Looking for advice: how do you cope with your asexual partner in a close relationship?

[seraphth]

Please bear with me and my long-winded introduction...

 

My partner and I have been together for 16 years (we met when I was 22 and she was 20). She's the love of my life, and I'm hers. We've been married for 5 years now.
We've always been very happy together. Except in our sex life. She never really shown any interest in me that way. We tried openly talk about it, and she often ended up in tears (no matter how delicate I tried to be). The thing that hurt (and hurts) me the most is not feeling "physically wanted" by her - while I am very much sexually attracted to her (always have been).

 

With time, I simply accepted that this was the reality for us: rare sexual encounters (once every month or two), always initiated by me, and always following the same path: a minute of petting (basically only by me), me giving her an orgasm via oral sex (which she "physiologically" enjoys), and then less than a minute of penetration for my orgasm (my times became incredibly short throughout the years). While this "arrangement" worked for her, I always felt incredibly frustrated. But I loved her, so I accepted it. And the time we spent in bed after both our orgasms has alway been very sweet.

 

Finally, after months of carefully introducing the topic, my wife accepted to see a sex therapist with me (something I tried to do literally for years). After a few sessions, the conclusion was that what we were already doing was the best we could achieve. So nothing really changed in practice, but it was wonderful to finally have a real conversation with her (via the therapist), so that we could put everything in the open, and without her tears (and my guilt for making her cry).

 

Fast-forward a few months. I came back from a work trip, and my wife tells me she visited another sex therapist, after having collected information while I was away (I was blown away - and very proud of her - by her sense of initiative of this difficult matter for her). While sobbing, she said she's about to drop a bomb on me, and she tells me she realised she's asexual. And I simply replied that it's ok, and that (after our conversations with the first sex therapist) I had already figured as much (I knew what that was, but she didn't). We talked about this, she shared with me a few resources to better understand her specific circumstances, and soon I'm going to visit the therapist she saw without me to learn as much as possible about the situation she (and I) live in.

 

The thing is: when my wife told me she was asexual, my initial though was "I'm happy she understands herself better, and it's not like this changes anything for me, so good news all around". But the truth is that I felt uneasy (more so than usual) since she told me. It's not like I actually believed our sex life had a chance to improve (or I should say "exist") after all these years. But now it feels as if even winning the lottery is out of the question (if you understand what I mean).

 

And the introduction is finally over...

 

Now that I know how she deeply relates about sex in general, I'm even more cautious in acting upon my sexual needs, because I feel (now more than ever) as if I would be "using her" (which is not far from the truth). She loves me, and she wants me happy, but I'm very, very self-conscious when it comes to ask her to do something for me: this is true in everyday life, and becomes a massive problem when I think about sex in these terms.

 

So my question is: how do you suggestion I cope with the situation? An open relationship is not on the table: for me it wouldn't feel right (it's her attentions that I want, and that I cannot have), and for her... let's just say it would be way more merciful to simply leave her than sleeping with other women. And while I keep telling myself my hormones will eventually give up and go to sleep (a mantra I used for years), I still feel some sort of... apprehension. Almost dread. As if one day I may very well wake up and realise I will never truly get used to it, and that this feeling will accompany me for the rest of my days. And the best/worst thing is that I'd be ok with it, because the idea of not spending what time I have left with the love of my life would feel even worse.

 

I'd be very grateful to receive any advice from people in my situation, or a similar situation, or anyone really who has something they wish to add.

 

Thank you for your attention this far, and apologies for the wall of text (it was the first time I put these feeling "on paper", and I got carried away a little bit...)

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by seraphth
typos

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Hi @seraphth

Besides whatever other tips you get, I would honestly talk to her about it because she's the only one who can tell you how she would or will feel to share in sexuality with you. So long as you're respectful of her feelings if ever she wouldn't be up to it, it doesn't mean she hates it necessarily, but it's bad to try to make it happen if she doesn't want. Sometimes doing something together as couple is still meaningful even if it's not something she's naturally drawn to. But it is important to know and care about how she feels of it.

 

I hope you can see that sexuality, or less of it, doesn't mean she doesn't want/love you. Her love languages are just different. Find what she likes to share with you and maybe you can both find how you express love together and it could hopefully add more to value, besides what's going on with sexuality. You might still feel how you do since you're not ace, but you can still bolster up everything else, since you want to stay together, and make it work as best you can.

[nanogretchen4]

Of the four possible mixed relationship resolutions, you are ruling out divorce and nonmonogamy.

 

A lot of people are going to give you advice for continuing to have sex with your wife, despite the many years of sex avoidant behavior making it very obvious that she does not want sex. They are going to suggest that you keep searching for some strategy to convince your wife to have sex more often or make her magically enjoy it. In addition to the impact this might have on your wife, consider the impact on yourself. Rare, unsatisfactory sex that you can neither predict or control is a form of intermittent reinforcement. Intermittent reinforcement makes the subject hope for and crave a reward much longer than either consistent positive reinforcement or no positive reinforcement at all. In other words, it might actually be easier for you to quit sex cold turkey.

 

I would suggest seriously exploring whether celibacy can work for you. You should probably give it a serious trial for a significant period, say six months or a year, and see how it works out. You could read advice from celibate clergy or other people who have adopted a celibate lifestyle. You could keep a journal and talk about your celibacy challenge with a therapist and/or a celibacy support group. As long as you are ruling out divorce and nonmonogamy this is probably going to be your most viable option and I think your energy and effort would better be spent on adjusting to celibacy than on hoping for a miracle.

[Sally]

As already mentioned, of the four possibilities in a mismatched-orientation situation, you have ruled out two.  That only leaves your wife having the sex that she does not want, or you not having the sex which you want.   Those two situations will leave you both unhappy.  As an asexual, I can tell you that your wife will not enjoy your unhappiness at not having sex, even though she will be relieved that she doesn't have to have something that she doesn't want.   You will not enjoy your wife's unhappiness at having to have the sex she doesn't want, even though you will be relieved that you will be able to have sex.   It seems obvious that both of you must talk together very realistically about what's best for both of you.    

[Philip027]

Quote

Now that I know how she deeply relates about sex in general, I'm even more cautious in acting upon my sexual needs, because I feel (now more than ever) as if I would be "using her" (which is not far from the truth). She loves me, and she wants me happy, but I'm very, very self-conscious when it comes to ask her to do something for me: this is true in everyday life, and becomes a massive problem when I think about sex in these terms.

I think the bolded is something worth looking into + working on on your end.  People in relationships (of any kind, not even just the romantic kind) regularly do this sort of thing -- not just with sex, but in general.  We can't handle all the things ourselves.  It's okay to at least ask for these things. 

 

As someone who's ace but still is fine with sex with their (sexual) partner, I would advise to stop fixating on the "asexual" term specifically for a moment.  Did she ever actually say/indicate to you that she would rather no longer engage in anything sexual with you?  Aces come in all shapes and sizes -- some are actively repulsed and elect never to have sex, but some are still fine with it or can even enjoy it, which it seems like your spouse has before to at least some degree.

 

Sure, you may never really be actively "desired" or initiated on in the way you'd prefer from an ace.  And for some sexual people, that isn't enough for them.  But I don't feel like you should just automatically resign yourself to a potentially even more unfavorable position just because your spouse discovered asexuality.  The apprehension/dread you describe doesn't leave me feeling like a celibate lifestyle would work out well for you.

 

I also don't know if you harbor any feelings of guilt over the sexual activity you used to have with your spouse before discovering her asexuality (it's sometimes an issue with sexual partners here in your kind of shoes, who've later discovered their partner's asexuality and suddenly feel like all their past sexual activity was like them violating their partners in some way).  But if you have them, I would also advise to try working on letting that go.  I highly doubt that's how your partner sees it, or how she wants you to feel.

[Guest]

Welcome @seraphth. I’m sorry you’ve had to find a place like this.

 

7 hours ago, seraphth said:

And while I keep telling myself my hormones will eventually give up and go to sleep (a mantra I used for years), I still feel some sort of... apprehension. Almost dread. As if one day I may very well wake up and realise I will never truly get used to it, and that this feeling will accompany me for the rest of my days

I’m sorry to tell you, but likely this feeling will not only stay with you, but it will get more difficult with time.
 

7 hours ago, seraphth said:

So my question is: how do you suggestion I cope with the situation?

This will not help you ‘cope,’ but I suggest you take the time to read the stories on this forum of others who have been in a similar situation for longer periods of time than the both of you. Doing so is unlikely to make you feel better, but it will make you understand the possible ramifications of the choices you make, and hopefully will stress the need for open communication, and an understanding of your own agency. You may get a better idea of what to discuss with your own therapist and the therapist your wife is seeing (sounds like you would have joint sessions with hers?). 
 

It sounds to me like you need some time for this to fully sink in. The only other suggestion I will make is that as you are processing all of this, hold off on fully committing yourself to anything. You sound like a loving and supportive partner. Your wife has gained insight about herself, yet in so doing, you have lost something. Allow yourself time to process, before you fully commit to any choices about what you are comfortable accepting. 

The option you seem to be leaning towards is very common for people to attempt the first time they come here. Take your time, mourn the relationship you had, the one you hoped for, and then after that is done, start to figure out what you want your new relationship to look like.  

 

5 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

A lot of people are going to give you advice for continuing to have sex with your wife, despite the many years of sex avoidant behavior making it very obvious that she does not want sex.

 

@nanogretchen4 - just quit this already. Can you please just quit with the assumptions? You are not the voice of all aces, and you sure as hell aren’t the voice of the non-aces in situations like this. He has his own agency, as does his wife. They need to decide what is right for each of them, and then they need to communicate with one another to decide if they want to create a shared vision of the future, and if so what it would look like. 
 

Non-aces here sure as shit don’t advocate or encourage the options you  seem to love to act like we talk about (hell, if there’s any option we talk too much about, it ain’t compromise). 
 

The only thing that is obvious in any of this is how you do not speak for all aces, considering it is an Ace in this thread suggesting to at least not close the door on that option without further communication and understanding. 
 

Your experiences are your own and no one else’s. Please, freely share your experiences and those ‘may’ help him communicate with his wife more effectively, but don’t presume you are her. Have you been in longterm, romantic relationship? Did you discover your asexuality while in a committed relationship? Awesome, share your experience, your struggles, how you communicated with your partner and why you arrived at whatever decision the both of you came to. 
 

It is not up to me, you, or anyone on this forum to decide what is right for him or her. 

[nanogretchen4]

It is up to both the OP's partner and the OP to decide how they are going to deal with their relationship, keeping in mind that either partner has the same absolute, no exceptions, right to say no to sex as every human being. The OP can use their own judgement, based on observing a pattern of their partner's behavior, words, and emotional reactions over a period of sixteen years, as to whether they believe their partner wants sex.

 

Obviously, there is a difference between wanting sex and consenting to sex out of fear that your partner will leave you if you don't have sex. However, if the OP's partner gives verbal consent to sex, that does not mean that the OP has to have sex with them. The OP also has an absolute right to say no to sex. The OP is free to say no and leave, whether or not that is the wife's preference, if that is what the OP needs to do. The OP is also free to say no to sex and stay.

 

It sounds like the OP is currently leaning in the direction of saying no to sex and staying, and has both hopes and fears about whether celibacy will be okay for them in the longrun. This is understandable, and I think committing to a period of celibacy for six months or a year, as an experiment and/or a personal challenge, could bring some clarity. Why fear what celibacy will be like for decades to come when you can try it out for six months or a year and make decisions based on actual information? However, rare sexual encounters at intervals the OP cannot predict or control are almost certainly causing more suffering for the OP than simple celibacy would. To get any meaningful information about what actual celibacy will be like, the OP must be in the mindset that there definitely will not be any sex at all for the duration of the experiment. It will also be important for the OP to have the mindset that during the experiment the reason that the OP is not having sex is the OP's commitment to abstaining for a specific period of time. The asexual partner is absolutely not the reason why the OP will not be having sex during the period that the OP has commited to be celibate. Regaining a sense of agency is an important component of undertaking celibacy on a voluntary basis.

[1122Silverfox]

Hi ya`ll,First time on this site and I didnt even know Asexual was a gender until very recent.I myself am a straight/not gay or bi-sexual.Really like woman ok.So Ive been friends with this chick and she is beautiful completely my type.We get along really good laugh and have fun together I take her out to eat buy her drinks all that stuff.Im 54 years old and I have a deep respect for woman and treat them with respect.I havent kissed her or even held her hand but I really want to a lot and I told her that.I asked her to dinner the other day and was just flirting with her like I always do and she told me dont waist my money on her shes not worth it.Well red flag for me,I said why would you say something like that about yourself,and she told me she was asexual and she doesnt want to be kissed or even hold hands and please dont think its personal she does like me and thinks im good looking and a great guy but she doesnt have them feelings toward anyone male or female.Added she hopes I find a great gal to be with.I should of said we were texting each other in this conversation,now ya`ll know.so I text her back,,,Ok its cool,but confused as to what that means.So before I text her anything else I got online and researched Asexual and have been trying to get some knowledge about this gender and some of the different (behaviors) maybe Im trying to say without offending anyone.I know there is an Asexual pride flag,...black,grey,white and purple.Im hoping she identifies as grey from what I have learned tonight.I dont really know what else to say except that I really like this chick A lot.She is pretty much everything I want in a woman but even with her telling me this I still want her and I thought I could try to talk to an Asexual group and maybe get a better perspective of how she feels and understand her emotions a little more.It will be hard for me to just be friends with her and not want to kiss her or just hold her In my arms and yes of course have sex with her.I have started to get some feelings as well for her.Anyone out there have any advice I can go off of.my main objective here is to continue this relationship but to further it more than friends.But if it cant work like that I needd to stop it now and go from there. 

[RileyA]

How does your wife suggest that you meet your need for sexual intimacy? It doesn't sound like she sees you not having any/enough sexual intimacy as a problem. 

 

This is why your efforts, IMO, will be wasted. It's her that needs to be wondering how your relationship will work too. 

 

@nanogretchen4 you seem very focused on PIV as what sex is. That's why you see people as either having sex, or not having sex. As a sexual person, I can't relate to that way of thinking. I only see it as celibacy if all sexual intimacy is prohibited. And honestly, if you're really about to remove sexual intimacy from your long-term romantic relationship with a sexual person,  then it's you that needs to be figuring out how you'll still make it work. 

 

It would be like if I decided that I'm happier living alone but still wanted my nesting partners to stay with me. It would be on me to show them how this could work for them. 

[nanogretchen4]

That is a fascinating thing to say to me because I am a demi bisexual woman who has had sexual relationships both with men and with women. I am really well aware that there are other types of sex besides PIV. The OP is also obviously aware since they routinely perform oral sex on their wife during each of their unsatisfying sexual encounters, one to two months apart, always initiated by the OP. I said not one word about PIV. The OP said not one word about the wife offering to enthusiastically initiate anything but PIV on a regular basis. I think there's a good chance that in 16 years together and several sessions with a sex therapist they have already explored the possibility that another way of having sex might be the solution. 

 

I am not particularly focused on PIV sex and never once mentioned it in this thread. I did bring it up in another thread as potentially leading to pregnancy, but that was seriously unrelated to the current thread. 

 

Yes, I agree that celibacy means no sexual intimacy, not just no PIV. Nobody is trying to remove sexual intimacy from the OP's relationship as far as I know, although the OP seems to be questioning whether sex with someone who goes through the motions without desire in an effort to maintain the relationship can be called sexual intimacy. Genuine sexual intimacy with an asexual person is often impossible through no fault of either partner.

 

Staying and trying to make it work, possibly without sexual intimacy, appears to be the choice the OP is leaning towards at least for now. Are nonmonogamy and splitting up choices that work well for some people? Sure, but the *OP* has expressed a wish to avoid both those options. So celibacy is looking like a distinct possibility. I am simply suggesting that the OP will learn more and probably be in a better mental and emotional state by willingly taking on celibacy, for a set period of time, and just seeing how it goes and what they can learn from the experience. What's the big deal? People do all sorts of challenges where they give things up for a period of time, and it is super common for sexual people to go without sex for six months or a year when they are between relationships.

 

The OP will not be permanently harmed if they choose to try this experiment. It will probably be at least somewhat interesting and educational. Even if the OP's conclusion is that longterm celibacy is worse for them than one of the other three options, that's useful information. Also, taking a total break from sex may help to break some suboptimal relationship dynamics around sex that have developed over 16 years.

[RileyA]

Alright, I mostly agree with you, @nanogretchen4. But I'd seldom advocate for celibacy or compromise with someone sex repulsed.

 

I guess, fundamentally, I'm a big advocate of Healthier Relationships for a whole load of reasons related to my sociopolitical values.

 

I think there is a thin line between compromise and sacrifice and the latter is to be avoided. I think sacrifice breeds resentment. I think resentment leads to unhealthy and even toxic relationships. 

 

I think they can lead to a vicious cycle where relationships breakdown and people take this baggage to future relationships. 

 

That's why I am probably so vehemently against things like:

18 hours ago, seraphth said:

And while I keep telling myself my hormones will eventually give up and go to sleep (a mantra I used for years),

Because it reduces the need for sexual intimacy to just a hormonal surge rather than a common human need. There's a lot of reasons I think it's negative for men, particularly, to buy into this belief. It's part of seeing the toxic side of masculinity as intrinsic to cis men rather than something we learn. Like it needs to be cured in #allmen. 

 

However, I agree that the OP having a different mindset would change this. I'd definitely feel more positive about this as a trial if it wasn't about effectively waiting for that need to die. Again, people associate the onset of age related ED as a sign that the need for sexual intimacy also fades. It's very reductive.

 

So, I suppose that's why I don't see sexual compromise in the form of unwanted sex or celibacy as an ethical options, yet see ENM or splitting as the only viable solutions.

 

But even ENM under these conditions has risks. I am also for a "healthy split" and I think that is increased by avoiding resentment. It's really common for people who only open their relationships to meet an unmet need for intimacy to end up monogamous with someone else. Or poly with people other than their original partner. Obviously for many mono partners, this was their fear so there are very negative feelings. 

 

A celibacy trial is not a big deal, but using it to map how you'll feel 3 years later is probably unwise. I'd probably do it, and if I felt I could continue, suggest an annual review where we rediscuss options. I'd not suggest it be a thing where we don't discuss it again unless it's spontaneously raised by one of us.

 

[Mountain House]

7 hours ago, 1122Silverfox said:

I needd to stop it now

Yep. She told you her truth.

 

Also, not a gender. Asexuality is a sexual orientation.

[Mountain House]

1 hour ago, RileyA said:

So, I suppose that's why I see ENM or splitting as the only viable solutions.

I could just about agree with this except I think there is room for experimentation and imagination in what a couple sees as viable intimacy bonding and redefining what sex is to the couple. Some people just don't know that it is okay to explore and throw away the idea of PIV being the only thing that is "true sex". I know that one couple out there in the sexual/asexual demographic cuddle together and have a room where the sexual plays alone. It works for them.

 

It takes a great deal of communication and honest effort and a willingness to accept that in the end, ENM or split may be the outcome.

[marius123]

22 hours ago, seraphth said:

But the truth is that I felt uneasy (more so than usual) since she told me. It's not like I actually believed our sex life had a chance to improve (or I should say "exist") after all these years. But now it feels as if even winning the lottery is out of the question (if you understand what I mean).

 

Hi @seraphth - sorry that you find yourself here.

 

I can't offer much/any advice other than to tell you the comment above is something I've been struggling with deeply in recent weeks. The fact that there isn't a (however unrealistic it was) chance for things to change in that way has me a bit lost. I hadn't realised how much I'd pinned on it over the years and admitting it is never (and was never) going to be any different isn't freeing, it's devastating and has me giving up in a number of ways. All I can offer on this is some empathy.

 

8 hours ago, RileyA said:

How does your wife suggest that you meet your need for sexual intimacy? It doesn't sound like she sees you not having any/enough sexual intimacy as a problem. 

This is another one for me. My wife simply doesn't understand that it's important to me. I can't blame her as such for that but it's hurtful and unhelpful. If you can possibly talk about that without conflict/upset then you're one up on me!

[Guest]

21 hours ago, nanogretchen4 said:

sounds like the OP is currently leaning in the direction of saying no to sex and staying, and has both hopes and fears about whether celibacy will be okay for them in the longrun.

He sounds like virtually every first time poster here who had the ace bomb dropped on them, and their fallback is to be the loving and committed partner. He, like many when they first come here with three doors already closed, for reasons they perceive to be not in their control or not in consideration of their own feelings (as I was when I came here). 
 

In short, he like many of us, sounds like he doesn’t fully appreciate his autonomy, and hasn’t fully communicated everything he needs to talk with his wife about.
 

He sounds like he is mourning his past relationship. 
 

Thank you @Philip027 for appreciating that there is just as much unknown information here as known, and whatever solution they decide, they need to communicate and understand one another more completely to have that conversation. 
 

12 hours ago, RileyA said:

So, I suppose that's why I don't see sexual compromise in the form of unwanted sex or celibacy as an ethical options, yet see ENM or splitting as the only viable solutions

Isn’t it more about their place in the conversation more than the viability as an option? They are directly opposing sacrifices. The whole conversation is about what is equitable, and if the partners choose an arrangement that is not equitable, they are at least doing so with a shared understanding of that fact. ENM fits into the progression of the conversation by allowing each partner to anchor to the inequities of celibacy and compromise (you get sex, and I am liberated from it). 
 

Finally, if that’s all discussed, and doesn’t work, then everyone can peacefully accept that it’s just not going to work. 
 

(yes, certain circumstances don’t fit completely, but anyway, that’s how I see the framework). 
 

Okay, I’m done. All the best to everyone! 
 

 

 

[anisotrophic]

I second @Philip027’s advice. “Asexual” is a word that will mean different things to different people that identify with it. Set it aside and understand what’s communicated — if it’s an absence of desire … but someone is responsive, can find sex a positive experience, and would like you to be able to initiate and have it with them … then as @Philip027 notes you may well be consigning yourself to a unnecessarily negative outcome if you make unwarranted assumptions.

 

 My husband seems to be similar to @Philip027… I had to push myself to get over it but got used to “using”. I focused on making it a positive experience and consider him very much only sexually aroused in a “responsive” pattern. I learned what contexts work best for him, what buttons to push. I also became more comfortable with sex that isn’t “standard penetrative sex”. On my husband’s part, it’s important for me (ie reassurance) to sometimes get positive feedback from him (usually right after because he’ll forget about it).

 

Edit to add: I also totally went through that period of grief and thinking I’ve been a monster. I had always thought or hoped he was just super shy about what he wanted.

[RileyA]

8 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

ENM fits into the progression of the conversation by allowing each partner to anchor to the inequities of celibacy and compromise (you get sex, and I am liberated from it). 

As I said earlier, I don't think ENM works that way a lot of the time, and I'm resentful about the number of people who "try poly" and then become critical of it when it doesn't work out. 

 

The people who get left for a different mono partner, or dumped for a more settled poly lifestyle, are prime candidates for becoming these critics. That's why I think outsourcing any core need to try and keep content in a relationship is a bad idea. I don't think it's much of a solution. 

 

However, I do think that you have an obligation to meet the core needs of your partner(s). I don't understand a person who attempts to pursue someone knowing they won't meet their core needs and not considering alternatives. So while I expect the ace person to be considering how their partner will still meet their needs within the confines of their relationship, I don't think sex outside is ideal if it's just to address this incompatibility.

[Traveler40]

41 minutes ago, RileyA said:

I don't think sex outside is ideal if it's just to address this incompatibility.

Agreed as it would fail at being fulfilling.

 

For most it wouldn’t solve issues, only create more.  I knew enough about myself and base needs to seek love and build a proper foundation first. True fulfillment stems from the pillars of Trust, Respect, Compatibility and Attraction imo.
 

I laugh when I read folks say, “It would be perfect if I could find another sexual married to an ace in my area to pair with.”  Simplified into absurd. 

[RileyA]

And you know, let's say this outsourced sex does mean you can stay in your sexless relationship, the whole context often means you're shitty to those other people. You see them as a filler, not as an autonomous human being with evolving needs. You get annoyed and irritated that they won't just stay in the little.box you've provided for them and not encroach on the precarious boundaries of your "primary" relationship.

 

I'm of the belief that you shouldn't have long term sexual relationships with people if you cannot be flexible to their naturally evolving need for more intimacy and connection over time. The reality is that many people using ENM (and specifically polyamory) as a way to deal with such incompatibility have the absolute strictest rules around what is and what isn't okay. So by my estimation, they're more likely to try and set up unethical and exploitative situations than people who aren't in relationships with unmet needs.

[seraphth]

On 11/3/2022 at 8:43 PM, nanogretchen4 said:

Rare, unsatisfactory sex that you can neither predict or control is a form of intermittent reinforcement. Intermittent reinforcement makes the subject hope for and crave a reward much longer than either consistent positive reinforcement or no positive reinforcement at all. In other words, it might actually be easier for you to quit sex cold turkey.

 

I would suggest seriously exploring whether celibacy can work for you. 

I have never considered the aspect of reinforcement - it's an interesting argument.

But I don't think celibacy is necessarily the only viable option. My wife really appreciate intimacy. As I mentioned, the moments we spend in bed after our orgasms is very tender and sweet, and she enjoys oral sex (although it doesn't cross her mind by herself). Combined with the very shorts times I developed for my orgasm (penetration lasts very little), she doesn't mind the act in itself too much. It's just that she will never feel the desire to initiate sex, or to do anything outside of the pattern I described in my initial post. Which is still a massive weight on my soul... but not enough to justify complete celibacy (she wouldn't like this option either).

[Traveler40]

18 minutes ago, seraphth said:

she wouldn't like this option either

There you have it. A variation unaccounted for and a reality for some aces. 
 

Compromise is a thing and doors can swing both ways.  Who knew?

 

Mixed relationships are tough and making it work takes both parties. It doesn’t matter the reasons, it comes down to the people involved.

[Traveler40]

7 hours ago, RileyA said:

I'm of the belief that you shouldn't have long term sexual relationships with people if you cannot be flexible to their naturally evolving need for more intimacy and connection over time.

Agreed. Soon, our family arrangement will reach six years and running. The amount of evolution that’s occurred is mind boggling. Flexibility and care for all, patience and not expecting a damn thing are key ingredients.

[Traveler40]

22 hours ago, RileyA said:

The reality is that many people using ENM (and specifically polyamory) as a way to deal with such incompatibility have the absolute strictest rules around what is and what isn't okay. So by my estimation, they're more likely to try and set up unethical and exploitative situations than people who aren't in relationships with unmet needs.

Maybe - I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I see how that could be the case.

 

I’m the idiot that didn’t do years of research, gather a ton of advice and books on the subject or immerse myself in knowledge before leaping. Basic plan, basic needs, basic folks and advanced people skills perhaps. With that backdrop, I have to say we started with some rules that are long gone. 
 

These days, we are left with awareness of each other (all three), care and understanding of natural boundaries and a desire for longevity which fuels it. One aspect that I think has been material is my lover’s desire to never, ever marginalize my husband. Ever.

 

Tbh that can be frustrating for me, but I see the truth and beauty in it. For example, I want my lover at everything. He wouldn’t think of it unless my husband wants him there first. Second is the peripherals. Only if both of those check out, will he join.

[nanogretchen4]

If you are quite sure that your wife enjoys and wants to continue your sex life as is, I guess that's good news. I don't quite understand, in that case, what has been causing all of her tears and your feelings of discomfort around continuing to have sex with her. I hope everything works out well.

[seraphth]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:05 PM, Philip027 said:

I think the bolded is something worth looking into + working on on your end.  People in relationships (of any kind, not even just the romantic kind) regularly do this sort of thing -- not just with sex, but in general.  We can't handle all the things ourselves.  It's okay to at least ask for these things. 

Yes, this is something I need to work on. Even my wife tells me that. I come from a family where my mother never received the respect and affection she deserved from my father, and this has always pushed me to do the exact opposite of that. But I know I go too far sometimes.

 

On 11/3/2022 at 11:05 PM, Philip027 said:

As someone who's ace but still is fine with sex with their (sexual) partner, I would advise to stop fixating on the "asexual" term specifically for a moment.  Did she ever actually say/indicate to you that she would rather no longer engage in anything sexual with you?  Aces come in all shapes and sizes -- some are actively repulsed and elect never to have sex, but some are still fine with it or can even enjoy it, which it seems like your spouse has before to at least some degree.

My wife does enjoy intimacy, but within limits (as I mentioned in my original post and described in my reply just before this one). I agree it's not as if she's repulsed by my touch. Still, it's... very difficult to adjust and not let myself being carried away with too much effusions (which I know she doesn't enjoy as I do).

 

On 11/3/2022 at 11:05 PM, Philip027 said:

I also don't know if you harbor any feelings of guilt over the sexual activity you used to have with your spouse before discovering her asexuality (it's sometimes an issue with sexual partners here in your kind of shoes, who've later discovered their partner's asexuality and suddenly feel like all their past sexual activity was like them violating their partners in some way).  But if you have them, I would also advise to try working on letting that go.  I highly doubt that's how your partner sees it, or how she wants you to feel.

I wouldn't say I feel guilt. I've always been kind and considerate, and never ever put pressure on her to have sex. But I do wish I knew these things years ago - we would have avoided a lot of difficult moments and stress.

[seraphth]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:57 AM, HiddenKS said:

I’m sorry to tell you, but likely this feeling will not only stay with you, but it will get more difficult with time.
 

This will not help you ‘cope,’ but I suggest you take the time to read the stories on this forum of others who have been in a similar situation for longer periods of time than the both of you.
[...]

It sounds to me like you need some time for this to fully sink in. The only other suggestion I will make is that as you are processing all of this, hold off on fully committing yourself to anything. You sound like a loving and supportive partner. Your wife has gained insight about herself, yet in so doing, you have lost something. Allow yourself time to process, before you fully commit to any choices about what you are comfortable accepting.

Thank you for your kind words. I will do as you suggested: take my time and learn about others' experiences.

And I do hope the feeling you mentioned at the beginning won't necessarily get more difficult (it is already quite arduous now...)

[seraphth]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:43 AM, RileyA said:

How does your wife suggest that you meet your need for sexual intimacy? It doesn't sound like she sees you not having any/enough sexual intimacy as a problem. 

This is why your efforts, IMO, will be wasted. It's her that needs to be wondering how your relationship will work too. 

I admit this is something I haven't stopped considering. I can't say there was really a proposal on her side. Most probably because the implicit idea is that things will simply go on as they always did (the pattern I described at the beginning of my original post), and that the new-coming  'asexual' label doesn't really change things in practice (which is basically true). But I wouldn't be honest if I said absolutely nothing changed for me.

[seraphth]

23 hours ago, marius123 said:

My wife simply doesn't understand that it's important to me. I can't blame her as such for that but it's hurtful and unhelpful. If you can possibly talk about that without conflict/upset then you're one up on me!

Sorry to hear about your situation. Are you sure it's about 'not understanding' instead of 'not knowing how to help you'? In my case it's the latter: my wife understands (as much as she can) this is a serious problem for me, but she does not know what she can do for me.

[seraphth]

39 minutes ago, nanogretchen4 said:

If you are quite sure that your wife enjoys and wants to continue your sex life as is, I guess that's good news. I don't quite understand, in that case, what has been causing all of her tears and your feelings of discomfort around continuing to have sex with her. I hope everything works out well.

It's difficult to describe in short posts. But I wouldn't call it a real sex life. Everything is very automatic, and devoid of true desire. It's... not a happy feeling.

[anisotrophic]

What barriers are there to you initiating more, switching it up more?