Asexuality and jealousy.

[steve01]

Can someone here tell me why it would matter to an asexual if their spouse had a sex partner outside the marriage? I am not being facetious; I am really trying to understand.

A little background: after 10 years of marriage, my wife and I have finally figured out (with the help of this forum) that she is asexual. We love each other, and want to stay together. But she just doesn't feel sexual attraction, and doesn't want to have sex. She likes cuddling, but any sex act is mildly repulsive to her. I am completely sexual; I need a nornal sex life to feel balanced and happy.

We are trying to work it out. But all our options look pretty bad. We have thought about "compromising," but that really just boils down to us having a little bad sex (trust me, all you asexuals: sex with an asexual is really creepy).

And we don't want a divorce, if we can avoid it.

So what's left? Well, me getting some sex on the side, I guess. I know it wouldn't be ideal. But it seems like the least worst option. But she really objects to the idea. She says it would make her feel sad and inadequate. She would feel jealous of the other woman.

I don't quite understand why she would feel that way. If she has no sexual feelings herself, and doesn't feel sexual attraction to me, what would it matter to her that I had a sexual relationship with another woman? If my sexuality is of no interest to her in our bedroom, why is it of such interest to her elsewhere?

[Hallucigenia]

The way I've heard a lot of asexuals explain it is like so: they understand that, for their sexual partner, sex is something that isn't just a physical act and is fraught with feelings of closeness and intimacy. So even if an asexual person doesn't understand or share those feelings in connection with sex, they can still get worried that the sexual person might get too close to the people they were sleeping with and ditch the asexual person altogether.

Also, even if that doesn't happen, the very fact that the asexual person can't meet one of your basic needs and you have to go elsewhere for them can make them feel sad or jealous or inadequate. Sex is considered a very, very basic part of a romantic relationship in our culture, so it can be frightening to have the person you love focus their sexuality elsewhere, even if you don't want it focused on you. If that makes sense.

Some asexuals are fine having an open relationship, though... I hope things work out for you. It seems that you're at least able to talk about what's going on between the two of you, which is a big step.

[LollipopParade]

The problem is that a sexual relationship with another woman could lead to a personal relationship with another woman. I would think it wouldn't be so bad though if you were getting it from prostitutes, as in multiple women who you never formed any other kind of relationship with. I've heard that that can work, maybe see if she would be ok with that.

[steve01]

Thanks, Hallucigenia. What you said makes a lot of sense. My wife would have every reason to feel threatened by another woman. Even if my original intention was to not get too involved, it would just happen naturally over time

Lollipop, I don't know about the prostitute idea. The whole point here is that I would like to be in a relationship where my sexual partner genuinely desires sex with me. I have always imagined that prostitutes have a lot of contempt for their customers, and very little genuine desire.

[jungler]

you may opt an open relation.

[ily]

The whole point here is that I would like to be in a relationship where my sexual partner genuinely desires sex with me.

I think that right there is probably why your wife is jealous. A lot of people see "emotional affairs" to be just as serious, if not more so, than sexual affairs. If you were getting some kind of emotional fulfillment AND sex from some other person, I guess your wife might wonder why you wouldn't just leave her for that person.

[jr1]

trust has nothing to do with lust and we are all bound to get upset if our trust has been violated

[Tool1989]

I know where she would be coming from....I wouldn't want an open relationship either. Maybe she feels insignificant because she wants it to be just you and her. Sex is basically cuddling to her. I wouldn't want my girl cuddling another man and being emotionally attached to another man. It would make me feel like I wasn't good enough and I wouldn't satisfy her and that there are other peoiple out there better than me. You should be thankful she loves cuddling because some people don't like being touched at all. And having a "little bad sex" shouldn't matter...if she is willing to sacrifice her wants for your needs, it shows how good of a person she is. What are you feeling about this?

[P.V.P.]

If you really need mutual sexual love, then IMO, you probably should break up with your wife. Divorce is hard, yes, but if you need to be loved and desired sexually, and not just to "get off," then you probably will form an emotional attachment to your sex partner, and your asexual wife will be understandably jealous because you have found *emotional* intimacy elsewhere, and this other person was able to "love you better" by expressing love via meaningful sex.

There may not be any way around this one. She cannot fulfill your need for sexual love, and it sounds like you cannot be fulfilled sexually without the sex being loving.

[steve01]

You should be thankful she loves cuddling because some people don't like being touched at all.

For a sexual person, cuddling is no substitute for a normal sexual relationship. In fact, being physically close to her revs up my sex drive. So cuddling leads to even more frustration for me.

And having a "little bad sex" shouldn't matter...if she is willing to sacrifice her wants for your needs, it shows how good of a person she is. What are you feeling about this?

I have to tell you this: it is truly awful to experience your "sexual partner" not enjoying sex with you. A "little bad sex" is very corrosive to a sexual person.

As for her being willing to "sacrifice," here's how I feel about that: I am a typical sexual person. I don't get off on anyone making sexual sacrifices for me. I get off on the warm MUTUAL expression of sexuality with a woman. It's a huge turn off for me that my wife has to "hold her nose" in order to have sex with me. There is nothing attractive or cute or heartwarming about it. It's heartbreaking, really.

[M51]

I think Hallu answered very well.

A lot of it is social conditioning. A lot of it is fear that you will become more attached to the sexual partner. A lot of it is plain jealousy of your time and affection.

I personally wouldn't mind an open relationship. In fact, if I were in a relationship with a sexual person, I would almost prefer it to be open than to have to wonder how unhappy he is, or if he is sleeping around anyways and then lying to me about it.

BUT I would prefer that his sexual relationships be as casual as possible. I can imagine him having a single sex-buddy and it being okay so long as all three of us knew that he was romantically and socially committed to me, but...imagining that and it actually happening are two different things. That would be a hell of a delicate balance to strike. One idea I've had is that if he traveled a lot, he could be free to pursue sex during his travels, because the combination of distance and already being committed to me should be enough to prevent him from getting too involved with the Other.

I think I actually understand why a prostitute would not work for you. A prostitute will sleep with anything. You want someone who wants you. I get that, and I wouldn't feel threatened by that. Same reason men go to bars and troll for women, and will spend lots of money buying them drinks. Sure, maybe they could get a prostitute for the same prices as those drinks and a lot less time, but it is the knowledge that someone wants you that they are after.

Plus I would be more afraid of disease if my partner used prostitutes. It would make me less likely to give him the occasional sex that I am capable of.

[Olivier]

As for her being willing to "sacrifice," here's how I feel about that: I am a typical sexual person. I don't get off on anyone making sexual sacrifices for me. I get off on the warm MUTUAL expression of sexuality with a woman. It's a huge turn off for me that my wife has to "hold her nose" in order to have sex with me. There is nothing attractive or cute or heartwarming about it. It's heartbreaking, really.

Steve, I know exactly how you feel. My wife and I are just emerging from a really tough period that stemmed from me telling her pretty much what you just wrote, and her telling me that if I was truly heartbroken, then perhaps our marriage was over.

Nevertheless, we're not quitters, and we've talked some more, and (importantly) then spent some time not talking about it, and just feeling good about the non-sexual parts of our relationship, which are strong and happy. My wife has gone back to taking a genuine interest in doing things that I like, and ditching the "holding the nose" attitude that was so hurtful to me, and I've gone back to being thankful for what I get instead of focusing on what I'm missing.

It's not perfect for either of us, but since we want different things it's never going to be. But it is good, and certainly WAY better than it was.

My advice is that you should appreciate the sacrifices your wife makes if they are motivated by her love for you, and are genuine attempts to compromise. On the other hand you need to let her know that if she acts like she's bitter about making those sacrifices, then that's a cause of real heartache.

[steve01]

My advice is that you should appreciate the sacrifices your wife makes if they are motivated by her love for you, and are genuine attempts to compromise.

Thanks, Olivier, it really helps to hear from someone in similar circumstances. Can you tell me more about how one goes about appreciating those sacrifices? Right now, I'm still held up on the idea that I don't want her to make any sexual sacrifices. All I can think about is how she must feel during sex, and I figure I wouldn't like to be subjected to that if I were her. I can't really even think about having sex with her anymore, so long as I know it's not enjoyable for her. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Olivier]

My advice is that you should appreciate the sacrifices your wife makes if they are motivated by her love for you, and are genuine attempts to compromise.

Thanks, Olivier, it really helps to hear from someone in similar circumstances. Can you tell me more about how one goes about appreciating those sacrifices? Right now, I'm still held up on the idea that I don't want her to make any sexual sacrifices. All I can think about is how she must feel during sex, and I figure I wouldn't like to be subjected to that if I were her. I can't really even think about having sex with her anymore, so long as I know it's not enjoyable for her. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Well you and your wife want different things, so either someone needs to change what they want, or you need to compromise.

I don't recommend expecting either of you to change to the extent needed. Your wife is as unlikely to wake up one morning with a raging libido as you are to suddenly become asexual.

So that leaves compromise. You say you are uncomfortable with the thought that your wife is making sacrifices, and yet I presume that you are making plenty of sacrifices yourself, motivated by what you feel for your wife. How is that so different?

It's unreasonable to want compromise, but then not be happy with the compromise because it isn't what you (or your wife) want. By definition, it isn't going to be.

You also say that your wife is mildly repulsed by sex. That makes things more tricky. My wife is just indifferent, so it's less of a sacrifice in some respects. Having said that it's all a bit of a grey area, and there have been times when my wife has felt somewhat repulsed by sex, and those have been our most difficult times. But I think a lot of that repulsion came from the emotional baggage came with sex being "the thing that's wrecking an otherwise wonderful marriage" as she once said to me.

Nevertheless, we have found compromises. My wife says that she is far happier having sex for my benefit, and seeing that it makes me happy, than she is not having sex and seeing me miserable and frustrated. In that sense she doesn't see it as a sacrifice, just a contribution to making our relationship work. Given her total lack of interest in sex, I really appreciate that contribution.

There's only a very fine line between "I'm only doing this because your happiness is important to me" and "I'm only doing this because when I don't you're impossible to live with" but making that distinction has been hugely helpful to us, and has turned bad sex back into good sex.

My wife was able to concede that her "holding the nose" attitude wasn't consistent with her saying "I'm doing this to please you", as it clearly upset me. So she changed her attitude to "if I'm only doing this for your benefit, I'll do things that you really like, just not very often, as I don't like them as much as you do". I can live with that.

For my part, I make a real effort to avoid things my wife doesn't like during sex, and to make sure the 99.9% of time we're not having sex is truly sex-free and non-pressuring.

Another thing that's worked for us is letting my wife choose when we have sex and what we do. There are times she really feels like she can't, and rather than have me try to initiate things during those times and get rejected, she picks the times that are better for her, and tries not to let it go too long between times.

Anyway, I hope there's something helpful in all that rambling. Every relationship is different, and while we don't have the perfect answer either, that's some of what's worked for us.

[Nameless]

If I was in a relationship with a sexual I actually wouldn't have any problem with him sleeping with other people.

[complications]

my mother's friend is a retired doctor whose wife had serious fertility problems and yet they both wanted children; he brought another woman into the relationship and now the three adults live together with two children, and the children regard both women as their mother. it worked out because the wife and biological mother know eachother and are friends, and this way both women see how much affection he gives to the other so they don't feel like they are being lied to or fear losing him.

'compromising' to have bad sex with a lover can be extremely damaging; the user cerberus put it well on another thread: (on asexual people forcing themselves to sex) '[...]At its best it's meaningless, at worst it can feel like a form of rape. For women without sexual attraction or a means to be sexually attracted, sex can be very dangerous, [and] painful[...]'

if you have been married for so long I'm sure she does not resent you over sex, but please tread carefully.

[steve01]

Thanks for that explanation, Olivier. I think I understand better now how you are dealing with this.

You say you are uncomfortable with the thought that your wife is making sacrifices, and yet I presume that you are making plenty of sacrifices yourself, motivated by what you feel for your wife. How is that so different?

Yes, it's true we have both been making sacrifices. I suppose I have been thinking that it's different for her, because it's one thing for me to be deprived of the mutual sex I need, but quite another thing for her to be asked to perform very intimate acts that she doesn't like. For example, I could tolerate being underfed and hungry for a long time, but I couldn't tolerate being required to eat all my meals from someone's armpit.

Maybe I'm just being too analytical about this. Maybe I'm trying too hard to put myself in her shoes.

I wish I really knew what it felt like for her to have sex. Does it feel similar to what I would feel like if I were asked to perform a homosexual sex act? I just couldn't do that, unless a gun were pointed at me. Does it merely feel odd, or mildly uncomfortable? Maybe someone here can enlighten me.

[Lucy Locket]

My reasons:

1. I believe sex outside marriage is wrong, especially adultery (if I were married to a sexual) and casual sex (if we weren't married).

2. It's disrespectful to me, the asexual. I won't put up with someone who insists they JUST CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT SEX and that their selfish, pathetic needs are SO much more important than mine that they feel free to swan off with someone else just because I'm not happy to give in.

3. People would talk about me and laugh at me behind my back as the woman whose boyfriend/husband cheats on her because she's "frigid" or some other such vile nonsense

4. What reason would my other half have to stick around if they can find someone else who is not only happy to have sex with them but does all the other stuff I do as well?

This is why I say a long term relationship with a sexual is the only reason I would think about having sex.

[Olivier]

My reasons:

1. I believe sex outside marriage is wrong, especially adultery (if I were married to a sexual) and casual sex (if we weren't married).

2. It's disrespectful to me, the asexual. I won't put up with someone who insists they JUST CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT SEX and that their selfish, pathetic needs are SO much more important than mine that they feel free to swan off with someone else just because I'm not happy to give in.

3. People would talk about me and laugh at me behind my back as the woman whose boyfriend/husband cheats on her because she's "frigid" or some other such vile nonsense

4. What reason would my other half have to stick around if they can find someone else who is not only happy to have sex with them but does all the other stuff I do as well?

This is why I say a long term relationship with a sexual is the only reason I would think about having sex.

Lucy, I basically agree with you on 1, 3, and 4.

But read what you've written in 2 over again, except imagine it was the other way around: a sexual abusing an asexual for JUST NOT BEING ABLE TO LIVE WITH SEX, and labeling the asexual's needs pathetic and selfish. It's not pretty, and you should think twice before calling anyone else disrespectful.

[Lucy Locket]

True ... but then again, the asexual isn't cheating on the sexual partner, nor are they risking godawful diseases and what else have you.

[Tool1989]

Lucy....completely agreed. Even if an asexual is willing to have sex, their sexual partner must not expect it from them. And some people can't live without sex and some people can't live without cuddles....I can't live without cuddles :P.

[steve01]

2. It's disrespectful to me, the asexual. I won't put up with someone who insists they JUST CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT SEX and that their selfish, pathetic needs are SO much more important than mine that they feel free to swan off with someone else just because I'm not happy to give in.

Lucy, I'm afraid that point of view is going to cause a lot of pain for you, and for any sexual people you try to have a relationship with. When 99% of the world is sexual, it's pretty difficult to argue that there is something wrong with needing sex. Let's face it, sexual sexuality is the normal and healthy. There is nothing illegitimate about it

Believe me, when you tell sexuals that their sexual needs are "selfish" or "pathetic," they will just laugh. They may even assume that you are subconsciously feeling sad and angry about missing out on sexuality.

By the way, there is nothing "disrepectful" about asking an asexual spouse if she would consent to an open marriage.

And please keep in mind that most sexuals probably don't think their sexual needs are "so much more important" than yours. Nor do they think that your inability to meet their needs in a marriage would automatically give them the right to sneak around behind your back to get sex elsewhere. But many of us think that when we discover that our spouse is asexual, it gives us the right to ask our spouse whether they would consent to an open marriage.

4. What reason would my other half have to stick around if they can find someone else who is not only happy to have sex with them but does all the other stuff I do as well?

This is why I say a long term relationship with a sexual is the only reason I would think about having sex.

Please think long and hard before you get into a long-term relationship with a sexual, Lucy. For the reasons you mentioned above ("what reason would they have to stick around" if you can't have a mutual sexual relationship with them) it is extremely unlikely to work.

I know this may be hard to accept, but asexuals really have a responsibility to avoid getting involved in relationships that they know will not meet the needs of either party. For the most part, asexuals just have to marry one another.

[Engaged]

I am very sexual and my bf is not. Still, I have no problem understanding why he would not want me to be sexual with another man.

There is way more to a relationship than just sex.

And all sexual men should know that you can't have a woman F#ck Buddy without her becoming emotionally attached.

That's just what we women do.

[steve01]

I am very sexual and my bf is not. Still, I have no problem understanding why he would not want me to be sexual with another man.

How do you meet your sexual needs, then?

[Engaged]

How do you meet your sexual needs, then?

I am on the twice a month real sex plus a lot of self love in between. :oops:

And I am here searching for a better solution.

Regardless, cheating is not an option. Better to just move on if I can't take the heat.

[Lucy Locket]

Believe me, when you tell sexuals that their sexual needs are "selfish" or "pathetic," they will just laugh.

Yeah, I get plenty of that on these boards. I consider myself more of an antisexual than an asexual, actually. Don't worry, there aren't too many others like me at AVEN. Most other asexuals here seem to be quite moderate in their views.

They may even assume that you are subconsciously feeling sad and angry about missing out on sexuality.

That's what my aunt says. She is a psychologist, and I wish she'd keep her nose out.

By the way, there is nothing "disrepectful" about asking an asexual spouse if she would consent to an open marriage.

Asking, no. Assuming the marriage is automatically open without so much as a "by your leave", yes. Not all sexuals would do that, but some would.

Please think long and hard before you get into a long-term relationship with a sexual, Lucy. For the reasons you mentioned above ("what reason would they have to stick around" if you can't have a mutual sexual relationship with them) it is extremely unlikely to work.

Ouch. So - sexuals would willingly throw over a nice relationship for a less pleasant one where they'd get sex? No offence, but that is awfully shallow and tasteless.

As it happens, I'm in a relationship with a sexual now. We are not at the "exclusive" stage, so perhaps I'd better let him down gently. Shame. I think I'm kind of in love with him already.

I know this may be hard to accept, but asexuals really have a responsibility to avoid getting involved in relationships that they know will not meet the needs of either party. For the most part, asexuals just have to marry one another.

Why is it our responsibility? Because most other people are sexual? :?

[Eddie7]

To be honest, this is pretty much why I'm not really interested in a new relationship with a sexual person. If they are as adament about wanting sex as I am about not wanting it, it's probably not going to end well.

That said, everyone needs to find what works for them. I personally find the idea of the sexual in the relationship going off and getting sex elsewhere rather distasteful. That isn't to say I'm opposed to the idea if both parties are happy with the arrangement, just that it wouldn't work for me, even if I couldn't particularly rationalise it.

As for responsibility, it's not down to the asexual any more than the sexual. Both parties should know exactly what they are getting into reasonably early into the relationship and work out what they want to do from there.

Which I accept leaves things rather awkward for people like you, Steve, if your wifes asexuality is a recent discovery. I'm not really sure what you can do in this sort of situation, but I can understand your wife not wanting you to go elsewhere for sex. Unfortunately you're just going to have to figure out how you can both get what you need, even if that means the rather more unfortunate options.

[steve01]

Please think long and hard before you get into a long-term relationship with a sexual, Lucy. For the reasons you mentioned above ("what reason would they have to stick around" if you can't have a mutual sexual relationship with them) it is extremely unlikely to work.

Ouch. So - sexuals would willingly throw over a nice relationship for a less pleasant one where they'd get sex? No offence, but that is awfully shallow and tasteless.

There's nothing shallow (or tasteless) about sexuals making sound choices to meet our legitimate needs. We do not have to forego pleasantness (or anything else) in order to have a mutual, loving sexual relationship, since there are plenty of pleasant sexuals around. All we have to do is choose a sexual mate, and keep our asexual friends as just friends.

As it happens, I'm in a relationship with a sexual now. We are not at the "exclusive" stage, so perhaps I'd better let him down gently. Shame. I think I'm kind of in love with him already.

"Exclusivity" is where the problem starts. The relationship could be wonderful, until he commits himself to an sexually exclusive relationship with you. Then he will find out what it's like to not have his needs met, and you will find out what it's like to live with someone who is hopelessly sexually frustrated.

I know this may be hard to accept, but asexuals really have a responsibility to avoid getting involved in relationships that they know will not meet the needs of either party. For the most part, asexuals just have to marry one another.

Why is it our responsibility? Because most other people are sexual? :?

It's not only your responsibility, of course. Your potential partner has responsibility too. But keep in mind that asexuals are very rare, and asexuality is a little-known concept. Very few sexuals have any experience with it, or have even heard of it. Asexuality is subtle, and somewhat counterintuitive, so even those sexuals who have heard of it probably don't fully understand it. Asexuals know there is no realistic possibility that they can meet a sexual's needs. A truly honest and mature asexual would see that they are in a far better position than most sexuals to understand all this. They would avoid exclusivity committments with sexuals, and avoid the emotional devastation that would likely result.

[Lucy Locket]

"Exclusivity" is where the problem starts. The relationship could be wonderful, until he commits himself to an sexually exclusive relationship with you. Then he will find out what it's like to not have his needs met, and you will find out what it's like to live with someone who is hopelessly sexually frustrated.

Yeech. :( The question hasn't come up yet, but then neither have I mentioned asexuality to him. I don't think I will, either. I'd look like a slag if I gave in as soon as he asked, but give it time and I'll have to. Even if I don't say anything, would he know?

Asexuality is subtle, and somewhat counterintuitive, so even those sexuals who have heard of it probably don't fully understand it. And since asexuals know there is no realistic possibility that they can meet a sexual's needs, why agree to the exclusivity in the first place? Would you board a plane that has an overwhelming chance of crashing in midflght?

"Counterintuitive" in what way, sorry?

*now picturing weird, asexual version of Snakes on a Plane*

[Hallucigenia]

*now picturing weird, asexual version of Snakes on a Plane*

I've had it with these m-----f---ing antisexuals in my m-----f---ing thread! :lol: