My wife thinks she might be ace. I have some questions.

[cresting830]

We still haven't talked about what she wrote and I've been ragging my brain for the last couple days on what even to say that would help us in any way. I can feel myself becoming short with her as to avoid showing my internal turmoil. All of this is a lot for her and right now feels like a time for grace and patience due to this... but I am struggling to uphold this due to our history of her not coming through on her word and procrastinating things that are important to us... or at least to me. It feels like some logical thinking circuit in my brain is just fried because it keeps ignoring outside circumstances... propably because those were used in the past to dodge conversations so it's some form of pattern recognition going haywire. Just struggling with a lot of resentment and a tank that is running on fumes with a leak that requires attending but doesn't.

Anyways I'm stumped on what to say, none of what I come up with seems constructive and to "me" centered.

[Liara]

You both miss intimacy but don’t see intimacy the same way and don’t expect the same thing from it. Am I right?

[cresting830]

2 hours ago, Liara said:

You both miss intimacy but don’t see intimacy the same way and don’t expect the same thing from it. Am I right?

I mean yeah basically that. She's been sick and we held our distance for a good while and she is missing the intimacy that fills her tank which is cuddling and kissing and our shenaigans and I'm missing that as well plus the sex. We're both on edge with the new development of her contemplating her sexuality and what it means for her and us and I'm giving her the space required but am also conflicted with a lot of her coping mechanisms blocking progress so it's a tough spot right now... not being able to touch base in a way that would fill her tank and at least fill mine a bit is really really rough.

It feels so much like I'm the problem, if I could just not want it that much it would be better. And I slowly start to feel my need dwindle and then anxiety kicks in because I'm bending myself into a shape that fits a mold that is unnatural to my core being. It's hard to not build resentment when one is doing that and the other is not communicating and presumably procrastinating and only dealing with these things when she feels that I'm on edge. I'm always on edge I just can't keep it in sometimes. But I gotta keep it in because otherwise it would just create more pressure. I'm spiraling in circles with no way to fix it myself. All I can do is be patient and wait.

[Liara]

1 hour ago, cresting830 said:

I mean yeah basically that. She's been sick and we held our distance for a good while and she is missing the intimacy that fills her tank which is cuddling and kissing and our shenaigans and I'm missing that as well plus the sex. We're both on edge with the new development of her contemplating her sexuality and what it means for her and us and I'm giving her the space required but am also conflicted with a lot of her coping mechanisms blocking progress so it's a tough spot right now... not being able to touch base in a way that would fill her tank and at least fill mine a bit is really really rough.

It feels so much like I'm the problem, if I could just not want it that much it would be better. And I slowly start to feel my need dwindle and then anxiety kicks in because I'm bending myself into a shape that fits a mold that is unnatural to my core being. It's hard to not build resentment when one is doing that and the other is not communicating and presumably procrastinating and only dealing with these things when she feels that I'm on edge. I'm always on edge I just can't keep it in sometimes. But I gotta keep it in because otherwise it would just create more pressure. I'm spiraling in circles with no way to fix it myself. All I can do is be patient and wait.

Oh, I totally get it. Easyr to feel guilt when you are the one never satisfied. It would be so good to simply not having these needs/desires for more. To be able to feel satisfied with some touchs and nothing more.
But that's not your fault. You are what you are. Like her. And for both of you it's difficult to find the good balance, to understand what the other partner needs...

[blaigorn]

7 hours ago, cresting830 said:

It feels so much like I'm the problem, if I could just not want it that much it would be better. And I slowly start to feel my need dwindle and then anxiety kicks in because I'm bending myself into a shape that fits a mold that is unnatural to my core being. It's hard to not build resentment when one is doing that and the other is not communicating and presumably procrastinating and only dealing with these things when she feels that I'm on edge. I'm always on edge I just can't keep it in sometimes. But I gotta keep it in because otherwise it would just create more pressure. I'm spiraling in circles with no way to fix it myself. All I can do is be patient and wait.

@cresting830 based on your last posts I think it's possible you (and maybe your wife too) are truly starting to accept your incompatibility and grieving your relationship as you thought it was. It took me more than a year after my wife found out she was ace to get to a stage similar to yours. I remember how angry, sad and then apathetic I became. I even had self destructive thoughts of hormonal castration, to get me to change a fundamental part of who I am, if it meant I was able to make things work. It led me deeper into a depression, which I'm still recovering from. That was the time I started posting on AVEN, I was truly lost.

 

I think the major thing that kept me going was honest communication with my wife. I learned a lot about asexuality and allo/ace dynamics. I learned to gain a lot of empathy towards my wife by looking at other asexuals experiences and discussing them with her to see what she identified with. We talked about it more openly. It helped that she started accepting her asexuality too, but more importantly, it helped that she saw my sexual intimacy need as a real need and something important for me. Finally I started to see what are the points of relationship and intimacy with my wife that I value and started to invest on those. It helps me see why it's worth fighting for our relationship together.

 

Our situations are all different, so I don't claim to have a solution for you, or that my path is or will be the same as yours. But I want you to know that I never felt as alone, sad and hopeless, as when I was in a situation similar to what it seems you are passing. And you don't need to be alone, you have people that are willing to support you, a stranger, on your journey. I've also created a Discord group for more real-time, unstructured chats around allo/ace relationships. That small community has helped me immensely on this journey, and I've got a lot of support out of them. If you are interested: https://discord.gg/5HkwdJ2PZP

 

[cresting830]

16 hours ago, blaigorn said:

I remember how angry, sad and then apathetic

yeah pretty much that and I don't think I've ever been this depressed internally while putting up a mask that I'm not.

 

16 hours ago, blaigorn said:

I learned to gain a lot of empathy towards my wife by looking at other asexuals experiences and discussing them with her to see what she identified with. We talked about it more openly. It helped that she started accepting her asexuality too, but more importantly, it helped that she saw my sexual intimacy need as a real need and something important for me.

I've read quite a few stories of asexuals in mixed relationships and some are quite eye-opening to a very unique perspective that I can't quite grasp or understand but they sort of click in my head a little. The bulk of what I read are sex averse which my wife is not. Those that were sex favorable have made their best efforts to understand themselves and communicate their boundaries as they went about figuring it out along the way. What I mean to say is: Do you have any specific stories that helped you?

My wife also read a few posts her, not sure if she still is at it. But she mentioned that none of what she read feels right for her, to which I said that it might be helpfull to share her own perspective in a post of her own. Not sure if she did though.

 

16 hours ago, blaigorn said:

Finally I started to see what are the points of relationship and intimacy with my wife that I value and started to invest on those. It helps me see why it's worth fighting for our relationship together.

I am trying that so hard right now and we do make genuine efforts to refocus on intimacy that is low stakes to help and obviously a lot more quality time as well. Gotta keep telling myself that the sex is essential to me but also only one of many parts of this relationship and the rest is splendid. She has been my ride or die for 18 years now and there is nobody else that knows me like her...

But I am struggling to uphold hope and there are some dark defeatist thoughts roaming in the back of my mind and with lack of forward or upward momentum... it's hard to keep that line of thinking at bay... I haven't considered your drastic measures yet but I'm pretty sure that my uptake in porn consumption will have negative impacts in the long run as well.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply. This has been some food for thought and just being heard and understand that this isn't a unique experience does help a lot. Truly wish things would be easier but it is what it is.

[blaigorn]

35 minutes ago, cresting830 said:

Those that were sex favorable have made their best efforts to understand themselves and communicate their boundaries as they went about figuring it out along the way. What I mean to say is: Do you have any specific stories that helped you?

I think the stories that helped me were the ones about sex averse asexuals (notably the experiences from the ace from the Allo and Ace Podcast, as my wife identifies with a lot of that, including the mental effort it takes her to “force” herself to have sex). It also gave me and my wife a language to understand each other, and ourselves, better. 

 

I will say from a few testimonies about sex favorable aces on allo/ace relationships, it seems like they have the best chance at a satisfiable compromise. You haven’t reached it, but I hope you are able to find it!

 

I think you went through a period of crisis too (ie: your wife being sick) which made progress on your relationship stall, which is a natural, but frustrating thing. I would encourage you to keep confiding about your needs to your wife, making clear that you are not blaming her, instead searching for a solution together.

 

It’s interesting the way you describe it, her intimacy tank is filled with kisses and hugs, and that’s all she needs, while yours are filled with sex. Can you imagine if it was the opposite? If you had sex every day with your wife, but never hugged or kissed her, because sex fills up your emotional tank? Maybe sharing this extreme with her will make her see the importance of a compromise, of having your needs met.

 

Her being sex favorable, have you tried scheduling sex, whatever the frequency is good for both of you? That way she doesn’t have to initiate or think about it too much. 

[cresting830]

1 hour ago, blaigorn said:

It’s interesting the way you describe it, her intimacy tank is filled with kisses and hugs, and that’s all she needs, while yours are filled with sex. Can you imagine if it was the opposite? If you had sex every day with your wife, but never hugged or kissed her, because sex fills up your emotional tank? Maybe sharing this extreme with her will make her see the importance of a compromise, of having your needs met.

I see what you mean as to using it to explain my pov in a way she might click with. What I initially meant with the metaphor is more like her and my tank being filled with non-sexual intimacy but hers to the brim and mine not. And also for a little flavor on the metaphor add a leak on my tank that needs tending which represents anger, resentment and a lack of communication from her and me feeling like I can't be open without creating further damage.

 

1 hour ago, blaigorn said:

Her being sex favorable, have you tried scheduling sex, whatever the frequency is good for both of you? That way she doesn’t have to initiate or think about it too much. 

We were trying that again recently but it flat out stopped as soon as we set up a shedule due to outside circumstances and never picked up again and I just... can't bring myself to bring it up again. I feel silenced in my own needs. We've tried it before a few years back and man getting excited for the day just to see the hours run by and not having the guts to say anything because I don't want to add pressure. And when the clock strikes for bedtime I finally cave and say what we had sheduled for today and her response being "oh that was today?" just... truly strings. Made me feel so absolutely insignificant. She also mentioned that the shedule did not alleviate her stress in regards to sex. That was before the ace topic though were we assumed high libido low libido. On paper it was: me not overthinking interactions and getting hyped for our sheduled get together. And for her not to overthink as well and freely interact with me without having the fear of leading me on. She stated that she never felt like she was shying away from non sexual intimacy. I've heard some partners avoiding the touch of the sex-seeking partner and that wasn't the case for us. But the shedule was still an attempt to alleviate pressure and bringing predictability into the mix. Didn't work due to what I said earlier. We tried it again because with the changing circumstances we wanted to try again. Or at least so I thought.

 

It's all a bit... messy now. I'll try to read some post of sex averse aces thanks for the pointers.

[Liara]

What does she do to work on your relationship?

[cresting830]

2 hours ago, Liara said:

What does she do to work on your relationship?

short preface: She has been sick with the flu or a flu-like thing twice this year already so this generated a lot of time where the headspace for dealing with what I'm about to say just wasn't available. Does not stop my brain from being sad about that though.

 

Yeah... damn that's a good question but broad question. Just thinking about it makes anger and resentment rise up. We've tried plenty of things that didn't work out the thread has most if not all of it written down. I gotta stop myself from rambling on and on. I you mean what she's currently working on: We've worked out a few questions that she wrote in her notes app like... in early april that were meant as a baseline to figuring out what she wants/needs from this relationship. How she feels about her own sexuality and sex in general and what I can do to help her. She has written something about this:

  

On 5/6/2025 at 7:41 PM, cresting830 said:

What she wrote in short is that she dreadfully missed every bit of intimacy that we usually share but specifically not the absence of sex. Even when we got together everything surrounding the sex left a bigger impression. She simply doesn't need it. She struggles with the implications of that but is slowly getting to accept it.

So progress is there but it's a lot of her fighting against her own instinct to not face this headon. I'd rather not pressure her or pester her about this but it feels like everything she does to keep herself from not following through is failing. A reminder on her phone gets ignored. Nothing she does to remind herself can't be ignored. So she ignores it. Until she feels that I'm "off" and then she does something. This is incredibly tyring.

We've wanted to do weekly checkins. She mentioned that she dreads these since they are usually rough for her to handle and I totally get that. I really really REALLY need to figure out a way how to ballance the good and the bad equally but I also don't want to bullshit her. We haven't done this in weeks due to her being sick and me not putting the topic up again.

We've wanted to do weekly intimacy session where we took some time and just cuddled to see where it went. We've not done that either, also due to circumstances. But we got together recently and:

  

On 5/6/2025 at 7:41 PM, cresting830 said:

We managed to find some time for us recently and I can't help but realize that something has fundamentally changed about us... I am yearning for her but even when we're together the yearning doesn't go away. I had hoped that it would just be my high libido saying "again again" but I'm afraid that it's not as simple. Even if it were that simple it would be a bit to much for her but I digress. I think something subconsciously clicked into place that said "yeah this is just for you". And man I will need time to unpack that

 

tldr; Progress is very slow and every out that can be taken to not make progress seems to be taken until I apply some form of conscious/subconscious pressure.

[Liara]

Does she really understand how you feel? Have you told her how you feel, not because of her, not for making her guilty of that, but just because… do you explain how you feel?

[cresting830]

I thought I did. Honestly maneuvering all of this after so many years has left it's mark and I'm trying not to put guilt into the equation but who knows if it works. I usually overthink and work through what I want to say and how it could be interpted and be mindfull of everything I can think off. But that is what I can think off. Usually when we talk recently it becomes harder and harder to keep going because she gets defensive, defeatist and thinks of herself as the worst and the source for my unhappiness. So lately a lot of our conversations where I express what I feel lead to me managing her reaction and in turn being sort of unable to paint a full picture because a full picture to her would raise so many "this is close to the end" flags that me saying over and over that this is something we can figure out and me having no intention of leaving and reassuring her and reiterating and reminiscing about everything we've build together. All of this seems to calm her down but also really take out the kick of it. While I have no intention of leaving... all of this sort of hinges on us moving forward...

 

I rambled again. Sorry this topic has been eating me and my time away for quite some time. It seems like there's no end.

 

tldr; yes I've told her how I feel but have to do damage control afterwards that diminshes the stakes at hand presumably leading to limited progress.

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, cresting830 said:

Progress is very slow and every out that can be taken to not make progress seems to be taken until I apply some form of conscious/subconscious pressure

What a drag.

 

I mean, familiar, but what a drag.

 

It can't always be one person pressing for progress or even for just adherence to what the other person said they would want or be willing to do.

 

This doesn't have to be a blame game, but, even though this is familiar to me, if I hadn't seen it change and if I hadn't seen unprompted, unilateral efforts from my spouse, I couldn't abide that. It doesn't have to be a blame game like "see, you're not doing your side of it, why do you say you will?" but sometimes people say things they aren't capable of adhering to. It is not blamey to just say out loud to each other, "The truth is that that clearly isn't going to happen, so let's stop pretending that that's going to happen," and proceed from there.

 

It might also help to establish some stakes. If there's any chance at all that the other person is going to find it in theirself to move out of their comfort zone and dare to act, it might depend on them really understanding what the consequence of not doing so will be.

 

So what is that?

 

I'm not necessarily talking about breaking up, and I'm definitely not talking about making threats or enforcing any kind of compliance. I'm just talking about not hiding the consequences.

If the consequence is "I couldn't stay if I have a partner who keeps saying one thing and doing another," one can say so without making it a threat. Maybe as a hypothetical. If a consequence is, "I'm going to drop dead at a young age if I keep swallowing all of the difficulty in this relationship all by myself," maybe that will get someone's attention. If a consequence is, "my throat hurts all the time because I feel like I have to shut the hell up about all this all the time," maybe they will learn to listen better. If a consequence is, "I fantasize about getting out of this relationship all the time because I'm unseen and unheard," ask them if that's how they want you to be. If a consequence is, "I will spend more time resenting you than not resenting you," maybe they don't want that kind of relationship with you and will make an effort.

I'm not projecting any of those feelings on to you, they're all intended to just be examples of things someone could feel and what could result from them. Everything has a consequence - maybe brainstorm what yours are. Even if you don't express them as bluntly as I have, having them crystal clear in your own mind will bestow some noticeable, unmistakable sincerity and gravitas to whatever you do say out loud. 

I'm not talking about punishments or levers for manipulation, I'm just talking about making clear what the result of the situation is, in a way that the other person recognizes is true and is something which might elicit their own motivation without them being pressured into anything. Some consequences are about empathy, not about ultimatums.

 

So what are the stakes? Most of the ones I mentioned were just about how one will feel and (reading between the lines) what the resulting effect on the (otherwise intact) relationship will be. But there can be concrete ones, too: Do you already have separate bedrooms? Would you cease recognizing birthdays and anniversaries after excessive resentment? Might you withhold the touch and affection she says she wants, forever, because of not being able to bear it, yourself? Again, these are hyptheticals, brainstorms, I'm not projecting that any of these suit your specific needs.

 

This is ugly stuff to have to talk about. But it's an ugly situation. The only way out is sunlight. If you unilaterally hide this stuff, she might never unilaterally reveal anything new, herself.

 

I wouldn't have been able to tell someone all of this a few years ago. I learned it by moving through a very similar situation as yours. The good news for me was that my spouse was capable of hearing my side of it without taking it personally, getting triggered into defensiveness, or hearing something I wasn't saying and turning it into a drama fest. That's a major blessing and I recognize that not everyone has that kind of partner.

However, I also saw her work on those capabilities. Every time I got so frustrated with what I thought looked like an utter lack of progress or effort, she surprised me with progress and effort. There have been many rounds of this, but every time it happens it makes me feel better about everything. It has gotten to the point where it would actually be really surprising to me if things stalled like that again, with me feeling and expressing that we were stuck and she weren't doing anything to help us get unstuck.

 

I very much hope something like that can happen for you, too. Because "stuck" is worse than almost anything. Anything worse than "stuck" can actually be addressed - with action.

But "stuck" is just stuck - not bad enough to act, not good enough to deserve.

[Liara]

Maybe you don’t have to assure her you will not leave. Because… why would she change her comfortable situation if there is no consequence? I don’t talk about an ultimatum, of course. Just making her understand that your relationship hurts you and that her lack of work about it hurts you too. And that you can’t keep going like that forever.

[Olallieberry]

Agreed - don't ever promise to "make it work."

 

If that were a promise you could keep, it would already be working.

 

But by all means, reassure her that you want it to work, that you want to stay with her. Reassurance is good. But some promises are impossible.

 

I mean, I don't know. Maybe your relationship is such that you can promise to never leave. I still don't think you should. And you can't promise to be happy about it.

[blaigorn]

4 hours ago, cresting830 said:

I usually overthink and work through what I want to say and how it could be interpted and be mindfull of everything I can think off. But that is what I can think off. Usually when we talk recently it becomes harder and harder to keep going because she gets defensive, defeatist and thinks of herself as the worst and the source for my unhappiness. So lately a lot of our conversations where I express what I feel lead to me managing her reaction and in turn being sort of unable to paint a full picture because a full picture to her would raise so many "this is close to the end" flags that me saying over and over that this is something we can figure out and me having no intention of leaving and reassuring her and reiterating and reminiscing about everything we've build together. All of this seems to calm her down but also really take out the kick of it

Now this is interesting to me because I feel the absolute same. I anticipate every single thing my wife might be feeling, or how she might react to every thing I say. It feels like I’m constantly assessing and attuning to her state of mind, and then I feel what’s she’s feeling. If she’s sad I get sad, if she’s angry I get angry. It’s so difficult to express your own emotions that way. And you end up not communicating, which makes you not a part of the relationship.

 

That’s the number one thing my therapist identified as a thing I should absolutely work on. I’m not responsible for my wife’s feelings or how she reacts to what needs to be said. Easier said than done, since I’ve been doing this my whole life and have to do an effort to try and switch my behavior.

 

That doesn’t mean you should be blunt and not care about your loved ones feelings. One good thing about being like we are means that we can generally assess when it’s a good time to chat or not, for instance, delaying hard conversations because your wife was sick is totally the productive and right thing to do.

 

We should also try to not overwhelm them. A funny (or not so funny) story, after making an effort to share more with my wife (following my therapist advice), on one of the rare occasions we were trying to have sexual intimacy together I felt emboldened to tell her all the sexual things I’d like to explore with her. She froze and ruined the moment. Yep, definitely not the right moment and definitely too overwhelming. 1/10 do not recommend.

 

But we need to make ourselves and our needs an important part of the relationship.

 

 

[Olallieberry]

2 minutes ago, blaigorn said:

you end up not communicating, which makes you not a part of the relationship

Well, not a contributing part

 

But, well said. That is pithy and meaningful.

If someone is going to be checked out, it isn't going to be me.

 

Unless and until it is - at which point, I wouldn't be checked out, I'd just be out.

 

I mean, ideally. The truth is, once I spent months checked out and not contributing. Basically I had gotten told to not talk about the only thing I felt was left to talk about. So I really shut all the way down for several months.

 

By the time I couldn't abide it and checked in again, I was prepared to either talk about it anyway or bail out once and for all. She didn't know that, but, luckily my partner had gotten over a major obstacle and was prepared to talk about that thing.

 

My reaction was like, oh, were you ever going to say so? But I kept that to myself 🤣

[blaigorn]

11 hours ago, cresting830 said:

We've tried it before a few years back and man getting excited for the day just to see the hours run by and not having the guts to say anything because I don't want to add pressure. And when the clock strikes for bedtime I finally cave and say what we had sheduled for today and her response being "oh that was today?" just... truly strings. Made me feel so absolutely insignificant. She also mentioned that the shedule did not alleviate her stress in regards to sex

Based solely on this interaction, I would say she leans more into sex averse than sex favorable. My wife would react the same way, our last times of sexual intimacy together were almost “prescribed”.

 

One time we agreed to try and have intimacy (not necessarily sex) during two days we took off (our son in daycare) as suggested by our couples therapist. She procrastinated a lot, we spent a lot of time watching tv shows, having lunch out, and doing our own hobbies. I also had agreed to not initiate, so I didn’t comment anything, but felt hurt. Then on Monday the following week we also had the day off (for which we planned a lunch out) and had couple’s counseling. 10 minutes before it was time we left the house for lunch I told her I was going quickly to the post office. She asked me if I didn’t want to “go upstairs”. I couldn’t believe it, I think I suppressed a laugh and said: “no, I’m good”. Well, lunch went sour and the therapy appointment was the most awkward ever. I felt she only suggested it because she realized the therapist would ask about it.

 

Hopefully I illustrated how her brain makes her avoid having sex. I think this is a very strong signal that she is averse. Interestingly enough she selfs describe herself as sex neutral to sex favorable, which I don’t agree at all, but I feel she is absolutely the one that should be identifying herself.

[Olallieberry]

12 hours ago, cresting830 said:

when the clock strikes for bedtime I finally cave and say what we had sheduled for today and her response being "oh that was today?" just... truly strings. Made me feel so absolutely insignificant.

So, I get that this is something which happened a while ago and this isn't something the two of you are still "trying."

 

But the same kind of thing seems to be continuing to happen. You have mentioned a lot of different things she said she was going to put effort in to, which never happen for all sorts of different excuses.

 

Every single time that happens, you would be justified for having the same frustrated feelings and for feeling like she just isn't valuing, prioritizing or even recognizing your feelings.

 

It's not even about the sex at all, at a certain point.

 

I don't think she's going to change anything unless you dare to show her your vulnerability. It doesn't have to be blamey, just "this is how I feel about that." You do not have to go around acting like it doesn't fucking suck.
 

Show her those consequences. If your heart is breaking, don't keep it a secret.

[Liara]

@cresting830 @blaigorn let’s be honest : your wives don’t want to have sex. They tell you they are sex favorable because they think if they say sex averse, you will leave. They can be sex positive for the others but for themselves… not really. They don’t want sex. They don’t care about sex. They don’t need sex.
Maybe they are totally honest when they say they are sex favorable because they can’t accept the reality which can be a real threat for your relationship according to them.

ENM scares them a lot because they see that as a more threatening thing for your couple than sex. So they ask for compromise, to avoid ENM at any cost… but don’t want it. Because they don’t want sex.

 

But maybe they have to understand that the biggest threat for your relationship is their lack of work, their avoidance. They have to understand you have to work together and that’s not a fight between your difference of sexuality. They will never change and never want sex. That’s a fact. Nothing will change that. The only question is : how can we make this work, together?

[cresting830]

  

9 hours ago, blaigorn said:

That’s the number one thing my therapist identified as a thing I should absolutely work on. I’m not responsible for my wife’s feelings or how she reacts to what needs to be said. Easier said than done, since I’ve been doing this my whole life and have to do an effort to try and switch my behavior.

Oh yeah emotional monitoring. In my case it comes from living in a very emotionally disregulated household. You monitor your parent's behaviour and adjust accordingly. You sort of fill the spot where there is space and if there is none you take none. It's the "everyone else before me" mindset. Yeah I totally have to work on that as well.

 

9 hours ago, blaigorn said:

We should also try to not overwhelm them.

I absolutely get that. As one can see I tend to get rambly. It's my process of figuring out what is going on underneath the surface but this takes time and let me tell you when we speak it is a lot. Gotta keep to point and not to many of them. Would be a lot easier to do if we didn't have months between check-ins. But I can always check-in and I don't.

 

9 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

But the same kind of thing seems to be continuing to happen. You have mentioned a lot of different things she said she was going to put effort in to, which never happen for all sorts of different excuses.

 

I had not consciously connected that dot yet but yeah... you're right. There were a few times where she did put effort in and when it didn't lead to the expected result she got discouraged. There certainly where moments where she didn't communicate how much she was trying and when we talked about it I had to re-evaluate my expectations but this is besides the point. Details and all. In essence you're right this is a pattern of behaviour that didn't stop it just shifted.

 

55 minutes ago, Liara said:

your wives don’t want to have sex. They tell you they are sex favorable because they think if they say sex averse, you will leave.

Ouch but yeah might very well be that way. I understand her fear in regards to all of that but as you said as of right now it comes down to a lack of work, avoidance and honesty and vulnerability between both of us. I have my share in this and so does she. Yeah and this IS the biggest thing now that I'm thinking about it: at the turn of this year we've talked and I was tapped out, dejected, tired and just depressed and I told her that I can't keep spearheading and trying trying trying different things because I just can't and then we broached the ace/gray-ace thing and this is something that I've done my fair share of reading (gotta read some sex-averse perspectives later) and educating, readjusting (it's pretty much all written down in this thread) and hoped for her to take the reigns because in my eyes, plenty of roadblocks are our lack of understanding of her perspective and I can only do so much in helping there. So she sort of needs to hold the spear now and seems to be very unwilling/incapable to do so but doesn't communicate any of that.

 

I also just notice that I have a tendency to make excuses for the people that don't treat me right...

 

Thank you all as always for taking the time. This is a lot of food for thought that needs digesting and formulating.

Edited May 11 by cresting830
I wanted to quote another message

[blaigorn]

1 hour ago, Liara said:

@cresting830 @blaigorn let’s be honest : your wives don’t want to have sex. They tell you they are sex favorable because they think if they say sex averse, you will leave. They can be sex positive for the others but for themselves… not really. They don’t want sex. They don’t care about sex. They don’t need sex.
Maybe they are totally honest when they say they are sex favorable because they can’t accept the reality which can be a real threat for your relationship according to them.

ENM scares them a lot because they see that as a more threatening thing for your couple than sex. So they ask for compromise, to avoid ENM at any cost… but don’t want it. Because they don’t want sex.

 

But maybe they have to understand that the biggest threat for your relationship is their lack of work, their avoidance. They have to understand you have to work together and that’s not a fight between your difference of sexuality. They will never change and never want sex. That’s a fact. Nothing will change that. The only question is : how can we make this work, together?

Damn @Liara bringing in the truth hammer 😅

 

Yeah, that’s my current understanding. I think it’s denial and resistance to what it means to our relationship. But I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, as she asked us to try a compromise. I think it could be unintentional stalling from her side, but I do want to try everything, and honestly a compromise is the safest, least disruptive thing we can try, before trying opening up or separating 

[Liara]

Sorry if I was too rude, I didn’t want to hurt anybody. 😥

Just sometimes we talk we talk and we forget the point : they don’t want sex.

[cresting830]

20 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

If the consequence is "I couldn't stay if I have a partner who keeps saying one thing and doing another," one can say so without making it a threat. Maybe as a hypothetical. If a consequence is, "I'm going to drop dead at a young age if I keep swallowing all of the difficulty in this relationship all by myself," maybe that will get someone's attention. If a consequence is, "my throat hurts all the time because I feel like I have to shut the hell up about all this all the time," maybe they will learn to listen better. If a consequence is, "I fantasize about getting out of this relationship all the time because I'm unseen and unheard," ask them if that's how they want you to be. If a consequence is, "I will spend more time resenting you than not resenting you," maybe they don't want that kind of relationship with you and will make an effort.

All of those ring true in my mind. Especially the last two are scenarios I fear. 

 

20 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

Do you already have separate bedrooms? Would you cease recognizing birthdays and anniversaries after excessive resentment? Might you withhold the touch and affection she says she wants, forever, because of not being able to bear it, yourself?

I can't fathom going for the first two steps yet but I have been witholding affection a few times. I think me being short and somewhat avoidant is part of that. Filling her tank comes easy to me and I recognise that for her to fill mine isn't so it's unequal effort. But it seems that with her needs being met she's fine and that about it. So yeah I have been witholding some things to maybe make her see what it feels like. I don't like that at all about myself but a part of me feels that this might be needed.

 

Sorry for spamming I'm currently thinking if I should gather some thoughts and prepare for a talk or maybe sit down and write something out so it's on point, thought out and re-readable. But I think it would loose something in transit. Some raweness of it all. Some intent might come of to harsh or not hard enough in writing.

 

  

4 hours ago, Liara said:

Sorry if I was too rude, I didn’t want to hurt anybody. 😥

Just sometimes we talk we talk and we forget the point : they don’t want sex.

You're fine. If anything it's a good reminder that maybe she and I myself are running away from some hard truths.

Edited May 11 by cresting830
I wanted to quote another message

[blaigorn]

50 minutes ago, cresting830 said:

So yeah I have been witholding some things to maybe make her see what it feels like. I don't like that at all about myself but a part of me feels that this might be needed.

Been there. She didn’t really notice other than complaining that “we didn’t have time to ourselves anymore”. I don’t think doing that is productive at all, I think you know that already. Saying: “what would you feel if we stopped hugging and kissing” might provoke more reaction than you withholding it intentionally 

[Olallieberry]

6 hours ago, blaigorn said:

Saying: “what would you feel if we stopped hugging and kissing” might provoke more reaction than you withholding it intentionally 

Especially if there's a reason behind it which isn't just "see how you like it."

 

I had a period where I couldn't bring myself to do it, not because of trying to "get" her, but because I couldn't bring myself to do it. I wasn't feeling it, I would (at the time) have resented it, I would have been forced face to face with the gulf between what I wanted and what I was getting/having, and I wanted to shut that out of my awareness so I avoided that activity. It wasn't at all about "showing her," iot was about protecting myself.

 

A conversation like "this is what I feel like I'm having to do to protect myself" is very different from "what if I just cut you off from the affection you want."

[blaigorn]

42 minutes ago, Olallieberry said:

A conversation like "this is what I feel like I'm having to do to protect myself" is very different from "what if I just cut you off from the affection you want."

Yes, I should have clarified, the intention is not to use it as a threat, at that point you are just doing it out of resentment, anger and malicious intent, which is definitely not the way to be productive about it.

My intention was to explain in an analogy she can understand how the lack of sex affects you.

[Olallieberry]

14 minutes ago, blaigorn said:

Yes, I should have clarified, the intention is not to use it as a threat, at that point you are just doing it out of resentment, anger and malicious intent, which is definitely not the way to be productive about it.

My intention was to explain in an analogy she can understand how the lack of sex affects you.

Yep, I got that. I was clarifying as a contrast to what @cresting830 had previously said about doing it "to make her see what it feels like."

 

It IS ok to talk about this and ask a question like that. It could be very fruitful. But yeah, maybe don't talk about the vindictive motivation and instead make it about something constructive and authentic.

[cresting830]

16 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

I had a period where I couldn't bring myself to do it, not because of trying to "get" her, but because I couldn't bring myself to do it. I wasn't feeling it, I would (at the time) have resented it, I would have been forced face to face with the gulf between what I wanted and what I was getting/having, and I wanted to shut that out of my awareness so I avoided that activity. It wasn't at all about "showing her," iot was about protecting myself.

Yeah that's it. I mentioned before that when we finally got together something was off and I couldn't put my finger on it. I think it was something like that. Man this is exactly the sort of wiseness that I was looking for here. This is so good.

 

 

14 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

It IS ok to talk about this and ask a question like that. It could be very fruitful. But yeah, maybe don't talk about the vindictive motivation and instead make it about something constructive and authentic.

My kneejerk response to that is that even a vindictive motivation can be authentic. It's for sure not constructive but I think it can be authentic. Depends... What is your definition of authentic? Living outwards as you are inwards?

[blaigorn]

1 hour ago, cresting830 said:

My kneejerk response to that is that even a vindictive motivation can be authentic. It's for sure not constructive but I think it can be authentic. Depends... What is your definition of authentic? Living outwards as you are inwards?

Yes, absolutely! That's a perfectly valid response to have. You've been hurt so much. "Let her see how much it hurts". It's still not the most productive one. You could tell her how much you are feeling hurt. How much her rejection, her lack of action, and her inability to follow-through is making you feel like your needs don't matter. That you even contemplated (or actually did) purposely withholding affection as you felt resentment. You can say how horrible that made you feel. You can preface that by saying you need to have a heart-to-heart with her, and it's not your intention to make her feel bad, but you need to share how you feel.

 

In practice I know how difficult this is. You might just have a tendency to shut down when you are hurt. I know I do. Again, through therapy I'm trying to break away from habits that accompanied me my whole life. Breaking away from behaviors that define me. You are probably trying to do the same. It's a very brave thing, and you won't be always able to do it. Strive for doing it a bit more each time. You deserve to make your needs, and how they are affecting you, be known to the person that loves and knows you more than anyone else. She deserves it too.