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Long term “mixed“ marriage


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My ace wife and I have been married for thirty years. I have what one would call an average libido….a sexual of the moderate level. My wife finds sex/intimacy mostly repulsive. 

Our sexual/intimacy troubles began on our honeymoon. We were both naive. Before getting married we both agreed to refrain from sex until marriage….but for different reasons (of which we did not know at the time). 
For the next twenty years I thought our sexual challenges were my fault….my problem. I felt I wasn’t physically attractive enough for her. So I would frequently go to the gym to try to enhance my appearance to be more appealing to her. I also put forth great effort at romance, kindness, gentleness, adoration, gift giving, listening, etc.

After twenty years of marriage, I finally learned what asexuality was. It blew my mind. I was relieved to find out what our great challenge was all about. And that it wasn’t my fault. But,….  it was incredibly daunting now knowing that this a forever situation. Sex and physical intimacy was not a gift that was for us.

Yes, my wife agrees that she is asexual but she hates being labeled that.

Over the years, because of our differences and lack of sex and intimacy, I experienced great loneliness, rejection, isolation, and a continued decrease of confidence in all that I did. I felt emasculated. I cried out to God for help. I begged God for help.

After we learned about asexuality, we communicated a little. Not a lot, just a little. She didn’t like talking or thinking about anything sexual. I eventually came very near to cheating on her so we sought counseling. Nothing helped as she became incredibly defensive and aggressive during sessions.

 

My wife grew up in a loving family…but a family that showed very little affection, communication, and touch. Everything was about work and duty.

My wife and I do have “sex” about once a week or so, but it is all about her “servicing” me. No intimacy, No closeness. No giving and receiving.  No romance. No planning. No preparation. No spontaneity. No exciting anticipation. She also hates being touched in intimate areas.

This is our life. There is great love, but…..

I now have pretty severe depression and anxiety. I have broken.

Communication is vitally important…. but for a “mixed” relationship to work it requires not just great love, but great strength, great discipline, and great perseverance.  The sexual will always have to deal with great temptations from outside the marriage. 
 

Communication is great…. but it does not bring the differences closer together.

 

 

 

 

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Olallieberry

Philosophicaly speaking, I feel like "fidelity" should be redefined in marriages like this.

 

Of course, nobody but those two people can do that, and it won't be the same for every such couple.

 

Some partners will refuse to do it.

 

What's fidelity supposed to mean when one partner expects to not provide the thing which fidelity is supposed to preserve between the two of them? They're not wrong for expecting that, but where does that leave the other partner and what does it mean for fidelity?

 

Is withholding sex a form of infidelity itself? I don't know a better word besides "withholding" to use here, but it's not ideal because it suggests that the other person is entitled to receiving it from their partner and it suggests that the asexual partner is doing it manipulatively, both of which are not what I intend to suggest. Anyway, an argument can be made that unilateral chastity or celibacy is a form of infidelity to the other partner. I'm not going to put a lot of effort into making that argument, but the idea does naturally follow from questioning fidelity in the first place. I'm not saying it's right, for me, you, our spouses, or anyone else in particular, I'm just saying it's a provocative point to consider and discuss.

 

I'm at the beginning of a slow process myself of finding out whether redefining fidelity (together with my spouse, not unilaterally) in my own marriage will be a fruitful effort.

 

This may be a controversial post. Please go here to discuss it instead of blowing up Lawrence's topic with side arguments!

 

 

Edited by Ollie415
Added lightning-rod link to save the original topic from blowing up.
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Windmills of My Mind

Wow. Just two big thumbs up for how you elaborate on the nuances there 👍👍

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I think we must accept that sometimes, love and communication attempts (who can fail) are not enough. Sometimes, pain is too heavy and a relationship doesn't work. Even after 30 years. From there, you have two options : keep going and accept the pain, or stop it.

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12 hours ago, Lawrence said:

I now have pretty severe depression and anxiety. I have broken.

This stands out to me. No one should ever sacrifice their own mental health to that extreme degree in order to keep a relationship together. Literally all relationships involve compromise and stress at times, to varying degrees, but a situation that results in one person experiencing severe depression and anxiety and feeling broken is one that shouldn't be maintained.

 

Of course, I know that's easy to say. Leaving a 30-year marriage means leaving a whole way of life that's long-established. But staying in it, with things as they are currently, is destroying you. 
 

You said you went to counselling together and it didn't help. Have you considered going to counselling by yourself? I think you really need some input from someone like that outside the situation so you can figure out where to go from here in your relationship, what options you have, and also to help you take control of your mental health.

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nanogretchen4

I agree that individual counseling should take priority over relationship counseling. A relationship counselor will focus on trying to save the marriage. Essentially the marriage will be their patient. It sounds like you have been prioritizing the marriage over your own mental health and happiness for a long time, and the last thing you need is a counselor with the same bias. What you need is a counselor who will treat you as the patient and prioritize your mental health and happiness without any conflict of interest. No relationship is more important than the people in it.

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Mountain House
2 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

No relationship is more important than the people in it.

Can't be said enough.

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Thank you all for your concern and your comments. I very much appreciate it.

 

I have made my decision some time ago regarding my marriage. I will stay the course…til the end. I will love her the very best I can and accept her best love.  We are both doing the best we can.

 

Is it not akin to “taking a bullet” for my spouse?  Is it not a good for a husband to sacrifice himself for his wife?….to die for his wife?  Wouldn’t most of us “take a bullet” for our spouse?

 

I do believe that our marriage could be justifiably annulled or divorced.  And I have strongly considered all your suggestions over time. I even brought up, and we considered, bringing in a third party.

 

I have tried over half a dozen different anxiety and depression medications. Nothing yet has helped.  I’ll keep trying what ever the psy prescribes. I don’t see a benefit for further counseling because, really, what is there to talk about? What counsel can one give?

 

I rely on my faith to get me through each day. I accept my suffering. My wife has accepted hers, too.  It might sound like lunacy and I certainly don’t blame anyone for taking a different path than I have chosen.  It’s a hard, hard situation and a hard, hard way of life to chose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Lawrence said:

Is it not akin to “taking a bullet” for my spouse?  Is it not a good for a husband to sacrifice himself for his wife?….to die for his wife?  Wouldn’t most of us “take a bullet” for our spouse?

A big no.

But that's your life.

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Olallieberry
1 hour ago, Lawrence said:

Is it not akin to “taking a bullet” for my spouse?

Maybe

1 hour ago, Lawrence said:

Is it not a good for a husband to sacrifice himself for his wife?….to die for his wife?

It depends

 

1 hour ago, Lawrence said:

Wouldn’t most of us “take a bullet” for our spouse?

To have and to hold, to love and to cherish, sickness health yada yada. I don’t think we can really characterize this in terms of “most people” or “most circumstances.” You’re doing you and that’s great. I can completely understand prioritizing one’s sense of honor and genuine generosity toward their loved one over other things which one suffers with and could do something about if they were less selfless.

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19 hours ago, Lawrence said:

After we learned about asexuality, we communicated a little. Not a lot, just a little. She didn’t like talking or thinking about anything sexual. I eventually came very near to cheating on her so we sought counseling. Nothing helped as she became incredibly defensive and aggressive during sessions.

 

19 hours ago, Lawrence said:

My wife and I do have “sex” about once a week or so, but it is all about her “servicing” me.

I'm going to preface this by stating that I'm not married, but I am asexual and in a relationship with someone who is not. I understand that your wife may be sex-repulsed to some degree, but it's not healthy that she's not willing to communicate with you about sex. From the ace perspective, I make sure to always engage in those sorts of conversations with my partner because I want to make sure he's getting what he needs. Yes, it's mostly for him - but that doesn't make it any less close or intimate from my perspective. Matter of fact, that's what makes it feel intimate to me - it's the shared love and making sure the other person is taken care of according to their needs. I could go forever without having sex. That's not to say I get no enjoyment from it, but I definitely don't want or need it as often as he does. 

 

As for her defensiveness and aggressiveness during counseling, do you know what she's guarding and why? When I see people get defensive and aggressive, I see insecurities and vulnerabilities. They're scared, and they're protecting themselves from something. I agree with the person who said that it might be a good idea for you to get individual counseling. But it sounds like your wife also has her own issues to work through, so she might also benefit from the same. Finally, I think it's honorable that you intend to stick out your relationship. But is your wife willing to put in the work to do the same? A relationship isn't a relationship if it's one-sided.

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3 hours ago, Lawrence said:

Thank you all for your concern and your comments. I very much appreciate it.

 

I have made my decision some time ago regarding my marriage. I will stay the course…til the end. I will love her the very best I can and accept her best love.  We are both doing the best we can.

 

Is it not akin to “taking a bullet” for my spouse?  Is it not a good for a husband to sacrifice himself for his wife?….to die for his wife?  Wouldn’t most of us “take a bullet” for our spouse?

 

I do believe that our marriage could be justifiably annulled or divorced.  And I have strongly considered all your suggestions over time. I even brought up, and we considered, bringing in a third party.

 

I have tried over half a dozen different anxiety and depression medications. Nothing yet has helped.  I’ll keep trying what ever the psy prescribes. I don’t see a benefit for further counseling because, really, what is there to talk about? What counsel can one give?

 

I rely on my faith to get me through each day. I accept my suffering. My wife has accepted hers, too.  It might sound like lunacy and I certainly don’t blame anyone for taking a different path than I have chosen.  It’s a hard, hard situation and a hard, hard way of life to chose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Lawrence,

I've stayed and am staying in my current and only marriage - sexual with a non sexual partner for the same amount of time as you. A mixed marriage like ours sucks. But the pain you describe, the depression, the anxiety.,. Well not only should it be telling you something but rather than 'taking the bullet' for your wife it's more like firing the bullet at yourself and your wife. Being depressed, anxious can't be good for you and I would imagine couldn't be good for your wife either.

Your reply is full of resignation. I respect the fact that you're a believer and as such you know that there's free will and as such should be used.

I'm really sorry you're suffering. Wishing you well.

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5 hours ago, Lawrence said:

Is it not akin to “taking a bullet” for my spouse?  Is it not a good for a husband to sacrifice himself for his wife?….to die for his wife?  Wouldn’t most of us “take a bullet” for our spouse?

No, not that kind of bullet.  Some people, if they were in a life-or-death situation, might place themselves in front of their partner so that they would be literally shot rather than their partner.  But a daily, 'til-the-end-of-life abnegation of their own health and happiness for their partner, no.  That's pretty much choosing to be a slave.  

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On 3/17/2023 at 2:08 PM, Lawrence said:

Is it not akin to “taking a bullet” for my spouse?

Well... no.  This doesn't seem anything like that.  Neither of you are under threat of death, just unhappiness.

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LauraMargaret
On 3/17/2023 at 12:35 AM, Lawrence said:

My ace wife and I have been married for thirty years. I have what one would call an average libido….a sexual of the moderate level. My wife finds sex/intimacy mostly repulsive. 

Our sexual/intimacy troubles began on our honeymoon. We were both naive. Before getting married we both agreed to refrain from sex until marriage….but for different reasons (of which we did not know at the time). 
For the next twenty years I thought our sexual challenges were my fault….my problem. I felt I wasn’t physically attractive enough for her. So I would frequently go to the gym to try to enhance my appearance to be more appealing to her. I also put forth great effort at romance, kindness, gentleness, adoration, gift giving, listening, etc.

After twenty years of marriage, I finally learned what asexuality was. It blew my mind. I was relieved to find out what our great challenge was all about. And that it wasn’t my fault. But,….  it was incredibly daunting now knowing that this a forever situation. Sex and physical intimacy was not a gift that was for us.

Yes, my wife agrees that she is asexual but she hates being labeled that.

Over the years, because of our differences and lack of sex and intimacy, I experienced great loneliness, rejection, isolation, and a continued decrease of confidence in all that I did. I felt emasculated. I cried out to God for help. I begged God for help.

After we learned about asexuality, we communicated a little. Not a lot, just a little. She didn’t like talking or thinking about anything sexual. I eventually came very near to cheating on her so we sought counseling. Nothing helped as she became incredibly defensive and aggressive during sessions.

 

My wife grew up in a loving family…but a family that showed very little affection, communication, and touch. Everything was about work and duty.

My wife and I do have “sex” about once a week or so, but it is all about her “servicing” me. No intimacy, No closeness. No giving and receiving.  No romance. No planning. No preparation. No spontaneity. No exciting anticipation. She also hates being touched in intimate areas.

This is our life. There is great love, but…..

I now have pretty severe depression and anxiety. I have broken.

Communication is vitally important…. but for a “mixed” relationship to work it requires not just great love, but great strength, great discipline, and great perseverance.  The sexual will always have to deal with great temptations from outside the marriage. 
 

Communication is great…. but it does not bring the differences closer together.

 

 

 

 

Oh dear, thank you for sharing your story. I can so much relate to everything you’re saying… my husband also doesn’t like communicating about it. And it does make you feel so anxious and sad… I do wonder so often, do I have the right to leave a marriage because of one aspect of our lives, should I just be strong and keep being strong for as long as you have been married. Your story is very moving, and I do feel your pain. It is a big step for sure to find out what asexuality is all about. For me it was a breaking point anyway.. 

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2 minutes ago, LauraMargaret said:

do I have the right to leave a marriage

You have the right to leave a marriage for any reason.  

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1 minute ago, Sally said:

You have the right to leave a marriage for any reason.  

Of course you do.  But when you feel it isn't right it isn't right  many, many years ago I was at breaking point. Said no.and then I had pangs in my stomach. My asexual husband is everything to me. I felt sick to my stomach. 

When I say what would I do without you, he replies you would find another better than me. But in my heart I know that he's the best with his faults and me with mine.

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LauraMargaret

It’s beautiful that you have such incredible connection. I admire your strength. I just don’t know how to feel like a woman in a

marriage where there is no attraction from his side. I was raised by a catholic mother who always made me feel bad about having boyfriends, sex was never a topic or talked about as a natural part of life. It was a sin. My therapist phrased it ‘so you found yourself and married a guy who you couldn’t even have committed those sins with you’ve been learning all your childhood about’. Touché. 

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You don't have to feel guilty if you stop a relationship who makes you suffer. That's not a bad decision. That's just the decision you need. Or you can stay. That's not a bad decision either.

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Olallieberry
19 minutes ago, LauraMargaret said:

My therapist phrased it ‘so you found yourself and married a guy who you couldn’t even have committed those sins with you’ve been learning all your childhood about’. Touché. 

Do you think the therapist is right about that?

 

Sounds like claptrap to me. Therapists come up with lots of brainstorms which are just their ideas about what they're hearing. It doesn't make them true. If it makes you think, that can be positive, but it doesn't mean you have to agree, it means you use their ideas to discover your own truth.

 

But maybe it's not claptrap. If the therapist pointed out something you strongly relate to, what do you do about it? Does it make you happy to "live without sin," which is not really the case since you're married?

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LauraMargaret

You are right, Of course it is just to start thinking about these things. Interesting thought. I do relate to the idea that we probably all try to comply with the standards our parents set and that this ambition to comply was a bit too dominant in me. It is just extremely frustrating living like this.  I am a very calm person, people say they admire me for my discipline, kindness and positive attitude. I love life and people, I really do appreciate the little things, it is true. And inside it’s a constant battle: am I wishing too much by wanting to experience this aspect of a relationship? Am I ungrateful if I leave because of this? I do know what I would say if it was anyone else in the world. That they know best what they can put up with. That they do have the right to leave. Still, I can’t apply the same generosity on myself that I feel for everyone else. It’s difficult.  Thank you so much for caring and replying. It means a lot to be here and hear from others after such a very very long time of keeping this all to myself. 

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LauraMargaret
22 minutes ago, Liara said:

You don't have to feel guilty if you stop a relationship who makes you suffer. That's not a bad decision. That's just the decision you need. Or you can stay. That's not a bad decision either.

Thank you so much, Liara. I have read your story and made me think a lot. It is such a special situation to be in, it makes me feel so alone so so often that even the very small circle of people with whom I shared this with has no idea or understanding. A very lonely place to be. 

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1 hour ago, LauraMargaret said:

Thank you so much, Liara. I have read your story and made me think a lot. It is such a special situation to be in, it makes me feel so alone so so often that even the very small circle of people with whom I shared this with has no idea or understanding. A very lonely place to be. 

Yes, that's a very lonely place to be. Only people who live the same can understand. And there is no place for us out here...

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LauraMargaret- I have reasons for staying in my marriage that I have not mentioned. But, yes, ending a mixed marriage is very justifiable. Sexual intimacy is a vital aspect of marital unity. Of course you’re going to feel guilty about leaving. How can you not?

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I would like to respond to a few comments to my previous posts.

 

Yes, my ace wife suffers, also. She is also on antidepressants. But she too chooses to keep our marriage going.

 

Is suffering for one’s spouse worse (less desirable) than dying (taking a bullet) for one’s spouse?

 

I think that my depression will dissipate if I left my wife or if she suddenly became sexual. But my anxiety is different.

I used to think that anxiety was more melodrama than mental health with people….until I experienced it.

 

My anxiety is deeply rooted and seemingly uncontrollable.  It started when my wife and I “bottomed out” because of our differences and we were discussing bringing in a third party. She at first agreed. When it became close to reality she changed her mind vehemently….. and we separated. I left for a year in order to heal. Because I truly felt I was going crazy.

 

We reunited and continued as before… but now I had incredible anxiety…..Because of the trauma of “breaking up” and possibly ending marriage. It was like something short circuited in my head. The anxiety is deep, intense and keeps me from doing many things. Even talking to others is extraordinary difficult. My only hope for the anxiety is medication.  I don’t believe even if my wife suddenly became sexual that it would help my anxiety. The damage has been done.

 

The anxiety is far worse than the depression.  And it is far worse than physical pain (any physical pain I’ve experienced, anyway).

 

So , if I break up with my wife…. the anxiety will remain. 

 

God keeps me going each day and He turns my suffering into great good….making my suffering worth it.

 

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9 hours ago, LauraMargaret said:

It’s beautiful that you have such incredible connection. I admire your strength. I just don’t know how to feel like a woman in a

marriage where there is no attraction from his side. I was raised by a catholic mother who always made me feel bad about having boyfriends, sex was never a topic or talked about as a natural part of life. It was a sin. My therapist phrased it ‘so you found yourself and married a guy who you couldn’t even have committed those sins with you’ve been learning all your childhood about’. Touché. 

Oh Laura, I'm sorry for you.

 

I'm currently 60 so it's easier now, but in the past it was hard.

 

I would often receive compliments and sometimes unwanted passes and still do.  Also I had previous relationships where sex was explored. Actually it's the past experiences which stop me from pursuing greener pastures. The sex can be excellent but if the rest isn't it's actually worse.

 

I'm not sure I agree with your therapist though.

Did you know about asexuality? When did you find out?

It sounds to me that he's taking a shortcut and playing to.your beliefs. If that were so he/she is actually doing you a disservice.

 

Things happen, mixed marriages such as ours,  it's how we react to things which make a difference.

 

And when there are two there's the mix of how you both react.

 

Had I known about asexuality(found out a year ago) I would not have married or if I had found out in my 30s I would have left. I would have lived separately and would have seen what the future held.

 

I live in a Catholic country where sex is talked about and not frowned upon. Yes, you get bigots here too, but don't let your religion stop you from exploring.

As they say here there's always confession.

 

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intheshadowoferos
On 3/16/2023 at 4:35 PM, Lawrence said:

This is our life. There is great love, but…..

…... but for a “mixed” relationship to work it requires not just great love, but great strength, great discipline, and great perseverance.

I could not have said it better. 
-all the best

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  • 3 weeks later...
HappilyEverafter

Hey, 

I'm an asexual and I have never been married, but I was scrolling through this to try and help a friend, and saw this post, so I thought I could leave my opinions or beliefs here. When someone sexual asks me to be in a relationship, if the linking is mutual or even if they are just a nice stranger, I suggest an open relationship because this is what I have learnt after a lot of reading and listening to the needs of my friends' need for sex and such:

 

In a relationship or marriage between a sexual person and an asexual person, clearly, there is a big difference, and the presence or absence of this factor is a big, important thing in relationships or marriages. As an asexual, I can be in a sex-less relationship marriage for a lifetime. What would be a nightmare for me would be giving a partner sex every time they want it. I can try and please them once in a while, but I am sure I will get into depression and anxiety myself if I would try to sexually satisfy my partner every single time they want sex. 

 

I am a romantic asexual, so I would like my partner to be romantic as well. If I would be in a relationship with an aromantic, someone who would never want hugs, kisses, and cuddles, I would start feeling bad. A part of me would start feeling lonely no matter how loving my partner could be.

 

Similarly, for a sexual person, they would want sex often, and I think that is just them being themselves. And typically, when you are in a relationship or marriage, the first person you go to for intimacy is your partner, but when your partner does not want that, what else would you do?

 

Forcing an asexual to have sex would be terrible, like rape for an asexual, and forcing a sexual person to completely give up their desire for sex is like telling them to rewire themselves, and that would be like being in a prison for the sexual person. Neither person, no human being deserves that kind of pain. 

 

Therefore, my choice is to keep the relationship an open one, to value love and transparency, and while both are committed to each other and can it consider it a monogamy or be emotionally exclusive, for their own needs that the other can't provide, they could be transparent with their partner about that and go have their needs met with someone else outside. 

 

If my partner would go outside the relationship for sex, I would go outside the relationship for romance when they are not around and I feel the need for it. That's the agreement that I propose. 

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Very well said. 
 

Even though I have explored the open marriage, or the possibility of it, with my wife, I felt tremendous guilt. And, as it came close to reality, my ace wife had extreme reservations and jealousy about it.

 

We almost broke up over it.

 

However, I personally, think it would be better to break up the relationship (as hard as it may be) than to bring in a third (or more) party.  That’s my own personal view.

 

But what you say makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that.

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We live in an open relationship, and I can’t recall the thousands of misconceptions and false narratives I was conditioned to believe. They were born from ignorance, fear and general indoctrination. At times, I  wish there was a way to gift folks over the mental block of impossibility.
 

I accept they don’t know what they don’t know and must make their way as best as they can.

 

As for me, I can categorically say that bringing my lover into our fold has been the best decision for our family’s longevity. Our children are 13 and 10, and I’d say they would likely agree if they fully understood. 

 

With that said, it’s not without its stressors. Recently, for the first time, we attended an important family event as a group. My lover joined as a friend of the family, and no one knew. However, it was tougher than expected.
 

At one point, I felt completely torn: I ache to be “out” with him, but never want to hurt my husband. My husband seemed to want to keep my attention (not naturally) and my lover rolled with it all. His security in any circumstance both grounds and attracts me. I didn’t feel settled in the moment the way I would if we’d all been hanging out at home.
 

At some point, the two men found they were happiest together and sat for the duration talking and laughing without me. It’s a different dynamic when we all show up at once, but I wouldn’t change it for anything.
 

Last night we had another family dinner at home. Afterwards, my husband took the kids out while my lover and I stuffed eggs for the kid’s Easter hunt tomorrow. Many hands make light work, three adults work better than two and while different at times, it flows.
 

I’ll take tough navigation on occasion over a half life any day. Leaving? That’s always a valid option as well.

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