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Does Your Body Betray You?

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AliceInWonderland
That's an interesting article, Alice, and no, I'm not offended. I would quibble with the person's conclusions in the article, however. He says that the male lack of arousal to other males "proves" that they are homophobic - but what evidence supports that? Has he run the males and females separately through tests that would measure homophobia, such as an Implicit Association Test? Has he gone into other cultures that are less homophobic (since he describes this as a Western thing) and found that men do get aroused by other men in these cultures? Or is he just assuming it because it's an explanation that fits in with his worldview?

Yes, it is interesting. I just read the first page. Just me, but I have never had a desire to date or kiss my female friends that I can remember. However, I do see how friends can become lovers. I have felt "at home" enough with a male friend or two that I believe more than just friendship can happen. However, I do think I experience some sort of sexual arousal at times with women's body parts, but I wouldn't want to have sex with those women - at least, not that I'm aware. I think that perhaps, the arousal comes from wanting to have a figure like that, but I could be wrong. I think I could be jealous, too. :?

I agree with you about your questioning of the male's homophobia. I will say that I believe misinformation is better than no information. If someone tells you something, and you're skeptical (or not), you can always find out more about it through asking questions and research. If there's no info., you don't even know to ask - or at least, that's the way I am. Misinfo. peeks curiousity, no info. doesn't do anything

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CopyFox

No, no; that's quite interesting to hear. It would make a lot of sense. I think I can lean toward the "women sympathizing" thing since the same thing happens to women watching romance movies: they're not sighing 'cause they want the girl, they're sighing 'cause they want to be treated like that by a guy (usually).

Yes. This is new to me. I mean I know I feel something sometimes whenever I see another female with certain attributes that are bigger and better than mine (I suppose that's the sexual in me that I feel something in the first place), but I never related it to possible feelings of empathy - that if I had those, for instance, I'd feel even more aroused when being touched by a man in that area.

I think it's possible that in situations where you're the "huntee" (as stated above, women are) and you choose to make the man the initiator (my case, historically) you don't learn as much about it and usually don't give yourself the opportunity to become more self-aware. You never dig deeper to find out the inner workings of it (sex/asex and aromance/romance) because you're relying on someone else, the hunter, to do it for you. An analogy might be if you have a cook who always cooks for you, that's nice, but you never learn how to do it yourself, so you're not as knowledgeable about it.

I think I need an attitude adjustment. I shouldn't always look at the male as the initiator, necessarily. I need to explore - I'm not talking about promisciouity necessarily, but rather, being more aware of what's going on, researching it better, not just on an educational level, but on a personal level too. Knowing where I stand and what I want in a relationship. This site has helped me to some extent.

Glad to hear it; that is what the site's intended for, after all. Good luck with your knowledge-seeking.

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Wolf X Omega

I Absolutelly hate these feelings, whenever friends of mine watch porn of soft porn on the Teevee I get "What the friggin seven circles of hell, can't we just watch something normal, like cartoons or something" but down there, it just... you know, I hate my body

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bbctv

found some of the discussions here on a variety of topics interesting, though i doubt we will ever get real, unbiased answers on a variety of things; i very carefully watch the angle on any research involving sexuality, and the fact that it's something with a huge degree of variation across individuals, time and culture (and that accurate information is often absent or wasn't well-compiled.)

but as for the general topic, i DID actually get sexually aroused; it was owing to some woman at an electronics store who'd obviously not showered in a few days- it was horribly embarrassing, felt awful and i went hope asap and got drunk. i dunno, i guess somehow how she smelled made my body respond, and somehow i actually DID like how she smelled, but then here i am with, well, i'd rather not go into it and it felt very, very bad. (i only ever narrated this event to some of my most trusted friends, but the idea that it was olfactory rather than visual or anything that got me seems rather odd. at least both of them sympathised that if i said it felt bad, it was; none of them were dolts who said i should have "gone for it" or anything. it was a "go home and slam as much carlo rossi sangria as you can" happening.)

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John Bayko

I think "betrayal" implies more of a conscious act. If you're hungry and see a piece of cake, your mouth could start to water and your stomache might rumble, even if you don't want to eat it just then because it's too close to supper, or maybe it has coconut and you don't like that. That's not a betrayal, it's just how your body works.

Similarly, if your body responds to certain sights or situations or sensations or smells by getting ready for sex, that's just how it works - your body never expected to end up with an asexual mind living in its brain, did it?

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P.V.P.

I do experience that thing described where females get turned on by almost anything remotely related to sex or courtship (including, in my case, animal mating, some provocatively dressed women, and even many threads on AVEN)...and I am actually aware of it. Maybe this is because I'm not quite asexual, but I don't see it as my body betraying me. In fact, most of the time I enjoy the arousal, oftentimes even if the thing that aroused me is somewhat taboo or unusual (although, sad to say, I'm homophobic enough that the thought of my possibly being gay has made me uneasy about being turned on by scantily clad female bodies). Apparently, though, sexual-theme-based arousal - including being turned on by scantily clad women, as they are a cultural symbol of sex - is normal for women of all orientations, at least in the US.

I'm not sure whether to believe the biological theory or the cultural shaping theory. If the biological theory is true...well...even when I'm turned on, having a foreign object "up there" can hurt for me. Maybe it could reduce the damage, but it probably wouldn't outright prevent it except in the most loosely wound women. Also, I don't really care for the political implications of the notion that women are specifically hard-wired to be receptive to rape. Then someone might be able to say, "See, science proves that women are born nymphos. They never really don't want it. They're made to be raped."

Maybe, rather than women having adapted to rape, men have adapted to the fact that some women are not likely to provide them with fertile offspring, so nature has made them picky about looks so that they don't waste their sexual energy on women who are biologically unproductive. (Perhaps if they mate less often, men will be more fertile in the instances they do mate. Supposedly there is a biological "absence makes the heart grow fonder" effect for males who have been separated from their regular sexual partners for a few days, where the male's desire and fertility are increased after the separation period, possibly to compete with any other males the woman might have mated with during that time.) If you think about it, the way "stereotypical" men choose their mates is very similar to the way female birds of polygynous bird species choose their mates: they only go for the finest in visual indicators of sexual prowess, and ignore the rest. And women may not have needed to evolve this pickiness because their mental and social pickiness was already well-developed, or because, since they can only have a few kids throughout their lifetimes and have acidic reproductive tracts that limit fertility, they need to be open to the best genes and most fertile male partners wherever they may come from. You can make up an evolutionary explanation for just about anything.

And, of course, cultural shaping could have to do with it as well.

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CopyFox
If you think about it, the way "stereotypical" men choose their mates is very similar to the way female birds of polygynous bird species choose their mates: they only go for the finest in visual indicators of sexual prowess, and ignore the rest.

Hm, well, I think it has something to do with the woman's degree of sociality. What I mean is, if there's a really pretty woman who isn't very social, doesn't talk much even when talked to, doesn't really smile much, she's not going to get much attention or chasers. However, if there was a woman less pretty, but very outgoing and easy to get along with and sociable, I think men will take to her better. I've seen this acted out in real life situations, though, of course, the definition of "pretty" is relative. Still, I think that the way a woman acts affects how much a man will see her by a large amount.

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AliceInWonderland
....as for the general topic, i DID actually get sexually aroused; it was owing to some woman at an electronics store who'd obviously not showered in a few days- it was horribly embarrassing, felt awful and i went hope asap and got drunk. i dunno, i guess somehow how she smelled made my body respond, and somehow i actually DID like how she smelled, but then here i am with, well, i'd rather not go into it and it felt very, very bad. (i only ever narrated this event to some of my most trusted friends, but the idea that it was olfactory rather than visual or anything that got me seems rather odd...

Maybe it's pheromones...see the topic, "Asexuality and Jealousy." in this part of the site.

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noise
If you think about it, the way "stereotypical" men choose their mates is very similar to the way female birds of polygynous bird species choose their mates: they only go for the finest in visual indicators of sexual prowess, and ignore the rest.

Hm, well, I think it has something to do with the woman's degree of sociality. What I mean is, if there's a really pretty woman who isn't very social, doesn't talk much even when talked to, doesn't really smile much, she's not going to get much attention or chasers.

lol, that is totally, TOTALLY untrue. i pretty much don't talk to anyone i don't already know and don't smile much at all. still, i have guys coming out of the woodwork asking for my number. idgi

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AliceInWonderland
I do experience that thing described where females get turned on by almost anything remotely related to sex or courtship (including, in my case, animal mating, some provocatively dressed women, and even many threads on AVEN)...and I am actually aware of it. Maybe this is because I'm not quite asexual, but I don't see it as my body betraying me. In fact, most of the time I enjoy the arousal, oftentimes even if the thing that aroused me is somewhat taboo or unusual (although, sad to say, I'm homophobic enough that the thought of my possibly being gay has made me uneasy about being turned on by scantily clad female bodies). Apparently, though, sexual-theme-based arousal - including being turned on by scantily clad women, as they are a cultural symbol of sex - is normal for women of all orientations, at least in the US.

Yes. That's what I was trying to say but couldn't or didn't want to somehow.

I'm not sure whether to believe the biological theory or the cultural shaping theory...Also, I don't really care for the political implications of the notion that women are specifically hard-wired to be receptive to rape.

I agree that I don't agree too, but whether or not it's true? I don't know really. Am I just disagreeing because I don't want it to be true, or is my disagreement valid?

I think a possible explanation is that women don't have to learn to turn off that part of themselves at will like men do (since you can tell with men-men, please correct me if I'm wrong), so women have nothing to hide since one cannot tell in a physical sense when women are turned on unless it's really obvious like a seductive look or something and it's not such a social embarrassment to them when they are, so in that way, it could also be possible that they could be turned on and not know it themselves like it says above. Also, I have little experience with the men and their learning to control/turn off that part of themselves, so if anyone disagrees, please feel free to jump in and correct or add to this.

Then someone might be able to say, "See, science proves that women are born nymphos. They never really don't want it. They're made to be raped."

I didn't look at it that way, but I'm only one opinion. I saw it as appearing subservient to men and proof that we're fickle and don't know what we want. Of course, I don't believe we don't know what we want. Fickle is a matter of opinion though. On the other hand, it's possible that I'm wrong, the study isn't biased and it is true.

Maybe, rather than women having adapted to rape, men have adapted to the fact that some women are not likely to provide them with fertile offspring, so nature has made them picky about looks so that they don't waste their sexual energy on women who are biologically unproductive. (Perhaps if they mate less often, men will be more fertile in the instances they do mate. Supposedly there is a biological "absence makes the heart grow fonder" effect for males who have been separated from their regular sexual partners for a few days, where the male's desire and fertility are increased after the separation period, possibly to compete with any other males the woman might have mated with during that time.) If you think about it, the way "stereotypical" men choose their mates is very similar to the way female birds of polygynous bird species choose their mates: they only go for the finest in visual indicators of sexual prowess, and ignore the rest. And women may not have needed to evolve this pickiness because their mental and social pickiness was already well-developed, or because, since they can only have a few kids throughout their lifetimes and have acidic reproductive tracts that limit fertility, they need to be open to the best genes and most fertile male partners wherever they may come from.

This part looks interesting, but I'm going to have to come back and re-read it. I'm not sure I completely understand it - not your fault. I think it's over my head.

You can make up an evolutionary explanation for just about anything.

I wanted to say this, but I couldn't think of how to word it. I have often thought this when watching those nature programs on TV.

If you think about it, the way "stereotypical" men choose their mates is very similar to the way female birds of polygynous bird species choose their mates: they only go for the finest in visual indicators of sexual prowess, and ignore the rest.

Hm, well, I think it has something to do with the woman's degree of sociality. What I mean is, if there's a really pretty woman who isn't very social, doesn't talk much even when talked to, doesn't really smile much, she's not going to get much attention or chasers.

lol, that is totally, TOTALLY untrue. i pretty much don't talk to anyone i don't already know and don't smile much at all. still, i have guys coming out of the woodwork asking for my number. idgi

Sometimes truth is relative. I would guess that it depends on what a particular man or group of men find attractive - outgoing, appearing aloof or other? I do think that they do go after whomever is considered most "attractive" in their minds - whatever "attractive" means to whom.

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Chiaroscuro
I would guess that it depends on what a particular man or group of men find attractive - outgoing, appearing aloof or other? I do think that they do go after whomever is considered most "attractive" in their minds - whatever "attractive" means to whom.

I haven't backed up and read the whole thread, so perhaps this has been addressed, but isn't appearance important to women when they're deciding who they want to be with? It sure is to my wife and every other woman I've known.

I agree that men, as a rule, are more aroused sexually by visual things, but in terms of being interested in someone, it seems to me that attractiveness cuts across gender lines.

-Chiaroscuro

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AliceInWonderland
I do experience that thing described where females get turned on by almost anything remotely related to sex or courtship (including' date=' in my case' date=' animal mating, some provocatively dressed women, and even many threads on AVEN)...and I am actually aware of it. Maybe this is because I'm not quite asexual, but I don't see it as my body betraying me. In fact, most of the time I enjoy the arousal, oftentimes even if the thing that aroused me is somewhat taboo or unusual (although, sad to say, I'm homophobic enough that the thought of my possibly being gay has made me uneasy about being turned on by scantily clad female bodies). Apparently, though, sexual-theme-based arousal - including being turned on by scantily clad women, as they are a cultural symbol of sex - is normal for women of all orientations, at least in the US.[/quote'']

Yes. That's what I was trying to say but couldn't or didn't want to somehow.

Well, except for the asexual part. I'm sexual. Sorry, but the rest sounds true for me.

I agree that men' date=' as a rule, are more aroused [i']sexually[/i] by visual things, but in terms of being interested in someone, it seems to me that attractiveness cuts across gender lines.

-Chiaroscuro

I agree.

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AliceInWonderland
I do experience that thing described where females get turned on by almost anything remotely related to sex or courtship (including' date=' in my case' date=' animal mating, some provocatively dressed women, and even many threads on AVEN)...and I am actually aware of it. Maybe this is because I'm not quite asexual, but I don't see it as my body betraying me. In fact, most of the time I enjoy the arousal, oftentimes even if the thing that aroused me is somewhat taboo or unusual (although, sad to say, I'm homophobic enough that the thought of my possibly being gay has made me uneasy about being turned on by scantily clad female bodies). Apparently, though, sexual-theme-based arousal - including being turned on by scantily clad women, as they are a cultural symbol of sex - is normal for women of all orientations, at least in the US.[/quote'']

Yes. That's what I was trying to say but couldn't or didn't want to somehow.

Well, except for the asexual part. I'm sexual. Sorry. The rest sounds true for me.

I agree that men' date=' as a rule, are more aroused [i']sexually[/i] by visual things, but in terms of being interested in someone, it seems to me that attractiveness cuts across gender lines.

-Chiaroscuro

I agree.

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CopyFox
If you think about it, the way "stereotypical" men choose their mates is very similar to the way female birds of polygynous bird species choose their mates: they only go for the finest in visual indicators of sexual prowess, and ignore the rest.

Hm, well, I think it has something to do with the woman's degree of sociality. What I mean is, if there's a really pretty woman who isn't very social, doesn't talk much even when talked to, doesn't really smile much, she's not going to get much attention or chasers.

lol, that is totally, TOTALLY untrue. i pretty much don't talk to anyone i don't already know and don't smile much at all. still, i have guys coming out of the woodwork asking for my number. idgi

Don't take this the wrong way, but what kind of clothes do you wear?

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P.V.P.
Well, except for the asexual part. I'm sexual. Sorry. The rest sounds true for me.

Actually, I consider myself sexual as well - I wrote "not quite asexual."

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............
Again, the why of it remains a mystery. Dr. Chivers and others have hypothesized that the mechanism is protective. Women are ever in danger of being raped, they said, and by automatically lubricating at the mere hint of sex, they may avoid damage during forced intercourse to that evolutionarily all-important reproductive tract.

Women are not "ever in danger of being raped". It is pathetic to go through your life being afraid of men. I wonder if this response developed that way because of social whatsits, or if cavewomen got the same thing?

I was under the impression that the comment was more directed to evolutionary origins (seeing as, before society and law were established, it was probably a greater risk).

And, it might just be left over, despite the fact that it isn't as relevant any more.

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Lucy Locket

I have found out since that post that not only does my body not betray me, it won't cooperate even when sex is on the cards.

Vaseline (or rather that stuff that doesn't erode latex condoms), my good old friend.

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Guest

i've a problem referring to myself as asexual. i am a sexual person. my body works and occassionally it takes me places. that said, it's just for me. i've no desire to have it partnered.

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CopyFox
i've a problem referring to myself as asexual. i am a sexual person. my body works and occassionally it takes me places. that said, it's just for me. i've no desire to have it partnered.

I'm fairly certain that still throws you into the asexual realm. Asexual, here being defined as "a person who does not experience sexual attraction [to others]" means, in essence, no desire for physical coupling.

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RandomDent

I heard it was called auto-sexual if you still had sexual desires, but if they weren't caused by or influenced by the thoughts or touch of other people. I don't like the sound of the word 'auto-sexual' though. It sounds narcissistic.

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Lorus

Don't worry about it, is my advice. It doesn't make you sexual or bad, it is just a normal bodily reaction. It used to make me feel guilty too, when I was asexual, but it should not have. Just tell yourself that you are asexual, and even if you weren't, they is nothing wrong with enjoying sex.

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andrew_w
I heard it was called auto-sexual if you still had sexual desires, but if they weren't caused by or influenced by the thoughts or touch of other people. I don't like the sound of the word 'auto-sexual' though. It sounds narcissistic.

I would only consider someone autosexual if they were sexually attracted to themself. I just say "asexual with drive" to refer to an asexual with a sex drive.

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Apollonian
I would only consider someone autosexual if they were sexually attracted to themself.

That actually is what an autosexual is.

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genwiz314
Besides, there are asexuals who act on their feelings of arousal - it's called masturbating.

The real difference between asexuals and sexuals is that, while asexuals may get physically turned on, sexuals experience mental sexual attractions that cause them to desire actual sexual experiences. Asexuals, needless to say, don't do that.

I second, third, and twenty-third this motion.

Don't worry about it, is my advice. It doesn't make you sexual or bad, it is just a normal bodily reaction. It used to make me feel guilty too, when I was asexual, but it should not have. Just tell yourself that you are asexual, and even if you weren't, they is nothing wrong with enjoying sex.

Oh yes, and this one, too.

Well said!

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Loki

No my body's totally in tune with my mindset. It doesnt betray me in those type of situtations.

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Revenge of Rain
I think a possible explanation is that women don't have to learn to turn off that part of themselves at will like men do (since you can tell with men-men, please correct me if I'm wrong), so women have nothing to hide since one cannot tell in a physical sense when women are turned on unless it's really obvious like a seductive look or something and it's not such a social embarrassment to them when they are, so in that way, it could also be possible that they could be turned on and not know it themselves like it says above. Also, I have little experience with the men and their learning to control/turn off that part of themselves, so if anyone disagrees, please feel free to jump in and correct or add to this.

I think this is true and very important. I've often thought that constantly having to worry about this is behind a lot of male behaviour, directly or indirectly.

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CierraJo

I hate this kind of thing too. Whenever I have sex my b/f tells me that I am turned on b/c I am "wet" and that I just don't want to enjoy sex. But it's not true. I can't tell if I am wet and I dont know how or why it happens. But no matter, I still hate sex and don't want any of it. It's not just my stubborness, it is how I actually FEEL. It does seem like my body is betraying me.

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tulip
I hate this kind of thing too. Whenever I have sex my b/f tells me that I am turned on b/c I am "wet" and that I just don't want to enjoy sex. But it's not true. I can't tell if I am wet and I dont know how or why it happens. But no matter, I still hate sex and don't want any of it. It's not just my stubborness, it is how I actually FEEL. It does seem like my body is betraying me.

Ditto. I really wish guys would understand this. I've also been told I'm just being stubborn, that I just don't want to like it, and that my BODY is ready for sex... as if that's all that matters. Grr.

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NexusXavier

I used to have that, sickend me aswell. Now, I'm on paxil for OCD and anxiety and two main side effects are loss of libido (wow, I've gone from zero to zero.) and erectile disfunction. It's now extreamly unlikely for such a situation to occur for me now. Hooray!

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kt8
I read recently that women almost always become wet when present with sexual material, whether or not they are actually aroused. This is believed to be a defense mechanism against rape. I suppose this doesn't really help men that much, but I found it rather reassuring.

:huh: That's weird. I can look at sexual material and that doesn't happen. In fact, it's kind of difficult for me to do that. Nothing I think of turns me on.

-Katie

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