My wife thinks she might be ace. I have some questions.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

I don't think vindictive is authentic. Its maybe authentic to a 'hurt' part of you, but that's very narrow and I think something to ask is.. do you want to be someone who does something vindictive to a partner?

 

Being able to express and talk about that pain can be more direct without trying to hurt someone back.

[Olallieberry]

There is one level at which I would say: I don't think it's inauthentic, I just think it's unhelpful.

There is another level at which I would say: It's also not "owning" anything. It's assigning "fault" rather than just being  transparent about one's own business. It's a defense mechanism rather than a self-actualization. All of these could be interpreted as "inauthentic," I suppose.

 

In any confrontation, I try to make it about me and not about them. They can't justify their own defensiveness if I don't accuse them of anything. They can't justify attacking me back if I am only showing vulnerability to begin with. They can't connect empathetically if I'm blaming, attacking and "trying to win."

[cresting830]

4 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Its maybe authentic to a 'hurt' part of you, but that's very narrow and I think something to ask is.. do you want to be someone who does something vindictive to a partner?

Being hurt can drown out a whole lot of reason. But I see your point... I'd rather not add more pain onto an already rought situation for the both of us.

 

24 minutes ago, Olallieberry said:

It's assigning "fault" rather than just being  transparent about one's own business. It's a defense mechanism rather than a self-actualization. All of these could be interpreted as "inauthentic," I suppose.

Hmmmm I think I might get it... a defense mechanism is there to shield or protect or hide something and therefore it's inauthentic because the source of that reaction is hidden and so you're not communicating clearly or authentically but through a veil.

 

 

 

We've finally sat down today and had a long exhaustive talk. It was a lot to process but here is what I can process right now. We started with what she wrote in her journal. She said that she feels awefull that it took her so long to finally do it and I inquired what got her to sit down and write it. She said that she had a lot on her mind that day and that it finally was time to do it. So me being short that day did at least not consciously trigger this. I told her how I felt that day and she mentioned that it didn't consciously affect her but might've been another push to write it. We talked about what the implications of what she wrote were, for those that don't want to scroll up it was along the lines of her coming to terms of truly not yearning for sex and being fine with not seeking it or having any. She wrote that she missed our cuddles and little shenanigans (that were flirtatious to sexual nature) and I told her that this missing is something that I've been doing for a while now and shared the love tank metaphor with her and this might've clicked for. She said she did enjoy our sort of sexual quabbles and I mentioned that this might be the last little bit that was missing in her tank but more was not needed. She once or twice mentioned that she has moments of excitement but that they don't reach a point of taking action. Our little shenanigans or her game or spicy books may just be enough to satiate that. I said that what she wrote was brave and must've taken a lot of guts and she said that it felt right and freeing and that she was reluctant at first easier as she went and that she started it as an observation and ended it as a letter to me which is why she wanted me to read it. This might be something that works for her to process this and she want's to try doing this weekly.

Then we talked about the frequency in which we talk about the progress and she said that she has been stuck for months. She want's to do something. Overthinks. Get's stuck. Drops it and repeats this next time. Somewhat the same sprial over and over again (hey thats my overthinking as well sometimes). I asked what she attempted once she realized her spiraling. She said more spiraling and now the journaling made it stop for now. I mentioned that I've done a LOT of self examination on the subject but also reached a point where I needed outside perspective that I've gotten from here and shared a few anecdotes I've come along. She said that she's tried reading some posts here and in her words they all read like "it wouldn't work anyways just move on" which made her feel dejected and she just left. I  said that there's so many unique experiences and that when I wrote mine I didn't anticipate people sharing their varried but also very similar experiences and the fresh ideas and interpretations that helped me get unstuck and she was quite open to that idea so she may try it at some point.

We talked about what she wrote and that it basically meant that the sex we're having... for the most part...is already just for me. She promply mentioned that I don't force her to do anything and that she's having her fun and not an unwilling participant at all. I said that I get what she means but that there's also no motivation on her own to seek this form of connection, no yearning on her end, no enthusiasm... I quoted what she wrote and what that implied and she held the thought for a moment and then agreed to that assertion. 

We've talked about the radical vulnerability idea that @Olallieberry wrote about a bit earlier and that it feels like we're making strides towards that and that we're currently not YET at a point where we feel that we can share the absolute unfiltered truth because we're both afraid that the other couldn't take it in. I said that we both are afraid to put all cards on the table because that would make the consequences for not following through on progress pretty clear and we're both afraid of that clarity. But ultimately postponing and running away from that will build anger, guilt and resentment and will make the worst case scenario more likely due to that. Fuck I'm not sure if this was the right thing to say it feels sort of blamey now that I read it.

I've tossed individual and couples therapy in the ring and she was not a fan. She said that as of now, she's struggling to put what she is feeling into words so she doubts that she could formulate something that a professional could do anything with. We're gonna get back to that later on. I will most likely seek individual therapy next time I visit my GP for a referal.

We've talked about me feeling a bit short with her and she said she didn't feel that at all. I mentioned the few instances that I could remember and said that with the chasm between us being so wide it may have been me being very scared of being of different opinions because it would drive us farther away then we already are. Fueling the disconnect so to speak. Plausible but honestly corelation and causation. I get where my gut is coming from but that's gotta go. We can't share the same opinion always and that isn't related to what else is going on.

 

We've ended on a couple todos as always. Keep the journaling up (she still has a few questions and may find new ones if she choses to write here or somewhere else). Figure out a way we want to handle sexual intimacy moving forward. Think of ways to initiate and progress that are low stakes and comfortable for her. Try and see and adjust as we go. For me it's mourning and burrying what I had hoped our sex-life would be and making it work with what we can build.

 

@blaigorn so much for not overwhelming them huh. Fuck I gotta pace myself. We talked about that as well because these conversation are long, loaded and exhausting and that IS because we keep not doing them over and over and over. We'll try to do better.

 

 

[Olallieberry]

7 minutes ago, cresting830 said:

postponing and running away from that will build anger, guilt and resentment and will make the worst case scenario more likely due to that. Fuck I'm not sure if this was the right thing to say it feels sort of blamey now that I read it.

It's not blamey to anticipate it. It's realistic and cautionary.

 

It's blamey when it has already happened and you then blame someone for it.

[blaigorn]

1 hour ago, cresting830 said:

@blaigorn so much for not overwhelming them huh. Fuck I gotta pace myself. We talked about that as well because these conversation are long, loaded and exhausting and that IS because we keep not doing them over and over and over. We'll try to do better.

Can you appreciate the amount of progress you two did on this? It's no easy feat. Sure it might not have been perfect or how you idealized, but you have made huge strides. Probably early to process but it's a step, and I think in the right direction!

 

1 hour ago, cresting830 said:

She said that as of now, she's struggling to put what she is feeling into words so she doubts that she could formulate something that a professional could do anything with.

Any average to good professional would be able to help her get her feelings into words.I know mine have. It's difficult sometimes, but they have tools and frameworks to help her. It's someone that will be completely on her side!

[Olallieberry]

3 hours ago, cresting830 said:

She said that as of now, she's struggling to put what she is feeling into words so she doubts that she could formulate something that a professional could do anything with

Here's the thing about therapy.

 

She would have to know what she wanted to achieve with therapy. What would her therapeutic goal be?

 

As long as she can put that into words at any level at all, then a therapist could help her.

 

 

[cresting830]

7 hours ago, blaigorn said:

Can you appreciate the amount of progress you two did on this? It's no easy feat. Sure it might not have been perfect or how you idealized, but you have made huge strides. Probably early to process but it's a step, and I think in the right direction!

Oh I absolutely appreciate it. I totally get that this is all very new for her and after yesterdays conversation a thought arose. In my writing I may come off as impatient and I still think that I am a little and am working on pacing my expectations. Yesterday also showed that a lot of this impatience comes from the lack of communication. Her spiraling and doing the same thing over and over. We've had this years ago in another setting where she told me "I thought it would fix itself somehow" while we specifically ended the previous talk on "this need conscious effort to work" that stung hard back then and I think that was one of the only times I've gotten truly agitated with her response. I'm getting sidetracked... we have a history of not following through and I have understanding for not following through on things that are hard and everytime she explains how hard these things are for her it always helps. I've been doing this for so long and her situation is so different that I struggle with getting every of her struggles. But putting them into words and relaying them to me helps so so much. It's as if she is desperately trying to do this on her own because.... yeah that's a good question I gotta ask her later.

Communication is key once again and we're lacking but working on that.

 

6 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

As long as she can put that into words at any level at all, then a therapist could help her

Yes exactly that. And yesterday she communicated that she is not there yet... actually now it makes sense why she dropped the couples counceling thing entirely a few months back... Once again... communication is key!

 

I remembered something:

10 hours ago, cresting830 said:

Then we talked about the frequency in which we talk about the progress and she said that she has been stuck for months. She want's to do something. Overthinks. Get's stuck. Drops it and repeats this next time. Somewhat the same sprial over and over again (hey thats my overthinking as well sometimes). I asked what she attempted once she realized her spiraling.

The way I asked... in the moment made her get defensive and rightfully so. There was a tone in the way I asked that was accusatory. I get why I chose this way of communicating but I gotta work on that, it's not helpfull (is this vindictive??). Sorry but I am painting a very one-sided picture here and want to hold myself accountable for my shortcomings when I see them.

[Sally]

10 minutes ago, cresting830 said:

"I thought it would fix itself somehow"

I've been asexual all my life but didn't know that there was such a thing until I was -- let us say -- mature, and having been in a relationship which included sex for 30+ years.  I also thought that if I just keep trying to enjoy sex, it would finally happen.  But of course it didn't.  I think if I'd talked with my partner earlier and he'd suggested counseling/therapy, I wouldn't have wanted to do any -- because I simply didn't want to have sex.  Once I started reading about asexuality, I didn't like the idea of trying to be "fixed" -- I was who I was.  I was sorry that I couldn't enjoy something that my partner really enjoyed and wanted, but I couldn't, any more than he could not want to have.  We were simply different.  

[Olallieberry]

16 hours ago, cresting830 said:

Yes exactly that. And yesterday she communicated that she is not there yet... actually now it makes sense why she dropped the couples counceling thing entirely a few months back... Once again... communication is key!

Well, the real key is she would have to want something from it.

 

If she doesn't, then all she has to communicate is "no thanks." The communication is not the obstacle there.

[cresting830]

6 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

If she doesn't, then all she has to communicate is "no thanks."

Ohh from our talk it sounded like she is very confused by her sexual identity and doesn't quite know what questions to process and how to process them. Coping strategies for the spiraling? I may have a completely wrong idea on what a therapist would actually be capable of doing. If the journaling goes the way our other attempts go... and me communicating the need for progress and that being sidelined over and over again because it's to hard for her... maybe an outside motivation could help?

 

edit: but... this is all stuff I wish for and not necessarily what she might wish for... yeah I'll have to wait and see.

 

23 hours ago, cresting830 said:

It's as if she is desperately trying to do this on her own because.... yeah that's a good question I gotta ask her later.

I asked her that yesterday. The gist of her response is that it seems like when she is just thinking about it she has trouble focusing on the topic at hand and negativity polutes the process. When we talk it's hard for her to sort her thoughts in real time or a timely manner (I'm always rambling and going back and forth but it seems to be more then that). When writing it down it "bypasses" these issues. Like... the act of writing it down occupies differently and so there's less trailing thoughts.

I asked if she feels that she needs to do this on her own because I have done so and she wants to match that or if me saying "I'd love to help however I can but some things you need to work out with yourself because I can't look inside your head and can only work with what you tell me" came off as -> figure it out on your own. She said a strong no to both of those so I'm glad.

 

  

23 hours ago, Sally said:

We were simply different.

I take that as, it didn't work out? But in general to your response. Yeah she and I both have been working under the high libido low libido mindset for a long while and that was a very solution based approach. But now her and me need to switch gears into an acceptance based approach and re-building something from there. We seem to both be struggling with the shift due to various hangups, fears etc.

[Sally]

On 5/13/2025 at 10:37 PM, cresting830 said:

I take that as, it didn't work out?

No, that's not true.  Our relationship continued without sex, for another 15 years.  Just as it's possible that some people continue a relationship with minimal sex as a compromise between sexual and asexual, which is an advantage for the sexual, relationships can continue with no sex, which is an advantage for the asexual.

 

Perhaps it's time for both of you to realize that this is a situation where it's possible that a rebuild may be hoped for,  but it isn't an absolute.  You appear to expect it; she may not, and may be feeling pretty pressured by your expectations.  

 

[blaigorn]

3 hours ago, Sally said:

Just as it's possible that some people continue a relationship with minimal sex as a compromise between sexual and asexual, which is an advantage for the sexual, relationships can continue with no sex, which is an advantage for the asexual.

I may interpreted this wrong (and I apologize if I did) but I wouldn’t say minimal sex is an advantage for the sexual, unless you mean the minimum amount and engagement of sex that is satisfiable to the sexual, regardless of the asexual preferences (assuming consent from both parties of course).

 

I think a true compromise only works when both parties are satisfied with the arrangement, and that’s done by setting clear expectations of what are the boundaries, what is the expected frequency, what is the expected involvement and enthusiasm. It might not be the ideal for either of the parties, but if they are both satisfied, consenting and happy about the compromise, I think that is the goal to strive for.

 

An arrangement like that might not be possible for either party though, and that’s where people need to decide what they are willing to give in for the sake of the relationship 

[Olallieberry]

6 hours ago, blaigorn said:

I wouldn’t say minimal sex is an advantage for the sexual

There do seem to be people who will take any sex at all, no matter how unsexy, unthrilling, and unappealing, over zero sex.

 

So it depends.

 

For me, there is ✌️"sex"✌️ which is not better than no sex.

 

As another member said once, that would be a "fuck it, we're both miserable" situation.

[Sally]

4 hours ago, blaigorn said:

I think a true compromise only works when both parties are satisfied with the arrangement

That depends on whether "satisfied" means that they recognize that they can't have what they really want, but can have something that's better than nothing.  I doubt if any compromise brings what most people would term satisfaction.  

[blaigorn]

5 hours ago, Sally said:

That depends on whether "satisfied" means that they recognize that they can't have what they really want, but can have something that's better than nothing.  I doubt if any compromise brings what most people would term satisfaction.  

I think @Olallieberry made a good point about maybe it depends on the person. I don’t think for me “something” is better than nothing. I could try and compromise on a lot of things, such as frequency (ie: my ideal would be multiple times a week, but I think I could be ok with once a month), boundaries (I think I could be ok with non-penetrative and non-oral, although my ideal would contain those) and spontaneity (i could settle for scheduled sex, and having to initiate, although my ideal would maybe me a mix of this). I don’t think I’d be fully satisfied with a compromise like this, but I think I could have a modicum of sexual intimacy back in my life, so it would be a place from where I could learn to manage what’s lacking and appreciate what we do have. I know that might go beyond what my wife is capable of, so it might not be a possible compromise.

 

What I know I can’t settle is with the so called “duty sex”, the sex that’s only done out of my obvious misery and the feelings of guilt for not providing it. The sex is that’s almost devoid of any intimacy and it’s only physical. That would be “something”, but I wouldn’t say it’s to anyone’s advantage. Maybe for some people that would work, but unfortunately it does not for me.

[cresting830]

14 hours ago, Sally said:

Perhaps it's time for both of you to realize that this is a situation where it's possible that a rebuild may be hoped for,  but it isn't an absolute.  You appear to expect it; she may not, and may be feeling pretty pressured by your expectations.  

I think I'm way to early into the mourning process to hear and feel this as true and I try to keep my hope to myself while communicating. But yeah... the implications or some way I communicate might add pressure. Can't know for sure if she doesn't communicate.

 

9 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

For me, there is ✌️"sex"✌️ which is not better than no sex.

You've mentioned something along those lines earlier and I've been terrified to to to initiate ever since because I fear that this is ultimately it. More mourning.

 

5 hours ago, Sally said:

That depends on whether "satisfied" means that they recognize that they can't have what they really want, but can have something that's better than nothing.  I doubt if any compromise brings what most people would term satisfaction.  

All of this is so loaded oh boy. I, currently, believe in some form of consensus being possible. As I said, I'm really deep in the hopium stage right now. This form of consensus requires some hefty mental rewiring work. Communicate boundaries, limitations of both parties and understanding that this is all they can give without compromising their own wellbeing. re-adjust expectations accordingly and find way to accept this as the status quo. From what I've read up on the definitions my wife would fall into the sex-favorable category and she has mentioned plenty of time that giving me pleasure is making her happy and that she feels desired. I have to ask her about the specifics and where she would see herself.

 

In general... I've read that ace and especially gray-ace identifying people can have a libido and a need for self pleasure. I've also read that being ace/gray-ace is something one is born with and might take a long time to figure out and they can mask by doing what is expected of them by partners or society to fit into the presumed normal. Is all of this correct so far? 

If correct this would mean that I've unknowingly and unintentionally perpetuated and projected and expectation. We didn't know any better at the time. I have a hard time putting all of what we've had that also had sexual passion into this shifting context. That all of this was... a mask. It shakes the foundation quite hard and I think she is going through a similar thing.

 

I feel like I'm going backwards in my understanding and acceptance day by day. Maybe that this clinging to something and not being able to let go so you face away from it...

 

@blaigorn we found that Allo and Ace podcast and while give it a listen. Thanks for the rec.

[blaigorn]

5 hours ago, cresting830 said:

 

In general... I've read that ace and especially gray-ace identifying people can have a libido and a need for self pleasure. I've also read that being ace/gray-ace is something one is born with and might take a long time to figure out and they can mask by doing what is expected of them by partners or society to fit into the presumed normal. Is all of this correct so far? 

Yep, from what I've read (and my wife's experiences) this seems like it would describe a big part of people on the asexual spectrum. In fact, it might describe a big part of anyone anywhere 😅

 

5 hours ago, cresting830 said:

If correct this would mean that I've unknowingly and unintentionally perpetuated and projected and expectation. We didn't know any better at the time. I have a hard time putting all of what we've had that also had sexual passion into this shifting context. That all of this was... a mask. It shakes the foundation quite hard and I think she is going through a similar thing.

I think so. Not that it wasn't real, I think you both thought you were having the "expected" sexual relationship or act. It might just be that she had to pretend, for herself, and for you, even if unconsciously.

 

I remember how hard I took when my wife told me she never truly enjoyed any of it with me. She did it because she felt it was expected of her, out of guilt and pressure (societal and my own). She hated having to say no and then me asking again after a bit of making out (because I saw making out as foreplay, she sees making out as making out). She told me that she felt good when it was done, because it meant I was satisfied and that she was "off the hook" for the next days. She hated when she said yes, when she felt she didn't want to. If this sounds like borderline rape, I understand, because hearing this from her broke me. She reassured me she always consented and that she never felt like I wouldn't stop or ignore her wishes. But still, I never want her to feel like that again, and I'm happy we are in a place where we understand each other.

 

6 hours ago, cresting830 said:

I feel like I'm going backwards in my understanding and acceptance day by day. Maybe that this clinging to something and not being able to let go so you face away from it...

This is natural. Some progress feels like it puts you in a worse place. Sometimes new understanding will feel like whatever you accepted or understood before is shattered, and you have to build a new understanding. But it's progress! You and your wife are rebuilding yourselves and your own understanding of your relationship. I really like a quote my wife said during our last therapy session together. She said we are discovering what our relationship means after we discovered ourselves. And we are building a new relationship together. That takes effort, but we've been through a lot together.

[Sally]

17 hours ago, cresting830 said:

I've also read that being ace/gray-ace is something one is born with and might take a long time to figure out and they can mask by doing what is expected of them by partners or society to fit into the presumed normal. Is all of this correct so far? 

That's what happened to me, because being older, I'd never heard of asexuality, and I thought that if I just kept trying, I'd eventually grow to like having sex.  It didn't work; I actually became more irritated by the emotional duty of having sex in order to please my partner (who had no better idea of what was going on than I did).  

[cresting830]

Hey there, ist has been a minute since my last update. Last we left off was my wife stating that she liked writing that journal and that she'd attempt to do this on a weekly basis. I have gotten the next entry two days ago. I feel so conflicted about it. Like there were talks over the last couple weeks where something happened and she said she'd want to write about it. Or a specific thing came up and she said "I am free tomorrow and there's something I wan't to write" and I get home and she happily tells me of the chores she has done and I'm left standing there conflicted. We haven't talked about the topic at hand at all so no weekly check ins. Nothing. We've had sex that she initiated... I can't do it anymore. She was on vacation with a friend for a few days and when she came back she tried complimenting me on my sexyness and I told her that I am currently not in a mindset to handle that. I asked if she was just doing it for me to which she replied yes. As you can guess over the last couple years the topic of me not feeling desired came up frequently and this form of verbal courtship was a means to help with that. Now with the understanding that those are seemingly hollow words.... I just can't bear it. It's been rough. I realized that the foundation of my understanding of relationships is based on our 18 year relationship and that apparently a good chunk of it is based on wrong assumption, misunderstandings. I may not even know what being loved as a sexual being feels like because I don't even know if I ever have been. Save to say I am in a very bad spot right now and there's no light in sight.

 

I'll write about what she wrote a little later... currently a bit burned. But it was sweet which makes everything else all the more hard.

 

edit: I might write something about the entry after having a chat with her about sharing this at all. It feels quite private and not like something I can share without her consent and to what degree as well.

[Liara]

I'm sorry. I can easily imagine how it feels. You both didn't live the same relationship at all. I don't know what loved as a sexual being feels too so I understand what you feels.
That wil not help you but you are not alone...

[Eila]

Beautiful humans on this thread, I've learned a lot from reading your posts.

 

@cresting830, you and your wife have a lot of self-knowledge, communication and openness. And positive changes are happening for you in your relationship because of that. 

 

So your situation is very different to mine when I was in a relationship of 15 years with someone who I loved (love), when I gradually became aware of a change in my sexuality and also (again different from your situation) orientation. After much heartache and without doubt the hardest thing I've ever done, I decided to leave. It seemed unthinkable to stay and be inauthentic (in terms of sexual intimacy). Of course this is my story, which sounds very different to your wife's situation. 

 

But the thing about it is that it was 100% in the context of love (as everything you've said in this thread is) . We're still in contact, and are very good friends. He is happy and in a loving relationship, and I am happy too, free and growing in myself. Just to totally emphasise it again, I am not suggesting this is the right route for you but if you two ever feel that the alternative route of separating is something you might consider, it doesn't have to be the terrible rift that we sometimes imagine. 

 

 

[Eila]

Just realised I missed two whole pages of comments, so stuff I said is a bit confusing in the context how the thread has gone. Apologies and I'm just catching up now. 

[cresting830]

28 minutes ago, Eila said:

Just realised I missed two whole pages of comments, so stuff I said is a bit confusing in the context how the thread has gone. Apologies and I'm just catching up now. 

I was very confused but this is a gentle reminder what truly matters and where we started off and maybe recapture some of that. It has been hard to hold onto that initial burst of optimism and gentleness as time went on with little progress and plenty of roadblocks on my and her part. A mutual seperation has not been put on the table yet. Our life's have been intertwined for so long it's hard to imagine a life without her.

[Eila]

Thanks cresting for your understanding.

 

This thread is moving to read because it's all so relatable and human and difficult. You're streets ahead of me in communication and effort to find a way to stay together. I did none of that - just reflected a lot and then made a decision, I didn't even discuss it. So I'm no example and I definitely wouldn't behave the same way now. 

 

I really wish you all the luck in re-finding your mutual gentleness, and in finding a way. 

[cresting830]

1 hour ago, Eila said:

This thread is moving to read because it's all so relatable and human and difficult.

I absolutely understand. It's rough to deal with and you've moved past it. No need to open old wounds on my accord. I wish you all the very best and suggest not to read further beyond this point. Spoiler alert: it's just moody yapping.

 

I've dodged the opportunity to talk to my wife about sharing some of her thoughts that rose questions for myself... I'm sure that means that I subconsciously would decide not to share what was written, I'll get back on that later.

 

I've sat down and attempted to write some thoughts of my own that've crossed my mind recently. Since it has been over a month since our last talk a lot of stuff had time to fester and once I was done I looked at what I wrote and wasn't suprised to find, that a lot of it is just not helpfull... sure it expressed hurt but also a lot of anger and resentment.

 

It feels like all I do is whine. Like I'm going in circles over and over. Like I'm getting fed a little kindness a little progress and then am expected to be content with that for however long it takes for the next drop. I feel so wrongfully entitled to attention that fills my needs. I feel unloved even though she tells me how much she loves me. Her actions don't allign with how I would want to be loved (and this will most likely stay this way). I also noticed that I've pulled back a lot... I notice a lack of interest in communication. It's some maladaptive way of handling all of this. I can't tell her, that I don't want to talk about benign(to me) stuff when we haven't talked about stuff that I deeply care about in weeks... so I silently shut down and make things worse in the process by helping with the disconnect. I too am not seeking to talk because I don't want to pressure or stress her out.

I've also said before that I've been withholding intimacy that would fill her lovetank and I think that I'm still doing that. I know we said this wouldn't help... but it just seems so very unfair... it's childish of me and doesn't accomplish anything but make things worse. I am aware of that...truly. I am... just a little done at the moment and can't muster the energy to function on a level that she needs while putting on a smile.

 

This seems to be another one of those... thought vomits. I feel a little better though. I am going over my writing again and will check if some of it could be rephrased and used. I really am struggling with the whole "don't blame". I am not great at articulating all of this savely or in a way that she could savely take in.

[Liara]

1 hour ago, cresting830 said:

I absolutely understand. It's rough to deal with and you've moved past it. No need to open old wounds on my accord. I wish you all the very best and suggest not to read further beyond this point. Spoiler alert: it's just moody yapping.

 

I've dodged the opportunity to talk to my wife about sharing some of her thoughts that rose questions for myself... I'm sure that means that I subconsciously would decide not to share what was written, I'll get back on that later.

 

I've sat down and attempted to write some thoughts of my own that've crossed my mind recently. Since it has been over a month since our last talk a lot of stuff had time to fester and once I was done I looked at what I wrote and wasn't suprised to find, that a lot of it is just not helpfull... sure it expressed hurt but also a lot of anger and resentment.

 

It feels like all I do is whine. Like I'm going in circles over and over. Like I'm getting fed a little kindness a little progress and then am expected to be content with that for however long it takes for the next drop. I feel so wrongfully entitled to attention that fills my needs. I feel unloved even though she tells me how much she loves me. Her actions don't allign with how I would want to be loved (and this will most likely stay this way). I also noticed that I've pulled back a lot... I notice a lack of interest in communication. It's some maladaptive way of handling all of this. I can't tell her, that I don't want to talk about benign(to me) stuff when we haven't talked about stuff that I deeply care about in weeks... so I silently shut down and make things worse in the process by helping with the disconnect. I too am not seeking to talk because I don't want to pressure or stress her out.

I've also said before that I've been withholding intimacy that would fill her lovetank and I think that I'm still doing that. I know we said this wouldn't help... but it just seems so very unfair... it's childish of me and doesn't accomplish anything but make things worse. I am aware of that...truly. I am... just a little done at the moment and can't muster the energy to function on a level that she needs while putting on a smile.

 

This seems to be another one of those... thought vomits. I feel a little better though. I am going over my writing again and will check if some of it could be rephrased and used. I really am struggling with the whole "don't blame". I am not great at articulating all of this savely or in a way that she could savely take in.

What do you want? Beside "that my wife was not asexual", what do you really want? What is your goal?

[Windmills of My Mind]

4 hours ago, cresting830 said:

I can't tell her, that I don't want to talk about benign(to me) stuff when we haven't talked about stuff that I deeply care about in weeks... so I silently shut down and make things worse in the process by helping with the disconnect. I too am not seeking to talk because I don't want to pressure or stress her out.

Would it help if you schedule talks? It seems to me you are both aware that your relationship is currently sailing in rough weather. You can learn to express a need to talk without pressuring. She may still feel pressure but that is her feeling, her responsibility. You can learn to communicate your needs and wants in a way that is not threatening. Evading talks will not make things go away, let alone improve things.

 

Are you familiar with "non violent communication"? If not, it may help the two of you if you read a bit about that.

[Olallieberry]

I had a period like this. It lasted 8 months.

 

I was shut-down and didn't want to talk about anything and didn't want to be affectionate. What was happening was, we were stuck and I thought we weren't going to be able to stay together.

 

We had spent months trying stuff, talking about stuff, inventing stuff, crying over stuff, and saying No to stuff which wasn't working. We were out of things to try, out of things to talk about. And it wasn't going to work for me.

 

So instead of rushing straight to a lawyer, I shut down. I was avoiding what seemed like the inevitable.

 

It was a miserable eight months. I couldn't really tell whether she was even noticing it or not. For all I knew, she was fine with how everything was. She wasn't asking "why are you distant" or "can we spend some time together" or "are you OK" anything like that. So to me, it seemed one-sided. I was stuck because I wasn't OK with things, but I wasn't ready to get un-stuck either because of how disruptive and painful I feared it would be.

 

I literally waited until the pain of being stuck seemed greater than the pain of breaking up. That was when I asserted myself and spoke up for what I really wanted. I was completely convinced that I was going to be told "No, we aren't trying that and we aren't even talking about it" like I had been told months earlier, and I was completely convinced that the consequence was going to be that I couldn't stay married. I was ready for it, I was resigned to it.

 

That's what it took for me to get myself unstuck, and to stop withdrawing and disengaging and quietly doomspiraling.

 

Now, as it happens, the way it turned out wasn't the picture of doom. I have a whole thread about this entire process and about the subject in question. I don't want to name it here because I don't want to appear like I'm saying that the specific option which worked for us will work for you. But the thread is available if you care.

 

My point is that the shut-down is a shared experience, and it might mean that you already feel like you know how this is going to get resolved, and maybe that looks hella scary. It is completely OK to take your time, go slow, and don't rock the boat until you're damn good and ready to accept whatever outcome is due.

 

Well, in my case, the way it turned out was that by the time I found the brass to assert myself, my wife was OK with discussing the thing she had previously said No to. She had had a change of heart during those 8 months. I guess she wasn't going to say so, but, when I pressed the matter, I found that she was ready to take it seriously and to consider an option she had previously shot down.

 

So, there was progress on both sides during those 8 months. In my case, I recognized and accepted what the stakes were, and I became OK with the fact that the stakes were grim. On her side, she had found some flexibility. She didn't spend those 8 months just playing dumb or imagining that we didn't have a severe problem in our marriage. We went from many months of trying to work on stuff to several months of complete and total disengagement, and she noticed something was different. She didn't come and talk to me about it, but, she was effectively processing stuff.

 

Lucky us! It worked and we're now something like two years in to this new phase of our marriage, and it's working.

 

So yeah, I guess what I hope you take away from this is:

* It's OK to retreat. Not forever, but, if you need time to work up to an action you just don't have the energy to take today, then allow yourself that time.

* It's OK to not know. Maybe you need to retreat because you are stuck and don't know what you want/need to do. Take the time to figure it out.

* It's OK to do this on your own, without your spouse's participation. You're an individual. You are allowed to have a want, a need, a desire, a motivation which is not distorted by her input.

* Whatever your worst fear is, might not be the way it works out.

* Whatever your worst fear is, might still turn out some day to be better than being stuck.

[Olallieberry]

Something I came across from another thread I posted in a couple of years ago:

 

On 11/28/2023 at 2:45 PM, Olallieberry said:

Sometimes "silent time" is just a dead end, but sometimes it's the soil in which our determination germinates, takes root and grows. For me, it was a deliberate choice to go that way instead of trying to force something before it was ripe.

 

[cresting830]

4 hours ago, Liara said:

What do you want? Beside "that my wife was not asexual", what do you really want? What is your goal?

My goal is to take account of what we've build and how much of that is build on a fundamental misunderstanding. Tear down what needs to go and see whats left. Then add onto the things that we can work with and see where we go from there. As of right now I have done most of the mental heavy lifting and we need to figure out where the foundation is lacking on her end and if what we have in common is enough to rebuild. I've communicated plenty and now it's my turn to listen and take in what she uncovers. 

Endgoal for us is to see if we can make a mutually satisfactory amount of intimacy sexual and others doable and if we both can be happy with that.

I've shown her https://www.asexuality.org/?q=attitudes.html today and asked her where she would see herself and she aligned most with sex-favorable and sex-neutral so "Okay with or indifferent to moderate portrayals and discussion of sex in broader society, but willing to compromise within their own relationships" She said that she is very much sex favorable when it comes to me but does not feel positively about sexual stuff outside of our relationship.

 

 

1 hour ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

Are you familiar with "non violent communication"? If not, it may help the two of you if you read a bit about that.

I'm not familiar with the term but I've googled it quickly and have known about the concept. But a refresher is for sure in order (especially after our talke today). Reading about these things once or twice only takes you so far. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Olallieberry said:

* It's OK to retreat. Not forever, but, if you need time to work up to an action you just don't have the energy to take today, then allow yourself that time.

* It's OK to not know. Maybe you need to retreat because you are stuck and don't know what you want/need to do. Take the time to figure it out.

* It's OK to do this on your own, without your spouse's participation. You're an individual. You are allowed to have a want, a need, a desire, a motivation which is not distorted by her input.

* Whatever your worst fear is, might not be the way it works out.

* Whatever your worst fear is, might still turn out some day to be better than being stuck.

As always thank you for your input. I am currently pulling my hair out because I'm trying to figure some things out so this is a good reminder to maybe take a step back and take a breather. It truly did feel like my mind was just giving up completely at some point there. I've skimmed your thread a couple times and am happy that you two managed to reach an agreement (that is currently being revisited if I recall correctly) I might have to do a bit of a more thorough read later.

 

 

We've had another talk today and since it has been a while it was a rough one. I've kept what I said to the list of things that I came up with that would help us along but it was still a lot to navigate. She's very afraid to open up to her friends about her being ace/gray-ace. I asked if it was because that would make it to real to which she said yes. She in her words is still spiraling uncontrollably. She has the journal on her mind all day. Has trouble sleeping. Needs to listen to music or podcasts constantly to numb herself. I had no idea, she sometimes sleeps badly due to allergies and is always listening on her headphones. I don't want to downplay, but explain that I didn't see nothing out of the ordinary. This was such a shock that we hugged and cried for a while to process what was said. She feels and sees the disconnect but doesn't know what to do. Writing the journal takes a tremendous amount of effort and while she says that it definetely helps it is too hard to bear at times. She says she want's to look into if she might have a.d.d.

I've said that 5 weeks of not really talking about this did hurt tremendously and that I didn't know what to do or how to broach the subject.

I've re-explained that I'm currently not receptive of sexual remarks towards me... something about that just seem off? She said she understand that and the reasoning behind it as well. She still feels terrible that she has no drive for sex at all and used a metaphor of going to a party that you dread and dread and dread and want to get out off and then once you're there you're having a wonderfull time. My view that I communicated is that this is something that we will have to accept and also that I'm happy that she is having fun in the moment. (this is partially what she wrote about in her journal obviously tmi but it was a lot) but she was deeply distraught that she "could not give me what I needed" This is ultimately the biggest hurdle that I have to cross: making peace with what can be done and be content with that. So I got where her fear was coming from. I posed the question how her ideal situation would look like in regards to sex for us and she took that question into her journal. 

We've also talked about how her understanding of her being (gray)ace shifts a lot of the things she sees, one of her friends is on the hypersexual side and my wife has always been very confused by that because she could not relate to that and she felt like she was broken. She also loves reading and could not get into smut at all and she follows plenty of creatives online that besides their usual stuff talk about smut as well which she found weird. It's... a lot of things clicking into place and I've shared a few things I noticed as well.

 

I might have to edit this a little once I've processed a little more. Overall we parted with a couple more questions for the journal some mental todos for me and I'd like to say some more vigor and hopefullness. I seem to be pinballing between doom and bliss lately.