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frustr8ed

it's gotta be tough to be asexual --- but guess what ....

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Eta Carinae
Sex is sex and affection is affection. You can't consider yourself in a true, romantic relationship if either one is missing. You can have casual sex, but without affection, it's not a true relationship (hence the term). You can have affection... with a sister, child, parent, friend... but without the sexual component, it's not a romantic relationship.

Perhaps I'm overly crabby and interpreting this in the wrong way. If I'm not, however:

How 'bout you speak for yourself? Instead of invalidating asexuals' relationships. On an asexual board -- you know, the one place where we can go to get away from this kind of thinking.

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Derp
Perhaps I'm overly crabby and interpreting this in the wrong way.

Perhaps I am too, but you said what I was thinking...

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Chiaroscuro
You can't consider yourself in a true, romantic relationship if either one is missing.

I apologize for not qualifying that line (which I assume is the issue in my post). Please insert "a sexual person doesn't consider him/herself in a true, romantic relationship if one is missing." OF COURSE I don't believe that's true for asexuals.

My only excuse is that it was late and I was writing in haste before collapsing into bed.

Hugs all around.

-Chiarosucro

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ghosts
Sex is sex and affection is affection. A sexual person doesn't consider him/herself in a true, romantic relationship if either one is missing. You can have casual sex, but without affection, it's not a true relationship (hence the term). You can have affection... with a sister, child, parent, friend... but without the sexual component, it's not a romantic relationship.

Let me start of by saying that I realize this is the case for many sexual people out there, and I'm not trying to invalidate the feelings of those who do feel the way you described above. But- I do strongly feel that this isn't the case for all sexual people, since peoples' sexuality and feelings can vary so much. I think it's possible for some sexual people to consider themselves to be in a romantic relationship even if sex isn't involved in that particular relationship.

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Chiaroscuro
I think it's possible for some sexual people to consider themselves to be in a romantic relationship even if sex isn't involved in that particular relationship.

That's certainly true for some, because there's so much variation in the way humans express themselves, but I think the reason sexuals are so routinely baffled, hurt, frustrated and confused by their asexual partners is for exactly the reason I outlined. They expect everyone to define a "romantic" relationship the same way: Romantic relationship = Sex + Affection. When the asexual partner denies the sexual part of the equation, it changes what the relationship is to the sexual partner, and that's going to be a shock to all but a very few sexual folks.

And again, I don't mean sex as just "the act", but as any number of expressions of mutual desire.

-Chiaroscuro

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Lucy Locket
I think it's possible for some sexual people to consider themselves to be in a romantic relationship even if sex isn't involved in that particular relationship.

That's certainly true for some, because there's so much variation in the way humans express themselves, but I think the reason sexuals are so routinely baffled, hurt, frustrated and confused by their asexual partners is for exactly the reason I outlined. They expect everyone to define a "romantic" relationship the same way: Romantic relationship = Sex + Affection. When the asexual partner denies the sexual part of the equation, it changes what the relationship is to the sexual partner, and that's going to be a shock to all but a very few sexual folks.

And again, I don't mean sex as just "the act", but as any number of expressions of mutual desire.

-Chiaroscuro

I bet all those expressions are sexual though, aren't they? *shudders*

It kind of seems like the reverse to me. "Expecting" sex from me, an asexual person, feels like affection is being denied, because anyone who genuinely cared about me wouldn't want me to do something so bad.

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Chiaroscuro
I bet all those expressions are sexual though, aren't they? *shudders*

As "expressions of mutual desire", they needn't be overtly sexual, but if there is no mutual desire (to have sex at some point), then there's nothing to express.

It kind of seems like the reverse to me. "Expecting" sex from me, an asexual person, feels like affection is being denied, because anyone who genuinely cared about me wouldn't want me to do something so bad.

I understand that. It's the reason a mixed relationship is such a difficult thing to achieve via compromise.

-Chiaroscuro

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Zane
I bet all those expressions are sexual though, aren't they? *shudders*

It kind of seems like the reverse to me. "Expecting" sex from me, an asexual person, feels like affection is being denied, because anyone who genuinely cared about me wouldn't want me to do something so bad.

"If you truly love someone, you will change for them.

If they truly love you, they will never want you to."

While I realize that is not quite true, it seemed to fit in my mind. We sexuals are weird when it comes to sex. Quite honestly, I can not live without relieving myself of sexual tension on a regular basis. The tension can drive me to act crazily in a way completely unlike me if I try to ignore it. It really can be a powerful force.

That is why I still struggle to wrap my mind around how asexuality works. I understand the theory, but I could not imagine existing as such, it is so foreign to me.

It almost seems selfish for a sexual to ask you to have sex with them knowing the way you are. But likewise, it almost seems selfish to completely deny them something that does run a section on their life. The logic goes both ways. Asexuals are on the upper hand, however, since sexuals can relieve themselves sexually in other ways.

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Chiaroscuro
sexuals can relieve themselves sexually in other ways.

Except that we can't really. Masturbation is not a substitute for a lover. Unfortunately :)

-Chiaroscuro

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Zane
sexuals can relieve themselves sexually in other ways.

Except that we can't really. Masturbation is not a substitute for a lover. Unfortunately :)

-Chiaroscuro

I suppose not, but it helps me. While it would suck to know I could not have sex in the relationship ever, it would be something I would deal with.

I suppose it is like the varying levels of asexuality. Some are not disgusted by sex, others are (or the thought of having it anyhow).

I could live and be happy without my partner being sexual with me. You might not want the relationship to be like that.

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Chiaroscuro
You might not want the relationship to be like that.

No, it's not something I would choose again. I've been in a marriage for sixteen years that has been more or less asexual. Trust me, you get very tired of your right hand :oops: And more importantly, I'm tired of feeling undesirable, knowing that there are people "out there" who wouldn't turn away from that part of me.

-Chiaroscuro

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Zane
You might not want the relationship to be like that.

No, it's not something I would choose again. I've been in a marriage for sixteen years that has been more or less asexual. Trust me, you get very tired of your right hand :oops: And more importantly, I'm tired of feeling undesirable, knowing that there are people "out there" who wouldn't turn away from that part of me.

-Chiaroscuro

I feel bad for you. The feeling you are going through is probably very hard indeed, I really can not comment further on it. I am not you.

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ghosts
That's certainly true for some, because there's so much variation in the way humans express themselves, but I think the reason sexuals are so routinely baffled, hurt, frustrated and confused by their asexual partners is for exactly the reason I outlined. They expect everyone to define a "romantic" relationship the same way: Romantic relationship = Sex + Affection. When the asexual partner denies the sexual part of the equation, it changes what the relationship is to the sexual partner, and that's going to be a shock to all but a very few sexual folks.

And again, I don't mean sex as just "the act", but as any number of expressions of mutual desire.

I definitely agree- I think that sexual people are generally hurt, confused, etc in relationships with asexuals primarily because loving, romantic relationships are supposed to include sex/sexual desire. It's of course understandable for sexual people to feel this way. (And yeah, generally when I say "sex" I don't mean it in the strictest sense of the word) And you know, sometimes I wonder if the non-repulsed asexuals could feel similarly as sexual people in some instances- even if they don't feel a desire for sex themselves, just the expectation that a relationship is supposed to include sexual activity might set off warning signals if it doesn't end up happening (and that this is an undiscussed matter between the partners). I dunno though.

I think this is one of the good things about people learning about asexuality/people not caring or being interested in sex- so it doesn't become much of a shock, and that our ways of thinking about close, intimate relationships could hopefully change with this new knowledge- so sex wouldn't necessarily be an absolute expectation in a close relationship.

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Chiaroscuro
I think this is one of the good things about people learning about asexuality/people not caring or being interested in sex- so it doesn't become much of a shock, and that our ways of thinking about close, intimate relationships could hopefully change with this new knowledge- so sex wouldn't necessarily be an absolute expectation in a close relationship.

Amen! Yes, yes yes! And, from my experience with sexless marriages in general, I think people are, as a rule, completely unaware of what their sexual preferences are when they get married. If there were more awareness generally that there is a whole spectrum of sexual interest, from complete asexuality to complete sexuality, it might help people find more compatible partners and prevent a lot of heartache down the road. And if sexuality weren't seen as a precondition to all marriages, asexuals wouldn't feel like they had to "fake" interest in order to find a mate and raise a family (only to realize once it's too late that pretending to be sexual isn't worth it).

Of course, the other issue is that people change over time. There's no way to stop that from happening. Society seems to have some sense that it's okay for the elderly to live in an asexual relationship (though I just read an article that claimed that a huge majority of couples are having regular sex well into their seventies). Viagra may be changing things...

-Chiarscuro

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luvmybabies
You can't consider yourself in a true, romantic relationship if either one is missing.

I apologize for not qualifying that line (which I assume is the issue in my post). Please insert "a sexual person doesn't consider him/herself in a true, romantic relationship if one is missing." OF COURSE I don't believe that's true for asexuals.

My only excuse is that it was late and I was writing in haste before collapsing into bed.

Hugs all around.

-Chiarosucro

Well, also every needs to keep in mind that this particular section that we are talking on is called: FOR SEXUAL PARTNERS, FRIENDS & ALLIES. So I think his/her comment was very appropriate here actually.

just my 2 cents....

cheers,

luvmybabies

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Spoofmaster

I think the most worrying part of this topic is actually that luvmy "diagnosed" her husband despite saying he "doesn't know" that he's asexual, and that she's here talking to us instead of talking to him. Sure, AVEN can help explain some of what might be going on, but wouldn't it be more emotionally healthy for both spouses for luvmy to bring this up in a conversation with her husband and invite him to give AVEN a look-see and decide if he agrees with her "diagnosis"? And again, there's no solving the problem without direct communication.

I disagree with the people who said it was unfair of luvmy to expect sex from him when they got married, because by the sound of it neither of them knew he was asexual (if he really is). If he did know, I'd go so far as to say that he was the one who was being unfair by not being up front about his expectations, as there is a general assumption in our society that married couples will have sex. At this point, though, there doesn't seem to be any purpose in pointing fingers...all they can really do is either try to compromise or end the relationship.

luvmy, you might not have intended to put anyone down in this topic, but I'd like for you to understand that by saying you've "diagnosed" your husband as asexual and want to "fix him," you could really hurt a lot of feelings. The implication you're making is that there's something inherently wrong with being asexual, so even if you didn't direct it at any of us, it can still feel like you're challenging our right to be asexual.

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luvmybabies
I think the most worrying part of this topic is actually that luvmy "diagnosed" her husband despite saying he "doesn't know" that he's asexual, and that she's here talking to us instead of talking to him. Sure, AVEN can help explain some of what might be going on, but wouldn't it be more emotionally healthy for both spouses for luvmy to bring this up in a conversation with her husband and invite him to give AVEN a look-see and decide if he agrees with her "diagnosis"? And again, there's no solving the problem without direct communication.

I disagree with the people who said it was unfair of luvmy to expect sex from him when they got married, because by the sound of it neither of them knew he was asexual (if he really is). If he did know, I'd go so far as to say that he was the one who was being unfair by not being up front about his expectations, as there is a general assumption in our society that married couples will have sex. At this point, though, there doesn't seem to be any purpose in pointing fingers...all they can really do is either try to compromise or end the relationship.

luvmy, you might not have intended to put anyone down in this topic, but I'd like for you to understand that by saying you've "diagnosed" your husband as asexual and want to "fix him," you could really hurt a lot of feelings. The implication you're making is that there's something inherently wrong with being asexual, so even if you didn't direct it at any of us, it can still feel like you're challenging our right to be asexual.

I totally respect your opinions here, and appreciate your input.

I would only hope that you would have read all of my posts on all of the threads before putting in your 2 cents.

Because, I have since taken back a lot of what I said when I first joined AVEN, and I even thanked the asexuals and the AVEN site for changing my views on this subject, and for opening up my eyes to a lot of new things that I wouldn't normally be open to hearing or listening to before.

And, as far as talking about this with my husband one on one, and bringing him to this site, that has already been done, and I posted the results on this site somewhere, so please don't assume anything here, without knowing all the facts.

Unfortunately, I am high as a kite on drugs from my operation yesterday, so I couldn't tell you exactly where all of my comments are located right now, but they are all here.

So I did do the right thing, in the end.

Thanks to everyone here, who made it easier for me to see the light.

And, thanks for saying what you said about my husband, that there might actually be a possiblity that he married me, without fully informing me of his sexual nature or desires. I couldn't agree more.

Luvmybabies

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Chiaroscuro
Unfortunately, I am high as a kite on drugs from my operation yesterday, so I couldn't tell you exactly where all of my comments are located right now, but they are all here.

Hope you recover quickly, LMB.

*hugs*

Chiaroscuro (who's recovering from his root canal this morning.. ow)

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luvmybabies
Unfortunately, I am high as a kite on drugs from my operation yesterday, so I couldn't tell you exactly where all of my comments are located right now, but they are all here.

Hope you recover quickly, LMB.

*hugs*

Chiaroscuro (who's recovering from his root canal this morning.. ow)

Ouch, I hope you are feeling better soon as well {{HUGS}}

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Spoofmaster

I don't normally check this part of the forum...in fact, I kind of clicked into the "Sexual partners" area by accident, and got grabbed by the title of the thread. Apologies for making assumptions, but I was posting on a limited time frame. Still am, actually. The level of how busy I am is, frankly, obscene.

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luvmybabies
I don't normally check this part of the forum...in fact, I kind of clicked into the "Sexual partners" area by accident, and got grabbed by the title of the thread. Apologies for making assumptions, but I was posting on a limited time frame. Still am, actually. The level of how busy I am is, frankly, obscene.

It's no problem. I completely understand. I sure do hope that things slow down for you soon.

Take care,

((Hugs))

luvmybabies

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