Poll for boys! (Keep away girls, you really won't like it)

[junie99]

I know that this thread was only for the men, but curiosity got the best of me and I had to see what the poll was about. Anyway, here is a link that may be of interest...http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/

[Bee]

This is a brilliant thread. 8)

I just bin those letters that come thru asking for intimate examinations and the like. I refuse to discuss anything that personal with my GP or any other. It was bad enough when i registered with a GP once, and the nurse gave me a big lecture on contraception!! :oops:

The present advice in england is that the only people who do not need a cervical smear done every three years are people who have never been sexually active ever. (and women who are post menopausal)

Thank god for that!!!

[Cosmos]

Hi "boa" and many thanks for your good responses to my posting. We do agree on alot except aesthetitcs, I guess. The poll I mentioned merely shows a rate of "approval" among some men and as I said it is hardly scientific. I agree with you, in an ideal world, an adult should make the choice for themselves, but as we men are such a squeamish bunch, esp "down there" the circ rate would probably fall to near zero and that would be bad news. I understand that there is far more to good sexual health than whether or not you were cut, but male circumcision does seem to be frequently at least a small factor in safer sexual health for all of us. Meticulous washing for guys with a foreskin is really the most important message for you and for society in general. Fidelity, loyalty, use of a condom, chastity, treating a partner with total respect, these are issues that sexually active men need to take on board with more urgency and vigour. For truly asexual men it is still equally important to keep the "family jewels" cleaned up, I reckon.

This debate is one that should continue down the centuries, I guess it will and trust that diversity continues.

[Doc]

Hey, cool link Juni! Wohoo! The organisation is called DOC.

YEAH!!! Go my ego.

-Doc

[Rabger]

That, and aestheticlly it's very beautiful, adding to the non-ick factor.

Loving someone can make the difference, for sure, but concerning it aestheticlly, we differ there. I think beautiful would be the last word to come to mind. :oops: <---this would look better green)

[LostDaemon]

Well, I may have to revise my opinion. I read the DOC page, and I'm pretty convinced now that circumcision is almost completely unnecessary, excluding of course the extreme circumstances of injury or actual function-inhibiting deformity. As it stands, should i be presented with the choice to or not to circumcise a child, or anyone else, I would say no without medical reasons. So any gods-forsaken maggots of mine shall be uncut until they can decide for themselves.

I still find circumcised genitalia as more aesthetically pleasing, somehow. But my personal preferences needn't endanger or harm anyone else. It's something like how I can find scars beautiful, I think - that which should not be exposed, is. Then again, I can find an eviscerated body beautiful too...so my aesthetic pleasures are rather suspect!

I dread to think of what LS will consider of this post now...I'm not going to disembowel you, sweetie, really!

-LD

[fluffy_hime]

I dread to think of what LS will consider of this post now...I'm not going to disembowel you, sweetie, really!

...Yet...

[LostDaemon]

<giggles, crosses her fingers, and waits for the LS to find the post...>

I'm not actually violent. I just like seeing the wake of violence...sometimes. It has to be artistically done, else I don't like it...so Im very unlikely to hurt anyone besides myself without becoming a serial killer, and seeing as that's illegal, it's not going to happen, no matter how antisocial I am.

-LD

[Davey]

..Um. Regarding STDs and STIs.. isn't that one of the things we're glad we don't have to worry about? Except for the 'I'll live with it for you, sweetie' people, I suppose. Bizarre to me.

And, at risk of hijacking:

LD, I do the same thing - appreciate artistic violence, I mean. Or, rather, I like to imagine new and creative ways to torture and kill my enemies :twisted:. I've always thought I'd make a great serial killer, and if I a week to live, that's what I'd do :twisted:.

--davidey

[Guest]

Man, we're really adding fuel to the whole "VIOLENCE = SEXUAL REPRESSION!!!111" fire, aren't we? :P

Just kidding, violent fantasize away! I mean, don't we all? ;)

[LostDaemon]

Oh I don't know...I was the most violent, and actually acted upon that violence, when I was engaging in the most sexual activity. That is, when I was 14. Fortunately that only lasted a year...horrible year of hormones an pain and a lot of crap. But I grew out of it, leaving only my general sadism and litle desire to act upon it. Schadenfeude is enough for me these days.

-LD :twisted:

[Guest]

Yes, that is mostly the reason why I am thankful I will never be in a relationship. I would probably end up killing them somehow..."accidentally." :P

[bard of aven]

Any chance of returning this discussion to it's originally announced form of violence?

boa

[Guest]

Sorry. Here's something that's actually on topic.

According to the good folks at the Snopes message board, (a site for debunking myths that often goes into political debate) many doctors will pressure parents into circumsizing their children. Even if the parents refuse, there have been cases where doctors have pretended to mix the child up with another child and circumsize them. After reading this about a year ago, it cemented it in my mind that cirumsision was crazy.

[Autumn]

that cant be right... why would a doctor risk being sued in order to remove a bit of skin when its really the parents choice anyway??

[fluffy_hime]

Davey, when were we talking about STIs? I'm confused.

LD & Davey: I think there is probably a difference between "liking" violence or someone injured, and perhaps the concept behind it. Let me explain. In anime, scars are often used as a description of the character. That they had a difficult past, are tough, down-to-earth, etc. And blood/injuries are sometimes used (or always, based on what you're watching), and in my mind it represents the sacrifice/honor/nobility of a character, who is willing to fight/bleed/even die for what they believe in.

That, or you guys just like someone else being in pain. :shock:

[wilco]

I was "altered" as an infant. I'm not bitter about it, but I would prefer to have been left natural. My parents didn't know any better, they were just going with societal norms and doctor's recommendations, I guess. In the unlikely event that I have children, I do not intend to have them subjected to this.

[blkpoca23]

Thanks, guys, for the topic. It's been something that I've been wondering about for years, but guys don't really talk about it. I'm happy I came on in. :D

Even crazier: circumcision for chicks. :shock: Lord!

[Silly Green Monkey]

Female circumcision is never as light as male circumcision, it's equivalent to having the entire "package" removed.

[ghiangelo]

from what i've been able to surmise, from my own thoughts and research, circumcision is a symbolic emasculation.

ancient Egyptians did it and from there the Hebrews followed. it's part of the covenant relationship between YHWH (God) and the ancient Hebrew community. it comes down to a 'deal' between god and man where in return for godly favors men had to symbolically remove their penises and 'give' them over to God. it is suggested that YHWH was considered a male deity without a sexual organ. circumcision provides YHWH an opportunity to use man's genitals as His own for pleasure and procreating the 'children of God'. the Old Testament covenant is, at it's most fundamental level, centered on a fertility rite.

ghi

ps. speaking of genitals, the AVEN logo looks like a graphical female pubis. does anyone here know of it's origin and meaning?

[Jayann]

Let's not forget about female circumcision, which is equally a form of genital mutilation.

Ghiangelo, yes, there was in fact a whole thread about the AVEN symbol. To quote AVENguy, from that thread:

I agree that it's a bit of a stretch. Not necissarily immature, but not enough of a parelell to be a problem (It's BLACK TRIANGLE for chrissake.) There are,however, a coupla other problems with the symbol, namely:

A) it's based on a limited system that I don't agree with anymore. It implies that asexual folk can't experience gendered attraction, which many do. Also it uses a binary notion of gender, and the whole idea of having a scale from 0-10 of sexual intensity is also problematic.

B) It's simple, which is good, but I'm afraid that someone somewhere has it copywrited and we might start getting in trouble. Is anyone a lawyer/does anyone know a lawyer who could check this out easily?

[fluffy_hime]

circumcision provides YHWH an opportunity to use man's genitals as His own for pleasure and procreating the 'children of God'.

Uh, what? Where did you obtain these views?

[ghiangelo]

thanks j, although the explaination is a bit crytptic...

unfortunately female circumcision doesn't have any 'divine' purpose as the ancient male circumcision did. instead the female version is pure and simple sexist mutilation for the purpose of subjective control. and it's still performed to this day!

g

[Jayann]

Actually, I think female circumcision is popular in several cultures as a religious event. I believe some areas of Africa use it as a coming of age custom that has spiritual relevance. Anyone who is more knowledgable in that area than I may feel free to add, or correct.

At any rate, religious or not, it does not lessen the fact that people's genitals are being mutilated.

Also, sorry, upon rereading, the response I gave concerning the symbol may be construed as confusing if you don't know the history of the symbol. For info on the symbol, please read this page. http://asexuality.org/Theory/asexuality.htm

[Davey]

ghiangelo, please explain your thoughts about God using the genitals of the Jews for fun? It's a rather bold statement, and rather contrary to all of the things I've ever been taught (that the bris is a symbol of the Jews' covenant with God and also an easy way to identify commitment in adults [Abraham had to be circumsised at some centuries old.. that's commitment!]). We did have a thread about the AVEN symbol.. ah. here it is.

My opinion regarding the symbol amounts essentially amount to GET YOUR MINDS OUT OF THE GUTTER! I'm the fourteen year old boy - I'M supposed to notice that stuff! (But I didn't - it looks like a triangle to me)

--davidey

[fluffy_hime]

ghiangelo, please explain your thoughts about God using the genitals of the Jews for fun?

LOL! Davey, you're a riot. And I actually did laugh out loud. I spit all over my keyboard. :D

[Davey]

circumcision provides YHWH an opportunity to use man's genitals as His own for pleasure

He said it, not me. I just paraphrased.

Sorry about the keyboard :D

--davidey

[guardianoftheblind]

I'm a bit disappointed that my mother didn't think I could grow to learn how to wash myself properly.

I think Jewish circumcision had a lot to do with cultural identity. The Biblical Hebrews had many ways to set themselves apart from all the other groups, the biggest of course being that they were 'chosen' by YHWH but the other most popular today are the food laws (although there are believed to be some pragmatic ideas behind those). I'd say circumcision is still practiced in the religion today because of strong faith in traditions and because it's part of 'being Jewish', those concepts also play a big role in the incredible fact that there are Jews in the world today.

As originally indicated I think the hygiene logic for non-Jewish infant circumcision is hogwash.

Fairly unbiased/unopinionated basic female circumcision info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_circumcision

[ratatosk_lemur]

I think we must find a concrete study about circumcision and penile health. I just find it odd that living au naturel could be so hazardous to your health.

Personally I find it odd that so many people in society seem to be thrown back if someone is uncircumcised. Something along the lines of "Oh my God! Mr. Syphilis!"

What's also interesting is there are men who are trying to have the procedure reversed....I have a news link here...

http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSWeirdNews0101/29_...mcision-ap.html

Good on them. They may be cut, but they are my uncut brothers in spirit!

-Doc

I definitely wish I hadn't been circumcised at birth. Partly for aesthetic reasons, partly because I suspect if I had a foreskin protecting my glans I'd be able to wear boxer shorts without it getting irritated by them constantly, but largely because it just really bothers me on some level that it's missing. Ironically, I'd probably mind significantly less if the whole package was gone.

Have recently begun attempting to restore it; will see if it actually works. At least it feels good to think that I'm actually in control of the matter, which I think may be part of why it being missing bothers me so much.

[Glitter Spock]

PS- What are you girls doing here?!??!?!?!

I don't consider myself a girl/woman, but the topic title enticed my curiosity.

I think circumcision at birth for non-religious reasons is not good to do. You really should let the kid grow up first and deceide, because I don't think there has been enough research on diseases and such of circumcised and uncircumcised penii. Sure, a foreskin can get infected, but so can your tonsils and your appendix. Should tonsils and appendices be removed at birth too? I don't think doctors should remove organs at birth if they don't need to be immediately removed.