Okay, I am high libido and my partner is ace. How do I deal with it?

[Phred]

Ok, the subject line is kinda self explanatory, but I would like to hear from people in my situation. How do you as high libido sexual people deal with a partner with asexuality? 

 

* Edited from hyper sexual for correct terminology 

Edited March 2, 2025 by Phred
Corrected terminology

[Ceebs]

'Hyper' as in actually hypersexual, which is generally considered to be a condition involving unwanted excessive sexual desire/arousal, where the person feels distressed about it (usually as a symptom of a psychological or medical condition), or 'hyper' as in simply high libido, which is perfectly normal and healthy for many people? If you mean the latter and you're in a relationship with someone who has little to no interest, your own desire might feel excessive (or even shameful; been there myself), but on the off chance you're viewing it that way and feel that there's something problematic about your wants and needs... just to be clear, there isn't.

 

Of course, that's not to say that the mismatch isn't a very real and distressing problem, no matter how you think of your own sexuality.

 

Generally there are four options we talk about on AVEN: celibacy, compromise (some sexual activity if the asexual partner is open to and comfortable with it, but probably not as much as the sexual person would like and with the knowledge that the desire isn't truly reciprocated even if their partner is ok with having sex), finding sexual connections outside the primary relationship (open relationship/ethical non-monogamy), or splitting up. Not sure whether you and your wife have a sexless marriage or if you're having some amount of sex, but I'm assuming one of the first two options is your current situation.

 

My own story probably isn't super helpful, really. It's in the past now. The gist of it is that my ex-husband and I got together when we were young-ish (first official relationship for both of us) and both questioning our sexuality. Turns out he's asexual; I was dealing with a lot of shame surrounding sexuality, plus some health issues, and because of that I wasn't sure how I felt about sex and what I wanted or needed, and I think a partner who was unlikely to pressure me seemed 'safe'. That wasn't the only issue though, and I grew and circumstances changed, and really it boiled down to... we made great friends, but it simply wasn't the right match for a romantic/sexual relationship. We were living as platonic companions. We acknowledged the relationship was over about seven years ago and the divorce was finalised in 2021. Still good friends even now, though. For the past almost-five years I've been in a relationship with someone I met here on AVEN, who coincidentally split from his quite-likely-asexual ex-wife around the same time (other issues there too, wasn't just a sexual incompatibility). We've been engaged since last spring and... well, yeah, that's how we dealt with it. The splitting up option.

 

There are certainly sexual people here who are still with their ace partners, though. A few have gone the open relationship/ethical non-monogamy route and the rest are in the compromise or celibacy categories. Obviously they can do a better job than I can of explaining how that works for them. My ex and I were together for a good six or so years after we stopped having sex, and stopping was honestly a relief to both of us in that case; him because he wasn't truly into sex in the same way I was, me because I no longer viewed him sexually or romantically by that point and it felt very weird and uncomfortable attempting to interact in such ways. I squashed my sexuality down for quite a while and there was enough other stuff going on in life that was causing me more stress than my relationship was, so it seemed like it didn't even matter for a while. Until it did, which hit me like a ton of bricks when someone else expressed interest in me and I lost my shit internally and realised how much I really wanted and needed that type of connection. 
 

Anyway. As I said in your other thread, glad you've found AVEN.  I hope it's the beginning of new ways of understanding each other for both you and your wife. Mixed relationships are tough no matter which side of the equation you're on.

[Guest]

@Phred

 

It really depends on how it's affecting you both and what the sexual part feels like as a result of how you feel about sex.  If it brings up negative feelings and resentment for you both and there doesn't seem to be a compromise then you'll know that something needs to change in that way.  Exploring different types of relationships with your partner could open things up and prevent the inevitable separation due to sexual incompatibility but sometimes ending it is the best option.  There's also the sex/sensual/romance aspect of it that could be a good discussion point depending on where you two are and what you need from each other.  I am very sensual and romantic but only have sex to please the other person because it's expected which then makes me feel empty.  This is speaking in heterosexual terms.  I'm more attracted to women but have always been with men because it wasn't accepted where and when I grew up.  I'm unsure how I will feel sexually if I meet a woman because of the lack of contact and where it'll feel empty as it does with men.  As a single person just now, the prospect of being sexual as opposed to romantic and sensual makes me feel disgusted.  Whether that's how I will feel in a relationship remains to be seen but I'm sharing this to illustrate how complex the whole thing is for me.  I love kissing, hugging, massaging and touching but certain sexual acts make me hugely uncomfortable.  Maybe you could both write down what you love and what is a definite no, that way you know whether you can be together in that way or not?  Best of luck. 🙂

[Liara]

Have you seen that? https://www.asexuality.org/en/forum/30-for-sexual-partners-friends-and-allies/

[ei-hvað]

The thread has been moved to the "For Sexual Partners, Friends and Allies" forum.

 

Ei-hvað,

-Asexual Relationships and Open Mic moderator.

[Phred]

9 hours ago, daveb said:

 @Phred

 

8 hours ago, Mrs Telecaster-to-be said:

'Hyper' as in actually hypersexual, which is generally considered to be a condition involving unwanted excessive sexual desire/arousal, where the person feels distressed about it (usually as a symptom of a psychological or medical condition), or 'hyper' as in simply high libido, which is perfectly normal and healthy for many people? If you mean the latter and you're in a relationship with someone who has little to no interest, your own desire might feel excessive (or even shameful; been there myself), but on the off chance you're viewing it that way and feel that there's something problematic about your wants and needs... just to be clear, there isn't

 

Sorry for the 2 quotes. I couldn't figure out how to remove the one from last night. 

 

@Mrs Telecaster-to-be, hyper is what we have been calling my situation, but you are probably correct and it should be termed high libido. We have been doing the whole celibacy thing and it is stressful for me. But I can't in good conscience go the route of compromise. It causes her stress. I don't want to hurt her in any way, shape, or form. She is the love of my life. We have discussed an open relationship and we will discuss it again in our next couples counseling session. It's scary for both of us, but so is the last option. We have been together for over 25 years now. Neither of us want this to be the reason we split up. Hence the counseling. 

 

I do have a copy of "the ethical slut" and I am working my way through it. I feel like I should have as much information as possible before (if) we try that route. But for now we will stick with celibacy. It is the least amount of harm for us. 

 

My wife and I have a very romantic relationship. It's just me trying to separate the sexual side from the romance side that causes my anxiety. For me the two seem to be entwined. I won't go too deep into this right now, that is for my therapist, but I am trying to find the line between romance and sexual attraction. I am still sexually attracted to my wife and probably always will be, but I can't do anything about it without causing her harm. I can however do the romance side. As jakey as it may be, we have always loved the tourist traps. A quick road trip to the largest ball of twine or something similar. That is my lifeline right now. Something to help keep us together. 

 

Thank you for your story. You may not think that it is helpful since it is in the past, but it is. It gives me something to look forward to if this all goes pear shaped. It may also be something that others will see and learn from. 

8 hours ago, Let me out of this box said:

@Phred

 

It really depends on how it's affecting you both and what the sexual part feels like as a result of how you feel about sex.  If it brings up negative feelings and resentment for you both and there doesn't seem to be a compromise then you'll know that something needs to change in that way.  Exploring different types of relationships with your partner could open things up and prevent the inevitable separation due to sexual incompatibility but sometimes ending it is the best option.  There's also the sex/sensual/romance aspect of it that could be a good discussion point depending on where you two are and what you need from each other.  I am very sensual and romantic but only have sex to please the other person because it's expected which then makes me feel empty.  This is speaking in heterosexual terms.  I'm more attracted to women but have always been with men because it wasn't accepted where and when I grew up.  I'm unsure how I will feel sexually if I meet a woman because of the lack of contact and where it'll feel empty as it does with men.  As a single person just now, the prospect of being sexual as opposed to romantic and sensual makes me feel disgusted.  Whether that's how I will feel in a relationship remains to be seen but I'm sharing this to illustrate how complex the whole thing is for me.  I love kissing, hugging, massaging and touching but certain sexual acts make me hugely uncomfortable.  Maybe you could both write down what you love and what is a definite no, that way you know whether you can be together in that way or not?  Best of luck. 🙂

@Let me out of this box Yes, the sexual side does bring up negative things now. It wasn't always that way. Just since she came out as ace. I realize that I am causing harm if we have sex. (Only once since she came out and it was at her instigation. I saw the harm it caused and never again.) I sincerely hope that separation is not inevitable. We love each other too much for me to contemplate that. I can see your perspective mirrored in my wife. The emptiness. From my perspective that is me causing her harm. I also saw the anger that it brought up. A kind of frustration about my needs and desires. We are on different sides right now. She was willing to forgo her happiness for mine, but I can't accept that. I have hope that we can find a way to make us both happy together. 

 

We do enjoy a good cuddle. Although I do tend to fall asleep as soon as I am in my happy place. No matter what our relationship ends up looking like, we will always have that. 

 

As for the part about being with someone because it is what was expected of you, I am on the same journey. We are obviously of the same generation, or close enough to not matter. My wife is the one who helped me figure that out. That I may be open to more than what is expected of me. But that is probably a whole different forum. 

 

@Liara, thank you. I will check it out.

 

@ei-hvað, is there any way to edit the title to make it read high libido instead of hyper?

[Phred]

Found it. I have now corrected the subject.

[Olallieberry]

21 hours ago, Phred said:

a partner with asexuality

“With asexuality” sounds like you’re describing a medical or psychological condition.

 

Anyway, speaking for myself, the solution started with both of us taking each other seriously. And taking our own needs seriously too. Where we wound up was extramarital sex for me, no sex for her. This won’t work for everyone and I’m not suggesting it’ll work for you.

 

The specifics of that solution are much less important than the fact that we treat each other like fully human grownups and we act like it too. We don’t take each other’s problems as an attack or blame. We don’t get mad at each other for having the needs we have. We get radically vulnerable and transparent, and trust each other to witness that without reacting defensively.

 

That’s what makes it work. Accepting each other’s boundaries and needs, and agreeing to allow the needs to be met in some way, even if not meeting all of them mutually.

[Phred]

On 3/2/2025 at 7:38 PM, Olallieberry said:

“With asexuality” sounds like you’re describing a medical or psychological condition.

 

Anyway, speaking for myself, the solution started with both of us taking each other seriously. And taking our own needs seriously too. Where we wound up was extramarital sex for me, no sex for her. This won’t work for everyone and I’m not suggesting it’ll work for you.

 

The specifics of that solution are much less important than the fact that we treat each other like fully human grownups and we act like it too. We don’t take each other’s problems as an attack or blame. We don’t get mad at each other for having the needs we have. We get radically vulnerable and transparent, and trust each other to witness that without reacting defensively.

 

That’s what makes it work. Accepting each other’s boundaries and needs, and agreeing to allow the needs to be met in some way, even if not meeting all of them mutually.

@Olallieberry, yes I have a way with poor choices of phrase. I hope that it comes across in the way it is in my head, but often times it doesn't. 

 

We have discussed the same solution that works for you and that is where we are starting from. This was independent from your quoted post, but in line with other advice that I have seen here. 

 

Yes, the specifics are just that. Specific to each situation. Yours is not mine. But I do gain insight on how to navigate it through your experience. We (my most beloved and I) have been tackling this through much counseling. Couples and individual. For us that is step one. I don't know if you went through that as well, but bully for you on finding the path. I hope to be there too.

 

After 20+ years together it is like we are dating again. Finding out what our soft spots are and how we can navigate around them.(I.e. she doesn't like horror movies, so maybe I shouldn't take her to a horror movie. Maybe a bad analogy, but I hope that you understand where I am coming from.)

 

I want to make sure that she knows that I love her even though I cannot make love to her because it causes her pain. I seem to remember that from the early dating days, but I have to remember what I did ages ago when we were just starting. That frisson. The whole I love her, but I don't want to... Maybe... This should not just be a physical thing. That type of angst. (I really hope that you can follow my thoughts there.) That's what brings me back to the whole first date thing. It's like we are starting fresh. That should be a grand adventure for us, but it is scary for me. I'm sure that it is scary for her as well. My first thought is to latch on to her for comfort, but our comfort is not the same any longer. Her's is different than mine. My only saving grace is that I can still cuddle with her. I never want to lose that. 

 

I have let Aven slip to the side lately because I found it to be a rabbit hole. I find myself sucked into many threads to the point of (almost) addiction. Therefore I have put a limit on my interaction with it. There are so many people in similar situations as mine that I can spend weeks on here. All have different solutions for their personal situations. I will find my own with the help that I have found here, but I have to limit my interaction with the community. Just for my own mental health. Please understand if I don't respond to anything for several weeks. 

[Sally]

@Phred, I'm asexual but I had a marriage with a sexual and then a long partnership with another sexual, so I have had experience and some understanding of how sexuals can feel about being/having to be careful when they learn that their partner is asexual.  What I'm wondering is -- do you think that your estimation of how much harm you are causing your wife is accurate?  Does she feel like she was being caused harm?  Sometimes guilt can just accentuate problems in a sexually-mismatched relationship.

 

Another note:  You needn't feel responsible for responding to AVEN members whenever they make comments.  Joining AVEN is a choice, and so is conversing with everyone once you have posted.  

[Phred]

@Sally, my wife came out as ace last year. It was a bit of a shock for me, but I tried to roll with it. We hit a rough patch this year and she decided that I needed sex. (I probably do, but I make due as best as I can.) One night we had sex. I saw how much it hurt her. Not physically, but mentally. I can't put her through that again. Any harm to my beloved is unacceptable. She did what she felt was right, but it cost her. I can't do that again. While it may not have been physical pain, it still hurt her. I can't do that to her. While it might be in my mind I can't put her in that position again. 

 

I really don't know how much of it is in my head, but I don't want to cause her any more harm. This is my boo. My ride or die. We've been together for a quarter century. I want to make her happy. I know that I can't do that sexually, but I can romantically. (Ace romantic.) I'm just trying to find my role now. It's kind of like dating again. We are feeling each other out again. 

 

I do think that she felt harmed from our last session. That is why I feel like it can't happen again. 

[blaigorn]

hey @Phred I came upon a similar realization. For the longest of times we thought we had a libido mismatch, and I battled a lot to try to "fix" that between us. Until my wife described plainly to me and our couples therapists what it felt for her to have sex. Not physically. The mental struggle: sometimes days of anxiety and getting herself mentally ready. How damaging and hurting it was. Plus she never felt like she wanted or needed it. 

 

Accepting her asexuality as a part of her identity, helped me immensely. Suddenly I wasn't at fault. The lack of sexual intimacy wasn't because of what I was doing wrong to get her in the right mood. Nor it was because of her unwillingness to have sex. I accept that the best thing for her is for us to not have sex. I accept that any compromise that would lead to sex of any forms between us would still be hurting to her, and not fulfilling to me. I accept that I can't change her, nor I want to. I accept her as she is. 

 

I also accepted one thing that I always felt shameful. That I have a sexual intimacy need, that goes beyond the physical act of it. It's a need not a want. Sure, I won't die from it. Like you don't die from sleep deprivation or not eating. But it still is something I perceive fundamental to experience life in full. I want her to accept this as part of me, same as I've accepted her. She says she does, but I don't think she does understand fully. She needs time, and we need to improve our relationship and communication.

[Olallieberry]

On 3/30/2025 at 7:09 PM, Phred said:

 

I really don't know how much of it is in my head, but I don't want to cause her any more

 

I do think that she felt harmed from our last session. That is why I feel like it can't happen again. 

Two things here -

 

One, do you want to find out whether it’s in your head or not? Would you ever want to just ask her if she felt harmed?

 

The second thing is, maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe even if it wasn’t harmful or painful to her, she still wasn’t into doing it with you, and maybe that’s an issue all by itself.

 

Even if she were 100% willing and it didn’t hurt and she wasn’t upset about doing it, maybe it’s still too… un-thrilling, or not-mutual, or unsexy, for you to want to do it any more. 

[lovetolove]

8 hours ago, blaigorn said:

hey @Phred 

 

I also accepted one thing that I always felt shameful. That I have a sexual intimacy need, that goes beyond the physical act of it. It's a need not a want. Sure, I won't die from it. Like you don't die from sleep deprivation or not eating. But it still is something I perceive fundamental to experience life in full. I want her to accept this as part of me, same as I've accepted her. She says she does, but I don't think she does understand fully. She needs time, and we need to improve our relationship and communication.

Do you think it's really  possible for her to understand something that she has never experienced?  Maybe some level of empathy and acceptance is the most she can give.  Working to improve your mutual communication is a positive step forward which can only benefit your relationship.  

 

Like you, I believed that I need, as opposed to just want, sexual intimacy.  But, after the sex was taken out of our relationship equation, I've started thinking that maybe I only believed that because it's deeply ingrained in me that a sexual relationship is the only real kind of relationship and that without sexual intimacy, it's more like a friendship. 

 

Could you - or would you be willing to - change your mindset about whether you do actually need it, as opposed to want it, and if so, would that help you in your journey of accepting your relationship as it actually is, not what you'd both spent years thinking it was? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, lovetolove said:

it's deeply ingrained in me that a sexual relationship is the only real kind of relationship and that without sexual intimacy, it's more like a friendship.

After all these years, maybe it's like family.

 

That's how I feel about my marriage. She's my loved one but not my lover.

 

There's more to it than just the years, and there's more to it than just friendship. It's different from anything else I would have with any other family relationship, and it's different from anything else I would ever have with any friendship. But it's not, and can't be, sexually intimate.

 

2 hours ago, lovetolove said:

Maybe some level of empathy and acceptance is the most she can give.

This would be a realistic attitude to take.

 

In my case, there is enough empathy and acceptance. If there weren't a level of empathy and acceptance which motivated willingness to adapt to my needs as I have adapted to hers, it couldn't work.

[blaigorn]

On 4/1/2025 at 11:44 PM, lovetolove said:

Do you think it's really  possible for her to understand something that she has never experienced?  Maybe some level of empathy and acceptance is the most she can give. 

Even if she doesn't understand it, I believe she could grow into having enough empathy to accept it, and that's more than enough for me. I think so because I've also grown to accept her asexuality.

 

On 4/1/2025 at 11:44 PM, lovetolove said:

Like you, I believed that I need, as opposed to just want, sexual intimacy.  But, after the sex was taken out of our relationship equation, I've started thinking that maybe I only believed that because it's deeply ingrained in me that a sexual relationship is the only real kind of relationship and that without sexual intimacy, it's more like a friendship. 

I've gone through several stages, all after "removing sex out of the equation":

First was the "I'll stop initiating, and wait until you need it or notice it has been too long". Obviously that didn't work, as she didn't need it or even notice a difference (or if she did, it was in her favor). And it's just horrible communication. Fortunately that was a long time ago.

Second was the "We leave sex out of the equation, but work on quality time together, and our intimacy (and sex will eventually come as a consequence of a strong relationship)". That was what most advice we got from books and even our therapists gave us. It still didn't work for us, as physical intimacy was a still a struggle, specially after weeks and months of no sex, and always waiting for a change. We had quality time, we had no string attached physical intimacy (backrubs, massages, hand holding, kissing, passionate kissing, spooning).

Third happened after accepting her asexuality and realizing a compromise won't even work. "I accept that we won't ever have sex again, as it's hurtful for her and unfulfilling for me". In this point I went through the worst period personally, with a worse depression than I ever had. It seemed like there was no way out other than divorce or opening up, almost as an ultimatum. During this time I also contemplated the voluntary celibacy option more seriously. Could I do it to "save" our marriage and relationship together? Bottle up all my needs and try my best to not resent it? My therapist suggested it could be a good option, sacrificing my needs/wants as a form of purpose could bring happiness and contentment on its own. This was about the time I started posting here.

Fourth happened after learning a lot of different perspectives, including from here, Reddit and the Allo and Ace Podcast. First, as you said, I started enjoying the physical intimacy without any sexual expectation. That didn't happen before because I always thought eventually it would lead to sex. Now that I don't think that, I feel like I do enjoy it. It's still not sexual intimacy, and I still feel something is missing, but I feel we can be together that way without any negative associations. Secondly I've realized I still want us to be friends, to share a life together and to be romantically attached, if possible, even if there's no possibility of sexual intimacy between us. Thirdly I've started sharing more and communicate more with my wife, including talking about what I learned about me, about others in similar situations and what I feel. And fourth, I've also honored that I have a need for sexual intimacy, and that's important to me, so we should together find a solution for it.

 

Wrote a lot to answer that I've gone through a lot of stages and thinking. You seem to have landed in a better place than the first stages of my journey, and I'm happy for you. But such as I've molded and changed my way of thinking, the same could still happen to me in the future, or to you. Yes, I think our relationship is more than just friends. We share a life together. We have physical and romantic intimacy, that friends do not have. Still, there's something missing, and after more than ten years together, it's starving. How much more will it feel 10 years from now?

[Olallieberry]

1 hour ago, blaigorn said:

My therapist suggested it could be a good option, sacrificing my needs/wants as a form of purpose could bring happiness and contentment on its own

I’m really surprised to hear that. It’s very gaslighty and not what I would expect from a licensed professional.

[blaigorn]

2 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

I’m really surprised to hear that. It’s very gaslighty and not what I would expect from a licensed professional.

By suggested I actually meant "validated" it as an option. Honestly, I think I was mostly acting out of a place of anger and resentment, kind of hoping she would say I shouldn't think about that and put my happiness first. Instead she validated and offered it as a legitimate alternative. I pondered about it, it's similar to what I read from Man's Search for Meaning (from V. Frankl), which lays out logotherapy (it's a very interesting book, you can read about Logotherapy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy ).

However what came from this was a sense of more anger towards this suggestion. Feeling like I didn't matter again. It had an effect on me. The effect that my feelings do matter.

Not sure if this was her intention all along. Or just part of the process. I do think it could be a valid alternative, finding happiness in providing happiness. She was not trying to deny my happiness, just reframing it potentially. But it ended up reinforcing my own identity and needs in the relationship.

[Windmills of My Mind]

2 hours ago, blaigorn said:

However what came from this was a sense of more anger towards this suggestion. Feeling like I didn't matter again. It had an effect on me. The effect that my feelings do matter.

Yeah, you can take that to the bank. Your feelings matter. A whole lot. Good to not ignore them. Sacrificing your needs and wants for someone else is not to be taken lightly. Ultimately it is anyone's own choice, but to suggest you do so if the idea does not stem from your own mind is questionable. Your feelings matter. More than just a bit.

[blaigorn]

1 hour ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

Ultimately it is anyone's own choice, but to suggest you do so if the idea does not stem from your own mind is questionable

To clarify here, my therapist validated that as an option when I told her I was considering doing that, so she did not suggest it in the first place. I said something like: "I'm starting to think that maybe I can sacrifice my own happiness for the sake of my wife and child happiness, and the integrity of our relationship". She replied that it was a valid option, as I could find purpose on doing that, a sacrifice for a greater good. She did not suggest I do that, she just said the option was valid. I don't know her reasoning for doing that, but I think it was either my starting to accept, own, and ultimately become content with this option, if I so chose this option. Or, what ended up happening, gaining through anger and revolt a better sense of the importance of my needs and happiness, which led to action. Honestly I don't know, I've gained a lot of appreciation and respect for a therapist job, and I've honestly lucked up with mine, considering we tried several for couples therapy.

[lovetolove]

20 minutes ago, blaigorn said:

To clarify here, my therapist validated that as an option when I told her I was considering doing that, so she did not suggest it in the first place. I said something like: "I'm starting to think that maybe I can sacrifice my own happiness for the sake of my wife and child happiness, and the integrity of our relationship". She replied that it was a valid option, as I could find purpose on doing that, a sacrifice for a greater good. She did not suggest I do that, she just said the option was valid. I don't know her reasoning for doing that, but I think it was either my starting to accept, own, and ultimately become content with this option, if I so chose this option. Or, what ended up happening, gaining through anger and revolt a better sense of the importance of my needs and happiness, which led to action. Honestly I don't know, I've gained a lot of appreciation and respect for a therapist job, and I've honestly lucked up with mine, considering we tried several for couples therapy.

I can see that, in some circumstances, sacrificing or denying one's needs and desires in order to promote the happiness of another, or others, could actually give a sense of "purpose" to the sacrificer.  Like, if I'd done somebody a deep wrong or committed some kind of offence for which I was truly remorseful, then I might want to atone for my wrongdoing by putting their needs before mine.

 

But in a situation where nobody is at fault, nobody has purposely done wrong to the other person....as you've found, self-sacrifice won't help you.   I had the same thoughts at one time, but I know myself and I knew I wouldn't last five minutes trying to deny my reality for the sake of my marriage. 

 

 

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, lovetolove said:

I knew I wouldn't last five minutes trying to deny my reality for the sake of my marriage.

We have a member who likes to say (I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the pithy wording exactly):

 

"Don't save the relationship at the expense of the people" or something like that.

[Phred]

On 4/1/2025 at 6:30 AM, blaigorn said:

hey @Phred I came upon a similar realization. For the longest of times we thought we had a libido mismatch, and I battled a lot to try to "fix" that between us. Until my wife described plainly to me and our couples therapists what it felt for her to have sex. Not physically. The mental struggle: sometimes days of anxiety and getting herself mentally ready. How damaging and hurting it was. Plus she never felt like she wanted or needed it. 

 

Accepting her asexuality as a part of her identity, helped me immensely. Suddenly I wasn't at fault. The lack of sexual intimacy wasn't because of what I was doing wrong to get her in the right mood. Nor it was because of her unwillingness to have sex. I accept that the best thing for her is for us to not have sex. I accept that any compromise that would lead to sex of any forms between us would still be hurting to her, and not fulfilling to me. I accept that I can't change her, nor I want to. I accept her as she is. 

 

I also accepted one thing that I always felt shameful. That I have a sexual intimacy need, that goes beyond the physical act of it. It's a need not a want. Sure, I won't die from it. Like you don't die from sleep deprivation or not eating. But it still is something I perceive fundamental to experience life in full. I want her to accept this as part of me, same as I've accepted her. She says she does, but I don't think she does understand fully. She needs time, and we need to improve our relationship and communication.

@blaigorn, I never got to hear about it from her side. Somehow it never came up in our therapy. That feeling about how she experienced it. Since you have mentioned it I have tried to put myself in her place. I substituted things that I do not enjoy and it has opened my eyes. 

On 4/1/2025 at 2:22 PM, Olallieberry said:

Two things here -

 

One, do you want to find out whether it’s in your head or not? Would you ever want to just ask her if she felt harmed?

 

The second thing is, maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe even if it wasn’t harmful or painful to her, she still wasn’t into doing it with you, and maybe that’s an issue all by itself.

 

Even if she were 100% willing and it didn’t hurt and she wasn’t upset about doing it, maybe it’s still too… un-thrilling, or not-mutual, or unsexy, for you to want to do it any more. 

@OlallieberryI know that some of it is in my head. I get into my own head way to often. I tend to overthink stuff. I am coming to terms with all of this. I just have to get a feel for what is me and what is us. What I am overthinking and what is reality. We are coming back to our dating days again. Doing the little stuff that made us happy. We are also moving away from being joined at the hip. Doing more stuff independently from each other. 

 

I don't have to ask if it harms her. I can see that it does. After 25+ years together we don't really need words anymore. I know when she is upset or when she has something that she needs to express. Just the other night I knew that she just needed to be held. She had a bad day and all I could think of to help her was to hold her. Sex would not have even entered my mind at that time prior to her coming out. She was hurting and needed a cuddle. As someone mentioned above, empathy. The longer we are together the more empathy we have with each other. I'm learning to remember that. 

[Olallieberry]

3 hours ago, Phred said:

After 25+ years together we don't really need words anymore

I understand what you're saying, but I'm skeptical. I mean, I believe you, but this can't paper over everything. Some things have to be talked about in real words. I guess it depends how badly you want to defend your needs or how willing you are to instead just unilaterally sacrifice them.

 

3 hours ago, Phred said:

The longer we are together the more empathy we have with each other.

Again, I know what you mean and I believe you. It isn't a magical mind-reading power, though. The unspoken sense of empathy doesn't and can't take the place of real words. The trick is to be empathetic with each other while listening to each other's words.

 

I know you're doing that for her. But you seem to be absolving her of any hope that she might do the same.

 

Is there anything you want to change? Anything more you need out of this situation, given that one thing you need isn't going to be had? Anything to ask for? Anything to seek witness to? Anything to show and have seen and have heard? Anything to figure out? Anything to make progress on?

 

Are you OK with nothing ever changing?

 

I don't know, I'm asking. 

 

Speaking for myself, on the subject of your original post, the way I deal with this is communicating and figuring out what to ask for. Because, I was not able to continue the way it was. And I knew that. Maybe your situation is different and if nothing changes you'll be fine, but for me, seeking change and seeing it manifest is critical. And the same is true of my wife - she's empathetic enough to get it on her own, it really tears her up to know that I'm bereft and unhappy. She wants change as much as I do, because she knows what the expectation of celibacy does to me.

 

So, I get what you mean: I don't often express my heartache to her, because she knows, she gets it, she can sense it. But I have, when I really needed to and really needed her to be a supportive partner and witness my pain. I trust her to let me cry it out while she witnesses. I needed it because it helped. It isn't about persuading her to change, it isn't about making it her fault, it isn't about reminding her how hard I have it, it just is about bonding together in support of our mutual needs.

 

And she has done the same with me. I thought she was not into it and still took her word for it that she was willing to try some kind of compromise sex together. What wound up happening was, I didn't ultimately say "no" to sex between us because it made her suffer, though I would have if I thought it did. Instead I said "no" to sex between us because we tried it and what worked for her, in terms of willingness and comfort, didn't work for me, in terms of providing what I want and need out of sex. We had to talk about all of this - it wasn't mind melding.

 

All I'm saying is empathy isn't a substitute for words. Maybe it's true that your situation doesn't require words because it's fine the way it is and no mutual change calling for an effort of partnership is needed here. In which case, I believe in that and respect it and maybe even envy it. It just isn't where I have been, in my own decades of this mis-matched marriage experience.

 

Words work. There have been many things I thought I knew about her and her experience and her attitudes and her boundaries, which I was wrong about.

 

Let me put it this way:

You're clearly interested in an extramarital solution.
So was I. But it is a last resort and I wanted to leave no stone un-turned before asking my wife to consider that. Like - I didn't want to ask her for that and have her come back with "but we haven't tried enough, the two of us."

 

Maybe you're confident enough about knowing that mutual sex between you two is an utter dead end and the two of you don't even have to say so out loud. Again - if this is the case then godspeed.

 

I'm just always skeptical of statements like "I know even though I haven't asked," that's all, and I'm sure you'll find the right level of communication for the situation. Just keep this in mind: With ENM, it is never good to let things go unspoken or to assume you and your partner are on the same page about anything. Even when you feel like you know, something always gets revealed as not matching what one or the other of you thought.

 

Words really, really count. And the ones we don't say, or ask for, somehow seem to count more than the ones we do.

[Phred]

2 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

I understand what you're saying, but I'm skeptical. I mean, I believe you, but this can't paper over everything. Some things have to be talked about in real words. I guess it depends how badly you want to defend your needs or how willing you are to instead just unilaterally sacrifice them.

 

Again, I know what you mean and I believe you. It isn't a magical mind-reading power, though. The unspoken sense of empathy doesn't and can't take the place of real words. The trick is to be empathetic with each other while listening to each other's words.

 

I know you're doing that for her. But you seem to be absolving her of any hope that she might do the same.

 

Is there anything you want to change? Anything more you need out of this situation, given that one thing you need isn't going to be had? Anything to ask for? Anything to seek witness to? Anything to show and have seen and have heard? Anything to figure out? Anything to make progress on?

 

Are you OK with nothing ever changing?

 

I don't know, I'm asking. 

 

Speaking for myself, on the subject of your original post, the way I deal with this is communicating and figuring out what to ask for. Because, I was not able to continue the way it was. And I knew that. Maybe your situation is different and if nothing changes you'll be fine, but for me, seeking change and seeing it manifest is critical. And the same is true of my wife - she's empathetic enough to get it on her own, it really tears her up to know that I'm bereft and unhappy. She wants change as much as I do, because she knows what the expectation of celibacy does to me.

 

So, I get what you mean: I don't often express my heartache to her, because she knows, she gets it, she can sense it. But I have, when I really needed to and really needed her to be a supportive partner and witness my pain. I trust her to let me cry it out while she witnesses. I needed it because it helped. It isn't about persuading her to change, it isn't about making it her fault, it isn't about reminding her how hard I have it, it just is about bonding together in support of our mutual needs.

 

And she has done the same with me. I thought she was not into it and still took her word for it that she was willing to try some kind of compromise sex together. What wound up happening was, I didn't ultimately say "no" to sex between us because it made her suffer, though I would have if I thought it did. Instead I said "no" to sex between us because we tried it and what worked for her, in terms of willingness and comfort, didn't work for me, in terms of providing what I want and need out of sex. We had to talk about all of this - it wasn't mind melding.

 

All I'm saying is empathy isn't a substitute for words. Maybe it's true that your situation doesn't require words because it's fine the way it is and no mutual change calling for an effort of partnership is needed here. In which case, I believe in that and respect it and maybe even envy it. It just isn't where I have been, in my own decades of this mis-matched marriage experience.

 

Words work. There have been many things I thought I knew about her and her experience and her attitudes and her boundaries, which I was wrong about.

 

Let me put it this way:

You're clearly interested in an extramarital solution.
So was I. But it is a last resort and I wanted to leave no stone un-turned before asking my wife to consider that. Like - I didn't want to ask her for that and have her come back with "but we haven't tried enough, the two of us."

 

Maybe you're confident enough about knowing that mutual sex between you two is an utter dead end and the two of you don't even have to say so out loud. Again - if this is the case then godspeed.

 

I'm just always skeptical of statements like "I know even though I haven't asked," that's all, and I'm sure you'll find the right level of communication for the situation. Just keep this in mind: With ENM, it is never good to let things go unspoken or to assume you and your partner are on the same page about anything. Even when you feel like you know, something always gets revealed as not matching what one or the other of you thought.

 

Words really, really count. And the ones we don't say, or ask for, somehow seem to count more than the ones we do.

@Olallieberry Believe me, we talk. Constantly. First and foremost is how we can make this work for both, I repeat, both of us. We have always had a kind of open relationship. Threesomes and such. Some swinging. I don't know if it was her trying to make me happy or her trying to come to terms with her situation in her own head. I do know that she was brought up in my generation where sex was expected from the wife. I can now see the problems that it brought her. That is part of my learning experience. 

 

By empathy I mean that I can see what hurts her. Given how long you have been with your significant other I imagine that you can see it as well.

 

We don't try to gloss over the important stuff, but we can realize when we hit certain boundaries. And we do let each other show our emotions. My wife has held me while I have cried. I do the same for her. I have cried for what I felt like is a loss. Our former passion. Our lust for each other. But we can move on from that and still keep the love. 

 

The extramarital stuff is just that. I am on dating websites with the express knowledge that I will not tolerate anyone trying to break up my relationship. It's built right into my Bio. I am taking things slow and I don't want to rush anything. This gives me time to discuss anything with my wife. Also protection is a must. While I may not be with my wife sexually I don't want her to have to deal with me wasting away. 

 

There is so much more that I could get into tonight, but let me just say that she has been a rock for me. We discuss everything now. I learned that the hard way by not discussing her situation until it became a thing for me. It should never have gotten to that point and that was my fault. I freely admit it. I should have been there for her journey as well as mine. 

[Phred]

We are finding ways to reconnect again. Where we live they block off about 6 square blocks once a month and invite vendors to set up shop in the street. We hadn't made it to one all season so we made a point of going to this one. The last of the year until autumn. I was able to get local honey, my beloved found a cute bag at a local lady's stall who does quilting, and we picked up some imported cheese from Italy. Add a bottle of apothic red with a cheese and fruit tray, and the movie "The African Queen" and we had a great day. Just cuddled together discussing the movie and which cheese went best with which fruit. And which combination didn't work. 

[Phred]

Thank you all for being here for me. I have re-read the thread tonight and found many gems (bits of advice) that I missed the first time through. I'm going to take a few weeks off and digest them. Feel free to continue this conversation. I can catch up later. I just need a mental health break right now. Going off grid to try and build on what we have rediscovered. She is still the love of my life. My Duke of New York, my A number one. 

[Phred]

Okay, 6 months break or so. I just feel the need to update everyone about how we are doing. 

 

Therapy. Don't ignore it. 

 

I feel like we are back together again. We are talking about our future and making plans for it. Yes, we have our differences due to our sexuality, but that doesn't stop our love. 

 

I think that we are closer to where my grandparents were when I was younger. They didn't necessarily agree with each other and might have slept in different rooms, but they still loved each other. 

 

Meanwhile I am exploring my own self. 

[AnxietyPocketInGrowProcess]

On 3/20/2025 at 9:07 PM, Phred said:

After 20+ years together it is like we are dating again. Finding out what our soft spots are and how we can navigate around them.(I.e. she doesn't like horror movies, so maybe I shouldn't take her to a horror movie. Maybe a bad analogy, but I hope that you understand where I am coming from

I know it is a bit too late, but by the time you wrote this I didn’t even think my partner could be asexual. We’ve been together for a year and three months, and I really can get this feeling although my partner doesn’t know yet if he’s asexual or not, like I’m in the position that I kinda feel bad for wishing he weren’t but and for a moment I get some hopes but then I think, you don’t have that for sure yet, he could end up being asexual, the fact that he is doubting his own sexuality doesn’t mean the fact that he could actually discover he is asexual.

He loves me deeply though and he is sure about that no matter what, but I kind of feel like I’ll have to re learn what he likes now, like yesterday I asked him with what kind of physical interactions he was okay.

[Windmills of My Mind]

2 hours ago, AnxietyPocketInGrowProcess said:

but I kind of feel like I’ll have to re learn what he likes now, like yesterday I asked him with what kind of physical interactions he was okay.

That's a good start. Could he answer right away?