Don't know what to do

[So frustrating]

I'm here because I'm madly in love with an asexual man and we've been together over five years. I did not realise he was asexual until a couple of years ago, through googling things like why doesn't my boyfriend want to have more sex with me. Sex has never been particularly great with him, even at the start when it was a few times a month. It always seemed perfunctionary, and although he would orgasm sometimes, it seemed like hard work. Fast forward to now and it's been ten months since we last had sex. I stopped trying to initiate things a few years ago, and the sex just got less and less. He is very happy I no longer try to initiate it. 

In every way apart from in bed he is my perfect match. He is my best friend and I have never been this happy in a relationship. But..... It's breaking my heart because not having sex is starting to make me feel dead inside, or like I've just stopped living. For the first time since we met, I've noticed another man. He is much younger than me and a very sexy guy. I met him at swimming and so I have found it very difficult not to notice how hot he is in his tight little trunks. He's recently made it clear he is interested too. And if I was single I would have absolutely jumped at the chance. In previous relationships with sexual men I have still found it very difficult to "keep it in my pants" as when I was younger I had a voracious sexual appetite. 

I feel gut wrenching agony at the moment as this beautiful young man is so so tempting, but I know if I even touched him my partner would see it in my face and he'd guess, and if that didn't happen the unbearable guilt would make things impossible. 

I have to either accept I will either never sex again, or at best only have it rarely. But I miss sex so much, and I am so afraid that I will not be able to live without it, and in doing so lose the best man I have ever known. I know I respect him and love him far too much to be unfaithful, and so if I decided I cannot live without sex I will just have to leave. Even though it would break my heart to lose him. 

[Liara]

Have you thought about opening your relationship?

[So frustrating]

Hi Liara

I certainly have, and have raised the idea with my bf. He is absolutely against it, even though I have tried to explain that apart from the three times I've been in love in my life (of which he is the latest and greatest) I find it very easy to have sex without having to involve emotions. I think he is nonetheless scared I would fall for someone else. 

[Liara]

Do your partner know how painful it is for you? Does he care?

[So frustrating]

I think so. I'm thinking I need to bring it up again, try to get across how difficult it is for me. It would make me very happy if he would give me his blessing to scratch the itch when I need to. I can't ever see me meeting anyone else who I feel so at home with. And he's a very beautiful man himself, I still have such a strong desire for him. It hurts so much that he doesn't feel the same way. 

[Liara]

There are only 4 options for us : compromise - celibate - open relationship - break up.

If you already are suffering after 5 years, believe me, it will only be worse with time. Maybe you will resent him, or hate yourself more and more. You will lose yourself in a relationship which can’t make you happy. Do you think you will be able to keep going for 10 more years? 20? The more time will pass, the more difficult it will be.

I don’t tell you to break up, not my role. Just… don’t think you HAVE to stay. I’m in a 25 years long sexless relationship, I can tell you the pain never disappears…

[So frustrating]

You are so right, those are the only options. And as I cannot have sex with the man I love, the only one that really appeals to me is opening up the relationship. I have to decide in my own mind where I stand, and have a difficult conversation. 

[Liara]

And i’m really sorry for that…

[Windmills of My Mind]

He will not step up, that much is clear. Noone can force him to do so, it goes against his nature and that is OK and valid.

 

It sounds to me like you cannot accept going celibate for the rest of your life. That goes against your nature. Which is also OK and valid.

 

Both of you are aware of who you are on the sexual-asexual spectrum. Neither of you is to blame. Yet the fundamental incompatibility remains.

 

If that is a correct assessment of your situation (I cannot be sure, you can) then this leaves the two of you a choice between the remaining two options: open up or separate.

 

Now you may think it is up to you and you alone to make this choice. That can cause feelings of guilt and in the future possibly a gradually rising feeling of resentment towards your partner. It may feel to you like he has taken your sexuality away from you. He has denied you an essential fulfillment in your life. That is a dark and bad place to end up. Members who have been in a sexless relationship for several decades can confirm. I recommend you don't go there. With time it hurts more yet at the same time it becomes more difficult to find courage to make change happen.

 

It may help to become aware it is not necessarily you who has to make a hard choice. Your body, your life. Monogamy is not a right. It is a gift that is yours to grant. Or reclaim. You have the freedom to chose Mr Tight Swim Pants or anyone else to be part of your life for a shorter or longer prior of time. The difficult decision is then your partners' to make. Not yours. If he can do nothing else but attempt to deny you to fulfill a fundamental need of yours, then he can be the one to make the hard choices. Don't accept if he tries to make you feel guilty or selfish over such a superficial carnal need to risk a relationship over. If that is the case, it goes to show that 1: apparently it is not so superficial after all and 2: isn't it selfish from his side to deny you to fulfill a need which is essential and fundamental to who you are?

 

It sounds like there is a lot of love between you two. Use that to your advantage. I hope you can communicate frankly and with complete honesty. Read up on nonviolent communication. Then start talking. And keep talking.

 

Make it clear what the stakes are. It may very well be the case that the awareness that this may be the deal breaker is the only way to put wheels in motion. Just having the courage to make the radical choice of separating and showing you have that courage, that may very well be the only thing that can save your relationship. You may need to show that you have the courage to go. Having that fact out in the open on the table may be the only path that in the end might work out in a change that can make you stay.

 

I wish you courage and love.

 

 

[So frustrating]

Thank you, made me quite tearful to read but I know you are right. Due to the winter break I won't be seeing Mr tight swim pants for a while so time to focus on my relationship (with a mind unbefuddled by lust and more able to think clearly) and if I can work with my beloved to save it together. I very much hope we can. 

[uhtred]

@Liara is right.  You just have the 4 options, and open is already ruled out. Sounds like compromise won't work either. 

 

I've spend decades in a marriage to an asexual woman,  hoping things would get better.  They didn't, and its very unlikely they will get better for you.   Don't do what I did.  

 

I know the options are all bad but they really are all you have - and time won't improve things.  

 

Based on what you are saying, I think you should break up.  You are attracted to other people and some day you will give in to that attraction - and that will probably end up ending your relationship anyway, just in a messier way. 

 

There is nothing wrong with your wanting a relationship with an active passionate sex life.

[Olallieberry]

10 hours ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

Make it clear what the stakes are

I second this.

@so frustrating

It’s not easy to make clear that the stakes may very well be that the relationship can’t survive, without making it sound manipulative, like an ultimatum to get what you want.

 

But it’s worth it to try.

 

If he believes your sincerity about “I don’t want to leave but I may not be able to stay,” that’s worth a lot, in terms of working together to find a solution.

 

If he won’t work on it at all and if he were to treat you like you have a problem and he doesn’t, and makes the whole thing your business to cope or not, that would be a deal breaker for me, regardless of the sex. Just speaking for myself.

 

Change will take time, and the effort of two people. Be patient but not inert. Being stuck is, to me, just about the worst, short of active abuse.

[So frustrating]

Thank you for the replies, they are really helpful. I really want to try floating the compromise or open options again, with the "I really want to stay but I may not be able to". Thinking of writing him a letter so I get to say all the things I need to and I won't have to watch him squirm as I mention sex! Something along the lines of "we really need to open up a good dialogue about what compromise you may be able to feel genuinely comfortable with, and if we can't find one, perhaps you need to let me have this essential need served elsewhere. He's knows I am still best friends with my ex, and he knows I still love him (but in a different way). My ex gives me two things my current partner cannot - he is able to offer me Co parenting with our daughter, and I can "nerd out" with him in a way I can't with anyone else. My beloved is very very smart, but his eyes glaze over if I want to discuss philosophy, the origin and true nature of consciousness, or the bizarre world of the quantum. My beloved is at the point where he is delighted my ex is around to fulfil these needs for me. I need to try and get him to see sex in the same light. 

And if my beloved was prepared to compromise, it probably wouldn't even have to be sex or sexual acts. Just greater physical intamacy would give me a huge part of what I am missing. 

[So frustrating]

Here is the first draft of my letter to my partner (warning of some tmi, not too bad though) , if anyone has advice it would be greatfully received - 

To my love

This is a difficult letter to write and i imagine it will be difficult to read as well. I hope you will read it all and really take time to consider it. I write it because I love you, and because I have never been so happy as I have been since I met you. I want to you to be my best friend and lifes partner right up until the end. But things have become so difficult for me and I am so afraid that if something doesn't change i risk growing to resent you to the point where i have no choice but to leave.

 

I know you hate talking about sex, so this is the reason for writing as I am hoping it will be slightly easier for you. Since we have met, and most particularly in the last two years i have tried so hard to give you space from feeling pressurised about sex, in the hope that you would feel more comfortable with me. I thought that even if me having less sex was the result of me no longer coming on to you, I would cope as you would hopefully feel happier with me and more comfortable. I did not realise it would lead to only having sex three or four times in those two years. And I certainly had not imagined that i would be in the situation of having gone nearly a year without it. Where we are now is that i am now celibate to all intents and purposes. And I feel as though a part of me has died, or that I am just not living. Neerja said it of her relationship but for different reasons -i dont want to die before I am actually dead. I have needs too, and I feel that by not having sex, and never talking about it, those needs are treated as totally unimportant in the context of our relationship. I feel like an important vital part of myself that used to make me feel so alive and connected to my body is dying, and it makes me feel so low and broken inside. I also feel, rightly or wrongly, that i am sexually repulsive to the man i adore. I try to tell myself that its not me, its just about how you are naturally and it doesn't mean you dont love me or think of me as a good looking woman you feel proud to have on your arm. But you don't even say nice stuff like that to me, so it is hard to feel anything other than repulsive to you and that is overwhelmingly difficult for me.

This may be wrong, but I feel like you are even repulsed by my attempts to hold you or be close to you. Let alone the idea of having sex with me or touching me sexually. And I know you only very rarely feel desire, but please try to imagine how desperately lonely and rejected it makes me feel that the man i love more than anything basically does not want to be my lover.

I have tried to read widely about asexuality in an effort to understand you better and still feel like we are in a romantic relationship without almost any kind of physical intimacy. I have even posted on an asexual forum asking for advice. They have made it clear to me that there are only four options. 1. Leave. I dont want to do this. I cannot picture my life without my best friend and confidant. It would absolutely break my heart. 2. Ignore my own feelings and needs and just strangle them into submission and live a half life, feeling sad and lonely and deviod of touch. I really dont want to do this either. Yes, if I have to, i will, but I am terrified it will lead to the inevitable demise of us anyway, because I just dont feel like me anymore. 3.comprimise. We find a way (and it doesn't have to include sex or sexual acts) that is kind of an acceptable in between for us both. I dont know what that would look like. Mostly because it needs to come from you. Please spend some time thinking about this one, as I do think its the best option and its what I want the most.

 

This option deserves a paragraph of its own. If we find a compromise, it needs to be something that you are genuinely happy to do because you want to do something for me, and that in itself will hopefully be enough to make you want to do it. I know you might not enjoy it like i would, but I need to not feel like it is a chore for you. I have spoken to you many times about needing to be touched more, but sadly it doesn't happen. For this option to work, something will actually have to change. Here are some suggestions i could come up with, you may have some of your own. On the sexual end -maybe sometimes you would be happy to give me pleasure with your hand or tongue? Or let us just lie together, naked and touching (or I'd be happy just to touch you) and if something happens, great, otherwise the touching and intimacy would be lovely. Perhaps you would just like a blow job? Even if it didn't get me off, I would really enjoy doing it to you. Maybe we could have a regular naked massage, each month or something. With a nice naked cuddle after. Or we could shower together, or bathe each other. Again, it doesn't have to result in sex or sex acts. Some cuddles and touching initiated by you would certainly be a great place to start. Being cuddled to sleep again, especially if naked. Anything that makes me feel more like I am in an actual romantic relationship, something more than a dear and treasured friendship. And if the thought of all this feels repulsive and unacceptable to you, perhaps we need to consider option four.

 

4. We open up the relationship. This is an option that a lot of people in sexual/asexual relationships do, and it can really work if well thought out and considered. I do think this could work for us if you really find you do not want to/cannot face being sexual or more intimate with me. It is not unusual for it to be impossible for us to get all our needs met by one person. Jason would be an example, because he can co parent with me and "nerd out" with me. You cant meet these needs, and you are happy that Jason fulfils this need for me (including when he is happy to go on walks with me). You also know i still have a strong emotional connection with him. I have not been attracted to him for a very long time, and I think knowing that is what helps you be ok about our friendship. In the full knowledge i would never go behind your back, i wonder if you could consider allowing me to get my physical needs met elsewhere? If i cant have you sexually, and it will always be you that I want above all others, perhaps i can just get sex elsewhere? As another sexual in a relationship with an asexual put it "i have sex with others not because I dont love my wife, but because I DO love her." if you decide to go with this option, i am happy for it to be under any rules or parameters at all that make you feel comfortable enough to accept it. 

 

Please really take time to think about what i have said. I hope that we can find a way that works well enough for us both to feel as though as our needs are being met, and I hope that we can really talk about this properly and not just sweep it under the carpet. I love you with all my heart and i hope you know that xxxxxxx

[daraddishman]

One of the things I am finding is that ENM itself covers a wide range of sexual expression. It ranges from casual one offs to regular lover to polyamorous relationships (thruples for example).

 

Sorting out what your range of tolerance is will be a big part of opening a relationship up. Once you have a better idea of what you are looking for and what you need, you can then come to the discussion with space to give and take.

 

It can also be the case that your partner doesn't fully understand their asexuality and if they are aromantic, and they have preconceived notions on how they need to behave around sex.

 

For example, in my current situation this is very much the case - it has taken a year for my partner to understand themselves enough that they aren't treating sex as a duty or obligation. Or using sex as a tool to manage my emotional/sexual health with compromise sex based on timing they controlled based on my mood and their willingness to do something they don't want to do. This led to a whole pile of resentment on both sides, and was a total waste of 10+ years of our lives and relationship. So if your partner is operating with a pile of cultural or personal obligations around sex, those discussions have to happen before ENM can even enter the picture.

 

I know sex has been off the table unwillingly for almost a year for you, but one thing that really can help for your asexual partner is to formally take sex off the table. I did this, and the change was drastic and instant. The tension plummeted on discussing sex, on other forms of physical touch, hugs, kisses, conversations about our needs and what our sexuality is like. For my partner a hug felt like an obligation leading towards sex, so they pulled back on all physical contact. For me, because touch and sex were so rare, I would react sexually to casual touch, reinforcing a negative pattern. We are currently short term celibate (with a timeline) while we sort out ourselves and start therapy as a couple on what we can do.

 

 

[So frustrating]

Thank you so much for your post, it is really appreciated and will help me to make the letter to my partner (which I have not yet had the guts to send) sound more sensitive and loving. I am not sure what enf means, but for me I just desperately miss being touched. Maybe if my man and I do sex is off the table for six months to a year, the non sexual touching will get to the point where it is enough for me, or after that has elapsed things will get a little better, and I won't be waiting another year for him to make love to me🤞. If we end up deciding to open up, I would be happy with any outside sex he is comfortable with. I would be happy to pay for it, take a lover or have a one off. I am hoping to work up the courage at the weekend, after  the darts is over. 

[Philip027]

ENM = ethical non-monogamy.  It's basically what the outside world would generally view as "cheating", except that it isn't, because it is an arrangement that is discussed and agreed to among all parties involved, so there isn't anything going on on the side that a partner/spouse doesn't know about, and the "affair" partner also understands that a relationship already exists and is intended to continue, so there isn't any sort of "homewrecking" going on either.  Everyone is on board and there is no sneaky business.

 

You do have to suss out whether a partner truly is on board, or is just initially saying they are out of desperation to keep the relationship going.  Because if it's the latter, it tends to become evident before long, and it doesn't tend to end happily.

[So frustrating]

2 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

ENM = ethical non-monogamy.  It's basically what the outside world would generally view as "cheating", except that it isn't, because it is an arrangement that is discussed and agreed to among all parties involved, so there isn't anything going on on the side that a partner/spouse doesn't know about, and the "affair" partner also understands that a relationship already exists and is intended to continue, so there isn't any sort of "homewrecking" going on either.  Everyone is on board and there is no sneaky business.

Thanks I appreciate that

[daraddishman]

It is a wild world of TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) out there. The Urban Dictionary is going to become your BFF. 😆

[So frustrating]

🤣

Spoiler

 

 

[Olallieberry]

13 hours ago, So frustrating said:

Maybe if my man and I do sex is off the table for six months to a year, the non sexual touching will get to the point where it is enough for me, or after that has elapsed things will get a little better

Speaking from experience: This works.

 

My wife and I got the idea from Emily Nagoski's book, Come As You Are, which is about helping people in relationships where there's a mis-match of sexual desire. Our relationship was fraught with unspoken assumptions and fears about what touch and closeness meant, and about expectations which could arise if we were to touch or be close.

 

So for years we didn't touch and weren't close. She wouldn't touch or get close because she feared I'd make it sexual, and I wouldn't touch or get close because I feared she'd reject me whether my intentions were sexual or not.

 

Explicitly agreeing to take sex off the table cleared all that away and we re-discovered how safe and how positive and how critical touch and closeness are, for us.

 

I hope you'll find that it works this well for you too, and I recommend the book. It mostly assumes that both partners are sexual but one wants it more than the other, but it also includes the situation where one person is asexual and it doesn't presume that "having sex" is the end goal for all couples. It's about helping people make the sexuality mismatch not be a problem which fucks up the rest of the relationship.

[So frustrating]

I gave him the letter today, all he said was I read your letter, I haven't decided what I want to about it. I said that's fine and I'm happy to talk whenever he is. Fingers crossed 🤞 

[Olallieberry]

On 12/26/2024 at 6:28 AM, So frustrating said:

As another sexual in a relationship with an asexual put it "i have sex with others not because I dont love my wife, but because I DO love her."

This is a brave thing to say to him. I hope it helps, along with everything else you wrote to him.

 

[So frustrating]

Thank you. He certainly doesn't seem cross, just thoughtful. I suspect he is considering whether or not he would be comfortable with either the compromise option or the open relationship option. 

[So frustrating]

Still waiting aaargh. Patience is a virtue

[Olallieberry]

1 hour ago, So frustrating said:

Patience is a virtue

It really is. Don't wait forever, or, an unreasonably long time, but, unless there's a real reason to rush it, give him the time and space he needs to process this and show you how he'll respond.

 

I spent most of 2023 waiting, and in the end I got a lot of what I wanted, by just letting her process and think about things and by just procrastinating what I thought was going to be ... the end, basically. It wasn't easy for me and I was convinced nothing was going to go my way, but, what happened when I couldn't wait any longer and pressed the matter was a pleasant surprise.

 

So, it's possible he won't show you any response at all without a prompt, but, I think it might be best not to prompt him to respond until it's clear whether he'll do so on his own or not.

 

I don't know. I think you've read my story and if so you know that for me I let it lie until I was prepared for the absolute worst and convinced that that was what I was going to get, but, couldn't abide the alternative any longer. Maybe you don't have to let it go that long  but yeah, maybe there's no rush right now, either. Up to you!

[So frustrating]

Hi 

 

Thank you so much for your post :). I have been reading your story but I don't think I've yet got to the end. I pop on and read stuff from the site whenever I get a minute to myself. I am pleased to hear that it sounds like there has been a fairly happy ending? I'm definitely not in a rush, just glad I've finally said what I've wanted to for months. I have already noticed that he seems a bit more cuddly, and it's surprising how just that lifts my spirits and makes me feel closer to him

[Olallieberry]

7 minutes ago, So frustrating said:

I am pleased to hear that it sounds like there has been a fairly happy ending?

I'm very happy there has been major progress. It's still changing - the "end" hasn't come yet! I keep the thread updated as things change.

 

In short: I now have an extramarital pass, for about the last fifteen months. But only with men - she's not OK with me seeing women, and I'm not OK with that. But we're working on it, she wants to be OK with it but has some work to do before she'll feel OK with agreeing to that.

[So frustrating]

That's brilliant :). I too would accept a woman only thing. I am practically heterosexual but I still think women are lovely, and it would be such a boon just to be able to be touched again. Has it helped? 

[Olallieberry]

7 hours ago, So frustrating said:

That's brilliant :). I too would accept a woman only thing. I am practically heterosexual but I still think women are lovely, and it would be such a boon just to be able to be touched again. Has it helped? 

I'm not looking for woman-only, I'm looking for not-only-men. I'm male and bisexual and right now the present agreement is "only men."

 

It has helped but it won't be enough for me if "only men, no women" remains a boundary for her.

 

We haven't even talked about trans men. Of course transmen are men, but I don't expect my wife to just automatically feel like it isn't somehow "moving the goalposts" if I got with a man with a vagina. We haven't talked about transwomen or other genders either, but it's likely that any or all of these will come up someday too, so, really, "all genders and gender identities" is what I would like to agree on. Nothing else makes sense - this can't be renegotiated every time I want to date someone with a different gender identity.