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Poll for boys! (Keep away girls, you really won't like it)


Doc

Hey boys, when you were born were you....  

  1. 1.

    • Left uncut, uncensored
      37
    • Had a scalpel taken to the end of the old chap
      49

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There is evidence that circumcision prevents UTI's, penile cancer, genital herpes and HIV infection. The following are links to some journal articles if your interested.

cancer- here is one article about the link. Its quite small scale though in this case.

here is an opinion on why the people who claim that it prevents cancer are wrong

there is also research going on into circumcision and HPV, the STD that causes cervical cancer in women. Its thought that circumcision of men is linked to lower rates of cervical cancer in women. There are some flaws in the present studies though.

here is an article about the connection between HIV and male circumcision.

prevention of UTI's is logical...as its mostly a hygeine issue.

i cant find a free full text version of any of the herpes and circumcision studies.

here is another interesting article about the differnces between practises in europe and america.

but... most of these problems (HIV, herpes etc) can be prevented by the corect usage of contraceptives. The other advantages are debatable. These benefits alone arent necessarily indicative of a need for routine circumcision in my opinion.

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I'm sorry "Bard of Aven" to disagree - medically it can be necessary to "snip" or "cut" or whatever term you prefer. I wasn't snipped at birth and my "early modification" was very very necessary when I was 3 years old. I can even recall to this day (I am now forty eight) the intense pain I suffered prior to the circumcision. My foreskin wouldn't retract sufficently to enable me to urinate properly and my bladder was seriously full all the time making me weep intensly. Fortunately the Doctor identied the problem and carried out the necessary "mod" to enable me to pee freely. The problem cannot be rare and I assure you it was a serious medical issue. In Britain, not many males get circumcised but I was and despite the pain and the tightness of the foreskin (which I can recall), I am very pleased I had the "snip".

I know it isn't scientific but in an MSN community on Circumcision there is a poll asking men their views on the subject and I recall that of the respondents 80% were happy and in favour of having been circumcised and the remainder was split (sorry!) between being unhappy or wanting/getting restoration surgery - 80% is quite a high satisfaction rate, I think.

On a further note concerning the tragedy of HiV/Aids, I well recall a BBC "Horizon" programme which went to Africa to resolve an intriguing question. Two tribes lived side by side, there was little or no sex education, let alone safe sex information and in one tribe most of the population was suffering with HiV with many of the men, sadly already dead. In the other tribe the population was strikingly healthy with HiV at very low levels despite the same lack of education/condoms etc.

Much research and head scratching was involved but they arrived at a conclusion eventually. The men in the healthiest tribe were all circumcised,

in the other tribe due to a cultural difference all the men retained their foreskins and on further examination the scientists explained that the area of foreskin just inside the glans was responsible for the retention of sexual diseases and the easier spread of Aids. I am not making this up I do assure you but neither am I suggesting that circumcision is an answer to a problem of far greater magnetitude, where the message of safe sex/condoms/fidelity etc...where all these issues matter far more.

Personally I return to my original thought that a circumcised penis is imho

a much prettier object - and as an asexual guy I also think more handsome when flaccid...not that I spend much time contemplating this as you see!

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Um. I'ma just go ahead and delete the first couple copies of that post.

For future reference, if you want to edit a post, there is a button in the upper right corner of the post which says Edit. Once the correction has been made, just hit Sumbit once.

You can also delete your most recent post (and your most recent post only) by clicking the little X button in the corner. I can't remember if you can delete posts that have been replied to, I tend to think not. But since I have Moderator powers, I'll get rid of them for you.

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fluffy_hime

I always thought it was for health reasons. And it's done very young because it's supposed to be the prime time (the best time to do it is supposed to be on Day 8 after birth, hence the biblical instructions).

I should probably stay out now, but it's interesting, because I always assumed everyone in the U.S. and Europe was, except the French. Don't ask.

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Live R Perfect

From the OTHER thread:

I'm with you liver.. a circumcised penis is much more likely to be in better health and depending on your viewpoint -" high and tight" is very beautiful.

Erm... I never said that! I was just posing the question about whether being circumcised was more hygienic. I have no particular preferences on how a penis may look, in fact I really don't want to have to look at any except my own if possible! :wink:

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y'know, on the whole reverse psychology issue, I wonder if it is better to say not to look. For me it depends on the person. naturally I'm not going to look if I believe the person's really going to be doing something I don't want to see, and often if I just think they're trying to keep me out they've probably got a good reason.

Perhaps I'm just not nosy enough.

If the title had been 'Girls keep out- hardcore porn inside' how many of you would've looked anyway?

Guys, don't even bother answering, we all would out of curiosity to see if there really was hardcore porn in there.

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fluffy_hime

I know no one here would actually post hard-core porn so the question is moot.

Reverse psychology is not actually a term used in psychology. There is something called "reactance theory" which basically is the same thing...people will want to do what you tell them not to.

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Posting this here so I can go and delete the off-shoot thread now.

---

they are often smelly, cheesy and just lacking in any grandeur. Enough of all this whinging here, any responsible virile male

and any aesthetically moved asexual male ought to appreciate that this body modification, which is often done for medical reasons - as in my case- is an enhancement to health and good looks.

Well, being female I can't exactly say I've had the experience, but I have taken way too many safe sex and health classes. Any sort of smelly "cheesey" stuff is because the person just isn't washing veyr well. Says more about personal hygiene than anything else. And I still don't believe its medical in nature. Really, it sprun from religion and the medical thing just became a rumor as time went on, I say. I'm all for natural anything. Whether its body parts or food, natural all the way.

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:shock: :?

for shit's sake, i feel like i'm in a [men's] locker room... :? :roll:

Guys don't talk about their sexuality in the locker room. Its taboo. Im not joking about this. Your allowed one quick glance when no one is looking and thats it. If some guy catches you spying his jimmy you're likely to get the shit kicked out of you. And this certainly leaves out talking about it.

k... then i feel like i'm in a GAY men's locker room.

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Why? It's not like the AVENmen are obsessing about their organs, or even making a show of it. Hell, there have been whole threads about menstruation AND breasts. Let the fellas discuss things that affect them as men.

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Maybe I've been exposed to the wrong men, perhaps, but I've always aesthetically preferred circumcised men. Guys just don't seem to be the most sanitary beings in existence, and as much as that is a generalisation, uncut has always smelled worse than cut to me. And cut hasn't always been that clean either...

<cringes> I hope never to have to deal with that again! It revolts me to think of genitalia in a general sense, expecially when it smells or it dirty in any way...ugh. I will admit I can deal with specific genitals on a certain person, but that's because I love him very much, and that rather overpowers the physical ick factor that could be there. That, and aestheticlly it's very beautiful, adding to the non-ick factor.

Beauty over ick...works for me!

-LD

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bard of aven
I'm sorry "Bard of Aven" to disagree - medically it can be necessary to "snip" or "cut" or whatever term you prefer. I wasn't snipped at birth and my "early modification" was very very necessary when I was 3 years old. I can even recall to this day (I am now forty eight) the intense pain I suffered prior to the circumcision. My foreskin wouldn't retract sufficently to enable me to urinate properly and my bladder was seriously full all the time making me weep intensly. Fortunately the Doctor identied the problem and carried out the necessary "mod" to enable me to pee freely. The problem cannot be rare and I assure you it was a serious medical issue.

Perhaps I needed to be clearer. I do not think we do disagree. Sometimes as in your case or that of my unfortunate cousin (your should pardon the expression) once removed, there is a compeling medical reason, and then by all means have it done. In such cases, it would be unethical NOT to have it done. What I object to is having it done to unknowing infants as a matter of course when there is not a compeling medical reason.

I know it isn't scientific but in an MSN community on Circumcision there is a poll asking men their views on the subject and I recall that of the respondents 80% were happy and in favour of having been circumcised and the remainder was split (sorry!) between being unhappy or wanting/getting restoration surgery - 80% is quite a high satisfaction rate, I think.

I have no problem with this. But on issues of body modification, I do think people should be left to make their own decisions when the are old enough, unless, as said, there is a medical reason for doing so earlier. Cutting an infant because right now 80% of people prefer it is a bit dicey from several perspectives.

On a further note concerning the tragedy of HiV/Aids, I well recall a BBC "Horizon" programme which went to Africa to resolve an intriguing question. Two tribes lived side by side, there was little or no sex education, let alone safe sex information and in one tribe most of the population was suffering with HiV with many of the men, sadly already dead. In the other tribe the population was strikingly healthy with HiV at very low levels despite the same lack of education/condoms etc.

Much research and head scratching was involved but they arrived at a conclusion eventually. The men in the healthiest tribe were all circumcised,

in the other tribe due to a cultural difference all the men retained their foreskins and on further examination the scientists explained that the area of foreskin just inside the glans was responsible for the retention of sexual diseases and the easier spread of Aids. I am not making this up I do assure you but neither am I suggesting that circumcision is an answer to a problem of far greater magnetitude, where the message of safe sex/condoms/fidelity etc...where all these issues matter far more.

I hadn't heard of this. Thanks for posting this info here.

Personally I return to my original thought that a circumcised penis is imho

a much prettier object - and as an asexual guy I also think more handsome when flaccid...not that I spend much time contemplating this as you see!

And here, our difference is just personal taste, for which there is supposedly no accounting.

boa

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and unfortunately I have breasts too.

>wheezes to the gym<

ROTFLMMFAO!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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lateralshadow

yeah got the ol' snip myself. I seem not to mind either way. I prefer myself the way I am....and it's hard to think of not being cut so. Of course it would work the other way around too of course. as far as the original post and the study mentioned...I masturbate regularly.

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Silly Green Monkey

Circumcision has been linked to a 5% lower rate of cervical cancer in women, not much I know. There are cells called Langerhans cells in the foreskin of the penis, whose function is to pick up pathogens and dump them directly into the immune system to be dealt with. Unfortunately, the HIV virus is happy in the immune system. One study followed fifty men with infected female partners, and most of the uncircumcised men were infected by the end of it with almost none of the circumcised men.

Circumcision was done at eight days because that was when the levels of Vitamin K were high enough for the infant's blood to clot.

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Circumcision has been linked to a 5% lower rate of cervical cancer in women, not much I know.

...Say what? Are you talking about male or female circumcision? If male...how in hell did they make the correlation between male circumcision and cervical cancer?

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Silly Green Monkey

I thought the thread topic was male circumcision... and it's easy to find the correlation, just ask the cervical cancer sufferers about their sexual partners.

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Huh. I've never heard sexual intercourse with circumcised men was correlated to cancer of the cervix. Doesn't mean it's causal, though. Still, that's strange to me.

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bard of aven

When in doubt, google. It's my new mantra. In this case, google HPV.

Actually, it can be causal. The virus that often leads to cervical cancer (Human Papilloma Virus aka HPV) is, it is implied above, more likely to be carried and spread by the uncut than the cut. It can be asymptomatic in men for very long periods (years), so they do not know they have or are spreading it, but can cause cervical cancer in women. Hence the importance of regular Pap smears for sexually active women: if detected early, curable.

Have I got that right? Not my area of expertise.

boa

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fluffy_hime

They made me go to the gyno for the first time last year to check to see if everything's "normal." Since I'm not "active", I don't see why I should go back for a loooooong time. Isn't that the only reason one goes to the gyno?

and unfortunately I have breasts too.

>wheezes to the gym<

LOL! This made me think of last summer when I worked at Subway. This overweight guy had rode a bike in (just like Jared!) except, unlike Jared, he ordered a footlong pepperoni with extra mayo. :shock: The guy was wheezing so bad and bright red from the bike ride, my manager told me later he was thinking, "Geez, maybe you should lay off the extra mayo...you look like you're going to have a heart attack."

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Silly Green Monkey

Subway? Mmmmmmmm sweet onion chicken teriyaki....••drools••

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Silly Green Monkey

And actually, you're supposed to be checked regularly for abnormalities unrelated to STDs and other sexually-related conditions.

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though that is quite uncommon... i cant remember the exact figures but the majority of cervical cancer is caused by HPV.

The present advice in england is that the only people who do not need a cervical smear done every three years are people who have never been sexually active ever. (and women who are post menopausal)

again the use of condoms would be much more effective in preventing cervical cancer than every guy getting the snip.

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