the mess

[pinkfizzie]

HI freinds..........I got myself in debt and desperately need to be free of it. Perchance, does anyone know or have recomendations for a service or sytem to elimindate debt??? You seem like a wise and caring group so I thought I would ask. Thanks Much

[< retired >]

On a superficial level, your income needs to exceed your expenses until your debt is paid off. How to achieve this is a complicated question that depends upon your particular situation. Perhaps your local community has some free financial counseling services? Recognizing that you have a problem, and recognizing that you may not know everything you need to know to solve the problem, are major achievements - congratulations! Good luck!

[rosalie]

I do not know where you live but in my country (Belgium), every municipality has a social office which has a department where people who have debts (or a sudden drop in revenue and previous loans, etc to continue to reimburse) can go to and ask for legal and practical advices. This service will help you draw a plan to recover and also take contact with the various persons or entities you may have debts towards, to inform them the sitution is under monitoring, etc. It's a free municipal service. I hope this kind of services exist where you are.

[hoku]

I realize you wanted a response from the caring group of people, but I have to say this. How can you be irresponsible and then expect someone to erase the consequences? I know there are many ways of getting into debt even for responsible people, but the way you wrote the question suggested otherwise. I am sure everyone who is in debt wants to be free of it, but if everyone borrowed the money and didn't pay it back, what do you think would happen?

[KAGU143]

Like everybody else said, you should start by seeing what sorts of counseling services are available in your area.

Personally, I suggest that you begin by going over every single one of your expenses and seeing which ones (if any) can be trimmed.

Things like cable TV and high-speed internet are not necessities, for instance, and neither are convenience foods.

Restaurant meals are out of the question, of course, as are movies and other frivolous purchases. Perfectly nice clothing can be found at thrift stores.

That would be just for starters.

You need to change your lifestyle, and you need to do it asap.

-GB

[Sally]

I'll just second what everyone else has said. You can only get "free" of your debt in two ways: going through bankruptcy (which is very much more difficult now for individuals) and paying it off, either gradually or immediately. You owe your debts -- that's pretty much the situation you're in. It's not likely that anyone's going to step up and pay them for you.

[fairview]

You don't need to pay a counseling service to know how to get out of debt.

Step 1: Remove all plastic from your wallet.

Step 2: List your take home income.

Step 3: Subtract only the necessities from your income, Rent, mortgage, utilities, food, car and fuel. Necessities do not include cell phones, eating out, movies etc.

Step 5: Look at your remaining credit bills. Can you make the minimum payments on all bills and have money left over. If yes all of the remaining uncommitted funds goes to the credit company with the lowest balance. Continue this until that one is paid off. Shred the card. Now take all of the money you were paying on the first card to the new lowest balance. Continue this and repeat. You will never get out of debt by paying minimum payments. If you don't have enough cash to go around as described above, contact all your creditors and tell them you are in trouble. Tell them they are going to get paid and when they will start seeing the money. Start with the lowest balance and work upwards. Stay on schedule, keep your commitments. This will take a new level of maturity you obviously don't have at the moment or you wouldn't have gotten in this situation to begin with.

Step 6: Keep only one perhaps two cards. Instead of allowing the creditor to set the spending limit, you tell them you only want $2000.00. This will keep you in check.

Step 7: Grow up, learn how to manage your money, pay with cash and learn to do without.

Declaring bankruptcy no longer erases debt. It goes on your credit history and the court will hand you a payment schedule that satisfies your creditors demands. You got yourself into this, stop looking for someone else to bail you out, be accountable for your actions, and quit driving the interest rates up for those of us that do manage our money.

And if you think I don't have compassion and concern for deadbeats, you are absolutely correct.

[hoku]

Step 5: Look at your remaining credit bills. Can you make the minimum payments on all bills and have money left over. If yes all of the remaining uncommitted funds goes to the credit company with the lowest balance. Continue this until that one is paid off. Shred the card. Now take all of the money you were paying on the first card to the new lowest balance. Continue this and repeat. You will never get out of debt by paying minimum payments. If you don't have enough cash to go around as described above, contact all your creditors and tell them you are in trouble. Tell them they are going to get paid and when they will start seeing the money. Start with the lowest balance and work upwards. Stay on schedule, keep your commitments. This will take a new level of maturity you obviously don't have at the moment or you wouldn't have gotten in this situation to begin with.

Another thing I might suggest is, if there are several places that you owe, see if it's possible to transfer balances from one account to another. This would help if one account has a lower interest rate - you want to owe as little as possible in places that have the highest interest rates, so transferring to the lower interest ones would be more efficient. If this is not possible, consider paying off those accounts that have the highest interest instead of those with the lowest balance, unless those accounts have huge balances that would take forever to pay off.

[Guest Heligan]

HI freinds..........I got myself in debt and desperately need to be free of it. Perchance, does anyone know or have recomendations for a service or sytem to elimindate debt??? You seem like a wise and caring group so I thought I would ask. Thanks Much

Umm it would help to know where you are in world.

I think what I have to say might be limited to UK.

The Citizens Advice Bureau are supposed to be good at negotiating with folk you owe money to.

If you owe over £15K you are eligible for an ISA (I have no idea what it entails- but presume it involves black marks on your credit) The ads are on TV all the time (especially daytime TV - I suppose that catches the people who lost their jobs, got ill etc)

But as others have said if its possible to pay it back, that is probably the best course of action... quick fixes could easily cost you more in long run- that credit rating really does affect the rates you get offered on credit cards and loans.... in the current climate your credit rating is especially important lenders are getting much more risk adverse.

[thylacine]

Hi. I'm a paralegal and I work for a law firm that does collections. We don't call people up at 1:00 a.m. and bother them about their bills, we do it the ethical way and we're honest -- as honest as any debt collectors can be! I swear. As a paralegal, I cannot give "legal advice," but I can only tell you what I have seen from what I do...

Are you getting what we call "30 day letters?" Don't ignore them... Have you gotten a Summons yet? If not, you're not doing that bad! Yet...

If collectors contact you, keep the communication open. Don't hide. When debtors ingore us, or act rude, or call us up at our office and swear at us... well, it wouldn't be professional of me to say... but if I were you, I would not do any of the following: call the collector and swear, talk rude, or argue, don't deny you owe the debt, and don't try to hide from collectors. They know where you live! We have ways... !

Communicate, stay calm, and try to "work out a payment plan" -- one that you can afford to manage.

Anyway, when I was in paralegal school, we discussed this in several classes. First, be very careful of these "agencies" that say they will help you with your debt. A lot of them just take your money and don't do much but send letters to the creditor's attorneys, and that kind of stuff really does not help. The exception mentioned by the professor was the CCCS, which means Consumer Credit Counseling Service -- she said it was the ONLY decent debt counseling service. Look online to see if there is a branch in your area. But other than CCCS, don't bother with debt settlement agencies. They just prey on people's desperation.

If people are trying to contact you by mail, don't ignore it. Write back. Try and work out a payment plan. If they pressure you into paying all at once, talk them down. Don't let debt collectors scare you, because a lot of them work that way. If debt collectors call you and try to scare you, remain calm. If they call you, write to them and demand they only contact you through the mail. Debt collectors are not supposed to speak with friends, family, neighbors or co-workers about your debt, and some of them do this in order to intimidate you. If they do this, they are in violation of the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Look that up and print it out, read it and study it, get to know it. It will come in handy to know the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. It is your friend!

You might check around locally for attorneys that do a free consult and discuss bankruptcy. There is Chapter 7 and Chapter 13. In Chapter 13, you work out how to pay things off. President Bush changed the bankruptcy laws to make things easier for businesses and tougher for regular people. It also costs money to file bankruptcy, so that is another bill. You must pay the filing fee, and pay the attorney's fees also... ! I cannot tell you what to do, but it's not something I would do unless the situation was really bad. But with Bankruptcy, all collection procedure stops, unless the collectors do a motion and try and collect certain types of debt. Certain types of debts must be paid, like child support, and I believe taxes (but I'm not sure, because the other paralegal does more bankruptcy stuff than I do). Some people get dismissed from bankruptcy, and because of the new law, cannot file again for a few years (forget the time frame).

If your not yet at the stage where collectors are bugging you, then I would suggest you probably just buy things you need like food & stuff and concentrate on paying more than the minimum each month to get your debt down, and maybe take a second job in addition to your day job. (I work Mon-Fri at a law firm, and have a weekend job too).

And folks, don't be too hard on Pinkfizzle here... I know it's irresponsible to get into debt, but it's a common mistake and easy to do. They offer credit cards to college kids who have little to no experience with finance, and that sets a trap that's easy to fall into.

Another thing, look up this book "Maxed Out" at your library. There is also a video that goes with the book, but they come separately. Both the book and the movie are awesome. Good luck. Hang in there. And if the Cambeci Law Firm starts after you, remember that he is known in the business as "Tough Tony" so if you get that jerk then it's time to pack your things and head for South America where they can't find you...

[weweweallthewayhome]

Sorry to hear you're in that situation, pinkfizzie. It's good that you want to take action to improve your situation. Folks get in bad situations for a variety of reasons--poor health is something that can really reak havoc.

Credit counselors are good and bad. This article might be helpful: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banki...Counseling.aspx

With background research, hard work, and thriftiness, you have a good shot at coming out ahead.

Good luck!

[fairview]

Step 5: Look at your remaining credit bills. Can you make the minimum payments on all bills and have money left over. If yes all of the remaining uncommitted funds goes to the credit company with the lowest balance. Continue this until that one is paid off. Shred the card. Now take all of the money you were paying on the first card to the new lowest balance. Continue this and repeat. You will never get out of debt by paying minimum payments. If you don't have enough cash to go around as described above, contact all your creditors and tell them you are in trouble. Tell them they are going to get paid and when they will start seeing the money. Start with the lowest balance and work upwards. Stay on schedule, keep your commitments. This will take a new level of maturity you obviously don't have at the moment or you wouldn't have gotten in this situation to begin with.

Another thing I might suggest is, if there are several places that you owe, see if it's possible to transfer balances from one account to another. This would help if one account has a lower interest rate - you want to owe as little as possible in places that have the highest interest rates, so transferring to the lower interest ones would be more efficient. If this is not possible, consider paying off those accounts that have the highest interest instead of those with the lowest balance, unless those accounts have huge balances that would take forever to pay off.

Better idea if the accounts that were zeroed out are closed. Keeping them open is a liability to use them again. I got to the point one day that I decided we had too much unsecured credit, over 20K. I rounded up all the credit cards, looked at the balances. Instead of making a payment slightly higher than the minimum on all, we reduced all payments to the minimum and took all the extra $$$ and put it on the lowest balance. The first six months was incredibly slow to see any progress. After a year, we were making $1500 payments, the last six months we were making $4000 and had everything paid off in two years from the start. Rolling it up from the bottom gives a sense of accomplishment because you can actually say, that bill is no more.

[hoku]

Step 5: Look at your remaining credit bills. Can you make the minimum payments on all bills and have money left over. If yes all of the remaining uncommitted funds goes to the credit company with the lowest balance. Continue this until that one is paid off. Shred the card. Now take all of the money you were paying on the first card to the new lowest balance. Continue this and repeat. You will never get out of debt by paying minimum payments. If you don't have enough cash to go around as described above, contact all your creditors and tell them you are in trouble. Tell them they are going to get paid and when they will start seeing the money. Start with the lowest balance and work upwards. Stay on schedule, keep your commitments. This will take a new level of maturity you obviously don't have at the moment or you wouldn't have gotten in this situation to begin with.

Another thing I might suggest is, if there are several places that you owe, see if it's possible to transfer balances from one account to another. This would help if one account has a lower interest rate - you want to owe as little as possible in places that have the highest interest rates, so transferring to the lower interest ones would be more efficient. If this is not possible, consider paying off those accounts that have the highest interest instead of those with the lowest balance, unless those accounts have huge balances that would take forever to pay off.

Better idea if the accounts that were zeroed out are closed. Keeping them open is a liability to use them again. I got to the point one day that I decided we had too much unsecured credit, over 20K. I rounded up all the credit cards, looked at the balances. Instead of making a payment slightly higher than the minimum on all, we reduced all payments to the minimum and took all the extra $$$ and put it on the lowest balance. The first six months was incredibly slow to see any progress. After a year, we were making $1500 payments, the last six months we were making $4000 and had everything paid off in two years from the start. Rolling it up from the bottom gives a sense of accomplishment because you can actually say, that bill is no more.

Apparently closing a credit card account hurts your credit history though. I don't know if that's true, but it does make sense - they want to keep you as a customer so that you would be tempted to use their high interest rates again.

[Sally]

It sounds like in this poster's case, the credit is already bad, so that's not much of a concern.

What you need is pretty simple: will power. If you don't want to owe, don't buy. And if you want to get rid of your debts, you'll have to pay them off. All the "credit advisers", professional and amatuer, in the world won't keep you from having to do that.

So -- we've all given you advice, and we haven't offered you any money to help pay them off. Is that what you wanted?

[Cacille]

www.suzeorman.com

Get her book, Women and Money. Love it, and it really helped me focus on what was really important.

I do have to correct ONE important thing that someone said and add a few things of my own.

-Pay off the credit card with the HIGHEST INTEREST RATE FIRST. Not the one with the lowest balance, unless you only have a few hundred left on it.

-KEEP ONE CREDIT CARD OPEN, but pay off the balance and don't put any on it.

-CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY and see if they can lower your interest rate.

If you have a ton of plastic from department stores, GET RID OF THEM. 21% interest rates are murder. Never, EVER fall for their "10% off your first purchase with the opening of a new credit card" gimmik again.

And last but not least:

-TRY TO PUT SOME OF THAT "extra money" YOU GET INTO SAVINGS! 10% of your paycheck if you can, put in a savings account. If you have a bad month with your car or health, you'll need that extra money so you can continue to pay your bills while fixing the issue.

[Shadow girl]

Try United Way. They are reputable and my mom is trying to eliminate her debt as well through them.

[Lunacy]

I know that this is the older asexuals forum and that I don't really belong here since I'm only 20 years old, but I just wanted to add a few things.

Many people seem to assume that having debts is the result of irresponsible, immature behaviour, and that only people who don't know how to manage their money, live beyond their means and overspend using their credit cards get debts. It offends me. A lot.

Not everyone who have debts are irresponsible people! For instance, some of the people who have debts are poor students who can't afford to get a post-secondary education without borrowing student loans from the government. A lot of us have jobs to make ends meet, and we certainly don't all live beyond our means as some of us barely have enough to eat because education is so expensive. I have $11 000 of debts, and my older sister who goes to university has $60 000 of debts and we certainly will owe even more in the future. I come from a small town in which there weren't many job opportunities. My parents are very poor and didn't help us pay for our studies, and we couldn't afford to pay for our education in addition to paying a rent and buying enough food to survive. So we borrowed money. And now we have tons of debts. This is a though world. I think it's unfair that rich kids who get their parents to pay everything for them in addition to having been born in more privileged environment should be the only ones to be able to get an education. Some of us poor people are trying to get out of this poverty by getting a higher education and a well-paying career. This is harder than it seems. It is not immature and irresponsible of us. Every student at school who don't have debts look down on us who do have them, even though some of those same students told me their parents pay for their education. Instead of judging people and calling them immature because they owe large sums of money, try to understand where they're coming from. Unlike what some people say, not everyone has the same opportunities in life. I know this. Those who are born poor are more likely to be in debts, even if they work hard to get an education. I think it's very, very unfair to judge people who have debts.

With that said, I don't have any suggestion for getting rid of your debts. I have the same problem as you, and it's not because I'm some immature, lazy deadbeat who overspent by living beyond her means with a credit card.

[Sally]

This is indeed a tough world, and most of us do know that not everyone has the same opportunities. I don't think anyone posting on this particular topic said the original poster was immature.

However, debts are debts. That's what we said. Anyone who has those debts owes them and must pay them, or has to find some legal way to get out of them. That's what we said also.

There are ways to go to school without getting $60,000 into debt before you're into your mid-20s. No one -- no one, not your parents or this society as a whole -- is forcing you or your sister or anyone to get into such debt. I think probably many people on this forum, since it usually draws people who are quite a bit older, have gone to school over long periods of time, while working at whatever you can, and then stopping school for a while to build up a little more money. That is one way to avoid such debt. It took my ex-husband 18 years to get a degree, because he worked fulltime while going to school. That certainly isn't ideal, but it's possible, and he didn't end up owing tens of thousands of dollars.

You cannot assume that just because you want to do something, or want to do it in a certain way, that any hindrance on you doing so is unfair. As far as I know, no one has been promised that their life will be fair. Wealthy parents are great to have. If you don't have them, then you do what's next best. That probably isn't going head-over-heels in debt.

[Lunacy]

This is indeed a tough world, and most of us do know that not everyone has the same opportunities. I don't think anyone posting on this particular topic said the original poster was immature.

However, debts are debts. That's what we said. Anyone who has those debts owes them and must pay them, or has to find some legal way to get out of them. That's what we said also.

There are ways to go to school without getting $60,000 into debt before you're into your mid-20s. No one -- no one, not your parents or this society as a whole -- is forcing you or your sister or anyone to get into such debt. I think probably many people on this forum, since it usually draws people who are quite a bit older, have gone to school over long periods of time, while working at whatever you can, and then stopping school for a while to build up a little more money. That is one way to avoid such debt. It took my ex-husband 18 years to get a degree, because he worked fulltime while going to school. That certainly isn't ideal, but it's possible, and he didn't end up owing tens of thousands of dollars.

You cannot assume that just because you want to do something, or want to do it in a certain way, that any hindrance on you doing so is unfair. As far as I know, no one has been promised that their life will be fair. Wealthy parents are great to have. If you don't have them, then you do what's next best. That probably isn't going head-over-heels in debt.

This is the part that offended me:

This will take a new level of maturity you obviously don't have at the moment or you wouldn't have gotten in this situation to begin with. And if you think I don't have compassion and concern for deadbeats, you are absolutely correct.

It just frustrates me that someone who is in debts is being called a "deadbeat" by someone who has no idea why the person has debts on the first place.

I know that it's a choice I've made to have debts in order to get a university degree. I know that I must accept the consequences of my actions. I just said that people who do have debts aren't necessarily irresponsible and lazy.

If I hadn't chosen to move to Ottawa in order to get a college degree, I would still be stuck in the same small, isolated town where I grew up, in which there are very few job opportunities and in which most people are on welfare or live in the streets and deal drugs. Some of the people I grew up with in that town ended up like this. I made a very big effort to move away from this town and I didn't see any other way out but to borrow money in order to start college. It wasn't easy, and I think that if I hadn't decided to borrow money in order to move away I'd still be in that small town, on welfare or dealing drugs or prostituting myself to earn a living like most of my poor friends from high school ended up doing.

I know that debts aren't the best choice in life and that they can be avoided. But in the situation in which I was, I really couldn't see any other way out. And I don't believe that it's okay to say that the OP is irresponsible as long as we don't know what situation made him/her have debts.

[Lucinda]

Angel dear,

If you are planning to pay back your college loans as opposed to hoping there is a way they will magically disappear, then you are not a deadbeat.

Lucinda

[Sally]

If you made what you feel is the best choice -- the only choice for you, in that situation -- then just pursue that choice. What none of us can do is control what others' reactions are going to be to our choices. If you put yourself out there, you will get both praise and criticism, understanding and opposition. What you feel you must do is what should be important to you. If I -- or anyone else -- think it's the wrong choice, and tell you so, you're probably not going to convince us otherwise. Just resolve to do it without anyone's approval, because not everyone will approve, nor will they necessarily have sympathy for you. Everybody comes with their own experiences. Mine have included raising two kids, one of whom is disabled, on my own on low wages. One of the hardest things was realizing that not everyone thought I was doing the right thing. So I had to stop expecting approval and asking for it and complaining when I didn't get it, because I needed my strength for just doing what I had to do. So will you.

[Lunacy]

If you made what you feel is the best choice -- the only choice for you, in that situation -- then just pursue that choice. What none of us can do is control what others' reactions are going to be to our choices. If you put yourself out there, you will get both praise and criticism, understanding and opposition. What you feel you must do is what should be important to you. If I -- or anyone else -- think it's the wrong choice, and tell you so, you're probably not going to convince us otherwise. Just resolve to do it without anyone's approval, because not everyone will approve, nor will they necessarily have sympathy for you. Everybody comes with their own experiences. Mine have included raising two kids, one of whom is disabled, on my own on low wages. One of the hardest things was realizing that not everyone thought I was doing the right thing. So I had to stop expecting approval and asking for it and complaining when I didn't get it, because I needed my strength for just doing what I had to do. So will you.

I know and I understand that. I shouldn't expect people to approve everything I do.

My reaction isn't really just caused by what I read here. In college my classmates regularly criticize me, judge me and argue with me because I have debts and they don't (mostly because a lot of them live with their parents instead of paying a rent, and their parents helped them pay for college). It hurts me sometimes because I really couldn't think of any other way out. But I know that I just have to learn to live with it.

When finish college I'm planning to get a career to pay back all my debts. That's what I keep telling people. Yet they still call me lazy, even though I work hard.

[gravity_defiant]

If you are planning to pay back your college loans as opposed to hoping there is a way they will magically disappear, then you are not a deadbeat.

Personally, I am doing both. ;) Nothing wrong with hoping!

More productively: When paying off credit card debt, shouldn't you start with the card with the highest interest rather than the lowest balance?

[Sally]

I know it's hard. I'm 47 years old than you and I still find it hard to not get approval of what I do. I don't think that ever gets easier, really. We all want the approving parents some of us had and some of us didn't, and we want them with us all our lives, to insulate us from people who don't seem to care how we feel.

You'll make it.

[Lunacy]

I know it's hard. I'm 47 years old than you and I still find it hard to not get approval of what I do. I don't think that ever gets easier, really. We all want the approving parents some of us had and some of us didn't, and we want them with us all our lives, to insulate us from people who don't seem to care how we feel.

You'll make it.

Thanks for the encouragment. I really think I'll make it.

[M51]

I think how to get out of debt depends on what kind of debt. So far everyone seems to be assuming it is credit cards and lifestyle, but my step mother found herself $300,000 in debt after her mother died slowly from cancer over several years. What should my mother have done, just not paid for her mother's treatment? So not everyone in debt is irresponsible.

I don't know how old you are or what country you are in, but if you are suffering from college loans in the US, and you are really that desperate, I do actually, in fact, know of an entity that will pay up to $65,000 of college loans directly to the lender.

This entity will GIVE YOUR LENDER $65,000, and never ask for a penny of it back from you.

This entity is the US Army. So serve your country four years, get out of debt, AND have a respectable paycheck every month during those four years to do as you please with - buy a new car, save up for a down payment on a house, blow it on parties. Your whole paycheck goes to you because you will not have to make another college loan payment ever again. It is actually not a bad deal, considering that paying off the $65,000 by working two or three jobs and eating Ramen noodles for 4 years ( or more, most likely) is probably less pleasant. They give $10,000 for the reserves if active duty is too much to ask.

As far as I know that is the only way to get someone else to pay your debt, and that only applies to college loans and only works if you are willing to do something in return for getting rid of your debt. And actually I think that website is outdated. I think it is over $72,000 now....

NOTE: I am not a recruiter, nor am I recruiting. Just someone who wishes she had racked up $65,000 worth of college loans BEFORE she joined the Army!!!! My mental jaw drops every time I think of how much they are giving away, and I thought someone else might find it interesting/promising. And for the record, the Army has been very good to me. It does offer a lot of opportunities to anyone willing to work for them.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/clrp.htm

[gravity_defiant]

As far as I know that is the only way to get someone else to pay your debt,

You can get a good chunk of student loans forgiven by teaching for 5 (I think?) years in a Title I--aka low-income--school, or in certain high-needs subject areas. And you're a whole lot less likely to get shot at doing that.

I think some other professions have similar deals, too.

[Cacille]

This entity is the US Army.

I knew of this entity. I actually would not have minded going into this entity to help me pay off my education.

Except for the fact that the Army and all other such militaries are PICKY when it comes to their people's health. Because I have a minor blood disorder, I am disqualified. So, some of us cannot do this convenient debt-relief. I have well over $50,000 of debt (ALL from college loans, my other debt totals less than $2000 currently and is fast being paid off now), had absolutely no help from my parents, did not get any free money from entities because I wasn't the BEST student, etc.

However I will say this. Though I am finishing my college now, I am paying off one of the loans being given to me while going to college. I work 50-70 hours a week most weeks. Am I lazy for having so much college debt? If so, I want to know your (collective/generic "you" here) definition of lazy.

[Sally]

Whether the Army is a good bet depends on what the Army is doing at the moment. At this particular moment -- not 10 years ago, but NOW-- people are getting killed and, possibly worse, maimed physically and mentally for life in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe that's worth a paid-for education; that's a personal decision.

People who take out loans for college are not lazy; no one said that. However, I know many who have taken out loans, gotten their degree, and now can't find jobs that pay enough to be able to pay for their loans. Some have such trouble paying that they can't pay for anything else. Some have had to default, which affects their credit. Some (especially some lawyers I know) hate their profession but have to continue in it because it's the only thing that pays well enough so that they can pay off their school loans and still have some other things, like a life.

Doing college loans is a difficult choice because you have to think of what happens later, AFTER you've used the money on the education and you have to pay it back. It is just what it says: a loan. There's the rub.

[pinkfizzie]

I thank everyone so very much, Honestly some of it was tough to read but most of the replies were quite helpful. I have supported myself quite nicely since a teenager. I was a nurse for many years, worked tons of overtime, got a masters degree. I owned a home and a townhome. travelled the world ,had nice things. except for a mortgage all paid in cash, Then one day my vision in my good eye was partly gone. The other eye was bad as a brain tumor (expensive replacement meds) had damaged the optic nerve. I have been very generous and have given away over 70,000 dollars to people and animals in need. I have since gonc on disablity and that is no easy feat in the U.S.. i have primarily used my 2 credit cards for medicine and living expenses. I have NEVER EVER missed a payment. my credit score is top notch, I want to act preemptively so as to avoid the calls and harrassment. I just think I am at the point of screwing up and getting behind as I only pay the minimum due. So I will take your advice and get some of this info and then decide. Life happens, 10 years ago I would have called you kookoo if you told me this would occur. With this post I was merely looking for suggestions , not judgement or anything else. At 51 I am washed up. thanks again everone.