Jump to content

a quick discussion on relationship anarchy please


Recommended Posts

Lysandre, the Star-Crossed

Okay, so the obligatory first question are...
 

  • Do you identify as monogamous?
  • What issues are you having with your husband?
  • Why is separation on the table, has a lot happened to lead up to it?
  • Why does relationship anarchy appeal to you, or do you already identify with it?
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

im not strictly monogamous 

my husband is asexual im allo

im downtrodden with compromise 

im on retreat have just moved house have a holiday lined up and a loving husband and it’s still not enough 

he feels like a safety net

i am longing to get out of the box, light is coming in and i want it

i can’t see another way to find someone else / have freedom 

freedom isn’t even it i need someone to get me

to see me

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kamel said:

im not strictly monogamous 

my husband is asexual im allo

im downtrodden with compromise 

im on retreat have just moved house have a holiday lined up and a loving husband and it’s still not enough 

he feels like a safety net

i am longing to get out of the box, light is coming in and i want it

i can’t see another way to find someone else / have freedom 

freedom isn’t even it i need someone to get me

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain_Tass

@kamel I'm polyamorous, and my polyamory style is very close to relationship anarchy. What this means for me is that

 

1) I don't really have a hierarchy of importance with which I rank the people in my life according to who they are to me. For example a romantic/sexual partner won't automatically be "more important" to me than my best friends (or another romantic/sexual partner). I reject the notion that the people in my life can be ranked, I simply turn to different people according to circumstances.

 

2) I can be romantically/sexually involved with many people at once, and, just because I fall for a new person if I'm already in a relationship, it doesn't mean I've also fallen out of love with my partner, I just happen to love them both, much like how monogamous people can have many very close friends. Of course, I'm open about that to every potential partner, and of course, it's absolutely not a problem if my partner also falls for someone else while they're dating me. The problem is if they stay in a relationship with me if they feel like it's not working out and that they'd rather be with other people, but they keep me around because, who knows? Communication is key.

 

But, I might also end up in a single-person relationship and just not wish to pursue anyone else romantically/sexually for whatever reason, in which case the relationship might resemble a monogamous relationship from the outside. Hell, I'm currently single and happy being single, that doesn't make me any less polyamorous.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@kamel aww sorry what you are going through, marriages are so difficult these days, I'm not married because it's so much hard work but some of my friends are married, I even got divorced friends. Ace-allo relationships are difficult to be honest, lots of uncomfortable compromising on both sides, anybody who says they "can make it work" is seriously disguising/hiding the pain on both sides.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, WZZ said:

I dont know. There are so many points on the spectrum under asexuality alone that I'm not sure I believe wholesale that all mixed relationships are simply burying the pain.

 

Like...maybe a low libido sexual and a sex positive ace can both be very content with their arrangement, for example

Yes well I guess it depends on the individuals in the relationship...how much each individual can tolerate... for me, I don't tolerate sex at all...after I broke up with my ex who I knew as just friends for 15 years, I packed up that idea of marriage for me and I definitely don't want sex again (sorry allos).

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kamel said:

how does this work for you?

How does what work for us?

Link to post
Share on other sites
RoseGoesToYale

As I understand it, relationship anarchy means a couple defining their own rules for the relationship and not holding the other person/people to rules not mutually agreed upon, so the way said relationship works is going to vary a lot from couple to couple (or throuple or whatever). What works for one person might not work for or even apply to another's situation. If it's something both you and your husband want to pursue, I would suggest researching it and discussing which rules and parameters you'd both be willing to agree to or change, especially regarding openness, exclusivity and emotional intimacy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Queerdo

I don't see how relationship anarchy can really work for a person without some strong ethical commitments. For me, I find amato/heteronormativity to be deeply dysphoric on both a relationship and gender identity level. I feel that expecting a person's sexuality to be focused on me over long periods of growth is unrealistic and unethical. And the same is true in reverse since I also need space where I can be averse without triggering jealousy or insecurity. There are many kinds of relationships, and I see little problem with a relationship evolving over time.

 

And on the other hand, ideally I want a large family of choice where those bonds are not necessarily romantic, sexual, or genetic kinship. The anarchy allows for "platonic" relationships to exist on their own terms as well.

 

There are other forms of ethical nonmonogamy to consider. But phrases like "downtrodden with compromise" sound like a red flag that some time away to consider needs might be a good idea.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It means that we create the expectations we want within our interpersonal relationships.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Queerdo

But is that really anarchism? The game design industry is notorious for exploiting labor on the grounds that it's a labor of love. I don't feel that's ethical, even though all names on the contact created those expectations.

 

But, we don't need to structure our relationships in to he same way. I discussed how it works for me. How does it work for you?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Lysandre, the Star-Crossed
4 hours ago, kamel said:

im not strictly monogamous 

my husband is asexual im allo

im downtrodden with compromise 

im on retreat have just moved house have a holiday lined up and a loving husband and it’s still not enough 

he feels like a safety net

i am longing to get out of the box, light is coming in and i want it

i can’t see another way to find someone else / have freedom 

freedom isn’t even it i need someone to get me

to see me

Okay, so for me relationship anarchy looks like this...

 

I'm strictly non-monogamous, to the point where asking me for exclusivity would probably get somebody laughed at. Loyalty to me isn't that you promise exclusivity or compromise who you are for someone, it's that you come back to them time and time again despite refusing to.

 

My nesting partner (romantic, financial, and domestic relationship) is almost like my safety net. She's by default the person I'm with the most and share the most with, but she's not my "wife". Our relationship has never been sexual and honestly isn't that romantic, but we get each other and are emotionally supportive of each other's needs. Compare and contrast her with my other girlfriend (sexual, romantic, possibly soon to be professional relationship) and my non-binary partner (long distance sexual, kinky, and romantic relationship). 

 

Relationship anarchy spoke to me as an ideology because I failed at both monogamy and traditional polyamory. I don't differentiate between types of relationships or between loving and other relationship types, it's all highly fluid for me.

 

Ultimately I think the test for relationship anarchy is to reflect honestly on what your approach to relationships is. If you piece relationship structures together from individual components, there's a strong chance you may be a relationship anarchist. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
nanogretchen4

Kamel, although you describe your husband as "loving", everything else you say about your current relationship sounds negative. You say that your marriage feels like a safety net. My suspicion is that if you opened the marriage you would be consciously or unconsciously looking for a replacement spouse and would end up divorcing your current spouse as soon as you found one. In that case the fair and classy thing to do is to separate from the current spouse without involving a third party, then be open and honest about looking for a new partner. In addition to the ethical considerations, you will meet more people interested in a commited relationship if you are single and available than if you are married to someone else.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest Queerdo said:

But is that really anarchism? The game design industry is notorious for exploiting labor on the grounds that it's a labor of love. I don't feel that's ethical, even though all names on the contact created those expectations.

 

But, we don't need to structure our relationships in to he same way. I discussed how it works for me. How does it work for you?

 

RA isn't inherently ethical. You have to behave in ways that are ethical. No relationship style is inherently ethical. You can be a RA and a total bastard to your partners. 

 

It doesn't stop you being a shitty, inconsiderate partner if that's who you are.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tried to fit into a heterosexual marriage for over 30 years but the compromise has made us both unhappy. I am definitely not lesbian and have rarely felt like leaving my husband but I can’t tolerate more than holding hands and platonic cuddling. We sleep in separate rooms although have two children in their 20’s. I have pretended to enjoy sex in the past but the compromise has always been mine. He got what he wanted occasionally and I had to suffer something I find repulsive every time. In the end I refused sex and told him to find it elsewhere. He never has. We would both be worse off if we separated as our standard of living would be far worse and we would both be lonely. So we remain together and on the surface are a ‘normal’ couple. I only came out to my family last week and although initially this felt like a relief I now feel even more isolated as it isn’t discussed. To split or not to split needs careful consideration!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Queerdo
3 hours ago, RileyA said:

RA isn't inherently ethical. You have to behave in ways that are ethical. No relationship style is inherently ethical. You can be a RA and a total bastard to your partners. 

Anarchism is a system of political and ethical thought. Granted, no system of ethics is perfect, or practiced perfectly. But it's perfectly valid to come to RA through radical queer ideas about power in relationships.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Queerdo

Nevermind that this ethical debate is a sidebar to the question as to whether nonmonogamy is going to fix emotional conflicts in a current relationship. It probably won't.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

Anarchism is a system of political and ethical thought. Granted, no system of ethics is perfect, or practiced perfectly. But it's perfectly valid to come to RA through radical queer ideas about power in relationships.

 

Yes of course.

 

The point is that merely organizing your relationships under the umbrella of RA doesn't make them ethical. Ethical is subjective. I don't think it's ethical to have some sexual relationships with autonomous, consenting,  adults. Doesn't mean I'm right even if it makes me a nice person because I won't. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Queerdo
1 minute ago, RileyA said:

 

Yes of course.

 

The point is that merely organizing your relationships under the umbrella of RA doesn't make them ethical. Ethical is subjective. I don't think it's ethical to have some sexual relationships with autonomous, consenting,  adults. Doesn't mean I'm right even if it makes me a nice person because I won't. 

 

 

Doesn't make them anarchist either, imo. But you can have a different option.

 

It's like asking whether I should organize my relationships under an umbrella of monastic celibacy without dedication to the religious ideas behind that lifestyle.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Lysandre, the Star-Crossed
4 hours ago, RileyA said:

RA isn't inherently ethical. You have to behave in ways that are ethical. No relationship style is inherently ethical. You can be a RA and a total bastard to your partners. 

 

It doesn't stop you being a shitty, inconsiderate partner if that's who you are.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. In my opinion RA stems more from hedonism or Stirner's brand of egoism than traditional anarchism. There's nothing inherently ethical or unethical about it, frankly some of the worst people I've ever met or read about are arguably relationship anarchists as well. On one end you've got people like me, on the other you've got the CEO who's banging his secretary, hires his nephew to the board without qualifications, co-parents a secret illegitimate child with an intern, and lives out a sham marriage with his wife for the sake of appearances. He's arguably as RA as I am, based on the atomized relationships and freeform structure way of modeling it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest Queerdo said:

Nevermind that this ethical debate is a sidebar to the question as to whether nonmonogamy is going to fix emotional conflicts in a current relationship. It probably won't.

I know people from many cultures that accept nonmonogamy like Polygamy, men having multiple wives is seen as ok. I personally know a family friend who grew up in a polygamous upbringing but I don't know why she doesn't speak to me, it's like she has anger problems the last time I went for lunch with her to chit-chat, hope we can be friends again but highly doubt it.  And in my town there are sister wives. My town is very backwards 🤣

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Latestarter said:

I have tried to fit into a heterosexual marriage for over 30 years but the compromise has made us both unhappy. I am definitely not lesbian and have rarely felt like leaving my husband but I can’t tolerate more than holding hands and platonic cuddling. We sleep in separate rooms although have two children in their 20’s. I have pretended to enjoy sex in the past but the compromise has always been mine. He got what he wanted occasionally and I had to suffer something I find repulsive every time. In the end I refused sex and told him to find it elsewhere. He never has. We would both be worse off if we separated as our standard of living would be far worse and we would both be lonely. So we remain together and on the surface are a ‘normal’ couple. I only came out to my family last week and although initially this felt like a relief I now feel even more isolated as it isn’t discussed. To split or not to split needs careful consideration!

hi latestarter - - we're in similar spots -- I'm the allo one but my wife can't accept that she is ace and coming out is too much for her to bear or to face.  May I ask, have you always accepted being ace?  Did you come out to your kids as well?  How did your kids respond?  I admire your ability to share this  and I wish my wife could do the same.   Like you, we have been married for over thirty years with 2 kids - my wife is completely repulsed and can't tolerate any contact outside of holding hands and platonic hugs - sex is out of the question - I won't make her do something she so clearly dislikes...and we too look like everything is fine...  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, your situation sounds just like mine. I’d never heard the word asexual until this year (apart from in Biology lessons). I researched it and realised it matches the way I feel exactly. I’ve been trying to fit into the expected relationship pattern that people of my age grew up with but it hadn’t worked out the way I thought. I wanted the happy marriage and children but thought that I just have a low libido. Actually I’ve not got one at all. I dislike sex in any form but feel fine amongst men as long as they remain as friends. My husband struggled to get married and have children but could never explain why. Only last week he told me that he always knew there was something wrong but didn’t know what. He has developed depression and an in depth discussion with the doctor about all aspects of his life has finally shown him what it is. We talked in the car on the way home and he accepts that nothing will change although he can’t picture what the next 30 years of his life might look like. I had to explain to my eldest son why my husband says I’ve rejected him. He’s fine with it and says he’s proud of me for having the courage to say it. He told the younger one who just said fair enough - standard response for him. I’m glad you respect your wife’s boundaries as my husband does mine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Latestarter said:

Wow, your situation sounds just like mine. I’d never heard the word asexual until this year (apart from in Biology lessons). I researched it and realised it matches the way I feel exactly. I’ve been trying to fit into the expected relationship pattern that people of my age grew up with but it hadn’t worked out the way I thought. I wanted the happy marriage and children but thought that I just have a low libido. Actually I’ve not got one at all. I dislike sex in any form but feel fine amongst men as long as they remain as friends. My husband struggled to get married and have children but could never explain why. Only last week he told me that he always knew there was something wrong but didn’t know what. He has developed depression and an in depth discussion with the doctor about all aspects of his life has finally shown him what it is. We talked in the car on the way home and he accepts that nothing will change although he can’t picture what the next 30 years of his life might look like. I had to explain to my eldest son why my husband says I’ve rejected him. He’s fine with it and says he’s proud of me for having the courage to say it. He told the younger one who just said fair enough - standard response for him. I’m glad you respect your wife’s boundaries as my husband does mine.

Crazy.  Like your husband, I always knew something wasn't "right" since the beginning.  If he's like me (and like so many folks who find themselves in this situation, I suspect) he has internalized much of this and question(ed/s) his self worth, his attractiveness, etc...so on the allo side it requires some serious rebuilding, imho.... But your clarity on your orientation is so enormously important - and your son's acceptance is such a gift!  - - I know how hard this has been for you (because I know how hard this has been for us) and  I'd love for my wife (and I)  to get to where you already are...I think shame and embarassment are huge obstacles for my wife and I understand that BUT I see how much healthier acceptance is.  

 

Is your circle of friends wide and are you sharing this outside of your family or are you considering that and if so, how have you processed people's responses?   Thank you again and again and again for sharing your story -- it means so much...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Please reassure your wife that she has nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. She is a valued wife and mother. Some ‘normal’ marriages are full of fear, shame, violence and embarrassment and those involved often cannot tell anyone about it. I’d rather live my life as it currently is and I hope you both can feel the same.

 

Sadly I don’t have any friends as such, only acquaintances and neighbours.  Another aspect of my personality is that I can’t get close to people because I feel I might get hurt.  I don’t fit with the conversations of married acquaintances. My husband’s sister has a very happy and physical marriage and I envy her but know I can’t be like her.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Latestarter said:

Please reassure your wife that she has nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. She is a valued wife and mother. Some ‘normal’ marriages are full of fear, shame, violence and embarrassment and those involved often cannot tell anyone about it. I’d rather live my life as it currently is and I hope you both can feel the same.

 

Sadly I don’t have any friends as such, only acquaintances and neighbours.  Another aspect of my personality is that I can’t get close to people because I feel I might get hurt.  I don’t fit with the conversations of married acquaintances. My husband’s sister has a very happy and physical marriage and I envy her but know I can’t be like her.

Technology offers some surprises, ehh? 😉. You can't get close to people and yet here we are, openly discussing intimate details of our lives - - thank you, Internet!  lol

-- my wife and I have a circle of very accepting (and mixed orientation) friends and family but my wife can't reconcile her orientation and since she can't accept it herself, she can't reveal it to anyone else.  I have a couple of very understanding friends whom I have confided in but I think the dilemma for folks on the ace side of this is that most people who you talk to simply can't accept/parse/understand/grok asexuality as a true orientation, instead seeing it as a disorder.   And after so many years, although it is overwhelming to contemplate a separation  that's where we are. 

 

I looked back at how you started this discussion and it was around separating or not.  We face similar financial concerns so late in our lives, but I can't avoid the idea that together only one of us can be true to our identities...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...