Is this an asexual thing or woman thing or both?

[ElevenElysion]

I go to an adult art class every week and its really important for following my dream. Today a classmate in his 60s, asked me 27, on a date. I thought he was just a friendly person but apparently that wasn't why he was being friendly and I am just disturbed.

 

But this isn't the first time. Its not an age problem either.

 

When I was in elementary school every year a boy would "confess" to me (I mean...elementary school its not that serious) and it was annoying but it didn't bother me (because instead of befriending me they'd tell me they liked me then avoid any interactions afterward. We could have been friends.)

 

Then from junior high I got way more "confessions" than before and I started getting scared. 

 

But I don't know why I am scared.

 

I have an immediately flight response and run away or I say extremely cruel things I don't mean as a coping mechanism or something.

 

I am okay with talking to anybody and I care a lot about other people and see them as full human beings. But I don't feel I am treated the same. I am supportive of the things they do not because I'm fond of them but because I respect them as human beings.

 

When I got into university I had my chance to confess to someone and was rejected and I learned how painful it can be and I regret how cruel I was to all the people I rejected throughout my life.

 

I've learned to be kinder to people asking me out on dates, but I still feel fear, I want to cry, jump off a bridge, disappear. I feel violated even though they didn't do anything mean to me.

 

I'm gonna talk to my therapist about this later. I'm also going to go back to that class and act like nothing happened and concentrate on my work (which I usually do but I thought I was making a friend today so I talked to them)

 

(Also sorry for using them a lot. I don't mean 'men' I mean specifically people who ask me out of both genders.)

 

So is this at all relatable? Is it because I'm a woman or is it because I'm asexual or both?

[Phalena]

Heyyy! I'm about your age and I too make the experience of being fawned over or asked out by much older men semi-regularly. It's scary as hell. I could play bingo with all their "reasons" as to why they are apparently a "perfect match" for me. From financial status over shit-talking younger men all the way to attributing it to "nature" I've also had, uh, situations like this.

 

And as cruel as being blunt feels and sometimes sounds, I have also made the experience that that's the only way to get rid of such unwanted attention most of the time. A gentle "no" will more often than not perceived as a play of "trying hard to get" and thus disrespected. When being blunt, you will inevitably be called a b-word sooner than later and called "disagreeable" aka "not as easily manipulated as expected" and you sure as hell will have to make sure that you won't fall victim to violence. Because if you did, you'd be blamed for that.

 

I have found that claiming to have a boyfriend is usually the safest way to get out of situations like this to this day. Even if some of those creeps are aware of the trick at this point and will put pressure on you to cave in while others have the opinion that the boyfriend, real or not, "wouldn't need to know".

 

I guess the, "not wanting to be asked out at all" can come with being ace though it's not garanteed to be that way but being asked out by questionable people, especially older men that can't accept their own age or women their own age for that matter, is defintely a 'woman thing' rather than an 'ace thing'. Not sure how common it is the other way around, that, men will have to tell you.

 

Sorry for the rant. ^^;

[simpleminded90]

 

1 hour ago, Phalena said:

And as cruel as being blunt feels and sometimes sounds, I have also made the experience that that's the only way to get rid of such unwanted attention most of the time. A gentle "no" will more often than not perceived as a play of "trying hard to get" and thus disrespected. When being blunt, you will inevitably be called a b-word sooner than later and called "disagreeable" aka "not as easily manipulated as expected" and you sure as hell will have to make sure that you fall victim to violence. Because if you did, you'd be blamed for that.

Perfectly put. This does happen with men too but the "no" is usually immediate , in my experience , so the issue manifests less problems. 

[ElevenElysion]

1 hour ago, Phalena said:

And as cruel as being blunt feels and sometimes sounds, I have also made the experience that that's the only way to get rid of such unwanted attention most of the time. A gentle "no" will more often than not perceived as a play of "trying hard to get" and thus disrespected. When being blunt, you will inevitably be called a b-word sooner than later and called "disagreeable" aka "not as easily manipulated as expected" and you sure as hell will have to make sure that you fall victim to violence. Because if you did, you'd be blamed for that.

 

I have found that claiming to have a boyfriend is usually the safest way to get out of situations like this to this day. Even if some of those creeps are aware of the trick at this point and will put pressure on you to cave in while others have the opinion that the boyfriend, real or not, "wouldn't need to know".

I think I learned in elementary school about the gentle 'no' doesn't work. It might be the origin of my fear. There are 2 boys when I was a kid who would not leave me alone. One boy, I started off just saying 'let's be friends' but then he kept saying how much he loved me, trying to hold my hand, sending love letters, giving me gifts, and no matter how much I said no he wouldn't stop so I ended up kicking him until he ran away (I was cruel. It sounds cute for an elementary school boy to do that now that I think of it but at the time I was pissed off. Also he said he loved my blonde hair even though I had dark brown hair...?)

 

And then another boy liked that I liked video games and had everyone in the school ask if I would be his girlfriend (not exaggerating on everyone) and I had to say no every single time. This was like a daily thing and it didn't end until he changed schools.

 

It sounds cute from the other side but it taught me that not only does no not mean no, but nothing will stop them. Like it felt like bullying except with "love"

 

So I was super cruel in junior and high school (think of the cruelest thing you could say to someone, I probably said it).

 

I realize I was the villain when it came to romance but I also don't know how to get people to stop.

 

The boyfriend thing might work. I've tried it before I am really bad at lying so it didn't work before but currently many people think I have a secret boyfriend I am just hiding so it might work (lol the advantage of being ace and not being understood. People think you're just being humble or secretive).

[Guest]

Feeling strong fear when being asked about dates is neither a woman thing nor an asexual thing. It's good that you're talking to a therapist about it.

 

I do also have the impression that males fall in love easier though. Or maybe they're just more open about it. Who knows.

 

Telling people that I'm asexual has worked pretty well, as most have sexual interest so when they know that's not on the table they quickly don't want a relationship anymore. 😛 /half joking

 

That being said disclosing may not always be safe.

[Lord Jade Cross]

Not a woman but Im ace, so half my point is possible? 😅

 

While I wouldnt say Ive had tons of people ask me out, there were a few times some did and generally speaking, at least as a guy, its somehow expected that you say "yes" so as not to hurt the girls feelings, and trust me some girls dont take rejection very well.

 

If you think a guy getting all pissy and insulting you is bad, just wait till you cross a yandere who wont want to take "No" for an answer, even when you try to lay them down as gently as possible. Thankfully none ever turned on the water works or threw a public fit, but the death stares, the condecending "observations", the manipulative "chances", spreading gossip/false rumors, all there.

 

Had a girl who tried the "Im going to be oh so alone for my birthday" and I couldnt voice it but I wanted to tell her "youre a grown ass woman, are you expecting a surprise cake and presents?" She was around 35ish and I was 23ish so this idea that only older men chase young girls, yea, that happens on the other side of the field too, and not to sound hateful but she wasnt exactly the type of woman I would find interesting (not that I date but even without that I am ok with being around people who share my interests). For one thing she was creepy and a stalker, literraly. I couldnt go anywhere she wouldnt follow and I think people need to lay off the "woah dude a "cougar" (and I put that in quotation marks because Im not sure what the age for that term is anymore. It just to be women in thekr 50's)is after you? Youre so lucky!" No, no its not. Its not cute, its not hot, youre not "living the ultimate fantasy of mature sex with a women who knows what shes doing" its creepy. Im sorry ladies but not all us guys have porn for a brain

 

Thankfully, as Ive gotten older, Im in less situations where this might happen and my general way of behaving is (hopefully) off putting enough that noone will get it in their minds to want to ask me out. Though unfortunately, I still have trouble and have to be sort of double guessing being cordial to a woman becuse for whatever reason that is still sometimes interpreted as "interest" and if I feel that one is interested or showing signs of starting to develop interest, I make sure I back off and stay away as far and as much as possible, being direct and crude if neccesary. A good indicator is when other guys or girls make a comment pointing out behaviour that would signal interest.

 

 

[ElevenElysion]

31 minutes ago, Lilika said:

I do also have the impression that males fall in love easier though. Or maybe they're just more open about it. Who knows.

Although the majority were male a few of the people who confessed to me or asked me out were women. Same gut feeling of fear.

 

I checked fearful avoidant attachment which could be it but when I read about it and it says that I want them to love me back, that's totally not how I feel especially in the first case of being asked out by somebody around my parents age. I don't understand the giving people a chance thing either since most of them never took the chance to get to know me before confessing. Then I hear if we date we get to know eachother, but we can not date and still get to know eachother...

 

Iunno maybe my therapist can help. I've also been stalked a few times and chased on the street multiple times so it might also be coming from that fear.

[notatrickster]

28 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

I think I learned in elementary school about the gentle 'no' doesn't work. It might be the origin of my fear. There are 2 boys when I was a kid who would not leave me alone. One boy, I started off just saying 'let's be friends' but then he kept saying how much he loved me, trying to hold my hand, sending love letters, giving me gifts, and no matter how much I said no he wouldn't stop so I ended up kicking him until he ran away (I was cruel. It sounds cute for an elementary school boy to do that now that I think of it but at the time I was pissed off. Also he said he loved my blonde hair even though I had dark brown hair...?)

 

And then another boy liked that I liked video games and had everyone in the school ask if I would be his girlfriend (not exaggerating on everyone) and I had to say no every single time. This was like a daily thing and it didn't end until he changed schools.

 

It sounds cute from the other side but it taught me that not only does no not mean no, but nothing will stop them. Like it felt like bullying except with "love"

 

So I was super cruel in junior and high school (think of the cruelest thing you could say to someone, I probably said it).

 

I realize I was the villain when it came to romance but I also don't know how to get people to stop.

 

The boyfriend thing might work. I've tried it before I am really bad at lying so it didn't work before but currently many people think I have a secret boyfriend I am just hiding so it might work (lol the advantage of being ace and not being understood. People think you're just being humble or secretive).

"It felt like bullying except with 'love'" ooof, I felt that. You just described my whole time in middle school and high school...

Until I figured out that saying 'ugh sure i guess' to one of them and tolerating his attention kept the rest away. Not the healthiest way to get through it but it was all I knew how to do at the time. I wasn't well in a lot of ways back then. I don't think my strategy worked as well as I thought - I called out sick a lot just so I wouldn't have to go to school and play 'girlfriend' and be touched all day. But like... I legitimately thought it was easier to navigate one guy's unwanted attention on a predictable schedule, than a whole bunch coming in randomly from all angles. "Bullying" really does cover it - I think my only reason for dating, ever, has been hopelessness and acceptance of defeat.

It didn't stop with the high school boys. I was often being pestered by strangers feeling entitled to my attention, being harassed and even touched on public transit, trying to make friends in university but always just coming back to having to reject someone's advances. I worked a lot of odd jobs back then, and some of the things coworkers have said and done to me could have gotten them sued, if I had ever bothered to stick up for myself.
The thing that ended this pattern for me, was discovering the word "aromantic". Took a little longer to figure out I was ace. The sexual attention didn't affect me quite as much because I just... didn't get it, couldn't take it seriously, idk. I was MISERABLE having to navigate 'dating' and 'love' because I DID get those and found them unbearable in a way I couldn't describe back then. 

 

But to answer your question, I think getting this kind of attention is just an unfortunate side-effect of being a particular gender in a culture so steeped in toxic masculinity and entitlement in general, and a ton of other things I can't articulate properly.
BUT I do think it hits different when you're a-spec. I tell my high-school stories to allo folks and they act like I should feel good about getting so much attention; they concede that it sounds a bit annoying, but it's not as dark for them as it felt for me. I can find some humour in it now after a decade... but mostly I recall it as being low-key traumatic ngl.
I will never know if this is the source or the product of my romance-repulsion, but I DO know that being aro/ace added an extra upsetting layer to a legitimate problem with the way people treat each other.

Sorry for the long reply - I really related to your story!
 

[ElevenElysion]

12 minutes ago, Lord Jade Cross said:

Not a woman but Im ace, so half my point is possible? 😅

 

While I wouldnt say Ive had tons of people ask me out, there were a few times some did and generally speaking, at least as a guy, its somehow expected that you say "yes" so as not to hurt the girls feelings, and trust me some girls dont take rejection very well.

 

If you think a guy getting all pissy and insulting you is bad, just wait till you cross a yandere who wont want to take "No" for an answer, even when you try to lay them down as gently as possible. Thankfully none ever turned on the water works or threw a public fit, but the death stares, the condecending "observations", the manipulative "chances", spreading gossip/false rumors, all there.

 

Had a girl who tried the "Im going to be oh so alone for my birthday" and I couldnt voice it but I wanted to tell her "youre a grown ass woman, are you expecting a surprise cake and presents?" She was around 35ish and I was 23ish so this idea that only older men chase young girls, yea, that happens on the other side of the field too, and not to sound hateful but she wasnt exactly the type of woman I would find interesting (not that I date but even without that I am ok with being around people who share my interests). For one thing she was creepy and a stalker, literraly. I couldnt go anywhere she wouldnt follow and I think people need to lay off the "woah dude a "cougar" (and I put that in quotation marks because Im not sure what the age for that term is anymore. It just to be women in thekr 50's)is after you? Youre so lucky!" No, no its not. Its not cute, its not hot, youre not "living the ultimate fantasy of mature sex with a women who knows what shes doing" its creepy. Im sorry ladies but not all us guys have porn for a brain

 

Thankfully, as Ive gotten older, Im in less situations where this might happen and my general way of behaving is (hopefully) off putting enough that noone will get it in their minds to want to ask me out. Though unfortunately, I still have trouble and have to be sort of double guessing being cordial to a woman becuse for whatever reason that is still sometimes interpreted as "interest" and if I feel that one is interested or showing signs of starting to develop interest, I make sure I back off and stay away as far and as much as possible, being direct and crude if neccesary

 

 

I'm so glad you shared your perspective! My best friend is male and I know he's been harrassed by some women but he usually says he takes it as a compliment even though I know it hurts him because he is also scared of some women.

 

I definitely know the yandere type for both sides and its not cute and super awful when you're the object of their affection. Also I read an old forum on here where somebody had a similar problem and a lot of the men were saying how scared they felt when the women were being fake nice. I get that sometimes from men, too (like today) and it just feels so much like a betrayal. Also I live in Tokyo and know a few people who go to Kabukicho pretty regularly where that real life yandere incident happened and they said that kind of girl is extremely common. I went to an event there and got sexually harrassed (pictures taken under my skirt, chased, etc) and when I tried to get help from some girls they just glared at me. I think if you're a man in kabukicho it must be pretty scary.

 

Also yeah... the cougar... I teach an adult class and I had a 30 year old woman flirt with a high school boy in my class. I tried to get her separated but nobody believed me. Or they thought it was funny. Luckily now they are separated but man was it an awkward class, trying to protect a kid from a woman who should know better.

 

Sounds like people are creeps when it comes to romance no matter the gender.

[ElevenElysion]

23 minutes ago, notatrickster said:

I tell my high-school stories to allo folks and they act like I should feel good about getting so much attention; they concede that it sounds a bit annoying, but it's not as dark for them as it felt for me. I can find some humour in it now after a decade... but mostly I recall it as being low-key traumatic ngl.
I will never know if this is the source or the product of my romance-repulsion, but I DO know that being aro/ace added an extra upsetting layer to a legitimate problem with the way people treat each other.

Sorry for the long reply - I really related to your story!
 

This is why I posted on here! XD A lot of people I have talked to about this told me I was bragging or said they envied me because they've never been confessed to before. But like...I'd understand 1 or 2 confessions being nice but...everyday? Or 10+ attempts to display how they think I am the perfect girl despite knowing 2 or 3 extremely surface level things about me. Ex. I like video games and anime and I am a girl = I love you. That's not a confession of love. They are not in love with me (hence the quotes I used in the top post).

 

I also went on a date with a guy who was extremely persistent. Only one. (I did it because I like shoujo manga and he was the most popular boy in school so I thougt I hit jackpot but I did not at all...). I went to study abroad (my dream) in Japan and he was pissed off even though we only went on one date. And he would tell me how mad he was that I was talking to my super platonic male best friend and he would always eat lunch with me and get angry that my friend was there. And he would text me everyday to tell me I was stupid because I didn't say hi to him when he walked by (usually I didn't see him though). (also not sure why this guy liked me since we had nothing in common)

 

So yeah, settling makes it worse.

[Anime Pancake]

Hello! Im a 32 year old male and I can relate to a lot that you said.

 

I think for me, if I am not attracted to a person in a romantic way and that person says they like me, I feel like I want to not talk to that person anymore. It feels annoying that the person is interested in me romantically.

 

So yeah, I think just having a person be romantically or sexually attracted to me, when I am not attracted to them, my natural defense is to just try to avoid that person. Because I don't want a romantic or sexual relationship with that person and they want a relationship with me

 

So basically, you are just not wanting to talk to some of the people that ask you out because they like you romantically and you do not like those people romantically. Its actually good that you let the people know you don't like them, so they don't keep trying to date you.

[Lord Jade Cross]

20 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

I'm so glad you shared your perspective! My best friend is male and I know he's been harrassed by some women but he usually says he takes it as a compliment even though I know it hurts him because he is also scared of some women.

And thats a very common thing for us guys to do. To fake the role of the chad or the bad boy, not because were aiming to get laid but to avoid being shamed by both men and women alike for "not being a man"

 

And this happens to a degree that some folks might find surprising. Ive seem men gang up on a guy if they find out he isnt "putting it" often or chasing every girl that walks pass him, or heaven forbid is still a virgin past the age of 15

 

Same thing with women. I have seen them gang up on men who show any sign of disinterest or who sort of tells on himself that hes a virgin or afraid of women, especially with marriage in the conversation. And Ive had it happen to me as well. If you, as a guy are pushing past your late 20's and not have a marriage certificate, the go to response/question for any reason you might have for not wanting to get married at all or in the near future is "who hurt you?". Followed by "youre not getting younger", etc. So the push for marriage is on for guys, just as it is or was with girls

20 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

 

I definitely know the yandere type for both sides and its not cute and super awful when you're the object of their affection. Also I read an old forum on here where somebody had a similar problem and a lot of the men were saying how scared they felt when the women were being fake nice. I get that sometimes from men, too (like today) and it just feels so much like a betrayal. Also I live in Tokyo and know a few people who go to Kabukicho pretty regularly where that real life yandere incident happened and they said that kind of girl is extremely common. I went to an event there and got sexually harrassed (pictures taken under my skirt, chased, etc) and when I tried to get help from some girls they just glared at me. I think if you're a man in kabukicho it must be pretty scary.

Not in Japan but in conventions, when a girl approaches me or I her and ask for a photo (I do cosplay), I am extremely careful where or how the photo is posed for. Some girls will push themselves onto you and you have to make sure youre hands and other parts are nowhere near a place where later someone can claim "he groped me". Usually, I will have my back turned to them or be a good few feet apart.  The cosplay community is usually pretty chill but as everywhere else, there are always bad apples in the bunch and while some have no trouble being super close, I rather avoid any unnecesaty drama ans legal trouble

20 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

Also yeah... the cougar... I teach an adult class and I had a 30 year old woman flirt with a high school boy in my class. I tried to get her separated but nobody believed me. Or they thought it was funny. Luckily now they are separated but man was it an awkward class, trying to protect a kid from a woman who should know better.

 

Sounds like people are creeps when it comes to romance no matter the gender.

This is unfortunately not something that helps. In the same way men are held to standards, people need to make sure women are held to those as well

[CincinnatiAsexual]

When I was in high school/college I was asked out by women a total of 3 or 4 times, and I wasn't necessarily interested, but I went along with it because I liked that they were interested in me. Up until I met my wife, I never pursued anyone, because I am so different than most people I come across. I thought for many years that because I was so different that I was destined to be single. 

 

During college I asked my now wife out to coffee, and she wasn't interested after the coffee date. At the time she was into tall guys, and me being an inch or two shorter than her wasn't her idea of attractive. It was hard being rejected. She avoided me for the rest of our college years. 4 years after we graduated from college, she was single and we started distance dating. She was a much different person having grown up a little, and it was then that I was seen as acceptable. As we distance dated, I wondered if she would reject me again at some point, but thankfully we are doing well and now married for 4 years.

 

So I guess my general point is, there are folks who are asking out others and they're not really interested in a relationship, they just want to have a good fling. These types of people don't need to waste your time. Then there are genuine people who ask you out who really want to have something real with someone else. Figuring out which one of these people they are is a big differentiation.

[Phalena]

22 minutes ago, Lord Jade Cross said:

And thats a very common thing for us guys to do. To fake the role of the chad or the bad boy, not because were aiming to get laid but to avoid being shamed by both men and women alike for "not being a man"

 

And this happens to a degree that some folks might find surprising. Ive seem men gang up on a guy if they find out he isnt "putting it" often or chasing every girl that walks pass him, or heaven forbid is still a virgin past the age of 15

 

Same thing with women. I have seen them gang up on men who show any sign of disinterest or who sort of tells on himself that hes a virgin or afraid of women, especially with marriage in the conversation. And Ive had it happen to me as well. If you, as a guy are pushing past your late 20's and not have a marriage certificate, the go to response/question for any reason you might have for not wanting to get married at all or in the near future is "who hurt you?". Followed by "youre not getting younger", etc. So the push for marriage is on for guys, just as it is or was with girls

Damn. Those things have happend to me too. (Well, with the difference of being a woman of course). It's really scary how being in a relationship is seen as mandatory to a level that single people being cross-examined and bullied for 'failing' is seen as absolutely acceptable and not questioned at all.

[Eutierria]

5 hours ago, ElevenElysion said:

Today a classmate in his 60s, asked me 27, on a date. I thought he was just a friendly person but apparently that wasn't why he was being friendly and I am just disturbed.

I have noticed a pattern in some men (more attitude/belief system than age) where they feel entitled to your attention & get angry when you say no - avoid these people, run. 

 

The men who are 'friendly' to you with expectations of affection in return may be projecting their transactional style onto you & assuming you want to get to know them more intimately if you have been nice to them. 

 

There are also those who will see you as a statistic & have no genuine interest in you as a person & what you value. 

 

Unfortunately there are men out there who have been treated so badly that they will latch onto any ounce of kindness as romantic interest - this one trips me up & makes me really upset. I've had to have a conversation with an allo acquaintance before that kindness is baseline humanity - I'm not sure he really understood. 

 

5 hours ago, ElevenElysion said:

am okay with talking to anybody and I care a lot about other people and see them as full human beings. But I don't feel I am treated the same. I am supportive of the things they do not because I'm fond of them but because I respect them as human beings

I can relate to this. A lot of men have been brought up to expect care & labour so when they see signs of caring from you, they assume it's specifically for them & them only. 

 

Sometimes why someone is attracted to you have absolutely nothing to do with you at all but what they are going through & you just happen to be conveniently within proximity / perceived availability. 

 

I see from your profile that you're from Japan but I can't tell your heritage. If you are of Japanese descent & get a lot of attention from a specific type of men...that's called fetishisation. If you have to be around these people, talk about anything other than manga/anime/kanji/sushi/kawaii things etc. It's even more disturbing when they don't realise what they're doing. 

 

5 hours ago, ElevenElysion said:

Then from junior high I got way more "confessions" than before and I started getting scared. 

 

But I don't know why I am scared.

 

I have an immediately flight response and run away or I say extremely cruel things I don't mean as a coping mechanism or something.

What feelings surface for you in those moments? Is it disgust / mistrust / something else ? 

 

It can also be quite revealing to look into how you grew up - did you have reliable role-models around you ? What role did the men - father / uncle etc play in your upbringing ? Did you feel safe growing up or were you brought up in chaos? Once you've worked that out - you might get a step closer to figuring out why you react the way you do & decide whether that reaction still serves you as the version of you that you are now. 

 

5 hours ago, ElevenElysion said:

Is it because I'm a woman or is it because I'm asexual or both?

My guess is it's intersectional but also a lot more complex than being an asexual woman. 

 

I hope therapy helps you work this out. 

 

 

 

[uhtred]

Being concerned when someone doesn't accept a polite no is a completely reasonable reaction.       I think it is OK for someone to politely ask you on a date, and a polite "no thank you" sort of response if fine.  But if they push after that, I 100% understand your concerns. 

[daveb]

As a shy awkward nerdy guy I rarely asked anyone out and was never asked out by anyone. I do think it's best to say no up front if you are not interested. Although I understand the safety and/or or concerns issues, if they don't take it well or if they take it as a sign that further pursuit is needed.

[notatrickster]

17 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

This is why I posted on here! XD A lot of people I have talked to about this told me I was bragging or said they envied me because they've never been confessed to before. But like...I'd understand 1 or 2 confessions being nice but...everyday? Or 10+ attempts to display how they think I am the perfect girl despite knowing 2 or 3 extremely surface level things about me. Ex. I like video games and anime and I am a girl = I love you. That's not a confession of love. They are not in love with me (hence the quotes I used in the top post).

That is the most alienating feeling, omg.

 

Recently I move to a new town which is VERY small, everyone knows everyone kind of thing. Impossible to avoid people. So I am being especially patient and rolling with a lot of punches as some folks learn that I am not for them. But one dude just wouldn't back off. He was nice about it, on the surface being respectful; we already went through the part where he asks me out and I say I'm not about that life, but am keen to make friends in town if he can respect that that's all it will ever be.
 

Fair play, we hung out as new friends. But then he would come to my house and bring me all kinds of gifts including jewellery with 'friendship' stuff engraved. He texted me nonstop despite me replying to maybe 10% of them and being really clear that I don't like texting. He kept adding "for now" after "friends" every time it came up. One day we were out for a walk and out of nowhere he started telling me how he thought I was 'sO BeAuTiFuL' when he first saw me... and I was just like. Okay. This ends today.

I actually spoke up and said something to the effect of "Um, okay, that's a weird thing to say. Like no offense, but I don't care about your opinion of my looks. I'm sure you don't mean anything bad, but it's pretty rude and shallow to focus on my appearance like that. I'm not here to be beautiful for you. It's awkward having to sit through your comments on something that shouldn't even matter to a friend. Now I kinda feel like you're not actually interested in being friends, but that you're expecting something else. And I'm not comfortable with that."

He backpedaled, apologized, saying "oh yeah, I totally understand! We're just friends... for now!" :) FOR NOW. That damn 'for now' again! I Lost It Officially, and went on a bit of an aromantic rant lol. Or maybe it was an eloquent monologue, I don't know, I just let him have it. I was rattled. I believe I ended with "so you need to accept that we are not going to date. Ever. There is no circumstance under which you will be anything other than a buddy to me. Dating is simply not a thing I do. This kind of attention feels horrible for me, and if you truly want to try being my friend, it HAS to stop."

He did back off. Later he even apologized properly and owned up to how far out-of-line he really was. We see each other sometimes but it's awkward now. I miss our quad rides. That was fun. It does bum me out how often stuff like this actually holds me back from making friends. It's a big source of social anxiety for me at this point, which sucks because I'm trying to settle in in a new community. But I'm always on such high alert just WAITING for that moment when I will learn that, oh, this guy doesn't want to be my friend. They want something from me that I can't offer, or nothing to do with me at all.

This was a meandering way of saying YES - that is so incredibly alienating when people latch on to you because of something so impersonal and trivial, and then project all their hopes and dreams onto a version of you they make up in their head. And then have the AUDACITY to expect you to be impressed or moved, or to like. care. at all. why? because they saw you walking one day and visually enjoyed the way your molecules are arranged. lol okay.  I can't stop people from being attracted to me and there's no point being bothered by it, but I am tired of having to HEAR about it. "ur so pretty!" OMG TMI who even are you?

It's like the minute someone decides I'm good-looking to them, I stop being a whole person and become an Object of Desire (sexual or romantic, doesn't matter). From there, it doesn't matter that their attention is annoying in general, and uniquely upsetting to me personally. People don't seem to get that their 'compliments' just come across as shallow and dehumanizing, and they deal me emotional damage.

Damn, I keep going off in your thread. But yes. When I try to talk about how much this bothers me people brush it off like I'm bragging but I'm really not trying to. So it's nice to be able to vent about how much this affects the way I move through the world. I enjoy feeling like I look cool or nice or whatever I'm going for that day, but I'm tired of worrying about whether and what kind of extra unwanted attention I may have to deal with any time I feel like dressing up a bit or wearing some makeup.

(Also, hey, I too lived in Japan for a while! The amatanormativity was Out Of Hand lol but I really enjoyed my time there!)

[ElevenElysion]

57 minutes ago, Eutierria said:

I can relate to this. A lot of men have been brought up to expect care & labour so when they see signs of caring from you, they assume it's specifically for them & them only. 

 

Sometimes why someone is attracted to you have absolutely nothing to do with you at all but what they are going through & you just happen to be conveniently within proximity / perceived availability. 

 

I see from your profile that you're from Japan but I can't tell your heritage. If you are of Japanese descent & get a lot of attention from a specific type of men...that's called fetishisation. If you have to be around these people, talk about anything other than manga/anime/kanji/sushi/kawaii things etc. It's even more disturbing when they don't realise what they're doing. 

 

What feelings surface for you in those moments? Is it disgust / mistrust / something else ? 

 

It can also be quite revealing to look into how you grew up - did you have reliable role-models around you ? What role did the men - father / uncle etc play in your upbringing ? Did you feel safe growing up or were you brought up in chaos? Once you've worked that out - you might get a step closer to figuring out why you react the way you do & decide whether that reaction still serves you as the version of you that you are now. 

 

My guess is it's intersectional but also a lot more complex than being an asexual woman. 

 

I hope therapy helps you work this out. 

 

 

 

So actually the art class is actually a manga school and the guy asked me to read his manga and I did because it's good to get multiple opinions so I gave my opinions and some constructive criticism. That's exactly how I felt, like I was just showing basic consideration and he misunderstood or something...which sucks because I really wanted friends in that class. Nobody else talked to me except for the teacher.

 

Also I'm not Japanese but I live in Japan (I put it for the timezones and also I haven't been in America for 5+ years so I'd feel uncomfortable pretending I live there) but I think it's still probably fetization since I look very foreign. Also (to make this creepier) I have often been told I look like a junior high student and when I don't tell people what I do they ask me what school I go to (kinda funny). So there's the other kind so I get a lot of sexual harrassment in Japan more than I did in America.

 

 

I felt disgusted (because he's around my parents age), frustrated (I'm tired of this happening all the time), and then violated.

And then I had a panic attack (or anxiety attack?) when I got home and it's almost 4 am now and I still feel scared...lol

 

All he did was ask if I wanted to go on a date sometime...he didn't do anything else but I can't relax...:(

 

I have generalized anxiety disorder which could be related which I got from my mom also having or showing symptoms of it, but otherwise I had a happy childhood. And I didn't have any bad experiences with men or other boys ask a kid (that I know of...) and I usually get along better with boys than girls (when they don't end up confessing to me. It's a gamble).

 

I guess it kind of feels like my personal space, my privacy, is myself. So when somebody confesses to me it feels like they are claiming me and it feels like I'm being violated.

[Eutierria]

2 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

kind of feels like my personal space, my privacy, is myself. So when somebody confesses to me it feels like they are claiming me and it feels like I'm being violated.

If visualisations help, imagine that there is a wall of glass between you & the next person that confesses to you. Their confession lands on the glass & not on you. You can then side-step & imagine the confession sliding onto the floor. 

 

8 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

often been told I look like a junior high student and when I don't tell people what I do they ask me what school I go to (kinda funny). So there's the other kind so I get a lot of sexual harrassment in Japan more than I did in America.

 

Sorry to read that you've met so many predatory men. 

 

9 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

All he did was ask if I wanted to go on a date sometime...he didn't do anything else but I can't relax...:(

 

I have generalized anxiety disorder which could be related

Don't minimise your experience to make him feel comfortable. Your feelings are valid. It could be GAD and/or it could be your body picking up something your brain isn't able to articulate (yet). Wish you all the best in therapy in unpacking these elements. 

[ElevenElysion]

13 minutes ago, notatrickster said:

This was a meandering way of saying YES - that is so incredibly alienating when people latch on to you because of something so impersonal and trivial, and then project all their hopes and dreams onto a version of you they make up in their head. And then have the AUDACITY to expect you to be impressed or moved, or to like. care. at all. why? because they saw you walking one day and visually enjoyed the way your molecules are arranged. lol okay.  I can't stop people from being attracted to me and there's no point being bothered by it, but I am tired of having to HEAR about it. "ur so pretty!" OMG TMI who even are you?

It's like the minute someone decides I'm good-looking to them, I stop being a whole person and become an Object of Desire (sexual or romantic, doesn't matter). From there, it doesn't matter that their attention is annoying in general, and uniquely upsetting to me personally. People don't seem to get that their 'compliments' just come across as shallow and dehumanizing, and they deal me emotional damage.

Damn, I keep going off in your thread. But yes. When I try to talk about how much this bothers me people brush it off like I'm bragging but I'm really not trying to. So it's nice to be able to vent about how much this affects the way I move through the world. I enjoy feeling like I look cool or nice or whatever I'm going for that day, but I'm tired of worrying about whether and what kind of extra unwanted attention I may have to deal with any time I feel like dressing up a bit or wearing some makeup.

(Also, hey, I too lived in Japan for a while! The amatanormativity was Out Of Hand lol but I really enjoyed my time there!)

This feels like exactly what's going through my brain lol.

 

It's weird how many guys tell me I am beautiful as if I've never heard of this before. I do know a very old man who when he tells me this I do feel very flattered because he tells me it in a way that's like he's proud of his daughter. I don't get that from other men (and women tbf) who come up to me like that. It's like I am being claimed.

 

I was trying to figure out in my head...definitely next class he'll apologize and then I need to say something but all I can think of are like: I'm a human being, stop looking at me as a woman. 

or

Please never ever mention that to me ever again, I will never say yes.

 

Or going on a rant about it...

 

I think unfortunately I'll just have to ignore him because in the first place I am there to work on my manga and get feedback, not to chat.

 

And yeah, Japan. Surprisingly most of my coworkers aren't married and over 30. But I had an older man say that it's my duty to have children and that I'm being lazy and selfish to not having children by a certain age. There's always a mix of ideas...

[ElevenElysion]

17 minutes ago, Eutierria said:

If visualisations help, imagine that there is a wall of glass between you & the next person that confesses to you. Their confession lands on the glass & not on you. You can then side-step & imagine the confession sliding onto the floor. 

 

Sorry to read that you've met so many predatory men. 

 

Don't minimise your experience to make him feel comfortable. Your feelings are valid. It could be GAD and/or it could be your body picking up something your brain isn't able to articulate (yet). Wish you all the best in therapy in unpacking these elements. 

Thank you. You sound like a therapist! XD

[notatrickster]

14 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

It's weird how many guys tell me I am beautiful as if I've never heard of this before.

Hahaha I have had this exact thought xD Or when they tell me as if... I don't already know? I picked this look, sir - I know it slaps, what's your point?
I have worked very hard for the self-esteem I've built. I don't appreciate having my appearance evaluated in the cereal aisle, like I'm just wandering around waiting for validation from strange men, and will be grateful to know that there is AT LEAST one heroic boomer out there who still enjoys looking at me and wants me to know it, thank the gods.
 

14 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

It's like I am being claimed.

Yes, this, exactly. Why would anyone care what I look like to the point where they felt the need to approach me about it, if they weren't sort of 'bookmarking' me for a specific role in their life? A role which, incidentally, fills me with dread and disgust to even contemplate? Sometimes I feel bad, because I know there's nothing wrong with chatting up people you're drawn to. There are creeps and those pushy types, but a lot of sweeties too; folks who are really respectful and seem genuinely interested in getting to know me now that I have their attention. But that type of attention always feels just viscerally GROSS to me - like I can just FEEL my life being planned out by this stranger, and my future stolen out from under me in this Chili's tonight. It's not always on them, or because they're being weird. Sometimes it's just me being romance-repulsed and maybe projecting some anxieties, and I need to remind myself that I'm still in control and it's fine. Idk. It's hard to describe. I don't meet many people who feel like this.

 

14 minutes ago, ElevenElysion said:

Or going on a rant about it...

I have collected a series of salty clapbacks to creepy 'compliments'. I swear I am usually polite!! But like... historically, too much. Part of my healing process has been accessing my indignation when people are being gross, and responding accordingly. I have a HUGE amount of patience with people who are respectful. But I am proud to say I have my limits now! That was my first time ever telling somebody how I really felt about that kind of behaviour. Otherwise I'll just call it out, like "that's a weird thing to say." Or just a robotic "no, I'm not into it" if it's a pestering type situation. When people are being annoying, I get annoyed at them. Empowerment!
I guess the bottom line is to always hold that THEY are making it weird, you are NOT making it weird, no matter what you say or do. If he asks you out and you say anything other than yes, he needs to leave you alone, period, full stop. If he doesn't, you don't owe him patience or chances or the time of day. You can rant at that point and it would be epic.
But I guess depending on your level of conflict-tolerance, and the tone and manner in which he asked you out, all you need to do is say "no thanks". And that's it. He has to leave you alone and let you set the level of contact for a while.

[Geekykitty]

8 hours ago, ElevenElysion said:

I've learned to be kinder to people asking me out on dates, but I still feel fear, I want to cry, jump off a bridge, disappear. I feel violated even though they didn't do anything mean to me.

 

6 hours ago, ElevenElysion said:

think I learned in elementary school about the gentle 'no' doesn't work. It might be the origin of my fear. There are 2 boys when I was a kid who would not leave me alone

There's nothing wrong with anyone asking someone out on a date, but I get what you mean it can be awkward if you have to reject them. And yes if you had issues in the past with people hassling you for a date and not accepting your refusal then that can lead to fear. It is extremely creepy and wrong when someone keeps hassling someone to date them when you have already clearly said no. I don't know why some people do this 😡 it can be scary because you don't know what the person's problem is and why they're acting this way. 

I don't get asked out often at all which is good 😝 But one time I did have this customer at work turn into a crazy stalker and keep hanging around trying to talk to me and ask me out 😫 I think it can be particularly scary for a woman being pursued by a man in these situations. This guy freaked me out because he just wouldnt take no for an answer and kept giving me cards and notes saying he loved me - but he didnt know me at all! Its the other person's problem not yours if they can't accept that you're not interested. If you politely tell someone you don't want to date them and they persist in hassling you then they are the ones behaving inappropriately.

[The Abhorred]

I have the exact same reaction as you when someone expresses their interest in me, it makes me wanna run. I also get very negative emotions like anger or disgust and react badly. What I have understood is that one reason I do this is as others already said before me, the aggressive way some people flirt, that they don't just take no for an answer, their possessiveness, even objectification.
Like you, every time I shared my experiences with friends instead of finding support they were rude to me. Either because they believe that I should take that kind of interest as compliment or some because they were themselves were rejected rudely by someone in the past and they were identifying with the other person. Now I don't feel so alone in this because of the forum but I don't think I will stop wanna meep meep run the hell away every time in such occasion cause I'll never stop seeing those people like hungry coyotes. 

[Eutierria]

1 hour ago, ElevenElysion said:

You sound like a therapist! XD

I'm not, so please take my 'advice' as 'opinion' & only use what works for you.

 

All the best

[ElevenElysion]

7 hours ago, notatrickster said:

There are creeps and those pushy types, but a lot of sweeties too; folks who are really respectful and seem genuinely interested in getting to know me now that I have their attention. But that type of attention always feels just viscerally GROSS to me - like I can just FEEL my life being planned out by this stranger, and my future stolen out from under me in this Chili's tonight. It's not always on them, or because they're being weird. Sometimes it's just me being romance-repulsed and maybe projecting some anxieties, and I need to remind myself that I'm still in control and it's fine. Idk. It's hard to describe. I don't meet many people who feel like this.

There was this one guy who came up to me in the station on a day I was not feeling good (saw some bad news on tv and accidentally saw traumatizing material) and a guy came up to me extremely politely and asked if he could have my instagram and I said no immediately and he apologized and he said 'just as friends' which are the magic words for me and I was already in fight or flight mode because of seeing that bad news so I just ran away.

 

Even if they're being nice. Even if they're summoning up a lot of courage to just talk to someone and I want to support them in that my initial physical reaction is run.

 

I'm trying to do better with this because I do want friends so if I can persuade them to be a friend then its okay (I did this once at a game center because I wanted to play the game so I didn't want to run away).

 

I am not romance repulsed if I am the same age as them and we have lots in common and similar values. But often the person is much younger or much older or they know nothing about me or I know nothing about them. Iunno its very specific people I am okay with it but yeah if friends I don't feel okay with say stuff like that to me I run away. 

 

I think its like a role in my head. Like if I only go to a friend and be vulnerable with them but they aren't vulnerable with me and they say they love me I run away. But if we're equally vulnerable and they say they love me I'm okay with it (this was the only time I confessed but was rejected and the guy rejected me for the same reason I rejected other people so even though I was heart broken I didn't feel any negativity toward him cause I would have done the exact same thing). Balance is good.

[ElevenElysion]

7 hours ago, The Abhorred said:

I have the exact same reaction as you when someone expresses their interest in me, it makes me wanna run. I also get very negative emotions like anger or disgust and react badly. What I have understood is that one reason I do this is as others already said before me, the aggressive way some people flirt, that they don't just take no for an answer, their possessiveness, even objectification.
Like you, every time I shared my experiences with friends instead of finding support they were rude to me. Either because they believe that I should take that kind of interest as compliment or some because they were themselves were rejected rudely by someone in the past and they were identifying with the other person. Now I don't feel so alone in this because of the forum but I don't think I will stop wanna meep meep run the hell away every time in such occasion cause I'll never stop seeing those people like hungry coyotes. 

I am wondering if my fear really just comes from learned behavior from childhood. If you have a similar experience then that's probably it (I had a good childhood and I have lots of male friends and family so its just one isolated interaction it feels)

 

Yeah I feel the same way. I hate running away because sometimes (not in yesterday's case) the person is just making a mistake and could potentially be a good friend but they came at it at the wrong angle.

 

[Autumn ace]

As an asexual female, it’s both in my opinion and experience. I think it’s generally a fear that people are seeing you a certain way because of your gender or because of how oversexualized society is 

[The French Unicorn]

Not wanting to be asked out maybe an aro thing, but the fear may be a woman thing in the sense that it is more likely for women to develop that dear, due to have boundaries less likely to be respected (thanks sexism).

A lot of people learned that sexual attention can make someone uncomfortable, but forget that romantic attention can as well. And if you add this to a history of having your word and boundaries disrespected when you decline advances, it is not strange to develop fear of this happening again. And society makes it worst as it usually sides with the guy in this scenario ("you should give it a chance", "that's cute", "he doesn't give up" etc... No, insisting because you are in love is not cute !).

Also it can hurt when you realize the person is not looking the same king of relationship than you, and it is worst if it happened in a way that you feel used (for instance someone pretending they are ok to be friends but keeps pushing for romance).

However it is not healthy to be that scared so it is a good thing if you can work with this with your therapist.