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Should the Gender Discussion forum be hidden? (feedback thread)


Gender Discussion forum  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Gender Discussion forum

    • Have completely hidden to guests/non-members (e.g. (h)AVEN - no public threads or posts. Not visible for all AVEN members--restricted access)
      2
    • Have completely hidden to guests/non-members (e.g. Tea and Sympathy- no public threads or posts. Visible for all AVEN members.)
      17
    • Have, partially, hidden to guests/non-members (e.g. Intersectionality - public thread titles, hidden posts)
      8
    • Keep as is, publicly visible to guests/non-members
      20

This poll is closed to new votes


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Hello, everyone!

 

Currently, the Gender Discussion forum is a publicly visible forum for guests/non-members, where members' threads/posts are indexed on the internet. Staff thought about possible options to help protect members' security, especially for non-binary, trans, etc. members, non-binary/trans allies, etc.

 

So, this poll is asking members of the Gender Discussion forum whether or not they might prefer to have the forum hidden (in one of the available options listed), where threads and/or posts won't be publicly indexed on the internet, or kept as is.

 

Thank you!

 

ETA: More info here: https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/259165-should-the-gender-discussion-forum-be-hidden-feedback-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1064868029

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Was there an example of what kind of situation would make an issue for a guest to see the section?

 

Personally I rather that anyone can look since they might gain from the talks without having to make an account.

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(I’m posting this as a regular member)

 

I know of several people who originally found AVEN via the gender forum (as opposed to asexuality). I’ve even seen the AVEN gender forum listed on another LGBT+ site as a friendly/safe/active place for people questioning their gender to ask questions.

 

I appreciate the forum’s regulars may prefer more privacy, so look forward to seeing which way this goes.

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1 hour ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Was there an example of what kind of situation would make an issue for a guest to see the section?

 

Personally I rather that anyone can look since they might gain from the talks without having to make an account.

I agree with this, as a lot of people need to find safer environments to talk about gender, but making them invisible to non-members would prevent people from joining as they wouldn't see a point to it. (Even if they're otherwise part of the ace community, as they may not feel the need to discuss that part of themselves in a forum setting.

 

The maximum level of privacy of the Gender Discussion forum should be having thread titles visible but the threads themselves requiring membership. I think that would still result in some issues above, but some people may still be inclined to join based on some of those thread titles.

 

An alternative—which has been used more than I see necessary, but could be more useful in this case—is to have a sub-forum under Gender Discussion that's like a gender-specific Tea & Sympathy. This one could be made private so that members can discuss their more sensitive gender issues and concerns there. The difference between this and regular Tea & Sympathy is that anybody who has been denied access to Gender Discussion for disciplinary reasons can't see it, while if they still have T&S access they could see sensitive gender threads there.

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Janus the Fox

As a Member, to keep things as is, because I think it's still important its still viewable and readable to Guests who look for their Gender questions before their sexuality questions.  To me, if that's invisible, that may turn away potential members who are looking primarily for gender questioning as a priority.  Over the years, this Forum is a bigger community for those without genders, or for lacking a binary gender, the same goes such as the QaA and Aromance forums.

 

I'd like the idea of a subforum within this Forum for those that is only questioning personal gender, not debating the genders of individuals and so on.  This what I can see that QaA has with it's Member Questioning subforum.

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40 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

...making them invisible to non-members would prevent people from joining as they wouldn't see a point to it...

There are ideas about options to help spread awareness about it. I'm just trying to follow Admods' breaching protocols and check for permission, first, before wanting to give a lengthy explanation to others' questions, comments, etc. about why this idea was brought up.

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1 hour ago, Snao Cone said:

An alternative—which has been used more than I see necessary, but could be more useful in this case—is to have a sub-forum under Gender Discussion that's like a gender-specific Tea & Sympathy. This one could be made private so that members can discuss their more sensitive gender issues and concerns there. The difference between this and regular Tea & Sympathy is that anybody who has been denied access to Gender Discussion for disciplinary reasons can't see it, while if they still have T&S access they could see sensitive gender threads there.

I feel this last idea is probably the best possible middle ground (if there are concerns), because then you have both, the gender section as it's been, but also a new sub-section in it for more sentive things someone wants to keep more private.

👍

 

 

Would like for a public section so people exploring can see and understand more around gender stuff and experiences.

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34 minutes ago, LeChat said:

 

There are ideas about options to help spread awareness about it. I'm just trying to follow Admods' breaching protocols and check for permission, first, before wanting to give a lengthy explanation to others' questions, comments, etc. about why this idea was brought up.

Okay, that will be nice to know when it's safe to share it with people. I'm sure there have been a number of sensitive situations that have brought this up in the backroom, so it's definitely a valid discussion to have.

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I can't see a single reason to have it hidden. As long as people don't post photos, identifying a person based on there avatar or user id is almost impossible. And because there is no real requirements for creating a account here i can't see a reason to why a person with sinister intentions would not take 5 minutes to create a account if it was hidden.

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21 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Okay, that will be nice to know when it's safe to share it with people. I'm sure there have been a number of sensitive situations that have brought this up in the backroom, so it's definitely a valid discussion to have.

Yes...just trying to get clarification on what would be okay to mention...will post as soon as possible, when given an okay...

 

If it helps to know, there's no reason for anyone to worry they might need to decide on this, right away. This thread and poll will be open for, at least, a week in order to make sure to give everyone enough time to discuss it, vote, etc.

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It just seems like change for the sake of change TBH.

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Hi, everyone. All I can say, currently, is that this change is being discussed and isn't something that has been lightly decided on.

 

Due to some issues, the Admod team are looking at making the gender forums private. We welcome feedback on this. I'll try to give more info, as soon as possible. Thank you, for your patience.

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RoseGoesToYale

As I've always understood it, hidden forums are done so mainly to prevent any of the threads in its contents from appearing in a web search. E.g. if I search "AVEN-specific memes" on google, AVEN appears in the results, but not the tread nor JFF. This makes sense for potentially distressing or self-revealing threads like in T&S or silly forums that are only relevant to members. But the thing about members' security is there's nothing stopping any rando from making an account and then viewing any hidden forum ad infinitum, and they won't get banned unless they start breaking rules.

 

So the question is, is there a reason why the contents of Gender Discussion should be kept off of search engines? Because unless AVEN implements some kind of pre-screen before people are allowed to join, it won't really be any more secure than it is now.

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1 hour ago, RoseGoesToYale said:

there's nothing stopping any rando from making an account and then viewing any hidden forum ad infinitum, and they won't get banned unless they start breaking rules.

That is my point, I don´t see how hiding a subforum will protect someone if it as easy as it is to create a account.

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I don't really have any personal stake in this, but does (h)AVEN still exist? If so, maybe that'd be a better place for all the more sensitive posts.

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J. van Deijck
59 minutes ago, Still said:

I don't really have any personal stake in this, but does (h)AVEN still exist? If so, maybe that'd be a better place for all the more sensitive posts.

Yes, it does. 

I've heard about some issues a few members have, so for their privacy, maybe there could be something done in that manner? Like, hidden for guests and also restricted access for members?

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I am sorry if I have offended someone.

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I just want to say that no decision has been made yet. That's why we are here looking for feedback from members. I understand there are pros and cons to various options, whether it's leaving things as they are, changing things to some level of privacy, etc. We want our discussions and decision on this to be informed by what you as members and regulars of the Gender forum think about it and what you want.

 

5 hours ago, Kimmie. said:

I am sorry if I have offended someone.

I haven't seen anything to be offended by.

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2 hours ago, daveb said:

I haven't seen anything to be offended by.

I was referring to me saying that hid it is basically meaningless because anyone can make a account. But based on the poll at least 11 people really don't agree with that and might have really personal reasons to why they think that. And i might have offended one of them by thinking like i do.

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Calligraphette_Coe

Intriguing idea, but keeping in mind that guests can't post, that tamps down the fear of being overun by MAGA-ites and rightwing haters. We all know they've been runing a low intensity war against against us that will probably continue into perpetuity in other venues, but we also know how to stay safe and when discretion is the better part of valor. By keeping it open to being read, we are like that Voice Crying in the Wilderness, seeking  Justice and Tolerance by being witnesses to what we feel and know.

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Hi, there, everyone. Thank you, for your patience, while I've worked on trying to get something approved to post. Here's more info. I tried answering some of your comments, questions, etc...just an important note that it's an abridged, non-breaching version...

 

Stats from trans organizations regarding trans, non-binary, gender nonconforming, etc. people, mention there are life issues/risks they're more likely to face than cis people, as an example, like discrimination from family, employers, housing, etc., physical harm from a partner, etc. that trans people on the internet have brought up that they have to worry about, deal with, etc., particularly those in conservative areas where LGBT+ isn't supported, understood, etc.

 

Yes; these things might not happen to all trans people, but it still happens/can happen for trans people who live in unsupportive areas, which is why safe, private online spaces can be important, essential, etc. for minorities, where they don't have to fear being outed or discovered by people they know.

 

Guests making an account would seem to help make the site more secure, easier for Admods to be aware of a member, in case they might harass trans, non-binary people in the Gender forum.

 

Sure. There's the (h)AVEN forum for people to post in, although that forum includes graphic, triggering content that some trans, non-binary, etc. members might want or need to avoid for their mental health, and, also, there are more trans and gender discussions and more trans, non-binary, etc. members in the Gender Discussion forum than in the (h)AVEN forum.

 

So, as an example, members might not want to miss out on that, being among other trans, non-binary, etc. people, yet, also, might like to have more security for the Gender Discussion forum.

 

There just was concern that this might be a security issue/problem with an idea of doing something to enable more security for members, particularly, trans, non-binary, etc. who are more risk being outed as trans, non-binary, etc. 

 

The thought was not making the information as easily available to the public (along with usernames and thread titles of trans, non-binary, etc. members, questioning members, etc.) might be beneficial, that it could make a huge difference from having a hidden forum where personal info about trans, non-binary people, etc. wouldn't be available on the internet.

 

So, this feedback thread and poll was about trying to find out/hear from trans, non-binary, etc. members in the Gender Discussion forum about this, whether or not they have any security concerns, etc., what might--if anything--help them feel more safe, etc.

 

Here's info from past Admods' discussion about deciding on whether or not to hide the Tea and Sympathy forum; there were similar thoughts behind this project: https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/62546-making-ts-member-only-ready-to-move/

 

I hope this helps explain things a little better. Thanks, everyone, for your feedback, so far.

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Also, it's possible there would be other, public options of helping promote a hidden Gender forum to others (i.e. guests/non-members) who might be interested in it or need it, like an Announcements thread about the new change; through members' discussions on the public forums about the hidden Gender forum; and, for example, someone like me, who'd be willing to help promote it in their signature.

 

Promoting AVEN links in a signature can be helpful and effective; as an example, out of the 80,000 total views the Welcome Lounge Forum Guide has had for several years, 30,000 were from the past year I've been an Admod, having it in my signature.

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J. van Deijck

I just wanted to say that I've noticed some members talking about increased transphobia here and I don't understand it. People have the right to identify with whatever they feel like, and nobody has the right to question it. This forum is generally safe and welcoming to everyone, and I'd love it to stay this way, and I would be sad seeing some wonderful people here leave. :(

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Janus the Fox

I’d like the idea of just a visible link to guests looking at this site logged off.

 

If moderation is lacking in Gender, some ideas made here can be taken back to be discussed.

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As someone that has posted in the gender section at times I've found it embarrassing and uncomfortable knowing people not struggling with gender identity could walk in and read what I've said. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a special private section only available to people struggling with gender identity. Most resources should stay public though because it's good for people to read and learn about the subject and get help if needed.

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AVEN is a LGBTQ+ community website/forum to start with so hiding the gender sub forum will not stop people from thinking that there are trans people on AVEN. Again anyone can make a account to spy.

 

But as usual i can be wrong.

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My opinion hasn't changed on wanting non-members to be able to gain from discussion in the gender forum, but that doesn't prevent the creation of a safer sub-section like @Snao Conementioned. The poll is even between show or not show so I think it could be a great way to handle both. Whether it's just hidden from guests like T&S or would need invitation into like (H)aven.

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