Questions About Transgendered & Neutral Gendered People

[TheCousin]

Hello,

I've been looking at this site for a few weeks now, ever since my cousin Robin (also an AVEN surfer) came out to me. I've gotten a little bit better understanding of things as I've read posts. Dare I say that I've even enjoyed reading them too?

But I've read so much on trans-gendered people, neutral-gendered people, and people who are unhappy with thier gender. I hope you don't think my questions are ignorant. Well, actually they are in the truest sense of the word. So I hope you don't think I'm being rude or patronizing or anything. This is stuff I've always wanted to know about and I thought, why not get it from people who have first hand knowledge?

So first of all, What exactly is a "trans-gendered" person? I've read some things on the subject, but it was all third-person information, not offering any real insight into this. How does a person identify himself/herself as "trans-gendered?

Okay, next is, what exactly is a "neutral-gendered" person. Is that a person who identifies with niether sex? Why would a person do that?

Third of all, and I've seen this somewhat on this site, why would a person be unhappy with his or her gender? Why would a person be angry at being born male or female? In contrast, my cousin Robin has identified herself as non-sexual, yet she's never had gender issues. She was born a female, has always identified herself as such, and likes being a woman. (Understand that I'm not belittling anyone, but Robin is the only basis of comparison and contrast that I have).

So I hope no one thinks I'm being rude or too personal here. But I'd just like to get a better understanding of these things. If it helps, I've gotten a better understanding of asexuality (or non-sexuality as Robin calls it) by having people explain it to me.

Thank you.

"Cindy"

[jr1]

Transgender is gender identity not matching assigned gender

neutral-gendered is the mixing of masculine and feminine characteristics

[emmarainbow]

Not mixing, as such, as I understand it, but wishing to be without any masculinty OR femininity. Although I'm not the best person to comment on this!

Being asexual is separate from gender identity issues, I believe... :D There are just a fair few of them on AVEN! (And the forum is richer for this. :D)

[Mad Larkin]

as someone who considers themselves gender neutral, it is not a mixing of both masculine and feminine,but more a feeling that you are neither male or female,at least that is the way i see it

[rosegirl]

So first of all, What exactly is a "trans-gendered" person? ... How does a person identify himself/herself as "trans-gendered?

OK, to understand this, it is easy, (and amazingly over-simplified) to view humans as two genders. Male and female. The vast majority view this as sensible, as there are assumed to be two sets of sex chromosome possibilities. XX = female, XY = male. This leads to two physical possibilities. Female (having a vagina) and male (having a penis).

Most people who are XX chromosones and have a vagina see themself as female and are completely accepting of that.

Most people who are XY chromosomes and have a penis see themselves as male and are completely happy with that.

This leads to two complex explanations of gender.

First is our sex, which is basically if we have a penis or vagina.

Then there is our gender identity, which is what we feel ourselves to be.

Everything is fine as long as our sex and our gender identity match.

Unfortunately in life things are always more complex. There are a small number of people who feel strongly to the point of knowing that they are female even though they possess a penis. And a similar number of people who know that they are male despite being born with a vagina. Currently there is no medical explanation for this. However this feeling generally manifests itself in young children (as young as three) before the child can possibly understand complex notions of gender identity. These people are transsexuals.

Then there are those who want to be the other sex for short periods, to long periods of time but who do not want to fully and permanently change their physical sex. These people range from people who dress up as the opposite sex (transvestites, cross-dressers), people who put on a performance (drag-kings, drag-queens) and people who like to swap from gender to gender (transgender, genderqueer). There is a whole spectrum and it can get very complicated with arguments over definitions going back and forth. However as I said this is trying to keep things simple.

Okay, next is, what exactly is a "neutral-gendered" person. Is that a person who identifies with niether sex? Why would a person do that?

OK, as well as people who want to be on the opposite side of the gender identity binary, there are also people who view gender identity not as male or female, but as a spectrum, going from ultra male on one end through to ultra-female on the other. They believe that every one is somewhere on this spectrum.

So a neutral gendered person regards themselves somewhere towards the middle of the spectrum. They range from people who are physically between the two (intersex) to people who regard themselves as genderless (neuter, neutrois, agender). They all fit in the supposed space between male and female gender identities, either feeling they are both, a mixture of both, or neither.

Some would regard themselves as androgynous, trying to dress and act in a non gender specific way, and some would like to go further with surgery if possible.

Third of all, and I've seen this somewhat on this site, why would a person be unhappy with his or her gender? Why would a person be angry at being born male or female?

A person would be unhappy with their gender if they knew it was wrong as in transgender. They would feel the need to change it if they were transsexuals. They would feel it imprisons then if they were neutral-gendered, etc. Again these are over-simplifications.

In contrast, my cousin Robin has identified herself as non-sexual, yet she's never had gender issues. She was born a female, has always identified herself as such, and likes being a woman.

Asexuality has nothing to do with sex or gender. In the same way that being heterosexual, homosexual, or bi-sexual, or pan-sexual have nothing to do with being male or female.

As I said at the start most people view themselves as the same identity as their physical sex. So most people regard themselves as sexual, regardless as whether they are actually having sex or not.

Asexuals have no desire to have sex. Many reasons have been put forward as to why.

So in short a person can be any gender and be either sexual or asexual.

A person can be transgender / transsexual / gender neutral / intersex and be either sexual or asexual.

With apologies to any one offended by some amazing over simplifications made to keep the length of this post down.

All my love,

Kate

[AVENCakes]

Okay, next is, what exactly is a "neutral-gendered" person. Is that a person who identifies with niether sex? Why would a person do that?

Technically we're transgendered as well. :) We also call ourselves 'neutrois' more commonly. Or Androgyne, which means 'both', neutral gender is more considered neutrois or 'no-gender'. I think Androgyne and Neutrois get confused because people think it's weird to have no gender.

I am neutrois, and, really,d on't feel any gender suits me. Why woudl you identify with your gender? It's just how you are. I really don't feel like a girl or boy, at all. Even more so- I don't feel like both. Why pretend to be something you're not? ^_^ I am neutrois, that's that.

Also, hon, you're on the wrong site. This is a much better one for TG questions: http://www.lauras-playground.com/ Well, one of the better ones.

[Mysteria]

So a neutral gendered person regards themselves somewhere towards the middle of the spectrum. They range from people who are physically between the two (intersex) to people who regard themselves as genderless (neuter, neutrois, agender). They all fit in the supposed space between male and female gender identities, either feeling they are both, a mixture of both, or neither.

I have a little quibble about terminology here--you said intersex, but I think in this case it would be better to use the term "intergendered." Intersex people are born with atypical genitals, or an atypical genital/chromosome combination, and so on. Like for example, people with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome would have XY chromosomes but since their bodies do not respond to "male" hormones, they develop as a typical woman's would, and often nobody realizes they have an intersex condition until much later in life. There are a myriad of these conditions, and just because a person has one, it doesn't mean that they will consider themselves transsexual or intergendered--in fact, many of them would find the notion that they constitute a "third sex" offensive. If you want more information on intersexed people, I would recommend going to http://www.intersexinitiative.org.

Intergendered people, on the other hand, feel that they are both genders at once. Like RDraconis said, this is different than feeling they have "no" gender.

Personally, I identify as intergendered. I feel there are two facets to my gender, which come together to form a whole. My "female" side is dominant, and asexual. My "male" side is pretty much invisible in day-to-day life, but it is the side of me that can experience sexual attraction and probably would act on it if the fact that I am physically female didn't negate it. So in my case, my gender does have something to do with my asexuality, as I consider it a probable cause.

If I could, I would love to be able to change my physical sex whenever I want to. If I could choose my sex, but I could only choose one and had to stick with it forever, then (in a perfect world, where this kind of body is considered acceptable) I would prefer to have a female-looking body, with both sets of genitals. I personally am happy being female rather than male, because I would rather live my life in the role of a woman, even I'm not really. I consider myself a lady, rather than a woman, because to me the word "lady" is a feminine ideal that transcends physical sex or gender. For this reason when describing my gender, I prefer to use the term "feminine androgyne."

Since I am living in my preferred social role, I don't consider myself transsexual. I really consider myself a "gender ninja" more than anything else, because I'm not exactly what I appear to be, and I'm perfectly happy with that.

I hope I've helped you understand at least a little bit better!

[Shinnok]

Third of all, and I've seen this somewhat on this site, why would a person be unhappy with his or her gender? Why would a person be angry at being born male or female?

I'm not angry at the fact I was born with the female sex. If gender and sex are two different things, then my sex is female and my gender is male. I identify as more male. I don't think I'm neutros because I feel more male than female or no gender. I'm Female to Male transgendered, I'm a straight female but my male side owuld be considered a gay male. The only reason I wanted to identify as the other gender is because I don't want anyone to be under the impression that just because my sex is female that I have to act like one too. I'm not angry at all that i was born female. I'm Christian, I don't believe God put me in the wrong body I believe I was put in the right body but that my mind identifies more as male. Just because I don't act like a girl doesn't mean I'd have to have a boys body. I sometimes wish I had one because I wouldn't have monthly periods, guys staring at me, and other girl problems. So, I just want to stay female but act male. I feel I was born with a guys mind in a girls body, but I'm not going to alter my body surgically.

[montypythonmad]

I always felt i should of been born male but now im in the middle. I have male and female qualities

[Parth]

I love the way I was born... intersexed. I'm an androgynous human with a female voice, vagina and uterus, but also with male hands, feet, height and buttocks :P

This is exactly the way I like it. Unfortunately for me, society and doctors want me to be more female by having me take estrogen, and I can't really say no because I'll get osteoporosis if I don't take it. This is my conundrum, and sadly I'm like the only one in the world in this predicament. :cry:

[Luthece]

Trans gender is when you are born with one gender but your auto image is that of the other gender

Bi gender is when you shift mentally from male to female back and forth depending on the situation and context

agender or intergender are ppl who identify him/herself with BOTH genders all times or with NEITHER genders all times

bi genders, agenders and intergenders are under the Androgynous gender spectrum.

Gender identity is always related to cultural gender roles, many things comes into account , things from traumas and more identification with one parent than another (that are the base gender role model) and many other causes. It is theorethically possible that in one culture a person identify more with male role and in other culture that same person would identify with female role.

Sometimes people question their gender based on their sexual preferences, but essentially these are two different aspects, one thing is how you feel about your role as what society expects from you <spits> another is attraction by this or that gender.

Gender role model is far greater than sexual preference but there is a lot of confusion on that.

Asexualism by what Ive learned so far, correct me if im wrong, is not an gender orientation but a sexual preference.

thats what I know =P

[Jordan]

Well I'm neuter, and from my perspective, I could NEVER, EVER, understand how this society constantly pounds the idea that each inidividual is unique, and at the same time expect us all to act like men or women. That contradiction is so huge (the size of mount Everest I say) that I just feel very flabbergast about it. If each individual is unique, then how can we simitaneously conform to gender roles?

[Luthece]

hah, Jordan, contradictions in the so called society are there exactly cos society is not an unique body, i a confluence of small infinite universes, there is estabilishment the status quo but we are at a crisis period, moral , religious and spiritual crisis, every crisis hold in itself the seed for a new period of order, like the Tao, the seed of chaos is within order and order within caos

Some physics theory show that trough the idea of Cosmic Variation and psychologists detects in humans the spontaneous retrogradation, the idea is, the seed, the need the origin happens, Marx based on chinese historiography saw that as the pendular movement of story, all these are the reflex of same principle

In a time of order there will be these singularities of thought and behaviour and they will do the first spasm to try to accomodate themselves, that is like the feminine movement for example, there were some before sure, like marie curie and also in other cultures, but as a movement, as an historical spasm in modern western culture...is not something very old.

We had the breaking with the sufragettes and all that, and then historical balance adopted the "oh so strange thing" as estabilishment, and recently women are wishing part of their lost "role" they wish to have the benefits of any free human being but also, they want to be able to chose not work and be courted and not be seen like lesser women.

Well all this ranting was just to illustrate that , contradiction is part of the historical and sociological process specially on such ever changing society in such times of great changes ending a cycle and beginning other =)

kisses to you all

[Jordan]

Luthece, you need to improve your English.

[Luthece]

I know, Im a non native speaker, you should see my german, french or my italian is worst than my english >.<

[CopyFox]

You've touched on a complex set of questions. There's been some great answers so far that have explained the definitions of words and such, so I'll just throw in my own tidbit about why I, personally, am uncomfortable with gender at all.

You see, it's not that I'm uncomfortable with my body (my sex), it's that I don't like the connotations that come with being female. I'm sure if I was born as a male, it would be the same. Each gender has certain stereotypical social roles they are expected to fill. I've always resented that expectation, esp. when I defy it and just be myself and people look at me funny. It's because of these social expectations and stereotypes that I dislike the idea of gender, and am uncomfortable being referred to as female or looked at [through the eyes of society] as a female.

I don't think anyone (and science will back me on this) can be referred to as purely female or purely male, yet there are still these social ideas in our world, roles we are expected to fill. So for me, I only pay attention to gender the barest minimum amount, and otherwise try to ignore it. I try to judge people on character only.