"Asexuals don't lust"

[Blue eyes white dragon]

So I saw something saying that instead of saying asexuals don't experience sexual attraction or sexual desire, we can say that asexuals don't lust. Thoughts on that? Pros? Cons? Anything at all?

[Lilibulero]

Personally speaking, I've never lusted after anyone in my life.

 

The word lust doesn't sit well in the context you suggest, though.

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Probably just doesn't work well for sexual people who don't lust

 

Don't some asexuals lust over fiction and fantasies?

[Snao Cone]

Sounds judgmental and dismissive of sexual people.

[Shadowbird]

"Lust" doesn't only pertain to sexuality, it generally means it's an intense desire for something, which can also involve money, power, or literally anything. Who's to say there aren't asexuals who lust for food or video games or essentially anything that one can be passionate about?

[Batman's Ace]

Lust is generally applied to very strong desire, but it's not required to be sexual. Someone can "lust" after a car--they don't necessarily want to have sex with it, usually they just want to own it, really really badly. The word can be used casually for a lot of things that people want. Asexuals can feel that kind of lust obviously.

 

When "lust" is applied to human targets, the definition I'm most familiar with is "desiring the use of that other person's body without genuine concern for what's best for that person or what they want". Notice, that's NOT limited to sex. Also includes cuddling, hand-holding, kissing, stroking hair, etc etc etc.

 

Years ago I first came across the word "cuddlelust". It's totally a thing, and I've heard people say they felt really guilty for feeling it. Because the point of lust is, it's all about what the person who feels it wants, and the other person's desires aren't relevant. Anyone who knows that's not okay is likely to feel bad.

 

So yes, asexuals can feel lust for another person, and can also feel bad about it.

[EmeraldIce]

I like to say that I don't understand what people mean by sexual attraction or desire, because it's not something that resonates with me or my personal experience.

 

As others have mentioned, the issue with lust is that there are sexuals who don't generally lust but are still very well aware of the fact that they're attracted to one gender or another, or both. The word "lust" also has a negative connotation that's probably going to get some lashback from religious people and prudes in general who interpret that as an attack on their self-control.

[Glenninindy]

Yes, and my intentions were completely misunderstood to the point that I was bullied when I said I was ace.  I genuinely lusted for them , but, it's not sexual lusting. It is just romantic love. No gonad involvement. Nobody believed me. I fake sexual interest to get close and that is my big time mistake. The Folks involved thought I played their friends. It is such a jagged edge. There are soo few of us.

 

[LeChat]

(Below is an official, green, mod message.)

 

Hi, everyone.

 

I just thought I'd give a helpful reminder about AVEN's TOS, regarding asexual elitism.

 

As others mentioned, "lust" has negative connotations, towards shaming people who have sex, sexual attraction, etc., and AVEN is meant to be welcoming to people of all sexualities, whether they have sex, sexual attraction, or not.

 

The AVEN Terms of Service (ToS) - Site Info Center - Asexual Visibility and Education Network (asexuality.org)

Quote

2.3 Offensive and bigoted content

 

AVEN does not tolerate elitist, racist, queerphobic, or sexist bigotry, as these create an environment that is hostile to the reasonable exchange of views. You may not post hateful, abusive or disparaging content about people's race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, romantic orientation, age, or mental or physical disability. This includes anything bigoted against 'asexuals', 'sexuals', 'aromantics' or 'romantics' as identifiable categories.

 

Also, see this link for more details about antisexuality and asexual elitism, why it's not allowed, etc.: About antisexuality and asexual elitism - Asexual Musings and Rantings - Asexual Visibility and Education Network (asexuality.org)

 

Thanks.

 

LeChat,

Welcome Lounge and Alternate Language moderator

[Ceebs]

Sounds like a very unclear way to phrase it when the option to say that asexuals don't desire sex with other people exists. 'Lust' is just too vague a term.

[everywhere and nowhere]

5 hours ago, Lady Telecaster said:

Sounds like a very unclear way to phrase it when the option to say that asexuals don't desire sex with other people exists.

Except that it always leads to an attraction vs. desire definition debate... If the desire-based definition was more widely accepted, there would probably be no reason to look for roundabout alternatives.

[daveb]

4 hours ago, everywhere and nowhere said:

Except that it always leads to an attraction vs. desire definition debate... If the desire-based definition was more widely accepted, there would probably be no reason to look for roundabout alternatives.

Talking about lust won't solve the debates.

 

Personally, I'm not sure why there has to be a single "true" definition. Many words have more than a single correct definition.

 

Or another way to look at it is something can be multifarious and various combinations of factors can each be true. For example, it could be correct to say "I don't desire sex so I identify as asexual" and it could be correct to say "I don't feel sexual attraction so I identify as asexual", or "I don't feel sexual attraction and I don't desire sex so I identify as asexual", just to list a few examples and not to exclude others.

 

(and now people will probably pick at this) 🤷‍♂️

[Blue eyes white dragon]

19 hours ago, Lilibulero said:

ust d

 

19 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Proba

 

17 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

unds ju

 

17 hours ago, Shadowbird said:

Lust"

 

17 hours ago, Batman's Ace said:

Lu

 

16 hours ago, EmeraldIce said:

like t

 

16 hours ago, Glenninindy said:

Yes, a

 

13 hours ago, Lady Telecaster said:

Sounds

Thanks for the answers! I didnt have the energy to think about why this wasnt a good way of talking about aces but something was bothering me about it and this all says what I was feeling about it

 

14 hours ago, LeChat said:

st thought I'd give a helpful reminder about AVEN's TOS, regarding asexual elitism

I wasnt being elitist? I saw something and was confused by it so I thought to ask people that have more experience with this stuff, I wasnt saying anything negative about sexuals

 

3 hours ago, daveb said:

Personally, I'm not sure why there has to be a single "true" definition. Many words have more than a single correct definition.

I agree with you, a lot of arguments revolve around semantics and pragmatics. I took a linguistics class and I see a lot of what we talked about there in these debates. Words are complex

[Lilibulero]

Oh @Blue eyes white dragon, looks like you've a sick bit of tech there, just as dodgy as my old phone, by the look of that set of quotes you just gave.

[Blue eyes white dragon]

Just now, Lilibulero said:

Oh @Blue eyes white dragon, looks like you've a sick bit of tech there, just as dodgy as my old phone, by the look of that set of quotes you just gave.

Im lazy and didn't feel like quoting everything and mentioning people 😅 but yeah my phone is really scuffed so it's hard to do anything with it 

[Lilibulero]

I feel your pain @Blue eyes white dragon. Mine has ' episodes ' where it literally somersaults from page to page while sitting 6 feet away on the table.😂

[Sarah-Sylvia]

It looked funny. At first I thought you were gonna make a joke with those words. Missed opportunity xD.

 

Definitely nothing wrong with being curious on a subject or words. I can see how lust would be something to wonder about.
The diversity of people just makes it hard to use it well in the case.

[LeChat]

25 minutes ago, Blue eyes white dragon said:

...I wasnt being elitist? I saw something and was confused by it so I thought to ask people that have more experience with this stuff, I wasnt saying anything negative about sexuals...

Sure. No problem! You weren't being called out, specifically; the greenie message was for everyone.

 

I just like to be a helpful Admod for members, especially, new ones, who might not be familiar with the TOS. I feel it's nicer and more polite to forewarn members, in case a topic might or could head into breaking TOS territory, rather than waiting for them for post something and wind up getting into trouble with a nudge or a warn.

[Blue eyes white dragon]

8 minutes ago, LeChat said:

Sure. No problem! You weren't being called out, specifically; the greenie message was for everyone.

 

I just like to be a helpful Admod for members, especially, new ones, who might not be familiar with the TOS. I feel it's nicer and more polite to forewarn members, in case a topic might or could head into breaking TOS territory, rather than waiting for them for post something and wind up getting into trouble with a nudge or a warn.

Makes sense! Thanks for everything!

[LeChat]

@Blue eyes white dragon You're welcome!

[Sally]

9 hours ago, everywhere and nowhere said:

Except that it always leads to an attraction vs. desire definition debate... If the desire-based definition was more widely accepted, there would probably be no reason to look for roundabout alternatives.

It doesn't always do so -- that happens on AVEN because we have a perpetual definition debate.  IRL, saying asexuals don't desire sex with other people sounds perfectly understandable, especially as an explanation of asexuality to someone not knowledgeable about asexuality.  

[Reindeer]

On 5/22/2022 at 3:28 PM, Blue eyes white dragon said:

So I saw something saying that instead of saying asexuals don't experience sexual attraction or sexual desire, we can say that asexuals don't lust. Thoughts on that? Pros? Cons? Anything at all?

Perhaps easier to say one does not "Partake in Carnal pleasures of the flesh" 

[Blue eyes white dragon]

2 hours ago, Reindeer said:

Perhaps easier to say one does not "Partake in Carnal pleasures of the flesh" 

That still brings up all the issues that was mentioned here. Also what about the aces that enjoy physical acts and sexual people who dont?

[Reindeer]

3 hours ago, Blue eyes white dragon said:

That still brings up all the issues that was mentioned here. Also what about the aces that enjoy physical acts and sexual people who dont?

Ace/Aromantic = "One who does not partake is Carnel pleasures of the Flesh" 

Ace/Kinky = "One does not partake in Carnel pleasures of the Flesh/Will partake in such pleasures which require other stimuli" 

Ace/Demi = "One does not partake in Carnel Pleasures/Unless making an emotional/Romantic connection first" 

Ace/Romantic(Any orientation)= One Does not partake in Carnal pleasures of the Flesh/One does partake in romantic intimacy" 

 

Than you just have explaining what the difference between 

 

Romantic orientation vs/Sexuality is 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blue eyes white dragon]

12 minutes ago, Reindeer said:

Ace/Aromantic = "One who does not partake is Carnel pleasures of the Flesh" 

Ace/Kinky = "One does not partake in Carnel pleasures of the Flesh/Will partake in such pleasures which require other stimuli" 

Ace/Demi = "One does not partake in Carnel Pleasures/Unless making an emotional/Romantic connection first" 

Ace/Romantic(Any orientation)= One Does not partake in Carnal pleasures of the Flesh/One does partake in romantic intimacy" 

 

Than you just have explaining what the difference between 

 

Romantic orientation vs/Sexuality is 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this may just be because of being told how wrong it is to have carnel fleshy desires in church and now healing from church abuse but that sounds elitist and doesnt go around the other problems mentioned by other users in this thread

[Reindeer]

22 minutes ago, Blue eyes white dragon said:

Now this may just be because of being told how wrong it is to have carnel fleshy desires in church and now healing from church abuse but that sounds elitist and doesnt go around the other problems mentioned by other users in this thread

I did wonder if anyone would get church vibes from that. Carnel pleasures is actually a list of several things, not just sex. Which is why I specifically added "The Flesh" part at the end. 

 

Also saying asexuality is elitist for existing is the same as saying homosexuality or heterosexuality is. None of it is better or worse. Asexuality/heterosexuality/homosexuality and the rainbow of sexuality's are all just different. None worse or better. 

 

The Reason I used the term "Carnel Pleasure" is because its very too the point and can not be misconstrued as anything else. Its very literal phrasing. Even if someone does not understand that term its generally used to refer to sex, and so they will immediately understand what you are saying. I also find the phrasing rather amusing since its a term so rarely used. Its like when Sheldon in big bang refers to sex with really off terms that nobody really uses. 

 

Also I did address the points. That was the purpose for the list. 

[Blue eyes white dragon]

1 minute ago, Reindeer said:

Also saying asexuality is elitist for existing is the same as saying homosexuality or heterosexuality is. None of it is better or worse. Asexuality/heterosexuality/homosexuality and the rainbow of sexuality's are all just different. None worse or better. 

I didnt say asexuality was elitist but just the way you were phrasing it. And tbh Im a bit tired so I dont feel like getting into your other points rn, sorry

[Reindeer]

2 minutes ago, Blue eyes white dragon said:

I didnt say asexuality was elitist but just the way you were phrasing it. And tbh Im a bit tired so I dont feel like getting into your other points rn, sorry

I mean if you think one sexuality is more elite, that is your opinion. I am very much not of the same opinion but I will respect your right to believe what you wish to. 

[Blue eyes white dragon]

1 minute ago, Reindeer said:

mean if you think one sexuality is elite that is your opinion

 

3 minutes ago, Blue eyes white dragon said:

didnt say asexuality was elitist but just the way you were phrasing it

Im talking about how you phrased it, please stop saying that I said I think asexuality is elitist or elite

[everywhere and nowhere]

15 hours ago, Reindeer said:

Perhaps easier to say one does not "Partake in Carnal pleasures of the flesh" 

Unsurprisingly, this phrase repulses me. And besides, it's absurd: "carnal" and "of the flesh" express the same content, so it's a classic pleonasm, or "buttery butter", as a Polish saying puts it.