A brief rant/vent or whatever

[Traveler40]

3 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

If someone is hardcore Demi, that’s an aspect of the spectrum, but no one could ‘really’ could identify as Demi until they actually found that connection. Ace ain’t easy, and who ever knows WTF ‘spectrum,’ ever really means? 

The label doesn’t matter @hiddenks - you’re getting stuck in the weeds which is part of “the cycle”. 
 

Look at what you know. You’ve been together for 18 years. A flipped switch is simply that. I default to facts at hand. 
 

I’m unabashedly sexual. It’s a drive. Even when pissed off, I ache to work it out with my lover between the sheets, against the wall, in the shower, backwards, forwards or even upside down on the floor.  Sex is always, always a need. It’s not a switch that suddenly flips. 
 

Sure, that’s my story and anecdotal, but somewhere in there is a thread that binds the sexual experience. You have over 18 years of data that led you here. Work through it in honesty.
 

You’re not going anywhere, she seems to be staying put as well. The sooner you get to the base, the sooner you can build up from there. 
 

Anyhow, I have a concert to attend. Happy weekend everyone! 👋🏼 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Also, demi is on the spectrum. You need to ask yourself, if she was demi, then why were you celibate for the time you were? It’s incongruent. You have to work it out for yourself though.

Oh, I’m not saying she is or isn’t. Demi is an example of the complexities of asexuality. We’ve considered it. She hadn’t been an emotional person in the past, so part of me wonders if she hasn’t actually felt truly connected to me till now. Overall though, really trying to not label. Labels often can be a prison (that someone can put on you or you can put on yourself, with the latter being more damaging potentially). 
 

23 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

While I speak my mind, I’m rooting for the best outcome for you both, however that looks. It is not my intent to knock what’s happening. My perspective is farther away and may be useful, or not. 

And I appreciate you are speaking your mind (though @TheWife11 may disagree). 
 

I’m figuring so much out here the counterpoint to everything is critical. 

25 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Y’all were a bit too euphoric at the outset which smacked of “first days of therapy” euphoria. That is, before the real work starts….

We’re great at smoothing out the tough bits, and rationalizing our choices after the fact, and that’s why I’m trying to give the real time, stream of consciousness. All of this is too complicated to only get the snapshot of an insightful and magical resolution. 
 

Thank you for your replies.

 

Okay, like four replies came in since I started typing, so REALLY gonna stop looking for a while and catch up later! 

[Mountain House]

2 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

@anisotrophic should be read and reread. Their thoughts are such a value to me. Thank you as always. 

✋ Second.

 

3 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

there's two sides of a coin in "poly" -- (1) capacity to be okay with a partner having other partners ... (2) desire and capacity to have multiple partners

My perspective:

 

Polyamorous and monogamous are relationship agreements. In that light, for a relationship to be polyamorous, #1 is required of both partners and #2 is not.

 

And from there the language gets confusing. If asked, yes, I am poly and I am in a poly relationship with my wife.

 

 

[Windmills of My Mind]

4 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

You have a hint of optimism. A hint of progress, and resolve to alter your situation. I dunno, but it seems like you have a little more belief that you do have some measure of control. Like me though, not at a point where you know a result, still confused, but shades that it at least may be possible to break the cycle. 
 

It also appears from other posts that you’re putting in the work, reading some of the things folks like @Mountain House suggested. Most people come here, make a couple posts, but disappear or wallow. You appear so far at least like you’re trying to do something about it. 
 

We’ll both have setbacks, probably both break down in the future, but we’re trying, right? 

Yep, that is all quite right. At least things are moving here, with setbacks and breakdowns indeed. And I will no later than by the end of this year have a decisive point for myself. I'm done with the dreadful cycle. People like @Mountain House, @Traveler40, @Ceebs, @RileyA are great inspiration and support for me. And I'm sure I forget some names here.

 

Kudos to you and @TheWife11 for sharing your progress here, both of you. Invaluable to have both your perspectives.

[RileyA]

13 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

Why is it that so many of our partners, like your husband do not identify? I mean ace isn’t a simple, and clear label. 
 

I guess when you adopt the label, it feels final. You're saying I am this, it won't change, are you okay with it or not? It's almost like an ultimatum.

 

Another user said that sexuals often give each other bad advice about mixed relationships; advice that doesn't "work". I wonder if we should be aiming for the advice to "work" as such. In this context, "working" would mean some level of encouraging compromise or even sacrifice. I think perhaps the goal should be closer to simplifying their situation to the bare facts. 

[Mountain House]

8 hours ago, RileyA said:

Another user said that sexuals often give each other bad advice about mixed relationships; advice that doesn't "work".

I can't find that conversation. I'm searching "bad advice". Do you have a link?

 

I know I certainly don't want to be giving bad advice.

 

8 hours ago, RileyA said:

I think perhaps the goal should be closer to simplifying their situation to the bare facts.

You do realize that people have to walk their own paths.?

 

8 hours ago, RileyA said:

"working" would mean some level of encouraging compromise or even sacrifice.

The advice we give is to point out that there are only 4 options we know for moving forward and I feel that the community is comfortable helping people move along whichever path they feel will work for them. That's about as simple and bare fact as you can get.

 

We do see some every now and then that will argue for a bit that there must be some other solution. Noone has come up with one yet.

 

I think "working" is for the couple to define.

[Guest]

On 9/30/2022 at 11:54 AM, anisotrophic said:

Then I did fall in love, a handful of years ago, while not seeking it. That never was romantic, but it has evolved to be a friend who matters as much to me as a partner might -- and so my capacity to "bond" to multiple people turned out to exist (but I never knew it, it was chance rather than sought, and it has been a strange thing to experience). I think it's been a source of support that's helped me get through a period of marital distress -- stabilizing rather than destabilizing.

@anisotrophic - I’m sorry, I haven’t read much about your relationship structure. Can you explain more about this relationship,  since you’re referring to them as a deep friendship. Is this a romantic/sexual relationship in some way? 
 

Apologies and perhaps I just need to read more of your post history. 

[anisotrophic]

@HiddenKS no, it was someone I met in the things I did outside of home and family. It was never romantic or sexual. I was open about having those feelings of “limerence”, I think more as an apology and warning label… and they cemented into friendship with zero romantic or sexual interaction. Those flavors of bonding aren’t nearly as important to me as what I have already — I’m profoundly grateful to have a really important, hopefully enduring friend.

 

I guess it’s why I now think one shouldn’t say “just” friends. A friend can be very important. I’m sure he knows he could destabilize my marriage when it’s distressed (and it wasn’t due to my falling in love with him — although that it happened was possibly a symptom of unresolved issues), his tact in avoiding that is also something I value.

 

My marital relationship is a marriage with kids, functionally monogamous. The main atypical aspect is me growing a beard these last couple of years.

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Just getting around to some replies here. 
 

On 9/30/2022 at 1:13 PM, Traveler40 said:

’m unabashedly sexual. It’s a drive. Even when pissed off, I ache to work it out with my lover between the sheets, against the wall, in the shower, backwards, forwards or even upside down on the floor.  Sex is always, always a need. It’s not a switch that suddenly flips. 

Well… damn @Traveler40 after that I’m wondering if I’m an asexual or something 😜.  When I’m pissed, or stressed out all I want to do is crash, yet hope I can motivate myself to go on a run, or do some yoga to clear my head. 
 

On 9/30/2022 at 1:13 PM, Traveler40 said:

You’re not going anywhere, she seems to be staying put as well. The sooner you get to the base, the sooner you can build up from there. 

Keep in mind I am dating. Comments about dating have been included in this thread and others have also commented I should consider slowing down on that front (and I have… too exhausted) rather than speed up. 
 

A big difference for me, my story or at least my opinion on how it is working is that if my wife becomes nothing more than a supporting character, then this option we’ve selected has failed, and it’s time to walk through the final door. 
 

On 9/30/2022 at 1:13 PM, Traveler40 said:

Sure, that’s my story and anecdotal, but somewhere in there is a thread that binds the sexual experience. You have over 18 years of data that led you here. Work through it in honesty.

 

Yes, I have 18 years of data as you said.  I’ve thought endlessly about that data and selected various pieces of it to formulate my opinions. 

 

The events I anchored to from our 18 years of ‘data,’ necessitated forcing change to ensure the future would not be like the past. 

Yet…

 

The most critical pierce of advice I’ve received from these boards was: 

 

Quote

But you will need to pull the cord and the sooner she sees the flashing light the sooner she can take responsibility in formulating her view of the future relationship and marriage

I am not forgetting, nor disregarding the past, nor am I wielding them as a cudgel. 
 

There is a stark difference between pulling the ripcord, for @TheWife11 to take responsibility, formulate, then communicate about and weaponizing my view of the past to force one view on what our future will look like. 
 

Simply relegating @TheWife11 ‘s entire response to being another part of the cycle would be the definition of weaponizing the past to dictate the future. 
 

The way you write about sex as a need in your last post is quite animalistic. From your other posting history though I know it is about more than carnal animal desires. I know it is about the emotional connection with someone and all of the feelings of desire that come with an emotional connection. 

 

Is it really a stretch to think that someone who has spent a lifetime suppressing emotions and who has avoided deeply examining how they were affected by certain less than healthy relationships in their life may have also suppressed all of the feelings of desire? Open the emotional floodgates, and perhaps feel deeper emotional connections? Feel a deeper emotional connection, and perhaps desire follows? Is that really a stretch to think of as a possibility? Asexuality isn’t the same as a gay/straight orientation; in cases like ours and most of our partners, it’s like a giant spectrum of ambiguity and stories that can be similar or completely different from one another heavily influenced by god knows what. 
 

Do the labels matter or don’t they? On this relationship board we tell people all the time labels don’t matter. Do we only say that when it suits our purpose or do we mean it? 
 

It will take me a long time to trust that we aren’t just seeing a spike in the cycle because of our history together and so we are remaining open, and I’m dating. 
 

Yet I also will not use our history, or any label as a prison where she’s required to serve a term answering for the past 18 years. 
 

Pull the ripcord, let them take responsibility, formulate their view of the future, communicate, but then discard it all if they do all those things but the result it’s not what we would’ve guessed based on the data points we anchored to in the past? 
 

The other relationship adage that gets tossed around here is that “your prior marriage/relationship is over. Now you are EACH are deciding what your new marriage/relationship will look like.”
 

It would be a pretty shitty new relationship beginning if it is based on partner forcing the other to serve penance for the past. 
 

We’ve all heard the phrases - four doors, ripcords, endings, and beginnings, NVC, etc. - I’m just trying to make sure I’m really listening. 
 

And ya know, @TheWife11 sure seems to be listening as well. 
 

I haven’t forgotten the past, have trust issues in the present (so remain open), and we’re going to work on the future.

 

Hopefully we’ll each remain a main character in the others story. 

 

 

[Sally]

1 hour ago, HiddenKS said:

 Asexuality isn’t the same as a gay/straight orientation; it’s like a giant spectrum of ambiguity and stories that can be similar or completely different from one another heavily influenced by god knows what. 
 

Do the labels matter or don’t they? On this relationship board we tell people all the time labels don’t matter. Do we only say that when it suits our purpose or do we mean it? 
 

Not every asexual feels their orientation is a giant spectrum of ambiguity.  Some of us feel that based on our experience, it's pretty clear that we do not want or desire sex with another person.  

 

And in that sense, it's not the labels that matter, it's what we identify with.  And when I -- and likely others -- say that I am asexual, It mean it.  Considering that asexuals pretty much live in a world that either doesn't understand us or doesn't believe us, it doesn't seem to me that identifying as sexual would suit any "purpose."

 

As an asexual, the only sexuals I can refer to somewhat clearly are the two that I had long relationships with, and then I specify I'm speaking only of those experiences.   As a sexual, it would probably be best if you don't make any firm statements about what asexuality is.   

[Traveler40]

6 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

I’m wondering if I’m an asexual or something 😜.  When I’m pissed, or stressed out all I want to do is crash, yet hope I can motivate myself to go on a run, or do some yoga to clear my head. 

Sure, but apparently my point was missed. No matter my mood, I am sexual at the base. I see you’re quite literal as well. 😬

 

6 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

Keep in mind I am dating. Comments about dating have been included in this thread and others have also commented I should consider slowing down on that front (and I have… too exhausted) rather than speed up. 

Not sure what your point is as it pertains to the quoted bits from me that prompted this response. 

 

6 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

am not forgetting, nor disregarding the past, nor am I wielding them as a cudgel. 

Good. You seem…difficult to give input to if not prefaced by @Mountain House. Just a thought.

 

6 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

weaponizing my view of the past to force one view on what our future will look like. 

Point in case. This comment seems dramatic and out of place. On the whole, my read of your post comes through as argumentative and defensive which I don’t have time for or Interest in frankly.  

No one said anything remotely close to the quote or other points made towards the end. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 

You have to do you. 

 

6 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

The way you write about sex as a need in your last post is quite animalistic.

Again, I was making a point that clearly flew way over head. 🙄 it was not meant as fodder for judgment or argument, but as an example of base difference.

 

 

6 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

Is it really a stretch to think that someone who has spent a lifetime suppressing emotions and who has avoided deeply examining how they were affected by certain less than healthy relationships in their life may have also suppressed all of the feelings of desire? Open the emotional floodgates, and perhaps feel deeper emotional connections? Feel a deeper emotional connection, and perhaps desire follows? Is that really a stretch to think of as a possibility? Asexuality isn’t the same as a gay/straight orientation; in cases like ours and most of our partners, it’s like a giant spectrum of ambiguity and stories that can be similar or completely different from one another heavily influenced by god knows what. 

Yes. It’s a stretch in my opinion - by a wide margin. You will only see this in time.  The fact that you argue this way smacks of one of a few things in my opinion:

 

1. You aren’t sexual. (Which I don’t believe, see # 3.)

2. You’re speaking from hope.

3. You’re arguing from your wife’s perspective based on discussions you’ve had you.

 

As for labels. They only matter to those who need them. My husband can label himself sexual all day long. However, his existence within our 20 years is fully ace. What’s that sexual label worth to me? Zero. It may be worth something to him.

 

Many come here confused. They want to figure out how to define themselves based on their human experience. I understand that need. However, I’m autonomous and if there’s something that is incongruent, and I’m in a relationship with that person, I’m going to have an opinion on it based on shared history. 

 

sigh. I’m exhausted and not a therapist. It’s clear (to me) that the advice sought is from @mountain house. Best of luck, but I can’t expend energy to argue points that don’t add up. 
 

i stand by my words: Until you both come to the table in honesty, it’s going to be tough to build from a base. I hope it works for the betterment of you both. I’m pro best life!
 

May you find and live yours. ✌️ 
 

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Again, I was making a point that clearly flew way over head. 🙄

 

12 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Not sure your what your point is as it pertains to the quoted bits from me that prompted this response. 

Yeah… if anything went over someone’s head it was a little joke to start this out. 
 

Sure not the funniest joke mind you, but swooosh.. right over the top.

 

If there’s one thing missed, I think it is mainly that you’re presuming something that is not present in my posts. 

 

I believe in virtually every post I’ve made here, I’ve been pretty clear I don’t have anything figured out. These are real-time updates, to a quickly changing situation because of the work being put in, yet still our time is being measured in weeks here. 
 

12 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Good. You seem…difficult to give input to if not prefaced by @Mountain House. Just a thought.

I appreciate his ethics, honesty, transparency, and empathy. He’s not the only person here who exhibits those traits, and so not nearly the only one whose advice and input I value. He is however someone who I will owe a lifetime debt to, whose input has extended beyond these message boards. 

I dunno, maybe you missed the whole part about how this is all stuff in my head thinking though things as they happen. Perhaps you missed how I’m not drawing conclusions, or presuming I have answers. 
 

I’ve appreciated ‘virtually’ everyone who has commented here. 
 

 

[TheWife11]

12 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

i stand by my words: Until you both come to the table in honesty, it’s going to be tough to build from a base.

You seem to be presuming that this is not happening. It is. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

i stand by my words: Until you both come to the table in honesty, it’s going to be tough to build from a base.

I definitely do not appreciate dismissive comments like this at a time when the effort to do exactly this has been all consuming since we started this journey. 

[Traveler40]

1 hour ago, TheWife11 said:

You seem to be presuming that this is not happening. It is. 

The only presumption seems to be yours. “It’s going to be tough” holds no assumption of failure. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 

I’m not now, nor ever will be interested in arguments here. My opinion is direct and fair. I’m sorry it’s upset you both, but I stand by it.

 

You can’t bully people as a duo. It doesn’t work like that. I’d be willing to wager others see the truth in my words as we are not in the fire. Distance has its perspective.

 

It seems there’s much to be worked out: Best of luck to you both. ✌️

[RileyA]

FWIW, @Traveler40, of course I agree with you. But I also get that @HiddenKSand @TheWife11 have hit a reset button here so when he says: 

17 hours ago, HiddenKS said:

Simply relegating @TheWife11 ‘s entire response to being another part of the cycle would be the definition of weaponizing the past to dictate the future. 

That's absolutely true. If you hit reset, you can't bring up previous patterns of behavior in that way. That's why a reset is often unrealistic because you can't just erase the past. 

 

However, if there is an "epiphany" that "jolts" both parties onto the same page, then a reset has the best chance if succeeding. Because you're truly doing things differently this time around. 

 

As far as I can remember, this is the first time they've had such a "jolt", so they're not quite in a "jolt" cycle yet. Even if they were in that other cycle before the reset. 

 

But I absolutely do believe you can go through a pattern of these "jolts" too, and you may have experienced that. Almost like the macro-cycle to the micro-cycle. 

[anisotrophic]

One should not reset and ignore the past, but one can re-contextualize it into a different explanatory narrative.

 

If that explanation makes sense to someone, they'll have an insight they might use to modify behavior and attempt happier outcomes for themselves. If it makes sense to both partners, they can work together on those goals.

 

My relationship has had cycling (not related to sexuality), and I agree the explanations (excuses) started to wear thin. Including separations that didn't seem to provoke the necessary sea change. But now I'm currently in a not-like-the-others "jolt" with having my husband diagnosed with ADHD and I'm now re-interpreting his behaviors in that light. If it makes enough sense, then it's not like the others.

(I hope, of course.) Sea changes in one's understanding of past events are possible (and yet sometimes they will never occur). And they are powerful -- at individual scales as well. In the context of extended relationship distress, it might be critically valuable for enabling a potential future dynamic that is greatly improved. Here's a gratuitous quotation of the bard...
 

Quote

Full fathom five thy father lies;

Of his bones are coral made;

Those are pearls that were his eyes;

Nothing of him that doth fade,

But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, RileyA said:

That's absolutely true. If you hit reset, you can't bring up previous patterns of behavior in that way. That's why a reset is often unrealistic because you can't just erase the past. 

 

However, if there is an "epiphany" that "jolts" both parties onto the same page, then a reset has the best chance if succeeding. Because you're truly doing things differently this time around. 

Yes, thank you @RileyA , that is a great summary of the balancing act. 
 

The past matters, yet a seemingly seismic shift makes the present that much more confusing. 
 

3 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

My relationship has had cycling (not related to sexuality), and I agree the explanations (excuses) started to wear thin. Including separations that didn't seem to provoke the necessary sea change. But now I'm currently in a not-like-the-others "jolt" with having my husband diagnosed with ADHD and I'm now re-interpreting his behaviors in that light. If it makes enough sense, then it's not like the others.

Thank you @anisotrophic , that is a great analogy. ADHD is a diagnoses that causes you to evaluate your prior conclusions. Same ‘data’ of events that occurred, but a completely new framework to re-valuate. Then it’s more confusing because it isn’t like they or you will be able to actually know which past behaviors are fully, partially or not at all explained by the new framework you have to view it. 
 

Where I’m left with my wife is that confusing place. Everything feels insanely different to each of us, very disconnected from ‘the cycle.’ Everything ‘feels’ like previous explanations may deserve re-valuation. Here though we don’t have diagnoses, we simply have labels we’ve tried on, or identified with pieces. 
 

What I’m struggling with then isn’t the search to explain the why. I spent most of our relationship with one framework of thinking (first 16 years) only to later find a new label/framework to reevaluate (last two years), and now don’t know if any of it had even a hint of validity. 
 

I’m left thinking that we could come together talking in all honesty till we’re blue in the face, yet no matter what we come up with if I can learn anything from history, it’s how bad I/we can be understanding it. 
 

4 hours ago, anisotrophic said:

I hope, of course.) Sea changes in one's understanding of past events are possible (and yet sometimes they will never occur

Thank you. Seismic shifts are possible, but rare (sorry added that part), so the issue I’m left with how to build trust both in her in what appears to be a major shift, and my own ability to decide on how to look at any of it. 
 

Specific to our path of opening, @anisotrophic, because I wanted to get back to your comments before this all took a detour. When you mentioned how you were open in your relationship, yet didn’t have the desire to pursue it. Mind me asking why you haven’t had the desire? Did you ever have the desire? 
 

I’m asking because when my wife and I made the decision to open, I had the desire to pursue it, to fill a hole in me that was even deeper than I thought it was. Since we have had a seismic shift in how we are communicating, which then lead in some way to this seemingly seismic shift in intimacy, desire and all of that my interest in dating has fallen of a cliff. 
 

Bluntly, the only reason I’m still pursuing it at present is:

 

1. All the above we’ve talked about regarding trust in these changes in light of the past. 
 

2. Because I do enjoy talking with Allison, this girl I met disregarding anything romantic/sexual. 
 

The former is the the issue, with the latter being complicating since all of this is happening simultaneously. 
 

If I had the trust/belief or whatever, I think I would be as you are now where your partnership is open, but your desire to pursue it keeps you from doing so. It seems way too early in all of this to think I have anything figured out and this is an aspect I have to be able to decide on my own (I think, correct me if you disagree).
 

Thank you both! 

(And sorry if I butchered the ADHD analogies)

[anisotrophic]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:21 PM, HiddenKS said:

Mind me asking why you haven’t had the desire? Did you ever have the desire? 

I realized it wasn't the problem, I guess. I wanted to, it was exciting to think about it, but I realized I didn't have the energy or time. With three young kids (preschool / elementary) I've become miserable with the extent to which responsibilities in the domain of home and family have fallen on my shoulders. And then I felt far more forced into it by the pandemic without receiving the support / appreciation I wanted, and torn away from my career. The derailment of that career part of myself, which was a major source of self esteem and meaning for me, became a source of trauma and remains derailed. These things and realities still hurt.

In the meantime, sex got easier and easier. I accepted always being the initiator and leader (if I wanted sex), became more dominant, learned what buttons to push, worked on building new ones. (Initial buttons were "physical touch in a particular context" -- usually middle of the night waking. He said that was best, it wasn't me, I think it works because he's not already absorbed in various thoughts that are more interesting than sex. Sex is more interesting once he's aroused, but not before.) I mostly had to work out the buttons for myself: if asked, he'd just sadly say he didn't know what would be arousing, made it sound like nothing would do it, he'd even agree he was asexual for a while there. He just can't imagine it very well until it's happening. Once I had the buttons, I worked on building new associations; I did run that by him, explaining the concerns (conditioning to shift someone's sexual responses can have risks). Behavioral modification can be a kink in itself.

Maybe some of what happened here is that it all worked "better" as I became more masculinized. I felt less aching for being desired by my partner, more "well if I want it to happen, I'll make it happen" -- hell, I probably had a burst of interest in sex when first starting testosterone, a second puberty in middle age, that probably "helped". I worked on less worrying: if he says it's okay then it's okay. Easier to be dominant. Easier to detach from an emotional yearning to "feel desired" (was that my internalization of feminine state? physiological? or was it just time -- acceptance that I wasn't going to get it?).

And I have the benefit of a cis male partner - a physiology that is generally easier to arouse (my personal experience is that T does have this effect) and easier to know he's physically aroused. And hey, good timing in the middle of the night can take advantage of NPT.

 

"Just get a sex change and be the dude," probably not helpful advice. 🤷‍♂️ I don't feel very male, self esteem in a ditch, exhausted with home, chores, kids, still feeling like it was forced on me by defection, not feeling like any of that pain was repaired, powerless (separation only revealed that he seemed unlikely to be more than a "weekend dad").

 

Anyway ... the marital distress never got better, got worse, better-ish right now with a new optimistic angle. I wouldn't want to try dating etc. until the relationship feels repaired. And even after that, recovering some sort of career may feel more important, especially if the bedroom has become "better".

[anisotrophic]

I mean seriously how was dating even going to work. "Can we hook up sometime between 10am to 2pm on a work day because that's when the kids are in school?" Did I imagine I could regularly leave in the evenings? The kids have ADHD too and it's stressful (if they're old enough to be diagnosed) so yeah it's pretty challenging for anyone else to watch them.

[Guest]

@anisotrophic - interesting! Thank you for the reply. 
 

Can’t really reply right now (busy day, avoiding the start of it), but wanted to at least quickly express my gratitude till I do have time. 
 

Very much appreciated!