"I feel inadequate" - He says it would break his heart

[Mum3Free]

After a lot of excruciating soul searching to acknowledge our sexual incompatibility, I have asked my husband (30 years married) how he would feel if we agree our marriage has become platonic with affection, but that our shared sex life is over, because this is no longer something he wants. I have been grieving and coming to terms with this reality even though I have known it deep down for years.

He says the thought of me having a sexual relationship with anyone else "outside our marriage" would break his heart and that he feels inadequate and that he is sad to feel he is just not enough for me. I communicate using Non Violent Communication, and I put a huge amount of energy into being gentle and considerate in the conversations we're having. I have never blamed or shamed him and I accept him as he is and am not looking to replace him. Yet his mindset seems very fixed. Can anyone help me? What might this feel like for him, and how could I help him love himself more rather than beat himself up with his beliefs that he is inadequate? Whilst also acknowledging my own needs - which are for intimacy he seems unable to give me. 

[Philip027]

Did you suggest the open relationship element, or did he come to that conclusion on his own?

 

I don't know if this is something you can fix for him, regardless of how "nice" you try to be about it.  Not only does it seem like a great deal of his sense of inadequacy comes from within, sometimes the reality of a situation (you having relationship needs he cannot meet) just sucks and no amount of sugarcoating is necessarily going to change that.

[Mum3Free]

Thank you @Philip027 I told him that I have been wondering about whether it could work for him to free me from the sexual monogamy expectation that comes with marriage.  Even if I never pursue ENM, I'm asking him whether he could support me with it in principle. I'm hoping this might help me refind and embrace the joy in other aspects of our relationship. He is saying he doesn't want to be married to someone who wishes to have sex with someone else, because that intimacy is a core part of marriage. He says he doesn't mind physical intimacy but just never wants intercourse again. I am willing to explore this compromise but feel unsure because fundamentally he has said he just isn't really bothered about having sex with anyone. A desire for me sexually just isn't there.

He has viewed gay porn in the past and in secret but when I discovered this and asked him about it, he insisted he isn't gay and doesn't want to have sex with anyone. The only person he ever did want to was with me, but that has now faded. He says sex in all relationships ends eventually. (But we are only 54!)

He seems to have an all-or-nothing mindset ie either I accept and love him as he is within this marriage as it is or if not, he would rather end our relationship and both get on with our lives. This seems very drastic to me, given all we've built, shared and been through together. Can the thought of me having sex with someone else - after 30 years of loyal love through some very tricky times - really be such a deal-breaker? 

 

[Philip027]

59 minutes ago, Mum3Free said:

He seems to have an all-or-nothing mindset ie either I accept and love him as he is within this marriage as it is or if not, he would rather end our relationship and both get on with our lives. This seems very drastic to me, given all we've built, shared and been through together. Can the thought of me having sex with someone else - after 30 years of loyal love through some very tricky times - really be such a deal-breaker? 

Yeah, unfortunately, it can be, particularly to someone who's monogamously-minded like he seems to be.

 

I totally understand where he is coming from there; if my partner was not satisfied with what I had to offer, I would rather they go be with someone with whom they were.  To me, that isn't even what I would call "drastic"; I would just say that's simply my nature.  I love my partner and because of that I would want them to have all the things they would want, regardless of whether or not those things come from me.  However, that does not mean I am willingly signing myself up to be a third wheel, a second fiddle, or what have you -- which is what I would ultimately feel like if they were seeking something extramarital.  I don't want to be tied down to anyone that isn't actually satisfied with what they're getting.   That is something that would make me feel inadequate... and as someone diagnosed with depression, believe me, I don't need any more help with feeling that way.

[Gecko1]

2 hours ago, Mum3Free said:

He seems to have an all-or-nothing mindset ie either I accept and love him as he is within this marriage as it is or if not, he would rather end our relationship and both get on with our lives. This seems very drastic to me, given all we've built, shared and been through together. Can the thought of me having sex with someone else - after 30 years of loyal love through some very tricky times - really be such a deal-breaker? 

Hi, I’m on the other side of this situation right now. I reluctantly agreed to an open marriage recently because sex isn’t working for us anymore. I thought that maybe I could handle it, but it really is soul crushing. I was trying to explain to my therapist why I feel bad about it, even though I agreed to it and she accurately identified that it still feels like he is cheating. Even though I said it was ok, I can’t force my feelings to get in line and it still feels wrong and like he is having an affair. I’m finding that I can’t rationalize away my feelings or deeply-rooted beliefs. That may be how your husband feels right now. And if he does, he won’t be able to just change how he feels. 

[Sarah-Sylvia]

@Mum3Free Was the inadequacy said in response to you talking about an open relationship? Even just suggesting an open relationship can hurt a lot, but you also mentioned feeling like it's platonic. So I wonder if it was more about him expressing his feelings of it at the thought of you being in a relationship with someone else (That's to say what you wanted outside the relationship makes him feel that way, rather than inadequacy to work on).

 

Most people are not ok with an open relationship, and I see it as that it's not ok to have one unless he's actually ok with it. But maybe there's a way you could work on non-sexual intimacy together, if he knows sex is off the table it might be easier. I can't know how he feels, it's just a suggestion basing on how I and some others could be. Do feel free to share what you think about these things. (also knowing that he probably feels differently than you think)

[Mum3Free]

2 hours ago, Philip027 said:

Yeah, unfortunately, it can be, particularly to someone who's monogamously-minded like he seems to be.

 

I totally understand where he is coming from there; if my partner was not satisfied with what I had to offer, I would rather they go be with someone with whom they were.  To me, that isn't even what I would call "drastic"; I would just say that's simply my nature.  I love my partner and because of that I would want them to have all the things they would want, regardless of whether or not those things come from me.  However, that does not mean I am willingly signing myself up to be a third wheel, a second fiddle, or what have you -- which is what I would ultimately feel like if they were seeking something extramarital.  I don't want to be tied down to anyone that isn't actually satisfied with what they're getting.   That is something that would make me feel inadequate... and as someone diagnosed with depression, believe me, I don't need any more help with feeling that way.

Yes, I really appreciate what you're saying and I find it hard but helpful to read. Thank you for sharing and also, I'm sorry to hear about your depression. I supported my husband through a few years of acute depression he experienced a while back and it still lurks in a more low level chronic way now ... and is fundamentally linked to his sense of who he is, I guess. He is choosing not to have therapy. 

[Liara]

Does your husband know about asexuality?  Maybe he could try to talk with some asexual people who can help him to a better understanding of himself?

[Philip027]

Yeah, my depression is better managed nowadays than it used to be (and I did receive therapy for it at one point, which helped me get to the state I'm in now) but by now it is something that I suspect will always remain with me in some form or another, and part of that has entailed me not having the greatest of opinions of myself.

 

Anyway, didn't mean to make things about me, but hopefully gave you a little insight into what he could possibly be feeling right now (not that I could say for sure of course; he may not be asexual or even like me at all).  Hope you can navigate your way through this, whether you end up staying together or not.  I can see from your words that you would like to stay together, but there may simply not be a way to do so that won't leave one or both of you hurting.  Be prepared for that possibility.

[Mum3Free]

4 hours ago, Gecko1 said:

Hi, I’m on the other side of this situation right now. I reluctantly agreed to an open marriage recently because sex isn’t working for us anymore. I thought that maybe I could handle it, but it really is soul crushing. I was trying to explain to my therapist why I feel bad about it, even though I agreed to it and she accurately identified that it still feels like he is cheating. Even though I said it was ok, I can’t force my feelings to get in line and it still feels wrong and like he is having an affair. I’m finding that I can’t rationalize away my feelings or deeply-rooted beliefs. That may be how your husband feels right now. And if he does, he won’t be able to just change how he feels. 

I really appreciate reading about how this has felt like for you and am sorry it is proving to be such an awful experience. It's food for thought for me. I'm curious whether, knowing what you now know, you would have made a different choice? And given the open marriage isn't working for you, I hope you are being gentle with yourself as you work out what next for you. Sending love. 

[Gecko1]

59 minutes ago, Mum3Free said:

I'm curious whether, knowing what you now know, you would have made a different choice? And given the open marriage isn't working for you, I hope you are being gentle with yourself as you work out what next for you. Sending love. 

The main reason I chose this is because we have kids. Honestly, if we didn’t have kids then I would have asked for a divorce instead. Because of the kids, I probably would have made the same choice because I want to give this every possible chance so at the very least it buys my kids more time with both of us.

 

I was struggling the most when faced with the thought that I would have to live like this forever. Now that I have given myself permission to have a time limit to try it before asking for a change, I have been coping better and feeling less trapped.

[uhtred]

A couple of thoughts:

 

1) Please never stay in a marriage "for the kids".   I was raised by parents in a loveless marriage and I think that did much more harm to me than divorce would have done.  I was "taught" that "love" was two people who had a purely functional relationship: Father worked to earn money. Mother took care of the kids.  They spent almost no time together, showed no sign of affection to each other.  I would have been far better off if they had divorced and I'd seen what love and affection really looked like, and spent some time with both.

2)  Just to think about:   You have told him you are unhappy as things are, but he doesn't want you to try to change them.    How can he want you to stay unhappy if he loves you? How can he be happy if you are unhappy

 

I've been in a >30 year marriage where I'm sexual, my wife asexual. I think in the long run we both would have been better if we had separated. 

 

Of course all these situations are different and its all to easy to map one onto another

[Olallieberry]

11 hours ago, Mum3Free said:

how could I help him love himself more rather than beat himself up with his beliefs that he is inadequate?

This is kind of erase-y: It isn’t erasing his asexualiy, but it’s erasing his agency in being able to just have a boundary and express it. You’re basically saying he’s not mentally healthy enough to agree that you have the right solution for both of you.

What if he loves himself just fine and is expressing a feeling rather than a belief? This happens a lot: When someone tries to describe or explain a feeling, they make statements which don’t sound like feelings but sound like beliefs instead.

 

What if the statement of inadequacy is his best words for his feelings of regret and disappointment? What if it’s just expressing a wish that you two were more compatible, based on the realization that you aren’t? 

 

What if you both have negative feelings but it’s nobody’s fault and nobody’s pathology?

What if you just feel what you feel and let him feel what he feels, and all of it was valid?

 

Nonviolent communication isn’t about persuading or fixing a person. If you aren’t listening authentically and empathizing with what you’re hearing, you’re missing part of nonviolent communciation.

 

If you’re asking for something he doesn’t want to grant you, for whatever the reason is, then, maybe rather than trying to make him decide to grant it, maybe you need to go in a different direction.

 

At least he acknowledges the platonic nature of your relationship. As such, you can either remain faithful the way he wants, rearrange the legal status so that no expectation of fidelity would be reasonable on his part, or… wait a while longer.

 

That is what it took in my own marriage. We made a lot of progress on acknowledging the reality of the nature of our relationship, and afterwards there was a many months long period where her negative attitude about ethical nonmonogamy… Ripened, let’s say. Into something less negative.

 

It sucks to consider “going slow” after what probably has already been a very long period of feeling stuck and wishing for change. And if someone can’t go slow and has to press the issue more promptly, because they’re just done being stuck and uncertain when and whether change will ever come, that’s OK. Such a person can do what they have to do to unilaterally reset expectations and commitments. In my own case, there was a period when I was completely convinced that it would end in divorce. But just when I thought it was getting daaaamn close to that, my spouse surprised me with a change of heart and a real willingness to figure out how we would pursue what was previously unthinkable.

[Gecko1]

3 hours ago, uhtred said:

Please never stay in a marriage "for the kids".

I have been hearing this a lot lately and my thoughts have changed from thinking I would try to stay a few more years to planning to bring up the topic with him again in a few months. 

[LateToAce]

3 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

This is kind of erase-y: It isn’t erasing his asexualiy, but it’s erasing his agency in being able to just have a boundary and express it. You’re basically saying he’s not mentally healthy enough to agree that you have the right solution for both of you.

Thank you for saying this. Having boundaries that include rejecting ENM is perfectly valid. Of course it has repercussions that can include deep pain experienced by the sexual partner, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong or something that needs to be fixed. I appreciate you speaking up for folks who have that boundary, especially in light of your journey. Thanks! 

[uhtred]

11 hours ago, LateToAce said:

Thank you for saying this. Having boundaries that include rejecting ENM is perfectly valid. Of course it has repercussions that can include deep pain experienced by the sexual partner, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong or something that needs to be fixed. I appreciate you speaking up for folks who have that boundary, especially in light of your journey. Thanks! 

Boundaries are fine, but I also believe its always OK for someone to leave a relationship if they are not happy.

[LateToAce]

29 minutes ago, uhtred said:

Boundaries are fine, but I also believe its always OK for someone to leave a relationship if they are not happy.

Of course. No one is entitled to have their partner/s stay in a relationship when they are unhappy. 

[Olallieberry]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

Boundaries are fine, but I also believe its always OK for someone to leave a relationship if they are not happy.

That’s a manifestation of a boundary - whichever partner is the one to pull the pin.

[uhtred]

3 hours ago, LateToAce said:

Of course. No one is entitled to have their partner/s stay in a relationship when they are unhappy. 

Yes, but it leads to another problem.   
If someone say "if you don't allow ENM,  I'm going to divorce you" feels like a threat.

 

OTOH if their partner says not to ENM, and they say "OK I want a divorce", and they don't back down, maybe their partner would have preferred ENM to divorce.  

(or replace ENM with sex).   Its a tricky problem how to do that without it feeling like unfair pressure / coercion.    Its asymmetric because saying "no" or wanting the status quoue to continue is not "pressure" but wanting something or wanting a change can feel like pressure. 

I mention this because its something I've struggled with.

[Mum3Free]

The system doesn't seem to like it when I try to respond to a number of specific comments so I'd like to acknowledge and thank @uhtred @Olallieberry @LateToAce @Gecko1 @Liara and @Sarah-Sylvia and @Philip027 for all the reflections, challenges, questions for me to consider and diverse perspectives you've offered above. 

 

This question is very illuminating for me: What if the statement of inadequacy is his best words for his feelings of regret and disappointment? What if it’s just expressing a wish that you two were more compatible, based on the realization that you aren’t? 

 

I had not thought of it like this.

 

It has helped me realise that although I'm not trying to fix or persuade him ( I simply invited him to consider ENM as an option, to which he is free to say yes or no)  - I am taking on responsibility for his feelings of inadequacy, regret or disappointment. And they aren't my responsibility. I often remind my grown-up children about owning their emotions and not other people's  - yet I needed this reminder to own my feelings and let him own his. Thank you!

 

I'm curious whether "rearrange the legal status" essentially means divorce, or whether there are subtleties to this that I'm not aware of? Are there other legal options? 

 

And if you're willing to share, I'd be curious how it is turning out for you now with "figuring out what would previously be unthinkable". 

21 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

 

 

 

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, uhtred said:

saying "no" or wanting the status quoue to continue is not "pressure"

Of course that can feel like pressure. If anything, there is asymmetry in favor of the one who wants not-change, because nobody has to do anything different for them to have what they want, while for the one who wants change to get what they want, they have to change and have to see their partner change too.

 

You mentioned fairness, and I 100% agree that behaving with fairness is ideal and behaving unfairly is detestable, but wanting what you want and stating you want it is not inherently unfair, no matter how the other person's feelings react to the conflict and no matter how they behave in reaction to those feelings.

 

Using it as a manipulation tactic IS inherently unfair, and it IS tricky to not employ it as manipulation and it IS tricky to not be perceived as having manipulative intentions, but, the other person's reaction shouldn't define our own conscience about it. If we communicate nonviolently and allow the other person to own their own side of it, it's still possible to maintain boundaries and sleep at night.

[Olallieberry]

2 minutes ago, Mum3Free said:

And if you're willing to share, I'd be curious how it is turning out for you now with "figuring out what would previously be unthinkable"

Very willing

 

This story starts during the "unthinkable" period, so, don't get discouraged.

[Olallieberry]

10 minutes ago, Mum3Free said:

I'm curious whether "rearrange the legal status" essentially means divorce, or whether there are subtleties to this that I'm not aware of? Are there other legal options? 

Yeah, I was talking about divorce. I'm not aware of another legal measure which would enforceably nullify a married person's expectation of a traditional version of their partner's "fidelity." Divorce could happen either before or after an infidelity or a perceived infidelity.

 

A couple can either redefine fidelity and "make it legal" by just agreeing to the new definition within their marriage, or, they can be not-married so that no fidelity is expected.

[Olallieberry]

42 minutes ago, Olallieberry said:

Very willing

 

This story starts during the "unthinkable" period, so, don't get discouraged.

Page 5 is where it starts to turn around.