Being more comfortable as an ally in the LGBTQ+ community than Aro Ace?

[Lencat]

Ok... so this is a bit of a tricky one.

 

Growing up I've been very lucky to be raised in a pro-LGBT family, with several of my family members and friends being part of the community themselves. This has always meant that I've been vocal and active in my support of the community, whilst also acknowledging that I was not a part of it. However, since realising that I'm Aro Ace I've been questioning more and more where exactly I fit in the community now. I understand that I'm not straight and that the A in LGBTQIA stands for Ace, Aro and Agender, not Ally, but it still feels a bit wrong to describe myself as part of the queer community, particularly when I have other queer friends and family members who I've had to witness firsthand deal with homophobic and transphobic abuse and discrimination for years. I feel like it might be an insult to try and insert myself into the community, as I will never have to face the same issues. However, I also understand that I shouldn't play into the oppression Olympics.

 

I'm just feeling a bit lost right now as to where I fit in all this mess.

[R_1]

Not sure how this is hot box material, but there are few asexuals who don't see themselves as LGBTQ+ despite being very welcomed there. As one, I personally don't need the resource, community, or support of the LGBTQ community, and thus, I will have to say that I am just not there and thus am not LGBTQ+ despite what other people say. Nonetheless, I do support the rights of LGBTQ+ community to be with who they want to be with, and who they want to be. It's not a thing anyone should care about.

[Lencat]

2 minutes ago, R_1 said:

Not sure how this is hot box material

Sorry, I wasn't quite sure where to put this, where would you suggest is better?

4 minutes ago, R_1 said:

As one, I personally don't need the resource, community, or support of the LGBTQ community

This is actually very interesting, and I agree quite a bit. I know that I shouldn't care about things like this, but when a large proportion of the people I am surrounded by are part of the LGBTQ+ community, it can make some interactions... tricky to navigate.

Thank you

[LeChat]

@Lencat Hi! I'm a mod, who can help move your thread for you.

 

My suggestion would be "Asexual Musings and Rantings," but I'd be glad to move it, elsewhere, if you'd like.

[Ceebs]

It's up to you whether you want to identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community or an ally or whatever else. Whatever feels most comfortable. I'm the 'B' in that alphabet soup and I do not identify as LGBTQ+ for a variety of reasons.

[Lencat]

22 minutes ago, LeChat said:

My suggestion would be "Asexual Musings and Rantings," but I'd be glad to move it, elsewhere, if you'd like.

If you could move it to a more suitable thread please do, thank you Mod!

[LeChat]

@Lencat You're welcome.

 

(Below is an official, green, mod message.)

 

Hi. I've moved this from the "Hot Box" forum to "Asexual Musings and Rantings."

 

LeChat,

Welcome Lounge and Alternate Language moderator

[Sarah-Sylvia]

Personally I don't fully get why someone asexual wouldn't feel part of the community, since I see it as being 'different' when it comes to sexuality or gender, and asexuality fits that. But I guess it might also be that personally I'm B and T too, so do connect anyway.

I do remember talks we've had around it though, and how some felt the community was maybe a bit too sexual for them, besides the thing about being less oppressed, even if asexuality gets dismissed and invalidated, which does suck. May not face 'as much', but still do.

In the end though it comes down to how you connect and relate

[SilenceRadio]

I get your ambivalence. As a nonbinary person, I'm unsure of where I'm supposed to stand with the LGBT+ community. These days, I remind myself that the community is mostly an abstraction and its boundaries were mostly accidental. Speaking about some "inherent LGBT trait" or "inherent queerness" doesn't really make sense as well. So I don't really care about the "do I belong in the LGBT+ community?" question anymore. Not like I need any resources myself, therefore I consider myself more of an ally.

 

I'm not sure I have the greatest perspective on this issue, considering that part of the reason why I stopped identifying as ace (asides from the "too young to know" issue) was partly because of what ace exclusionists would say, and that I have both internalized and externalized those beliefs in the past. Since you've mentioned not being straight, the A for Ace/Aro/Agender, homomisic and transmisic abuse as well as "Oppression Olympics", a part of me feels interested in clarifying stuff surrounding these, but the more reasonable part of me understands that this clearly wouldn't be productive or fair. This is something only you can decide. Whether someone will agree that you're part of the community or not is another thing, but only you can make the choice to affiliate yourself with that community for yourself.

 

It's really odd, knowing that I've caused more damage than anything, but I still feel a lot of pain around the subject. Ace inclusionist arguments were simply... alienating, to me. I've spent too much time in echo chambers to be able to parse what's true from what isn't, partially because I was curious, partially because I wanted to hurt myself. No one ever told me why aces were oppressed yet straight permacelibate people weren't. As someone who did not see a very big split between the two, this led me to believe that I wasn't ace and was just like a celibate person. I remember how I convinced myself (back when I identified as cis) that if I didn't experience same-gender attraction in any way and was cis, then I wasn't a cis straight person, or at least had the same relationships to homomisia and transmisia as one, and therefore only belonged with them, as a LGBT+ community ally. How I told myself that aesthetic attraction was sexual attraction, making me "actually straight". How I desperately wanted not to be associated with asexuality or the LGBT+ community because I was afraid that I could never mentally recover otherwise. Because I felt so undeserved of the ace community and all it stood for after having been a shithead. I feel hurt by my own hurt, six/eight months afterwards.

 

So unfortunately, I don't have any sound advice, other than not exposing yourself to that sort of negativity yourself.

 

1 hour ago, Lencat said:

I know that I shouldn't care about things like this, but when a large proportion of the people I am surrounded by are part of the LGBTQ+ community, it can make some interactions... tricky to navigate.

Do you have any example?

[Sarah-Sylvia]

@SilenceRadiothis is just a side note depending on what you meant, but non-binary falls in the trans umbrella. Some non-binary folk don't use the trans label but 'technically' it's still trans. The trans flag does include them too (with the white). Some people also just fall under queer as a general open umbrella for anyone different around sexuality and gender. And to be back on topic, that does include asexuality too, but with the + and the added letters nowadays, there is active effort to include more

[verily-forsooth-egads]

"The LGBTQ community" is multifaceted. Whether you belong in it depends on what the LGBTQ space in question is for, and whether it concerns you. Sometimes it might include aces. Sometimes it might be all about trans-inclusive gay orgies. As long as you're not that asshole demanding for the latter group to include you instead of just finding a group that does, you should be welcome.

[SilenceRadio]

6 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

this is just a side note depending on what you meant, but non-binary falls in the trans umbrella. Some non-binary folk don't use the trans label but 'technically' it's still trans. The trans flag does include them too (with the white). Some people also just fall under queer as a general open umbrella for anyone different around sexuality and gender. And to be back on topic, that does include asexuality too, but with the + and the added letters nowadays, there is active effort to include more

I'm aware of that, I consider myself trans. The problem is that transness is such a doubt-ridden identity that I'm not sure if I could ever feel like I belong without thinking I'm a cis invader. And I know that even if I was still ace, I'd never consider myself LGBT+ on the basis of being ace alone. I've always felt like I need to be much more than "just trans" in order to feel worthy of it.

[Janus the Fox]

I’m a bit of both AroAce, Ally and I guess being physically part of it as a ‘man who likes men, but is a Agender trans girl’. So it’s a bit of a trifecta anomaly being in the middle lol

[Sarah-Sylvia]

7 hours ago, SilenceRadio said:

I'm aware of that, I consider myself trans. The problem is that transness is such a doubt-ridden identity that I'm not sure if I could ever feel like I belong without thinking I'm a cis invader. And I know that even if I was still ace, I'd never consider myself LGBT+ on the basis of being ace alone. I've always felt like I need to be much more than "just trans" in order to feel worthy of it.

I don't think it's a question of worth. You are how you are :). But I understand, feelings can be complex including for belonging.

[SilenceRadio]

3 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

I don't think it's a question of worth.

I think it is. We don't welcome TERFs, transmeds and anti-bi people, so considering my history, why should I be let in?

[Sarah-Sylvia]

1 hour ago, SilenceRadio said:

I think it is. We don't welcome TERFs, transmeds and anti-bi people, so considering my history, why should I be let in?

I mean, those speak against others' identities, invalidating people. Kinda different. I don't think anyone needs to earn it anyway.

Might deserve its own topic.
To me, asexuality as well deserves to be considered part of the community. I'd say probably that's becoming better too. with more time ..

[The French Unicorn]

3 hours ago, SilenceRadio said:

I think it is. We don't welcome TERFs, transmeds and anti-bi people, so considering my history, why should I be let in?

Well, if what you are saying is that you used to share similar view, I think that was counts is who you are now, not who you were in the past. People change.

 

Now to respond to the original post, it is up to you if you consider yourself part of the LGBTQIA+ or not. I think it is important that the A is there for people who feels part of it, but it doesn't force people who don't identify with the community to do so.

I also consider more of an ally than a part of the community myself. Mainly because if I go to a LGBTQIA+ events, I will likely be around people who doesn't share my identity and so I won't have a lot in common on that basis (which, by the way, doesn't refer for me to the discrimination and oppression part, tjat I see as another subject).