I genuinely thought it was fake, but after reading all your comments and stories, I think I see~

[Gen of the Trees]

So y'all really do need sex for love reasons, huh? 

 

Up until now, when people claimed that sex was an important part of a relationship because it made them feel loved, I genuinely believed that was a lie they told themselves to try to elevate and justify their base animal instincts.  I thought it was manipulation - an attempt to make another person feel guilty for not wanting it, and I couldn't believe so many people were falling for it-- suckers!  (This all started about 40 years ago when I was 13 and I just couldn't understand what the hell was going on with everyone).  I specifically thought it was a method men used to manipulate their female partners into giving them what they wanted, or pastors used to manipulate women into being sexually subservient to husbands.

 

My thought process was "if it's something you'd be willing to do with a complete stranger, then it can't possibly have anything to do with love."  Hugging, holding hands, cuddling, etc. are all things one does with someone they love, so THOSE activities show love.  But sex?  That's just lust and primal instinct.  This has been my attitude and thought process all these years.

 

But after reading so many of your heart-wrenching stories (many from sexual women with ace men), I think I really understand that for you allosexuals, sex is not just a physical thing like eating or peeing, but an actual form of closeness.  I'll be honest, it still makes no sense to me and I can't understand how sex can be something necessary for love just like I wouldn't be able to understand someone saying that sneezing is an important part of love...but I acknowledge that just because I can't personally relate to something doesn't make it untrue.

 

So if you're a sexual person paired with or hurt by an asexual person, please consider that they may be under the same assumption(s) I was and they may not really *believe* that it's a big deal to go without it.  They may not be callous, but rather genuinely unaware of how much it hurts you, and may even believe you're trying to be manipulative.  This has been a huge revelation to me (second, of course, to the realization that I'm asexual) and I wish I had understood this years ago.

 

My heart goes out to all of you who are hurting because of an allo/ace love affair.  My own life has been destroyed by my asexuality so I feel nothing but empathy for all of you.

[Ceebs]

37 minutes ago, Gen of the Trees said:

So y'all really do need sex for love reasons, huh? 

You're right, yep.

 

Obviously people sometimes have sex in situations that don't involve love (that's not too much my thing personally, it's just too tied to deep emotional connection for me and at least the potential for falling in love), but yeah, in a romantic partnership, sexual intimacy is a form of affection and a way to connect with the person you love. Yes, it's also fun and physically enjoyable as well for sure haha, but it's about a lot more than that.

 

40 minutes ago, Gen of the Trees said:

My heart goes out to all of you who are hurting because of an allo/ace love affair.  My own life has been destroyed by my asexuality so I feel nothing but empathy for all of you.

It's tough on both sides of the equation, yeah. Having spent a few years when I was much younger unsure of my own sexuality, not really understanding the big deal about sex, and struggling with shame issues and various other factors that made me feel like I wasn't interested (which is how I found AVEN long ago), and having been previously married to someone who is ace, and also now being in a relationship with someone else who was once married to a probably-asexual partner... and of course having spent over 20 years on AVEN now and, like you, read many, many people's stories... I'm very aware that sexual mismatches and all the issues that come with them are really difficult to navigate whether you're the asexual partner or the sexual one. From those experiences when I was young, I once related to the sense of being alienated from the way other people talked about sex. It really took me a while to get to where I am today. And of course I get what's it's like on the sexual side of the equation, when the other person doesn't connect sexual intimacy to the feelings you have for each other and the effects that can have on both parties. You can't make another person actually feel the way you do about something and you can't make them stop feeling whatever they do -- and it's no one's fault. People are who they are and there isn't a 'wrong' way to have a sexuality.

 

I'm sorry for the struggles and heartbreak it sounds like you've experienced. Empathy goes a long way towards mutual understanding, and while it might not 'fix' a relationship that just isn't working, it can certainly help with healing. And it sounds like you have a lot of empathy. Go easy on yourself as best you can; there's nothing wrong with your sexuality. Hopefully finding AVEN and connecting with other asexuals helps you feel and believe that that's true.

[uhtred]

Unfortunately @Gen of the Trees previous feelings about sex are shared by a significant number of asexuals who have not come here or similarly forums to learn more. (Just as many sexual people totally understand how many asexual people feel about sex).

 

It really is good that @Gen of the Trees has taken the time and effort to learn more!.   I really mean that - many people are unable / unwilling to investigate the possibilities that their own beliefs / assumptions were wrong.

 

Some sexuals are married to asexuals who understand the issues, and there is a real attempt to find compromise.  In other cases though (like my wife) the asexual person really does believe sex is just a physical thing and all the talk about "love" is totally fake.   I've had my desire for sex described by my wife as "like a spoiled child who is unhappy because they didn't get dessert".  

 

As an aside, many, maybe most sexual people do not want sex with strangers.  Some do (and that is fine), but many only want sex in the context of a close relationship.  I also think that the extent to which sex is coupled to feeling of love / romance varies a lot from person to person.  There are some people where its just a fun physical act, and there are some where sex is the only really difference for them between friendship and love (and lots of things in between, like a female friend of mine who finds sex with men romantic but sex with women to simply be physically fun).

 

Also, for some people (including me) there is no boarder between holding hands, hugging and sex.  At least for me they are all facets of physical intimacy and something I enjoy (only) with a romantic partner (I find hugs from non-romantic partners to be off-putting )

 

 

@Gen of the Trees you are still alive (no idea how old) so you have not destroyed your life.  Starting now you can figure out what you want out of relationships for the remainder of your life and enjoy that.

[Gen of the Trees]

On 2/5/2025 at 6:41 PM, uhtred said:

 you are still alive (no idea how old) so you have not destroyed your life.  Starting now you can figure out what you want out of relationships for the remainder of your life and enjoy that.

 

Thank you for this.  My therapist said "when you're in demolition it can be hard to imagine rebuilding, but the rebuilding time will come when it's time." 

 

I also appreciate the rest of your comment.  There are a lot of shitty things about the internet, but one good thing is the ability to reach out and find others like you and grow in knowledge and understanding, about yourself and about others.  This site has been immensely helpful to me and I've told my (soon-to-be-ex) husband about it, specifically the SPFA board.

[Gen of the Trees]

On 2/5/2025 at 3:01 PM, Mrs Telecaster-to-be said:

You're right, yep.

 

Obviously people sometimes have sex in situations that don't involve love (that's not too much my thing personally, it's just too tied to deep emotional connection for me and at least the potential for falling in love), but yeah, in a romantic partnership, sexual intimacy is a form of affection and a way to connect with the person you love. Yes, it's also fun and physically enjoyable as well for sure haha, but it's about a lot more than that.

 

It's tough on both sides of the equation, yeah. Having spent a few years when I was much younger unsure of my own sexuality, not really understanding the big deal about sex, and struggling with shame issues and various other factors that made me feel like I wasn't interested (which is how I found AVEN long ago), and having been previously married to someone who is ace, and also now being in a relationship with someone else who was once married to a probably-asexual partner... and of course having spent over 20 years on AVEN now and, like you, read many, many people's stories... I'm very aware that sexual mismatches and all the issues that come with them are really difficult to navigate whether you're the asexual partner or the sexual one. From those experiences when I was young, I once related to the sense of being alienated from the way other people talked about sex. It really took me a while to get to where I am today. And of course I get what's it's like on the sexual side of the equation, when the other person doesn't connect sexual intimacy to the feelings you have for each other and the effects that can have on both parties. You can't make another person actually feel the way you do about something and you can't make them stop feeling whatever they do -- and it's no one's fault. People are who they are and there isn't a 'wrong' way to have a sexuality.

 

I'm sorry for the struggles and heartbreak it sounds like you've experienced. Empathy goes a long way towards mutual understanding, and while it might not 'fix' a relationship that just isn't working, it can certainly help with healing. And it sounds like you have a lot of empathy. Go easy on yourself as best you can; there's nothing wrong with your sexuality. Hopefully finding AVEN and connecting with other asexuals helps you feel and believe that that's true.

Thank you for this insight!  It's so very interesting how much we (and I really do think ALL of us do this for much of our lives) walk around assuming we understand what's going on with other people when in fact we really have no clue because every human's experience is unique just as every human is unique.  Your journey sounds like it's been an interesting ride.

 

[Ceebs]

4 hours ago, Gen of the Trees said:

Your journey sounds like it's been an interesting ride.

Bit of an understatement haha, yep. The short version is... presumed heterosexual by default > asexual heteroromantic? > nope wait, I think I'm probably into sex after all but still have a shitload of issues surrounding it... and oh, apparently I'm into women too > bisexual > hrmm, maybe just a lesbian, and finally comfortable with my sexuality > ah shit wait no, definitely still actually bisexual after all. 😂

 

4 hours ago, Gen of the Trees said:

It's so very interesting how much we (and I really do think ALL of us do this for much of our lives) walk around assuming we understand what's going on with other people when in fact we really have no clue because every human's experience is unique just as every human is unique. 

For sure, yep. 
 

It seems some people really never question their sexuality and I'm a bit envious of that, but others take a more complicated route to figuring themselves out. Hopefully we all get there in the end. And yeah, it really is often pretty easy to assume other people are experiencing (or not experiencing) things the same way we do. 
 

IMO, it's a very good thing that human sexuality is as diverse as it is.  

[uhtred]

9 hours ago, Gen of the Trees said:

Thank you for this insight!  It's so very interesting how much we (and I really do think ALL of us do this for much of our lives) walk around assuming we understand what's going on with other people when in fact we really have no clue because every human's experience is unique just as every human is unique.  Your journey sounds like it's been an interesting ride.

 

So many problems would be helped in the world if more people would do what you did and try to understand what other people are thinking / feeling, and to be willing to recognize that they can be mistaken in their assumption.

 

Sexuality is a particularly difficult case because its such an integrated part of how someone feels, that its very difficult to imagine feeling differently. 

[Traveler40]

On 2/7/2025 at 10:50 AM, Gen of the Trees said:

but the rebuilding time will come when it's time." 

Sure, but you need to make the choice, do the planning, hire the contractor and intentionally start building. 
 

 

[Traveler40]

On 2/7/2025 at 9:36 PM, uhtred said:

So many problems would be helped in the world if more people would do what you did and try to understand what other people are thinking / feeling, and to be willing to recognize that they can be mistaken in their assumption.

💯  

 

I had to double take @uhtred. You’re right. It would be great to try and apply that to how sex might be for those actually working option 3.

[dlnvu19]

On 2/5/2025 at 2:59 PM, Gen of the Trees said:

Up until now, when people claimed that sex was an important part of a relationship because it made them feel loved, I genuinely believed that was a lie they told themselves to try to elevate and justify their base animal instincts.  I thought it was manipulation - an attempt to make another person feel guilty for not wanting it, and I couldn't believe so many people were falling for it-- suckers!  (This all started about 40 years ago when I was 13 and I just couldn't understand what the hell was going on with everyone).  I specifically thought it was a method men used to manipulate their female partners into giving them what they wanted, or pastors used to manipulate women into being sexually subservient to husbands.

I'm still in this mindset but it's because I've been so severely hurt by my experiences with allosexuals that I'm, admittedly, jaded.

 

I suppose I could try to empathize by applying how being sexually desired by someone makes me feel and just inverting that experience to get a rough idea of what allosexuals feel when they aren't sexually desired by their partners. For me, being sexually desired made/makes me feel devalued, unloved, and dehumanized. Almost like an object that only exists to satiate someone's sexual urges. A living sex toy if you will.

 

This could also be due to the fact that the allosexuals I had relationships with were all individuals who engaged in casual sex and hook-ups "for fun." So, I guess, their sexual pasts made it nearly impossible for me to take them seriously when they told me they considered sex with a partner as a way to connect and show love. Because as far as I'm concerned, they clearly were capable of just having sex with just about anyone to get off. How could I have believed them when they said sex with me was different and more meaningful? Why should I have believed them when they'd demonstrated with their past sexual behaviors that they can have sex with just about anyone in order to get their rocks off?

 

Sorry if that sounds judgmental but I'd be willing to give someone who only has sex within the confines of a committed and emotionally bonded relationship the benefit of the doubt over someone who can't even remember how many sexual partners and hook-ups they've had. And those were the only type of allosexuals I've had relationships with. That's probably why as soon as we had sex, I immediately stopped trusting them. And the more we did it, the more disconnected from them and gross I felt.

[lovetolove]

On 4/17/2025 at 1:43 AM, dlnvu19 said:

I'm still in this mindset but it's because I've been so severely hurt by my experiences with allosexuals that I'm, admittedly, jaded.

 

I suppose I could try to empathize by applying how being sexually desired by someone makes me feel and just inverting that experience to get a rough idea of what allosexuals feel when they aren't sexually desired by their partners. For me, being sexually desired made/makes me feel devalued, unloved, and dehumanized. Almost like an object that only exists to satiate someone's sexual urges. A living sex toy if you will.

 

This could also be due to the fact that the allosexuals I had relationships with were all individuals who engaged in casual sex and hook-ups "for fun." So, I guess, their sexual pasts made it nearly impossible for me to take them seriously when they told me they considered sex with a partner as a way to connect and show love. Because as far as I'm concerned, they clearly were capable of just having sex with just about anyone to get off. How could I have believed them when they said sex with me was different and more meaningful? Why should I have believed them when they'd demonstrated with their past sexual behaviors that they can have sex with just about anyone in order to get their rocks off?

 

Sorry if that sounds judgmental but I'd be willing to give someone who only has sex within the confines of a committed and emotionally bonded relationship the benefit of the doubt over someone who can't even remember how many sexual partners and hook-ups they've had. And those were the only type of allosexuals I've had relationships with. That's probably why as soon as we had sex, I immediately stopped trusting them. And the more we did it, the more disconnected from them and gross I felt.

I think there's an awful lot of sexual people  who would identify with you on this.  Many people need to believe that the sexual connection is deep and meaningful in order to feel safe, loved, and secure. Hard to trust someone who doesn't place the same level of importance on the emotions as well as the sexual act(s). 

 

 

[dlnvu19]

On 4/19/2025 at 7:55 AM, lovetolove said:

I think there's an awful lot of sexual people  who would identify with you on this.  Many people need to believe that the sexual connection is deep and meaningful in order to feel safe, loved, and secure. Hard to trust someone who doesn't place the same level of importance on the emotions as well as the sexual act(s). 

 

 

I still can't wrap my head around this concept. To me, sex is so violating and degrading. I can't imagine how anyone could garner feelings of love, let alone "safety and security" from such an act. Having sex made me feel like garbage and I ended up in a mental hospital on a couple of occasions because being sexual with my past partners brought me to a point of wanting to exit this world. It's that severe of a violation for me.

When allosexuals talk about feeling "loved, safe, and secure" from sex with their partners, what I actually hear is something along the lines of: "I need to be repeatedly violated, degraded, and abused by my partner in order to feel loved, safe, and secure." It's pure, incomprehensible, madness. But you guys do you, I guess. I'm not playing the allosexual game, anymore. It's bad for my mental health.

 

I understand this severely lowers my prospects for companionship. And I'm at a point where I just no longer care. I'm almost 40. It's a wrap.

[jont]

On 2/5/2025 at 2:59 PM, Gen of the Trees said:

So y'all really do need sex for love reasons, huh? 

 

Up until now, when people claimed that sex was an important part of a relationship because it made them feel loved, I genuinely believed that was a lie they told themselves to try to elevate and justify their base animal instincts.  I thought it was manipulation - an attempt to make another person feel guilty for not wanting it, and I couldn't believe so many people were falling for it-- suckers!  (This all started about 40 years ago when I was 13 and I just couldn't understand what the hell was going on with everyone).  I specifically thought it was a method men used to manipulate their female partners into giving them what they wanted, or pastors used to manipulate women into being sexually subservient to husbands.

 

My thought process was "if it's something you'd be willing to do with a complete stranger, then it can't possibly have anything to do with love."  Hugging, holding hands, cuddling, etc. are all things one does with someone they love, so THOSE activities show love.  But sex?  That's just lust and primal instinct.  This has been my attitude and thought process all these years.

 

But after reading so many of your heart-wrenching stories (many from sexual women with ace men), I think I really understand that for you allosexuals, sex is not just a physical thing like eating or peeing, but an actual form of closeness.  I'll be honest, it still makes no sense to me and I can't understand how sex can be something necessary for love just like I wouldn't be able to understand someone saying that sneezing is an important part of love...but I acknowledge that just because I can't personally relate to something doesn't make it untrue.

 

So if you're a sexual person paired with or hurt by an asexual person, please consider that they may be under the same assumption(s) I was and they may not really *believe* that it's a big deal to go without it.  They may not be callous, but rather genuinely unaware of how much it hurts you, and may even believe you're trying to be manipulative.  This has been a huge revelation to me (second, of course, to the realization that I'm asexual) and I wish I had understood this years ago.

 

My heart goes out to all of you who are hurting because of an allo/ace love affair.  My own life has been destroyed by my asexuality so I feel nothing but empathy for all of you.

Or, could it just be that a love relationship ideally means completely and openly sharing ourselves with each other. This would include our sexuality, that "lust and primal instinct" or sensual/sexual pleasure seeking. The completely asexual person might have very little to share in this way. They might do some things because it brings their partner pleasure, but it would lack actual passion.

 

For me, I know that I have libido and I pleasure myself sexually, but I have never been able to share this sexuality in an open and unguarded way with another person. I just cannot become aroused. While I can accept that successful mutually satisfying sex with another person might never happen for me, for now I consider myself demisexual in hope that in a relationship with sufficient trust and deep emotional connection it could happen.

[mostweasel]

On 5/2/2025 at 5:48 AM, dlnvu19 said:

When allosexuals talk about feeling "loved, safe, and secure" from sex with their partners, what I actually hear is something along the lines of: "I need to be repeatedly violated, degraded, and abused by my partner in order to feel loved, safe, and secure." It's pure, incomprehensible, madness.

Ugh. This comment almost made me sick to my stomach. I hate this perspective but I am so grateful to you for sharing it, particularly in a section of these forums where it goes against the allo grain.

 

It is very easy to find validation as an allosexual, not always specifically on the matter of being in a mixed relationship (AVEN is still the only place I've been able to reliably find that), but I don't need to look hard at all to find my sexuality being reinforced and encouraged. Hell, that's one of the greatest impediments to celibacy is how much sex seems to surround us everyday.

 

But this perspective from so far on the opposite end of the spectrum is something I'll almost never encounter outside of a forum like this. It's unpleasant and sad and completely bizarre to me, but it's obviously true and real. It must feel crushing at times to be in the same reality as so many hypersexual perspectives when that's what sex means to you.

[Liara]

Sadly I already read a lot of sexual women who feel like that because their (male) partners were very selfish and bad in bed…

[uhtred]

I think its important to remember that different people like different things of all sorts, not just sex.  Just as an example, for some people a perfect vacation is sitting on a beach on a tropical island, drinking a cold drink with an umbrella in it.  For other people a perfect vacation is a week of difficult hiking in the wilderness, sleeping in a cold damp tent, and keeping an eye out for bears.  For still others its a week of wild drunken parties.  They are all fine, there is no need for people to want the same things.

 

Some people never want sex - and that is fine. Some people only want romantic gentle sex,  some people are into a wide range of kinks.  Its all good as long as people are able to be honest about what they want and no one feels coerced.

 

For @dlnvu19  many sexual people, both men and women,  find sex to be the most wonderful part of a relationship and almost always actively enjoy it.  "Violation", "degradation", etc, are very uncommon in consensual relationships, despite their appearance in porn.  Some people do enjoy that, but for the great majority of people, sex with the person they love is not like that.   Of course there is also abuse / assault, but that is clearly not part of any loving relationship