Wondering how to build bridges

[delightful dawn]

 I feel badly, because I had never realized I was asexual until after getting married to a wonderful guy.  We do have a daughter (who is bisexual) and through the deep and long multiple conversations I had with her, we figured out that i was asexual.  This was after I had to explain to my dear hubby that I just could not do this.  I know he feels rejected,  and says angrily whenever it comes up (rarely anymore he won't talk about it) that I am just not a normal person., and that it is not normal, even though he says that he suports other LGBTQ folks (though he does not like pronoun changes or argues that they are fine (in whatever gender they present).  For me it has been painful to watch him pull away from hugs (I love hugs) and kisses I am okay with non-tongue ones..) or holding hands, which I feel are good ways to connect more than sex ever was, but with him it was all or nothing..  I also wonder if this asexuality has anything to do with not being handled for more than two months of my extremely premature birth.  Not sure how to build a deeper caring bridge to my hubby to regain closeness when he sees things as all or nothing.  How do I introduce him or us to the in-between land of romantic, or closeness - would it be like an AA not wanting to touch a drink for fear of wanting to drink again?  (I am a teetotaler, but do love chocolate and would understand having to cut that off totally!  ha!). I do love him and would like to have him know it, but cannot go through the sex route.  Just not sure how to go about it, he does not want counseling so it has to be on our own.. the counseling we did have was disastrous - he ended up telling the counselor how wonderful everything was and how amazing we are.  Which it is true in so many ways except the closeness.  Thank you ahead of time folks!  I am new here and have read so many thoughtful posts and know that everyone is here to help and find community, which is hard to find!

[Olallieberry]

Welcome to AVEN in general and FSPFA in particular. As an asexual person, you might also get some mileage out of the Asexual Relationships subforum too.

 

Regarding your situation: Well,

 

It could be that it's all or nothing for your husband.

 

But there are a lot of us (sexual spouses of asexual people) who have had the following experience: Non-sexual physical affection becomes something to avoid, for one of two reasons, or both: Either because we're afraid that if we offer it, it will alarm the asexual partner into thinking that we're going to try to make it sexual, and we'll get sexually rejected even though we only wanted non-sexual intimacy at that moment, and that rejection hurts just as much as if we had tried to seek sex. Or non-sexual physical affection becomes something the asexual partner wants to avoid because they believe that every time they seek that, the sexual partner tries to take it beyond affection into sexual activity.

 

And so one or both partners actively avoid something both of them want, and would really love, even if it didn't turn into a sexual thrill for the sexual partner. Now both people are lacking something very desirable in the relationship, and it's because one or both of them can't get sexual activity out of their mind when one of them seeks or offers non-sexual physical affection.

 

A lot of us have figured this out, and subsequently learned that we can talk out loud about this to our partners, and say to each other that we can do non-sexual physical affection with confidence that it doesn't have to trigger those apprehensions about rejection or boundary-crossing. And this conversation can result in the resumption of healthy non-sexual physical affection, which is very beneficial to the relationship and the individuals.

 

It isn't a substitute for sex, but it restores something else which has been missing. And more than just the affection: It also restores the sense of goodwill and good faith. And this goes an awful long way toward having enough equanimity about the absence of sex or one person's need for sex that further conversations along the lines of "well, what the hell do we even do about this?" can become a lot easier.

 

Finding an actual solution is very hard. But  most  some* of us have done it. There are basically four options, and each mis-matched couple figures out for themselves which of the following is going to be their path:

 

1. The asexual person compromises and provides some amount of some form of sex.

2. The sexual person just accepts celibacy.

3. The couple agrees on some form of non-monogamy, extramarital sex, or open relationship.

4. The relationship ceases in its present form (basically, breakup).

 

* Not everyone has solved it. Sometimes a couple remain together even while it remains a severe problem, and enormous amounts of pain remain present for one or both people in the relationship. In fact this tends to be the stage people are at when they come to FSPFA on AVEN.

 

I can't predict how ready your husband is to consider any of the three options he has a say in. Option 1 is your boundary and you have said you won't do it, so that leaves the other three. He may not be ready to just decide what he wants: It can take time to work through considering and trying/testing some of the options.

 

And with that in mind, why is he so against counseling? What would be so bad about that? Is that somehow worse than figuring out one of the options without help?

 

If I had to take a wild guess, it's one of the following things:
* He already 100% knows exactly what he wants and is convinced that he's not going to get it, with or without counseling.
* Or he could be having an active defense mechanism - fear of anticipating facing some of his own personal stuff which he doesn't want to face.
* Or anticipating excessive cost/expense. Although, you have tried it before, so...
* Or a macho attitude that if HE can't figure it out, nobody can.
* Or he is so uncomfortable with vulnerability in front of you that maybe what he really needs is individual counseling.

 

I'd look at it in terms of, how badly does he want a solution? How long does he want the uncertainty and the lack of resolution to drag on? He could read some of the experiences here in FSPFA and find that sexual partners of asexual people can spend years, decades feeling rejected and bereft and stuck and it doesn't get better by just sitting around hoping it will fix itself on its own - or hoping the other person will fix it.

Anyway, it could take time, with or without a counselor. Speaking for myself, it took my asexual wife and I quite a while before we found what's working for us. We've been together 20 years and she identified as asexual back in 2022.

 

Early on, we talked at kind of an exploratory/hypothetical level about what it would be like to split up. We decided we could be amicable about it, and could co-parent amicably, and it wouldn't kill anyone if it came to that, but neither of us ever remotely wanted that. So we never took it seriously as an option to actually consider, but talking out loud about "what would that even be like" was an important step - not something to be avoided. The stakes are pretty high. Might as well just be realistic about it.

We discussed and tried many things within option 1, and it took about a year to discover that none of what she was willing to do, sexually, would work for me. (Here's a link to why, if you care.) I expressed early on that celibacy, option 2, also was not going to be an option for me.

It took another several months before she became willing to talk about option 3, and during that time I came close to pulling the trigger on option 4. (I did not coerce or threaten her into agreeing to option 3, she came to it on her own. Again, if you care, that story is linked here.)

 

So, again - just expect that it could take time.

 

And finally - it's probably important for both of you to recognize that rejection is a separate issue from the absence of sex. I'm not saying "don't reject him sexually," I just think that it's important to recognize that there are multiple dimensions to what a sexual partner experiences when their asexual partner rejects sex. Why is it important to recognize that? Because the different dimensions can be addressed with different approaches - but only if there is awareness.

For a sexual partner, lack of sex is uncomfortable and painful and a real drag. And separately from the sex, so is the lack of intimacy in general, and for many sexual people, sex is the primary way intimacy is experienced with their partner. But the pain of seeking it and being told "no" is, for most of us, quite a lot more painful than just not getting to have sex or regular doses of intimacy and connection with their partner. The rejection is painful in a way which isn't just about sex. It's about feeling loved.

 

So again, I'm not saying don't reject him sexually. Of course you can have that boundary. And I'm not saying you must not love him if you aren't giving him sex. The reason I'm talking about this is because, if it's going to work between you two, you two have to figure out how to make the pain stop and how to make the love felt. Maybe you're already halfway there, because, since you have expressed the boundary of "no sex," then he knows he shouldn't keep seeking it and renewing the pain of rejection each time. If he puts you in a position to have to tell him "No," well, he did it to himself. The point is, it's still going to hurt but he shouldn't be re-opening that wound repeatedly, and this might be a perspective you weren't aware of or haven't considered. Whatever it is that has been upsetting him, eating him alive, and triggering his big feelings, it's not entirely about just whether he's getting sex or not. There's more to it. It's just something for you to know - there's nothing else you can do about it besides what you already have (you expressed that clear boundary so he should know not to try to transgress it and get rejected as a result), but, perspective is important.

 

 

1 hour ago, delightful dawn said:

Not sure how to build a deeper caring bridge to my hubby to regain closeness when he sees things as all or nothing.  How do I introduce him or us to the in-between land of romantic, or closeness - would it be like an AA not wanting to touch a drink

We can't know what his specific position and attitude are. But I hope that the above gave you some ideas about ways to make connection while avoiding some of the complications and triggers which have been multiplying the problem beyond it just being about sex.

 

He sounds like he'll be hard to reach. So ask yourself thoughtfully: If he were to not lift a finger and to hold on to rigid expectations which bar exploration and progress, are you, yourself,  willing to "make it work" in spite of his lack of engagement and his inflexibility?

 

Anyway: How do you do it? I think you just have to try. I am blessed with a marriage in which both of us have dared to be radically vulnerable,  and shown each other that that works. We trust each other to witness vulnerability. And that makes us both willing to dare to say what needs to be said, to show each other what our needs are and ask for help getting them met.

 

I really hope that your marriage can grow in that direction too. Because if nobody dares to be vulnerable enough to just expose one's own needs and one's own drive to make progress, then everyone is just stuck, and stuck is no good. Stuck isn't stuck, what stuck really is is stuck while it silently gets worse and worse and worse.

 

Unless it isn't. There is always option 4, and sometimes this is how people react to being stuck.

You can't make him not be stuck. But I guess you have to try, and the way is by demonstrating that you aren't willing to be stuck, yourself.

 

[Olallieberry]

 

2 hours ago, delightful dawn said:

I do love him and would like to have him know it, but cannot go through the sex route.  Just not sure how to go about it

Maybe ask. And also maybe tell him what you're already doing which you feel already shows it.

Have you ever heard of "love languages?" He must have one besides just sex.

 

So maybe if you went to him with the list of love languages and asked, "If not sex, what else could I do for you which shows my love?" he might be able to respond productively - and appreciate the conversation and the effort.

 

[delightful dawn]

Thank you so much for your input.  I can tell (I read all the other threads mentioned too) you have been thinking about this deeply for yourself too.  I think the idea to make sure that love is expressed for now will be the best way to figure out next steps.  I do know about the love languages and did a long time go over them with him.  He does not like to be put into a "box", and I think that is what he feels like that counseling would do too.  Very determined that he has to figure out and do things (everything) on his own.  Not sure how to help him along without making him feel like I am disrespecting his 'methods' of handling things.  Mostly I see him struggle, and perhaps this struggle is what he would like to blame things on, or use as an excuse for checking out or not showing up fully...  I do not know.  I just need to figure out a way to reach him and make our interactions safe enough that he can be a team on this, rather than a martyr.  Martyrdom does nobody any good, even if it is for inspirational purposes!