Letting go of anger and resentment

[Liara]

And don’t forget she can change her mind and feel that she doesn’t want that anymore. She really has to listen to herself and to not force herself if she doesn’t feel it.

[Olallieberry]

12 hours ago, uhtred said:

Sex with someone who doesn't desire it feels like buying services from a sex worker

I haven't done this but I feel like even that would be less unappealing than being with someone who's just enduring it for reasons which are non-commercial but are also contrary to desire.

 

9 hours ago, PonderingOnTheNet said:

I think she's floated the idea of scheduled sex.  It comes down to how to interpret what she said.  Anyhow, I'm scared that it will be worst than nothing at all.

Are you willing to at least try it and see? For me, it was worse, and I told my wife "let's just stop" after we tried it.

 

8 hours ago, blaigorn said:

I think the fear of scheduled sex, specially if it's perceived as duty sex, not being enough to fulfill you (even worse than no sex, as you stated) is totally valid. I also share the same fear, as I'm opening myself up to try a compromise again, and I'm not sure there's a compromise that will be good for both of us

Valid fear.

 

Speaking for myself, I tried it. I wasn't enthusiastic about it and I didn't expect it to thrill me, but I didn't want to just say No to it without giving it a chance. Leave no stone un-turned.

 

So, my wife is just not my sexual lover anymore. We're loved-ones, but the mutual expectation is "not that."

 

Surprisingly, I'm more secure with that than she is. She's questioning her asexuality - Is it at all gray? Is it at all demi? Might she ever have desire again in the future?

 

If it ever happens, she can seduce me. But that's what it would take - she would have to want it enough to seduce me into it and convince me of her own desire.

 

On 4/8/2025 at 6:31 PM, warmregards said:

her willingly sharing body exclusively to you is the biggest love sign in ace I can think of, and it's hot af in an ace way.

It's not hot to the other person, though. "Willingness" might be love, and I appreciate that, but mere willingness is not desire, and it's not hot. It feels transactional, empty and like a sad reminder of sex that's worth wanting.

[cresting830]

14 hours ago, PonderingOnTheNet said:

I think she's floated the idea of scheduled sex.  It comes down to how to interpret what she said.  Anyhow, I'm scared that it will be worst than nothing at all.  What I need is to perceive the feeling that having sex with me is something she wants.  I can't imagine how I will be able to perceive that even if the sexual activity picks up from scheduling.

My wife and I have tried scheduled sex for a good time and I'd like to share a couple things that we've learned. The idea is, as you said to prioritize connection and set aside a specific time for that. The intent for me and my wife was that I as a sexual person don't have to overinterpret every touch and could calm down and get excited for the day. My wife on the other hand could also fully engage in non sexual intimacy without feeling that she would "lead me on" or that she would let me down if I got worked up (she has said multiple times that she never felt that she was afraid to touch me but has said that she felt like letting me down when she said no to my initiation attempts). At the time we assumed that she was low libido or heavily on the side of responsive desire so having time to work herself up also sounded like a good idea. We never quite talked about how I could help with the "working up" part so it ended up with me having a timer in my head and being all giddy about it (we now know that with her being at least gray-ace that she had a lot of trouble figuring out what would work herself). Her experience was very different it was a shedule that was often forgotten and boy I tell you that does sting. Tremendously. We sit on the couch and I don't want to mention it but I get more anxious the later the evening goes and after some time I ask softly and she got all "Oh right that was today, hey there". I felt like shit in that moment... So eventually we had another talk and she expressed that it stressed her out and added more pressure and we dropped the entire thing since stress and pressure was soooo far from what we wanted to achieve with this setup.

My point is: In theory it COULD work if both parties communicate and truly dedicate time and preparation to it but you gotta mentally prepare for it not working out and being fine with that as well.

[blaigorn]

2 hours ago, cresting830 said:

Her experience was very different it was a shedule that was often forgotten and boy I tell you that does sting. Tremendously. We sit on the couch and I don't want to mention it but I get more anxious the later the evening goes and after some time I ask softly and she got all "Oh right that was today, hey there". I felt like shit in that moment... So eventually we had another talk and she expressed that it stressed her out and added more pressure and we dropped the entire thing since stress and pressure was soooo far from what we wanted to achieve with this setup.

Are you me? We didn't have explicit scheduled sex per se, because I didn't like the idea of her not being able to say no if she didn't really feel up for it (of course even with scheduled sex, they are absolutely free to not want it). So we had intimate times where there was some expectation to have sex, but it was more: let's start by kissing and cuddling and see where it leads. It led to the worst anxiety and disappointment to me. If I initiated, she would seem so "not into it", like she didn't want to be there but was trying her hardest. If I touched her sexually I would get a frequent "no". When I stopped initiating she would simply not initiate, or defer it until the time had passed.

 

I remember a specially hurtful one where we took 2 days off work for ourselves, where our kid was in daycare. We decided to do that after a couples therapy session because we recognized we simply did not have time to ourselves after having him (I could argue there are a lot of barriers that are only created on her mind, like not wanting to have sex when the kid is asleep, even if we are in a different floor, because he could need us). So we were super excited for that. There was the expectation we would have sex, because that was the reason we decided to take the time off. 

 

So day one, we kind of decided we would take the time to ourselves and our hobbies, to recharge and reset, and had a nice lunch together. I was kind of hoping for sex, but I was ok with it not happening. Day 2 I was absolutely excited about the potential for sex. It didn't happen. I don't even remember what we did in that day. The weekend then passed, and then on Monday, we had another appointment with our couples therapist, after lunch. I asked her if she wanted to go out for a quick lunch before our appointment and she asked me: "Do you want to make out for a bit?" I almost laughed, we had maybe 10 minutes before lunch, felt like she was joking. I knew she only suggested that because she recognized it was going to be a topic on our couple's therapy. It shows how she kept running away and delaying it. Like trying to escape a doctor's appointment. So yeah, scheduled sex, I'm not sure it will work for me, because it will be like a doctor's appointment for her. And one she can keep delaying, because there's no way I'm going to force on her, or go ahead if I feel she's not there.

 

I try to keep open to a compromise. She said she's willing to work on it. I really am trying to keep an open mind, but given our history it does seem like we both will need to do a lot of work to make it work somehow (if it works at all).

[Frameshift07]

How does scheduled sex work? it sounds to my ears like asking someone "at 10:30, can you feel happy?" It doesn't sound like something you can just switch on, besides creating a vague atmosphere of obligation that sounds like it'd make it harder for the ace partner to say "no."

[blaigorn]

5 minutes ago, Frameshift07 said:

How does scheduled sex work? it sounds to my ears like asking someone "at 10:30, can you feel happy?" It doesn't sound like something you can just switch on, besides creating a vague atmosphere of obligation that sounds like it'd make it harder for the ace partner to say "no."

I think scheduled sex might work for low libido, or partners that require more responsive desire to get in the mood. Maybe sex favorable asexuals too. It's a time where you are both setting aside to connect intimately. It's scheduled, so you can look forward to it, or prepare mentally for it. You are making an effort to make that happen during that time. It's like setting up a date. Of course, nothing might happen, you might just not be in the mood at all, and that should always be ok. I can imagine in certain relationships, for more sex neutral or averse asexuals, it could also work, as a "OK, this is the time I'm doing something my loved one absolutely loves, even if I don't like or enjoy it". Of course, this might not work for everyone.

[Olallieberry]

6 hours ago, Frameshift07 said:

How does scheduled sex work? it sounds to my ears like asking someone "at 10:30, can you feel happy?" It doesn't sound like something you can just switch on, besides creating a vague atmosphere of obligation that sounds like it'd make it harder for the ace partner to say "no."

I don’t see how it can work unless the ace partner wants to do it.

 

I don’t mean like “wants it” like wants sex, I mean is really invested in succeeding at pleasing their partner, invested enough that they look forward to it.

 

Instead of just forgetting every time, like someone said, or instead of getting apprehensive about the upcoming obligation.

[uhtred]

My (asexual) wife has tried to set up "scheduled" sex.  She didn't talk to me about it, but it clear its what she is doing - it doesn't work well. She has set aside Sunday afternoons.   There are several problems: Sundays are our "chore"days which despite her claiming it something she wants to do, its pretty clearly a "chore" for her.   Also most sundays there is some reason not to do anything so it isn't so much scheduled sex as a guarantee of no sex at any other time.  Also, she is very limited in the sorts of sexual things she wants to do, so we don't end up doing much even when it does happen.

 

I don't want to turn her down directly when she initiates, but I always let her know its OK not to do anything, but I think she feels she "should".

 

I'm sure scheduled sex works for some couples, but not really for us

[lovetolove]

On 4/10/2025 at 6:22 PM, PonderingOnTheNet said:

This is what scares me.  My wife just came out to me as asexual.  I've accepted that it's not me and it's an orientation for her.  As such, there's nothing wrong and nothing to be fixed.  I also don't like the idea of a separation because I feel there is a lot of great things about our marriage over the years that is precious and important to me.  But, I have my needs, too.  I think she's floated the idea of scheduled sex.  It comes down to how to interpret what she said.  Anyhow, I'm scared that it will be worst than nothing at all.  What I need is to perceive the feeling that having sex with me is something she wants.  I can't imagine how I will be able to perceive that even if the sexual activity picks up from scheduling.

I'm still under 3 weeks into this new found knowledge, but it's still overwhelming and confusing.  I know there's still a lot of learning, conversation, and soul searching to be had.  I've been really trying to consider what scheduled sex would look like to me and how I would react to it.  Even under this circumstance, I think I might still be able to get that feeling that she wants to have sex with me if she did things like start wearing lingerie again and/or initiating it.  Maybe surprise me with something like "I know we were supposed to have dinner with my parents tonight (or some other important event), but let's skip it and go get naked upstairs."  I mean, that might click in my head that she even with scheduled/obligated sex, she is still prioritizing having that with me above other things.  I don't know.  Again, I'm still working through it, but those are thoughts that I've been mulling over.

Feeling overwhelmed and confused is to be expected at this very early stage, it can feel like your entire world has turned upside down and nothing is what you thought it was.   It's important that you both give yourselves time and space to think and talk. You might want to consider taking sex off the table completely whilst you both are processing this new information.  This can help to take the pressure off during this period of readjustment, and will give you both time to talk about whether, as you think, your wife is agreeable to some form of compromise with regards to sex and if so, how that would work.

 

As @uhtred stated above, for many sexuals it's the lack of sexual desire which can make appointment sex feel meaningless and just not worth having.  Scheduling time for sex can obviously work well for couples who are not sexually mismatched but simply have busy lives, but that's a very different situation. 

 

You're hoping that your wife may be able and/or willing to sometimes initiate sex, to prioritise it, to wear lingerie etc...hopefully you will gain clarity during your talks together so that you're both clear about what is, and what is not, possible.  

 

My wife would never have initiated sex spontaneously...it just wouldn't enter her head, as an asexual person she doesn't need it or feel desire for it or think about it.  She could cope with scheduled sex because it wasn't sprung on her and she had time to mentally prepare herself, whatever that took.  She was always OK once we got started, as long as it was me who made the first moves.   If I hadn't, we'd both have just lay in the bed staring at the ceiling. It was just weird and awkward for us both.   

 

You've got a way to go yet and the process can be a bit of a rollercoaster of emotions, I wish you luck and hope you can work out a compromise that you're both happy with.

 

 

[blaigorn]

8 hours ago, lovetolove said:

She was always OK once we got started, as long as it was me who made the first moves.   If I hadn't, we'd both have just lay in the bed staring at the ceiling. It was just weird and awkward for us both.   

I’m glad this is working for you. For me this sounds surreal, the thought that if I don’t initiate, it would be like that (because it did happen for me, and I believe this would happen if we tried to have scheduled sex as a compromise). I do believe that maybe this is a part of compromise for the allo. Dealing with the fact that I would have to be the one to initiate and believing that she was truly ok with that. But it feels and sounds so off that I don’t know if I can.

Nowadays that we are taught enthusiastic consent, how can any of this be enthusiastic at all? It just feels like it’s impossible to have a compromise solution on allo/ace relationships 

[lovetolove]

K

9 hours ago, blaigorn said:

I’m glad this is working for you. For me this sounds surreal, the thought that if I don’t initiate, it would be like that (because it did happen for me, and I believe this would happen if we tried to have scheduled sex as a compromise). I do believe that maybe this is a part of compromise for the allo. Dealing with the fact that I would have to be the one to initiate and believing that she was truly ok with that. But it feels and sounds so off that I don’t know if I can.

Nowadays that we are taught enthusiastic consent, how can any of this be enthusiastic at all? It just feels like it’s impossible to have a compromise solution on allo/ace relationships 

It didn't work for me precisely because I feel/felt about it like you do.  So we don't do it any more. I've chosen celibacy...because I don't want to split up and ENM isn't for me.  There are no other options.  It doesn't mean I like being celibate but I'm working hard on accepting it and focusing on the 99% of our relationship that has nothing to do with sex.  Making the best of a bad situation. 

[Olallieberry]

10 hours ago, blaigorn said:

Nowadays that we are taught enthusiastic consent, how can any of this be enthusiastic at all? It just feels like it’s impossible to have a compromise solution on allo/ace relationships 

It makes one question whether one's own consent is enthusiastic or not, doesn't it.

 

Looks like for many of us it is not, under the circumstances.

[Liara]

1 hour ago, lovetolove said:

K

It didn't work for me precisely because I feel/felt about it like you do.  So we don't do it any more. I've chosen celibacy...because I don't want to split up and ENM isn't for me.  There are no other options.  It doesn't mean I like being celibate but I'm working hard on accepting it and focusing on the 99% of our relationship that has nothing to do with sex.  Making the best of a bad situation. 

I really would like to know how to do that…

[blaigorn]

8 minutes ago, Liara said:

I really would like to know how to do that…

have you considered working with a therapist (if you have the means and possibility to)? I do believe it is possible to adapt, rewire your brain and accept most situations. The human brain is incredible. But given your long history, it would probably take a lot of effort, and guidance of a professional would be helpful. Even if it doesn’t fully work, with the right professional you can probably find the right tools to cope with your situation… or even find new solutions.

 

I’ve been working with a therapist for the last year and my progress has been tremendous. She pushed me to share my experiences on this forum (or any other places). 

[Olallieberry]

3 hours ago, lovetolove said:

focusing on the 99% of our relationship that has nothing to do with sex.  Making the best of a bad situation. 

1 hour ago, Liara said:

I really would like to know how to do that…

What are the ways in which you are not doing that?

 

Maybe you are making the best of the bad situation?
 

Your move seems to have gone well. You got your own room, right? Or did that not work?

[uhtred]

2 hours ago, blaigorn said:

have you considered working with a therapist (if you have the means and possibility to)? I do believe it is possible to adapt, rewire your brain and accept most situations. The human brain is incredible. But given your long history, it would probably take a lot of effort, and guidance of a professional would be helpful. Even if it doesn’t fully work, with the right professional you can probably find the right tools to cope with your situation… or even find new solutions.

 

I’ve been working with a therapist for the last year and my progress has been tremendous. She pushed me to share my experiences on this forum (or any other places). 

I don't  know if that works.   Its widely accepted that someone who is gay can't stop desiring same-sex partners.   

 

I do agree that that accepting reality is  important but that acceptance doesn't always lead to happiness. 

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, uhtred said:

I don't  know if that works.   Its widely accepted that someone who is gay can't stop desiring same-sex partners.   

 

I do agree that that accepting reality is  important but that acceptance doesn't always lead to happiness. 

They were talking about acceptance, not about changing sexual orientation. Neuroplasticity is real and has many applications, even if that isn't one of them.

[blaigorn]

yeah it’s not about stopping desiring or suppressing your urges and needs, it’s about accepting and be at peace with a situation that can’t change. I do believe it is possible.

 

Why don’t I do the same? That’s something I could work on, but I decided I’m not prepared to give up on living a more diverse and fulfilling life, not while there are alternatives.

[Liara]

9 hours ago, blaigorn said:

have you considered working with a therapist (if you have the means and possibility to)? I do believe it is possible to adapt, rewire your brain and accept most situations. The human brain is incredible. But given your long history, it would probably take a lot of effort, and guidance of a professional would be helpful. Even if it doesn’t fully work, with the right professional you can probably find the right tools to cope with your situation… or even find new solutions.

 

I’ve been working with a therapist for the last year and my progress has been tremendous. She pushed me to share my experiences on this forum (or any other places). 

I see a psychiatrist since 2012 for my anxiety, agoraphobia and depression. But with an appointment every three months it’s not enough to make any change, just trying to stabilize my mood and stop dark thoughts. But since our moving, it’s hard to find a new psychiatrist. I was on a waiting list these pasts months. I finally have an appointment in a few weeks but that will be only to continue my treatment and nothing more.

And I don’t have the money for a psychologist. I tried one last year, it stopped it after some months, too pricey. And I learned there are some things I could not accept to change.

 

8 hours ago, Olallieberry said:

What are the ways in which you are not doing that?

 

Maybe you are making the best of the bad situation?
 

Your move seems to have gone well. You got your own room, right? Or did that not work?

I don’t have my own bedroom. We still share the same bed. I decided to give up on that for now, it was a topic too tense for her. We still have some stressful things to handle here, i will wait until it goes better.

i try to find a better balance in this new house, to be a better partner more present for her. Because it’s easier if she has a better mood.

 

1 hour ago, blaigorn said:

yeah it’s not about stopping desiring or suppressing your urges and needs, it’s about accepting and be at peace with a situation that can’t change. I do believe it is possible.

 

Why don’t I do the same? That’s something I could work on, but I decided I’m not prepared to give up on living a more diverse and fulfilling life, not while there are alternatives.

Hard to find my peace and to accept I have to give up any intimacy, romantic love, physical closeness and sex…

[uhtred]

10 hours ago, Liara said:

snip

 

Hard to find my peace and to accept I have to give up any intimacy, romantic love, physical closeness and sex…

That is the difficult thing.  One can "accept" it in the sense of knowing that it will never change, but that doesn't mean that its OK. 

Sometimes I wonder how many mixed  couples are actually happy, and how often one or the other has "accepted" the inevitable: Either unwanted sex, or unwanted celibacy.  Having accepted they tell their partner that it is OK, when in fact it is anything but. 

 

My wife things things are fine. Since she can't change and I'm not willing to leave, there seems not point making her also unhappy with life. There is no compromise that would work, we are too far apart.  I'm not interested in ENM, and she would not accept it even if I were.   For a wide variety of reason, I'm unwilling to leave. So... there we are. 

 

I pretend to be happy. She hopefully is happy, but possibly is pretending as well.   All very sad but "accepted" because there is no way out. 

[Liara]

10 minutes ago, uhtred said:

That is the difficult thing.  One can "accept" it in the sense of knowing that it will never change, but that doesn't mean that its OK. 

Sometimes I wonder how many mixed  couples are actually happy, and how often one or the other has "accepted" the inevitable: Either unwanted sex, or unwanted celibacy.  Having accepted they tell their partner that it is OK, when in fact it is anything but. 

 

My wife things things are fine. Since she can't change and I'm not willing to leave, there seems not point making her also unhappy with life. There is no compromise that would work, we are too far apart.  I'm not interested in ENM, and she would not accept it even if I were.   For a wide variety of reason, I'm unwilling to leave. So... there we are. 

 

I pretend to be happy. She hopefully is happy, but possibly is pretending as well.   All very sad but "accepted" because there is no way out. 

Same here. I think my partner knows it’s not really ok for me but she doesn’t know how much it’s not ok. I have no reason to tell her because, as you said, what’s the point? No change is possible.

[uhtred]

30 minutes ago, Liara said:

Same here. I think my partner knows it’s not really ok for me but she doesn’t know how much it’s not ok. I have no reason to tell her because, as you said, what’s the point? No change is possible.

Its funny. I keep telling other people that the shouldn't accept this situation, that they should change - leave if necessary so that they can be happy. But then I don't do it. 

 

I know the various reasons that I won't leave, and some are my own emotional / psychological issues, but I still think that for most people it is the best choice. 

[blaigorn]

1 hour ago, uhtred said:

Its funny. I keep telling other people that the shouldn't accept this situation, that they should change - leave if necessary so that they can be happy. But then I don't do it

Same happens to me. From the outside it clearly looks like people should just leave. For me there’s the shared life together: house, vacations, hobbies, friends, life goals. And a small child. 
 

We do have a lot of issues too, today was particularly rough on having to deal with a few things she did or acted that made me feel like I don’t matter. It’s not just the sex that’s off. But I feel the other things are just easier to deal with, and happen when we are at our worst. I probably am not that great either from time to time, nobody is perfect 

[lovetolove]

On 4/12/2025 at 11:09 PM, Liara said:

I really would like to know how to do that…

Acceptance of the situation AND living a happy and peaceful and fulfilled life with that acceptance seems impossible to achieve, and as some have already said, many of us end up unhappy but pretending to be OK because we don't want to hurt our loved ones by speaking our truth.

 

Does it come back to whether we believe sex is a need or a want? If we insist on believing it's a need, ie is necessary for us to live, we might never find true acceptance and happiness without it. If we believe it's a want, then it can be placed somewhere on our list of relationship "wants", what we want from our partner.  Also, I think it's vital to acknowledge and own one's decision to stay in the relationship, I've learnt that even if it doesn't feel like much of a choice it is a free choice, unless you're being held hostage in chains then it's always a choice.   And having freely made that choice, then choose how to live with it.

 

 If the vast majority of our relationship "wants" are ticked, then maybe its not so hard to accept the "wants" that are missing?  

 

But - and for me this is top of my list - she has to show awareness and compassion and empathy and she has to allow me to talk and be sad about the loss of sexual connection... whenever I need to talk....she owes it to me to be there, to listen, to support me as a good and dear friend would do.  Whether or not she feels hurt by my honesty is not for me to worry about, we are both responsible for our own feelings. She knows my intention is not to hurt her purposely. She also accepts that my pain is real and she can witness it.  She doesn't want a partner who is pretending to be OK.   Being seen and heard and accepted is vital for me, without that I can't work on focusing on all the good stuff and all my "wants" that are met in our relationship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Liara]

Last time we talked about this with my partner (that was more than 15 years ago), her first words were "Oh not that again". Like we talked about that all the time (we never talked about that).
So I learned to keep that for me.

[lovetolove]

On 4/14/2025 at 9:04 AM, Liara said:

Last time we talked about this with my partner (that was more than 15 years ago), her first words were "Oh not that again". Like we talked about that all the time (we never talked about that).
So I learned to keep that for me.

Understandable that you'd be reluctant to broach the subject again. Especially so because (I gather from your earlier posts) you were inexperienced in relationships at that time and maybe didn't have the confidence or experience to know how to deal with that response.   

[Liara]

9 hours ago, lovetolove said:

Understandable that you'd be reluctant to broach the subject again. Especially so because (I gather from your earlier posts) you were inexperienced in relationships at that time and maybe didn't have the confidence or experience to know how to deal with that response.   

Absolutely. Difficult to get experience when you have just one relationship. And I still don't know how to react and deal with that. There is too much pain and fear in her reaction, and I'm not sure I want to broach that subject again when I know nothing can really be changed.

[Sailorman]

the scheduled sex did not work for us, she always had a reason for missing it. Whenever I would bring up the subject I got that "not again" response. After finding this forum, I realized she may be on the asexual spectrum. Yesterday I asked if she had any thoughts on asexuality or the asexuality spectrum,  to broach the subject and hopefully generate a discussion. her response was "I have no thoughts about it"  BTW, I'm 70 and also dreading.

[Olallieberry]

12 hours ago, Sailorman said:

the scheduled sex did not work for us, she always had a reason for missing it. Whenever I would bring up the subject I got that "not again" response

This would totally infuriate me. "The hell you mean, 'not again'? We negotiated this and you bailed out!"

 

It sounds really insensitive, gaslighty and confrontational, the way you describe it.

[Sailorman]

sensitivity is not her forte, as she readily admits. But I'm glad to hear you say "gaslighty". I've been thinking that I've been gaslit (gaslighted?) for the past 39 years and its good to hear someone else say it.