posing these questions. I will first start with a rant. It seems the theme among most or virtually all asexual women is that ALL men will insist on sex, and there are no exceptions.

This is not true.

I am a man. I believe that sex and love or sex and a relationship mixes like cats and dogs, oil and water, etc. For me the question has always been: Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) WITH sex? The answer is NO for me.

There is nothing wrong with hating sex, being anti-sex, believing that sex is yucky, etc. Such attitudes are extremely endearing to us men who are also repulsed by sex.

Go for it UltraViolet!

Thanks for raising the topic.

[< retired >]

...there have to be some asexual men 35 - 65 who want a romantic companion/partner...

Your average 35 year old is quite a bit different than your average 65 year old. My own target age range for a nice female romantic asexual companion is 38 - 52 (45 +/- 7). Finding such a woman is difficult where I live - the average age around here is 65.

Sexuality is only one of many potential areas of incompatibility, and from my perspective it's not the most important. A highly sexual woman (and I've known my share) would disagree (just another incompatibility). For me, the most important question is "Am I willing to support what's going on between her ears?" Unfortunately, many folks today suffer diminished activity in that region...

Good luck on your search!

:cake:

[UltraViolet]

Hi all - newbie here with a question for romantic asexuals. Have any of you ever found a mutual love relationship that was truly sex free (not just "trying-to-get-out-of-it-for-as-long-as-possible" or "putting-up-with-a-little-so-they'll-stay-around")? Every time I tell them I have no interest in sex many men still think that THEY will be the one to change me - the old "Oh, but you'll like it with me " scenario. Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) without sex?

Great questions. Thanks for coming along and posing these questions. I will first start with a rant. It seems the theme among most or virtually all asexual women is that ALL men will insist on sex, and there are no exceptions.

This is not true.

Agreed - ALL men do not want sex - just ALL the ones attracted to me! LOL. Never fails! I should sell my "anti-sex" phermones to women who are desperately trying TO have sex!

I am a man. I believe that sex and love or sex and a relationship mixes like cats and dogs, oil and water, etc. For me the question has always been: Can men ever be truly in love (and STAY in love) WITH sex? The answer is NO for me.

There is nothing wrong with hating sex, being anti-sex, believing that sex is yucky, etc. Such attitudes are extremely endearing to us men who are also repulsed by sex.

Ah, music to my ears - thanks for posting!

[UltraViolet]

Your average 35 year old is quite a bit different than your average 65 year old.

I know, but I wanted to give myself a wide range. Fortunately, I can relate to any age in that range.

Sexuality is only one of many potential areas of incompatibility, and from my perspective it's not the most important. A highly sexual woman (and I've known my share) would disagree (just another incompatibility).

Unfortunately, there can be so MANY ways to be incompatable - lol. Sometimes I'm amazed that anyone gets together at all. Sexuality is always a big issue when there is a big gap between sex drives - the wider the gap the bigger the problem. My mantra - "Don't date outside of your range".

[jay williams]

Isn't it strange how asexuals wind up with sexuals? I don't quite see how this happens so often---especially in this day and age when---so far as I know---sexual people have sex by the third date if not sooner.

[Olivier]

Isn't it strange how asexuals wind up with sexuals? I don't quite see how this happens so often---especially in this day and age when---so far as I know---sexual people have sex by the third date if not sooner.

If only the world were that simple. I'm sexual and my last long-term sexual ex and I were together for 18 months, and while we did some sexual things, we never had sex. My asexual wife, on the other hand, initiated sex with me about a week BEFORE our first date (she figured it would get it into my thick skull that she was interested in me - I'm not so good at subtle hints )

[jay williams]

Your asexual wife initiated sex with you a week before your first date? Not sure what you consider a date, but it seems to me having sex would count as a date. Ergo, one could not have sex before a date.

Isn't it strange how asexuals wind up with sexuals? I don't quite see how this happens so often---especially in this day and age when---so far as I know---sexual people have sex by the third date if not sooner.

If only the world were that simple. I'm sexual and my last long-term sexual ex and I were together for 18 months, and while we did some sexual things, we never had sex. My asexual wife, on the other hand, initiated sex with me about a week BEFORE our first date (she figured it would get it into my thick skull that she was interested in me - I'm not so good at subtle hints )

[Olivier]

Your asexual wife initiated sex with you a week before your first date? Not sure what you consider a date, but it seems to me having sex would count as a date. Ergo, one could not have sex before a date.

We were at a party to which we'd separately been invited - it definitely wasn't a date To me a date implies amongst other things that one person invites the other out, and it's just the two of you. We weren't even the only people in the room (the others were asleep!)

When I was young, all my other relationships followed the usual rules of dating and courtship. But with my wife everything got a bit bent out of a "normal" shape - and it still is. Whether that's to do with her asexuality, or the intensity of the feelings we have for each other, who knows, but we've been together 18 years now, and we're past caring what other people think of as normal.

[jay williams]

I can think of lots of reasons how you and your asexual wife had sex when you met. Well...since it was a party, perhaps you were both drunk? "Asexuals" can certainly have sexual feelings. We asexuals all have to discover our umm...asexuality. Oftentimes, it takes having sex a few times to find out that having sex is not what we want. Glad that your relationship is working out for you.

Your asexual wife initiated sex with you a week before your first date? Not sure what you consider a date, but it seems to me having sex would count as a date. Ergo, one could not have sex before a date.

We were at a party to which we'd separately been invited - it definitely wasn't a date To me a date implies amongst other things that one person invites the other out, and it's just the two of you. We weren't even the only people in the room (the others were asleep!)

When I was young, all my other relationships followed the usual rules of dating and courtship. But with my wife everything got a bit bent out of a "normal" shape - and it still is. Whether that's to do with her asexuality, or the intensity of the feelings we have for each other, who knows, but we've been together 18 years now, and we're past caring what other people think of as normal.

[UltraViolet]

Your asexual wife initiated sex with you a week before your first date? Not sure what you consider a date, but it seems to me having sex would count as a date. Ergo, one could not have sex before a date.

We were at a party to which we'd separately been invited - it definitely wasn't a date To me a date implies amongst other things that one person invites the other out, and it's just the two of you. We weren't even the only people in the room (the others were asleep!)

When I was young, all my other relationships followed the usual rules of dating and courtship. But with my wife everything got a bit bent out of a "normal" shape - and it still is. Whether that's to do with her asexuality, or the intensity of the feelings we have for each other, who knows, but we've been together 18 years now, and we're past caring what other people think of as normal.

I'm glad that you and your wife have a successful marriage but I have a question - You say that your asexual wife had sex with you before your first date and I am assuming that she has continued to have sex with you since then. However, would have married her (and still be married to her) if she'd never had sex with you (or, started out having sex but stopped later)? Thus my OP question - can love WITHOUT sex exist (and for how long)?

[Olivier]

Question - You say your asexual wife had sex with you before your first date. I am assuming that she has continued to have sex with you since then - however, do you think that you would have married her (and still be married to her) if she'd never had sex with you (or, started out having sex but stopped later)? Thus my OP question - can love WITHOUT sex exist (and for how long)?

That's a hard question. We were young-ish (around 20) and had both had only a few previous sexual partners, and indeed had both had reasonably long relationships without sex. To be honest, had she not initiated the sexual side of the relationship, I would have been happy to wait quite a long time*. If my wife and I had made it a year without sex, and my wife was aware of her asexuality the way she is now, then who knows? Maybe we could have agreed to keep going the way we had up until then. I sometimes think that it would have been easier if we had never had sex, but I doubt that's actually true.

All the same, we've had long sexless periods - 6 months to a year - at various times in our marriage. Sometimes it's been no problem, and sometimes it's caused huge stress. Much of that stress though was poor expectation management on both our parts - feeling misled was more damaging than the lack of sex.

But everyone is different. For many sexuals, love without sex will leave them feeling unappreciated and rejected. Whether good communication and an understanding that asexuality doesn't mean those things can overcome those negatives is something that's really going depend on the two people involved - what they each want and need from a relationship, and how well they can communicate that to each other. To protect yourself from disappointment, I wouldn't expect it to work, but I'd try anyway - you never know, and as long as you approach things with honesty, what have you got to lose?

*In my previous relationship sex, or the lack of it, only became an issue after 18 months, when it became clear that while we both wanted sex, we wanted different approaches to sex (me: tender, romantic, equal - her: me forceful, her submissive), and so we frustrated each other and never clicked sexually - we didn't even manage bad sex because each of us was turned off or threatened by what the other wanted.

[UltraViolet]

All the same, we've had long sexless periods - 6 months to a year - at various times in our marriage. Sometimes it's been no problem, and sometimes it's caused huge stress. Much of that stress though was poor expectation management on both our parts - feeling misled was more damaging than the lack of sex.

I can see how you would feel misled seeing as it was your asexual wife who initiated the sex as she was seemingly not aware of or at least not entirely aware of her asexuality at the time. Like many asexuals before they are aware your wife was doing what society "expected" her to do - to try to act as "sexual" as possible.

But everyone is different. For many sexuals, love without sex will leave them feeling unappreciated and rejected. Whether good communication and an understanding that asexuality doesn't mean those things can overcome those negatives is something that's really going depend on the two people involved - what they each want and need from a relationship, and how well they can communicate that to each other. To protect yourself from disappointment, I wouldn't expect it to work, but I'd try anyway - you never know, and as long as you approach things with honesty, what have you got to lose?

I realize that things can be worked out between some asex/sexual couples but I have long given up on trying to work things out with sexuals even tho some have been better at compromise than others. Regardless of how understanding they are the pressure to have sex always looms in the background ready to explode at any time. Unfortunately, I have found that sex issues always seem to lead to the biggest argumets and are usually the biggest factor/final straw in divorce. There is a site called Sexless Marriage that (often quite brutally) proves how volatile sex issues can be. It just seems that the only way for an asex/sexual marriage to work is that the asex partner does agree to at least some sex. I have never heard of a sexual becoming totally celibate for his/her asexual spouse.

[Olivier]

All the same, we've had long sexless periods - 6 months to a year - at various times in our marriage. Sometimes it's been no problem, and sometimes it's caused huge stress. Much of that stress though was poor expectation management on both our parts - feeling misled was more damaging than the lack of sex.

I can see how you would feel misled seeing as it was your asexual wife who initiated the sex as she was seemingly not aware of or at least not entirely aware of her asexuality at the time. Like many asexuals before they are aware your wife was doing what society "expected" her to do - to try to act as "sexual" as possible.

That wasn't really a problem - people change, and understand themselves and their partner better over time. In any case, in the beginning my wife wasn't initiating sex because she was confused about her sexual attraction, but because she wanted sex for other reasons besides sexual attraction (for me, basically - helped by her strong non-sexual attraction to me). I really meant that our sexless periods were only stressful when either or both of us made commitments/offers regarding how much/little sex we expected that we weren't able to keep.

[raeanne]

Yes, I have had a truly sex free relationship. My friend died in 1997 which was before there was much talk about asexuality. What’s funny is that both of us were trying to live as sexuals (not with each other) most of the time we knew each other. We were friend for over 30 years. We never had sex. Even though we were opposite genders, there was a bit of a “Brokeback Mountain” quality to our relationship. We would go on camping trips together and then maybe not see each other for several months. Mostly we just referred to each other as “best buddies”. It made it simpler when other people asked about our relationship. We had talked about our relationship and why we didn’t have sex but we both just said we didn’t feel the need for it. It was very comfortable. We liked to cuddle and as I mentioned in another thread, we both liked to watch the sunset. We would give each other backrubs while watching the sunset and the backrub would express what we were seeing. It’s kind of hard to explain but over the years we developed different backrub styles to represent different sunsets. A strong hard rub would represent the sun; light finger strokes would represent little streaks of clouds, etc. When I close my eyes I can still feel some of those sunsets on my back! We both were strongly independent people. Both of us had been married twice and divorced twice. By the early 80s we both were single and remained so. I kind of think that maybe, as we got older, we might have tried to live together…maybe. I know that as I age I feel more of a need to be with someone. I love my independence but I have had a couple of health issues that make me want someone around more. It can be scary being alone sometimes. Anyway, I won’t settle for a relationship that is less than what I know it can be. Having experienced it once, I know it can happen!

[jay williams]

It is great to read about these testimonials. Clearly, the answer is that it is possible to have a great relationship without sex. We should not have to try to have a relationship with a sexual; a sexual should not try to have a relationship with an asexual---no more so than a lesbian should try to have a sexual relationship with a man!

[< retired >]

We should not have to try to have a relationship with a sexual; a sexual should not try to have a relationship with an asexual...

This is an over-simplification, IMHO. No relationship is perfect - there will always be sacrifice by each party to make things work. Sexual preference may be something that one party sacrifices in order to make things work. For others, a sexual mismatch is a deal-breaker - so be it. To each their own.

[KAGU143]

I would agree that ideally it would be best to avoid serious relationships between sexuals and asexuals, but let's face it; we don't live in an ideal world.

A lot of asexuals don't even realize that they ARE asexual, especially when they come from a conservative or religious upbringing that discourages sex before marriage, so they can end up being married before they even realize that there is a very real difference between their interest in sex and their spouse's.

On the other hand ...

Sometimes other aspects of the couple's personalities are SO perfectly compatible that those factors completely outweigh the sexual mismatch. (Personally, I think these are some of the luckiest people on the planet.) It's rare, though, and in the early stages it can be very hard to distinguish between ordinary oxytocin intoxication (the "falling in luuuve" kind of love) and true compatibility. Oxytocin loses it's power after about 2 years, more or less, and, unfortunately, a lot of people won't wait that long before they make a commitment. Then, when they fall out of love, there isn't much left to sustain the relationship.

-GB

[Sally]

Wow, the oxytocin thing is probably the "limerence" state that has been written about. It is really a letdown to come out of that in-love state -- can be quite painful.

[jay williams]

This is an over-simplification, IMHO. No relationship is perfect - there will always be sacrifice by each party to make things work. Sexual preference may be something that one party sacrifices in order to make things work. For others, a sexual mismatch is a deal-breaker - so be it. To each their own.

Well, I certainly agree in general. There is undoubtedly no way that two persons can be compatible, in every aspect and at every level.

Also, I am probably guilty of overemphasizing the importance of sexual compatibility. Course, this whole network is based on asexuality!

I guess my biggest gripe is that it would be nice if it were more openly recognized that relationships without sex can be just as romantic, loving and beautiful as other relationships.

[XTriformisX]

I've been there with the "trying to get out of it for as long as possible" in my last relationship, which ended up falling apart coz the guy thought I was simply bored of him.

I do think relationships between sexuals and asexuals can truly work though. It all depends on which one makes the compromise (either sexual not having sex at all, or asexual going along with sex) and whether they're ok with it. As long as either side is comfortable with the arrangements then I don't see why it couldn't work. After all, if ALL relationships that asexuals had were with other As, we'd all be veeery lonely indeed..

[jay williams]

I've been there with the "trying to get out of it for as long as possible" in my last relationship, which ended up falling apart coz the guy thought I was simply bored of him.

I do think relationships between sexuals and asexuals can truly work though. It all depends on which one makes the compromise (either sexual not having sex at all, or asexual going along with sex) and whether they're ok with it. As long as either side is comfortable with the arrangements then I don't see why it couldn't work. After all, if ALL relationships that asexuals had were with other As, we'd all be veeery lonely indeed..

One thing that needs to be remembered is that "sexuals" can eventually become asexuals for a variety of reasons. A "sexual" can be someone who was strongly motivated to have sex as a teenager or young person, but who eventually discovers that it is not what it is cracked up to be. An "asexual" can discover his sexuality only after experience. Is a sexual a "pure" sexual? Is an asexual a "pure" asexual? I suggest that many, many people are sexuals some of the time, asexuals some of the time, and many fewer people are one or the other all of the time.

For good or for worse, I am---for all intents and purposes---asexual all of the time. I do have sexual feelings, but I have zero (actually minus zero) desire to do genital business with another person.

[UltraViolet]

After all, if ALL relationships that asexuals had were with other As, we'd all be veeery lonely indeed..

Nah - I'd be veeeeery happy indeed to have relationships exclusively with asexuals - but then again I am only talking about romantic relationships which are, sadly, so very hard to find *sigh*. As for other types of relationships - yeah, if we would only have friendships with other asexuals we would all be veeeeery lonely indeed as not many of us are fortunate enough to have many asexual friends living nearby.

[UltraViolet]

Just wondering - have there ever been any sexual men who have become completely celibate for their asexual partner? Or, at least any sexual men who would be ok with very infrequent sex?