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Comparative validity of reasons for not wanting to have sex


M51

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You have no idea how much I want that to be true. Do we have any examples of healthy male sexuals (not hyposexual, not suffering from any mental or physical disorders, not masochistic, etc.) who are happily adjusted to a marriage with an asexual wife? I mean, not "in crisis" and "working on the problem" but already successfully solved it? Someone please give me a success story I can cling to for hope.

Good conversation, guys. You've articulated your views beautifully. Steve, I can't offer you the example you're looking for. I'm in the same boat you are. My sexuality is part of my humanity, and "cutting it out" isn't possible without a lot of psychic damage. That said, if my wife had come to me at the outset of our relationship saying "I'm crazy about you, I desire you, I don't want sex but I want you to be happy and I want to work with you to reach some compromise" it would have been very different. As it happened, I thought I was marrying a sexual woman, but lost that partner somewhere along the road.

She didn't know what she was. Em DOES know what she is and is open and knows what asexuality is and what it isn't. She's educated on this issue. So if she can educate her partner, up front, and keep an open conversation on the topic with him, it seems to me that's a new kind of relationship. You're not going to find examples of that, because there haven't been many relationships starting on that sort of footing.

Aven might make that sort of conversation more common, with vastly improved marriages for all of us. Sex is something that's taken as a given in human relations, and it's a lot more complicated than that.

-Chiaroscuro

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AliceInWonderland
....Alice, as far as excuses....I definitely do not waver over whether or not I will ever want sex. I won't. I am asexual. I don't even waver over whether or not I will like sex. I won't...

You're ahead of my husband in this respect.

I play with the idea that perhaps there is some way to make sex engaging to me in a nonsexual way.

Your reply above prompted me to ask my husband if he feels this way. He just said that the truth is that he doesn't know enough about sex to know if he wants it or not.

I don't know how I could accomplish this, and there is no way to find out unless I find a partner willing to work with me on it.

This reply is basically the same thing my husband said to me today, but he already has a partner, of course, but he doesn't want me to initiate the sex, and he isn't doing it either, so what's one to do? (-shrugging my shoulders and looking up at the ceiling)

I don't think sex will ever be natural to me. But can I approach it from some other angle, to make it engaging enough to me that I don't feel left out, don't feel the building resentment towards my partner? I don't know.

My husband hasn't said this to me, but it sounds like something he might say or feel.

Anyways, I don't think I make excuses. I am pretty clear and honest about my reasons.

This is good, I believe.

...let's pretend or assume for a second that it IS possible for me to find some sort of positive approach to sex. It will take me a while to find it. It will take me a while to get to know someone who I trust enough to find it. It will take work and understanding from my partner.

Yes, my husband's views.

So why is asking him to wait a while and take it slow with me and make concessions (after all, I am also making some serious concessions) so much?

My husband again.

I also want to point out that I have noticed when I've gone in and looked at the profiles of some of the asexuals here, I see that they're questioning. So, that's the same thing my husband is doing. I don't understand that. Don't you know if you want it or not (especially after so many years)? I suppose it might be harder for a man to know if he's asexual since men are usually the initiators and women are not normally (someone jump in if they feel otherwise because this is only my point of view and it's limited). Otherwise, I don't understand why one wouldn't know for sure. I wish I could speak my husband's language, so that, if nothing else, I could just understand him better. Even if we end up not working things out, I still would like to know that we did try. How can we try if we're not speaking the same language?

I don't expect you to be my psychiatrist, and I'm sorry if I'm rambling, but if I could just get some more insight into what's going on in my husband's (an asexual's) head, I think I'd feel much better, and you seem so aware...anyway, any insight you could give would be appreciated. Although, I guess I haven't posed a question, I think any reply you give might help.

....Open up to enough people, and I'd be damned surprised if you don't find one who likes what he sees...

I believe this is true.

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M51, you asked why sexuals seem uninterested in partnering up with you. You pointed out that you are reasonably attractive, smart, interesting and stable. You are willing to "compromise" (in some yet-to-be-determined way). This makes you feel like sexuals should give you a chance.

Here's the real reason why they don't: they don't have to. There are plenty of potential mates out there, and 99% of them are sexuals. Many of them are reasonably attractive, smart, interesting and stable. Why would a sexual deliberately choose a relatonship that has such a huge problem built right into it?

Wouldn't you be happier in a relationship with another asexual? You surely don't want to struggle with all the problems Olivier, Bunny, Chiaroscuro and I have been talking about.

I've been following this thread and finding it really interesting (way to be articulate and sensitive and thought provoking, guys) but I really wanted to address this point because I feel like it's one of those awful, harsh-but-true things that most of us have to contend with, not just when it comes to sex.

Like, in general, why would someone date an awesome person with physical or mental health issues, mood disorders, baggage or trauma from their past, or any of the other millions of things that make our lives tough and complicated ... if instead they could find an awesome partner who is "normal".

The fact is, nobody's "perfect" and everyone's idea of what perfect is would be different anyhow! Trying to find a mate means wading through the issues that are deal breakers for you, and allowing yourself to be compassionate toward those that aren't. I know that for myself, dating a person with a physical disability or a mental health disorder would not be a dealbreaker. I have family and friends who struggle with these issues and I think I could be caring and good to a person with those issues.

However, dating an open asexual would be a problem for me in the same way that it's been described by Hallu, BunnyK and others. I've been in relationships where my sex drive was matched 100% by my partner, and in relationships where it has been unbalanced. The difference to my feelings/interactions with my partner, my ability to enjoy other aspects of the relationship, my self esteem and my general moods is immesurable. I know that compromise would be a huge ordeal for me, so I don't see any reasons to put myself and another person through that pain.

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M51, you asked why sexuals seem uninterested in partnering up with you. You pointed out that you are reasonably attractive, smart, interesting and stable. You are willing to "compromise" (in some yet-to-be-determined way). This makes you feel like sexuals should give you a chance.

Here's the real reason why they don't: they don't have to. There are plenty of potential mates out there, and 99% of them are sexuals. Many of them are reasonably attractive, smart, interesting and stable. Why would a sexual deliberately choose a relatonship that has such a huge problem built right into it?

Wouldn't you be happier in a relationship with another asexual? You surely don't want to struggle with all the problems Olivier, Bunny, Chiaroscuro and I have been talking about.

I've been following this thread and finding it really interesting (way to be articulate and sensitive and thought provoking, guys) but I really wanted to address this point because I feel like it's one of those awful, harsh-but-true things that most of us have to contend with, not just when it comes to sex.

Like, in general, why would someone date an awesome person with physical or mental health issues, mood disorders, baggage or trauma from their past, or any of the other millions of things that make our lives tough and complicated ... if instead they could find an awesome partner who is "normal".

The fact is, nobody's perfect and everyone's idea of what perfect is would be different anyhow! Trying to find a mate means wading through the issues that are deal breakers for you, and allowing yourself to be compassionate toward those that aren't. I know that for myself, dating a person with a physical disability or a mental health disorder would not be a dealbreaker. I have family and friends who struggle with these issues and I think I could be caring and good to a person like that.

However, dating an open asexual would be a problem for me in the same way that it's been described by Hallu, BunnyK and others. I've been in relationships where my sex drive was matched 100% by my partner, and in relationships where it has been unbalanced. The difference to my feelings/interactions with my partner, my ability to enjoy other aspects of the relationship, my self esteem and my general moods is immesurable. I know that compromise would be a huge ordeal for me, so I don't see any reasons to put myself and another person through that pain.

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Sheesh it's not a matter of "which girl/guy is better" but of "which guy/girl you want to be with". You don't need to have fantastic sex or sex at all to feel love and I know that people would want you M51....I look for personalities and that is why I rarely have any girls because when I see a girl that I like, it is because of her qualities. It is VERY rare because I am so picky with personalities but not looks. I know that you will find the right guy for you!

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Well, again, to the original question of this post.... So pretend I find someone who I have a chance with. I may or not be able to make things work. I may or may not be able to fulfill him sexually. Nobody here can doom me to failure or bet on my success. So the sexual who gets into a relationship with me is taking a chance that he might never get sex, never get enough sex, or never get fulfilling sex.

The original question is NOT if I could succeed at these things. It is why that risk is any higher than the risk of the religious couple who are going to wait until marriage. Again, each partner takes the chance that they may never get sex (if the relationship does not work out), might never get enough sex (if their drives turn out to be different), or might never get fulfilling sex (if they are waiting for marriage, how do they know if it will be any good?). And as I said, a religious couple waiting for marriage has a small chance of actually getting married in the next year, whereas my hypothetical partner has a very good chance of getting sex in the next year. So if it is about sex, the less risky option is actually me the asexual over the sexual but religious girl.

So I don't understand it as a "light at the end of the tunnel" thing. Because I really would be willing to give my partner sex. I just want to try something new; something that might make it work out, which involves a little patience, understanding, and maybe work on my partner's side. All relationships require that, don't they?

I also want to point out that I have noticed when I've gone in and looked at the profiles of some of the asexuals here, I see that they're questioning. So, that's the same thing my husband is doing. I don't understand that. Don't you know if you want it or not (especially after so many years)?

Well, I have never questioned. I knew the second I saw this site that it described me, and that I was home. So maybe I am not the best to answer this. But I think that the questioning generally comes into play because sex is so tied up with emotions and status and social expectations. We are trained from a very young age that love equals sex, and that sex is the ultimate culmination of physical affection/attraction/love. I think people who are not sure if they are asexual or not are trying to sort out all their feelings and expectations and such. Do they desire sex for sex? That is hard to say for a lot of people who psychologically associate it with intimacy.

I suppose it might be harder for a man to know if he's asexual since men are usually the initiators and women are not normally (someone jump in if they feel otherwise because this is only my point of view and it's limited).

Haha, I always thought the opposite. It is easier for a woman to simply let sex happen and to equate that to love (because women are taught that being sexually attractive is one of their primary defining characteristics), whereas a man has to actually want sex to initiate it, and if he is passive about it other men will beat him to the girl.

But who knows? This sort of thing is like apples and oranges, and varies with the individual.

I wish I could speak my husband's language, so that, if nothing else, I could just understand him better.

Funny, I am a linguist by profession. And this actually kind of reminded me of something I observed in Arabic school. You cannot translate Arabic word for word into English or vice versa. They are simply too different, to the point that most people agree that English and Arabic actually represent two culturally different ways of thinking. You have to take the sense or context of what you want to say and re-express it, oftentimes drawing on cultural meanings or cultural sensitivities that when translated literally make no sense in the other culture. I don't think you can translate asexuality word for word into the sexual language.

But you pointed out that a lot of what I say is your husband's point of view. Maybe I express it differently, or word it differently, because I have some experience talking about it? So hopefully even if you still don't completely understand, and even if we don't quite agree on the details, maybe by discussing this together you have a higher awareness of the asexual perspective. Maybe as time goes on and you talk to more asexuals, you will find things here and there that illuminate your husband's thinking. Hopefully you will slowly learn to understand his language, even if you never really speak it. And hopefully he realizes that he must also take the time and effort to learn to understand yours.

Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and thanks again for the discussion.

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Hmm, I've been thinking a lot about what the difference is between your hypothetical situation and the 'Christian couple' who are waiting for marriage (or similar).

Essentially, I've come to the conclusion that the only potential difference is your goals at the outset of the relationship.

At the start of the Christian couple's relationship, they both have the same goal: no sex until marriage. They're aware of the potential problems that might arise in the future, but because they both believe in the same thing, they're willing to trust that it will work out.

Your hypothetical relationship would have to be with a sexual whose goal is the same as yours (I'm paraphrasing, and correct me if I've missed the point, but essentially 'to take the time to get to know a person deeply and intimately before [potentially] opening the door to a sexual relationship').

If you find a sexual who feels like that's a good way to start a relationship, then there would be no difference - you'd both be striving toward the same goal, with the full understanding that there aren't any guarantees in life, but if two people are willing to try hard, sometimes magic can happen.

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It is why that risk is any higher than the risk of the religious couple who are going to wait until marriage. Again, each partner takes the chance that they may never get sex (if the relationship does not work out), might never get enough sex (if their drives turn out to be different), or might never get fulfilling sex (if they are waiting for marriage, how do they know if it will be any good?). And as I said, a religious couple waiting for marriage has a small chance of actually getting married in the next year, whereas my hypothetical partner has a very good chance of getting sex in the next year. So if it is about sex, the less risky option is actually me the asexual over the sexual but religious girl.

As someone who comes from that religious tradition... I don't know that the "risk" you're talking about is higher for you. I don't think most of my religious friends who've dated and waited to have sex till they were married really viewed it as a risk though. They both had the same reasons for withholding sex, and if they're really committed to abstinence then having sex as soon as possible isn't where their focus is anyway. So it's not as if either of them is going into the relationship calculating, "What are the odds that I will get to have sex within the next year if I date this person, vs. if I don't?"

However, as many of my friends can attest, the search for a compatible partner who shares the same essential values (in the case of my friends, their faith and the behavioral commitments that go with it) can be incredibly long and frustrating. I know quite a few men and women who are well into their 30s who are still single because they haven't found anybody who they connect with AND is on board with their beliefs/needs/preferences/whatever.

So it's not just you, and it's not just asexuality.

You also said you aren't attracted to very many people. I'm similar; I'm definitely capable of romantic attraction, but it doesn't happen very often. I've had to factor this in to my expectations about finding a compatible man. I think, if I was going to enter a relationship with a man, it'd be on similar terms to the ones you describe: no sex for a long time, possibly never, and it may require a lot of creativity to find something that works. (Somewhat different for me, as I've never had sex, so I don't know exactly what would happen if I was in such a relationship... but I would want the man to understand and be prepared for my never enjoying sex in the conventional way.)

So, when you take the pool of available, age-appropriate males in your area, subtract the ones that don't really want a committed relationship anyway, subtract again the ones that would never consider a relationship that started out with abstinence for any reason, subtract again the ones that you aren't attracted to, and subtract again the ones that aren't attracted to you (that's my least favorite part).

Leaves a smallish remaining segment.

You can look at this calculation as depressing, but to me it's encouraging: it shows me a very good reason why I haven't found someone yet. It's not that there's something horribly wrong with me, it's not that there's something horribly wrong with the world; it's just that there are relatively few men out there that I'm at all compatible with, and so it's not surprising that I haven't yet run across the right one at the right time. I still have high hopes that it'll happen someday though.

I hope this perspective helps in some way.

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As someone waiting for marriage, also dating someone waiting for marriage, (so I guess as a couple we are both waiting for marriage) I thought I might adress that.

I think the main difference people percieve in that vs. asexuality is the possibility (however slim that is) of how the sex-life will be after marriage.

The thinking seems to be that once the abstinent couple is married they will no longer be abstinent, and can have all the sex they want. However, when a sexual marries an asexual extra compromise will still be occurring.

They are seeing "Okay, four years of 'comprimising' and then all I want" or "A lifetime of 'compromising'".

I do think, however, that the most important thing is that the drives are the same. Marrying an asexual wouldn't be nearly as problematic for someone with a low sex drive, for example. And I would have problems reminiscent of what an asexual-sexaul would have if my boyfriend had a low drive and I was hypersexual, or vice versa. I am lucky that we both have fairly low drives (His slightly lower, but the difference is negligent. And it is something I can tell without having sex with him.)

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First of all, I changed from Alice to Carlie (more appropriate screen name, I think). Now, read on. Thanks.

Well' date=' again, to the original question of this post.... So pretend I find someone who I have a chance with. I may or not be able to make things work. I may or may not be able to fulfill him sexually. Nobody here can doom me to failure or bet on my success. So the sexual who gets into a relationship with me is taking a chance that he might never get sex, never get enough sex, or never get fulfilling sex.[/quote']

I agree, but I think this is more or less true with anyone as Lirelyn pointed out in the 4:03 am post.

The original question is NOT if I could succeed at these things. It is why that risk is any higher than the risk of the religious couple who are going to wait until marriage. Again' date=' each partner takes the chance that they may never get sex (if the relationship does not work out), might never get enough sex (if their drives turn out to be different), or might never get fulfilling sex (if they are waiting for marriage, how do they know if it will be any good?). And as I said, a religious couple waiting for marriage has a small chance of actually getting married in the next year, whereas my hypothetical partner has a very good chance of getting sex in the next year. So if it is about sex, the less risky option is actually me the asexual over the sexual but religious girl.

So I don't understand it as a "light at the end of the tunnel" thing. Because I really would be willing to give my partner sex. I just want to try something new; something that might make it work out, which involves a little patience, understanding, and maybe work on my partner's side. All relationships require that, don't they?[/quote']

Yes.

I also want to point out that I have noticed when I've gone in and looked at the profiles of some of the asexuals here' date=' I see that they're questioning. So, that's the same thing my husband is doing. I don't understand that. Don't you know if you want it or not (especially after so many years)?[/quote']

Well' date=' I have never questioned. I knew the second I saw this site that it described me, and that I was home. So maybe I am not the best to answer this. But I think that the questioning generally comes into play because sex is so tied up with emotions and status and social expectations. We are trained from a very young age that love equals sex, and that sex is the ultimate culmination of physical affection/attraction/love. I think people who are not sure if they are asexual or not are trying to sort out all their feelings and expectations and such. Do they desire sex for sex? That is hard to say for a lot of people who psychologically associate it with intimacy.[/quote']

Yes. I can see how that can happen.

I suppose it might be harder for a man to know if he's asexual since men are usually the initiators and women are not normally (someone jump in if they feel otherwise because this is only my point of view and it's limited).

Haha' date=' I always thought the opposite. It is easier for a woman to simply let sex happen and to equate that to love (because women are taught that being sexually attractive is one of their primary defining characteristics), whereas a man has to actually want sex to initiate it, and if he is passive about it other men will beat him to the girl.

But who knows? This sort of thing is like apples and oranges, and varies with the individual.[/quote']

Okay. I can see that. I believe men are under more pressure to perform sexually and at a younger age, too, now that I think about it. So, maybe I should take back what I wrote. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wish I could speak my husband's language' date=' so that, if nothing else, I could just understand him better.[/quote']

Funny' date=' I am a linguist by profession. And this actually kind of reminded me of something I observed in Arabic school. You cannot translate Arabic word for word into English or vice versa. They are simply too different, to the point that most people agree that English and Arabic actually represent two culturally different ways of thinking. You have to take the sense or context of what you want to say and re-express it, oftentimes drawing on cultural meanings or cultural sensitivities that when translated literally make no sense in the other culture. I don't think you can translate asexuality word for word into the sexual language.[/quote']

Interesting. Now that I think about it, I have a Russian friend who talks to me in broken English, but I have learned to understand what she's saying. It's interesting how we connect even though we have a language barrier. With my husband, however, talking about sex is like talking about the weather: He's talking about a sunny day, but I'm talking about a hurricane and we're both talking about the same day. I told him that and he laughed. He doesn't seem to understand.

But you pointed out that a lot of what I say is your husband's point of view. Maybe I express it differently' date=' or word it differently, because I have some experience talking about it?[/quote']

I agree that talking about it helps with self-awareness and awareness of the ways others feel, so maybe you hit upon something. But, maybe that goes back to why I feel that it could be harder for an asexual male to be sure of his asexuality - because he would never discuss it openly. So, he can't put into words what he doesn't talk about, or isn't used to talking about, so that limits his thinking as well.

So hopefully even if you still don't completely understand' date=' and even if we don't quite agree on the details, maybe by discussing this together you have a higher awareness of the asexual perspective.[/quote']

That's what I'm hoping for.

Maybe as time goes on and you talk to more asexuals' date=' you will find things here and there that illuminate your husband's thinking.[/quote']

I hope so. We've spent years together. I don't want to leave him completely alone. I want to be there for him even if it doesn't work out.

Hopefully you will slowly learn to understand his language' date=' even if you never really speak it.[/quote']

Maybe - like with my Russian friend.

And hopefully he realizes that he must also take the time and effort to learn to understand yours.

I don't know if that will ever happen...but' date=' since it takes two to work things out, I might be part of the problem more so than I realize, however. Maybe that's why I think he's making excuses. He really has been through a lot recently.

I want to point out that even if I find someone else and he's also sexual like me, who's to say that we'll be compatible? I have a higher sex drive than I used to - either that or I know what I want more than I used to. I'm not completely sure because I used to try to deny it for various reasons. It could be that I feel so much better than I used to. I was physically sick for a while and didn't know it. I'm more athletic now that I feel better. Unfortunately, now my husband is having health problems.

I hope you find who and what you're looking for. I do believe clarity is the key.

Anyway' date=' Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and thanks again for the discussion.[/quote']

I hope you had a happy Thanksgiving and thanks for the conversation. Maybe we can have more like this. It has been interesting reading all of the posts.

aka Alice (I changed to a more appropriate screen name).

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is a good conversation. Makes me see things clearer. Im still not too overjoyed with my newfound asexual identenity.

M51 i wish I had your positive sight upon "working out a new sexuality with the right one" But I guess we are born with this. I have tried some short and one long relationship with perfect girls i every way. sadly nothing helped.

I have high standards for a potensial partner. It was unlikely to find when I had 99% of population too choose from. now....I wont say I never will, becourse it would be self-forfilling. But I see the chances as rather small.

Steven, I relate too your way of thinking. Straight foreward and fact based. We share the same meanings. Sadly in ths case, the fact is not in my favor. Leaving me just depressed.

As for the asexualsexual couples here. This is really depressing reading, I felt pain just reading about the situation. Too you that actually cope with this situation, I just feel awe. I could never. You should have like a relationship medal or something.

I am abit embarrased that this post will lower the high standard of language showed this tread. But i had to share my sympathy toward the couples.

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