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AFAB Nonbinaries and politics also general feelings of inadequacy


Blue eyes white dragon

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Blue eyes white dragon

Do any of you struggle with talking about your misogynistic experiences because you're NB? Or even struggle to feel that your activism is valid for being NB like with the roe v wade stuff? I feel like Im not really non cis*  I've dealt with misogynistic stuff from being AFAB and either I have to give up being non cis in order to talk about AFAB stuff and having AFAB based medical stuff or not talk about my AFAB stuff to be a true non cis. Also I feel like I must not be non cis because I am more fluid so I'll lean more to temporarily feeling like my agab and I don't want my physical features to change permanently, especially I don't want my hair short and like my chest (except when I'm feeling more masculine). And I feel awkward expressing my gender stuff in my relationship because I think of my upbringing? how do I get the courage to express the different ways I feel asides from my agab like when I want to present more masc? Also I guess any other tips or stuff??

 

*I use non cis for myself because I'm uncertain how I feel about using NB 

Edited by Blue eyes white dragon
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SilenceRadio

To be fair, I haven't had many misogynistic experiences to start with, so I haven't had many issues, but I don't feel like I'm not allowed to talk about it. Granted, women's voices should be prioritized when it comes to misogyny since they are the main target, but that doesn't mean people of other genders or lack thereof can't chime in with their experiences. Sexism affects pretty much everyone to at least some degree, the same way an ableist society will still affect neurotypical and abled people. An issue like abortion will affect a great majority of people who were AFAB, and so this is a medical issue that affects you. Trans men definitely belong in conversations about abortion, so why wouldn't you? You don't exist in a vacuum where your past experiences are suddenly meaningless the moment you discover you're not cis. Some people would rather never speak about stuff related to their assigned gender ever again and that's great for them. But you don't have to be like these other trans people in order to be legitimate.

 

1 hour ago, Blue eyes white dragon said:

I use non cis for myself because I'm uncertain how I feel about using NB

If you don't want to use "nonbinary" for yourself, that's okay. But some people recognize that nonbinary is not a monolith, and there will be a lot of different experiences under that umbrella, some that might look closer to cis experiences than trans ones (hence why we understand that not all nonbinary people consider themselves trans). But that doesn't make them any less nonbinary. In fact, you can fully and exclusively identify with the gender you were assigned at birth and still be nonbinary if you relate to it in a different way (be it by using pronouns not commonly associated with the ones of your assigned gender or transitioning socially/medically). For example, I think some butches fully identify with womanhood but don't call themselves cis because of that sort of gender nonconformity.

 

So, if you want to use "nonbinary" for yourself, you aren't intruding at all.

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Sarah-Sylvia

I can't chime in personally, as a trans woman, but anyone can do activism for rights around pregnancy and all that, even people who can't get pregnant. But especially with like @SilenceRadiois saying there's not just women who are in the arena for their own personal rights around that as well, it includes non-binary and trans men.

 

That said, your feelings are valid, and being non-binary can be complicated so I understand. Non-binary can include connecting with the binary genders (in a non-binary way :P) and I think it makes sense to be able to connect how you do, you don't have to be binary to be able to.

I think it's normal (but not good) for trans/nb people to experience being treated like their agab, unfortunately, and I mean it's also discrimination. I don't think we should base ourselves around that for activism, it's a general societal problem too. But in whatever case there's issues and we're more affected by some than others. They're all worth activism to make better. Imo :)

 

I think it's important to be true to who you are. And then adjusting around that. Not having to be or look a certain way unless that feels good to you.

Earlier in my trans journey, I had a distaste for masculinity and only thought about femininity, but with time I settled because the truth is I do have a tomboy side. And I'm more proud of it now :), it's part of me, and there's nothing wrong with that. I do love and want to be feminine for sure too, and I'll continue wanting to have and show more as i can, but it doesn't make me less of a trans woman. However you come to see it so that you feel good about being how you are, it's all ok. I know it can take a bit to settle with it. And being nb has its own battles socially. I hope it works out for you more and more.

 

I also hope you feel you can share more around your feelings as you try to work it out for yourself too.

❤️

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Lysandre, the Star-Crossed

AMAB NB, so take what I say in light of that. 

 

I think I have a place in discussing issues pertaining to the male sex, but generally not the male gender. I think the equal and opposite applies to AFAB NB folks. In some cases their input on gender questions still is relevant, because sometimes those are more related to gender perception than gender identity.

 

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I'm currently in the process of transitioning FTM (although I prefer to call myself FTX); I've been on hormones since October after being halfway in the closet since 2013. I haven't really experienced that much interpersonal misogyny in the grand scheme of things, and I really believe that's because by the time I was old enough for men to start being creepy to me, I was presenting in a way that got me read as a butch lesbian. I don't know how butches generally interact with the world as I am not one, but I do think that men thinking of you as a butch lesbian tends to safeguard you from most sexual harassment, lol.

 

That being said, I have experienced misogyny. I hold no ill will towards my former boss but just last year I'm pretty sure I experienced workplace discrimination from him because, at the time, I was closeted and presenting as an androgynous woman and he was constantly favoring a male coworker over me. I have had some traumatic sexual experiences as well, and the context of those experiences read as explicitly misogynistic to me. I was a closeted trans kid growing up in a world that wanted to force me into a box labeled "girl" that I was very keenly aware experienced a lot more shit than that labeled as "boy." This is all to say that I have been explicitly a feminist for a long while now (I'm turning 24 this year and I've been at least aware of feminism as a political label since I was in middle school), and, as an undergrad, I was the president of the feminist org at my college for two years.

 

This is my long-winded way of saying: just talk about it. I identify as bigender, transandrogynous, genderqueer, genderfluid, and as an androgyne. I enjoy cross-dressing as a woman. Many of the transmed trans dudes hate my ass. I love to theorize on transness and transphobia and my consensus at the moment is that trans people, as a whole, are considered second-rate women (e.g., trans women's womanhood is not "correct" enough to be considered on par with "cis" womanhood, so they're treated as worse women, and trans men are constantly shuttered out of "cis" manhood because we are viewed as misbehaving women who must be punished as a consequence). We are coercively third gendered as "bad" women and that enables us to all talk about the unique experiences we have with misogyny.

 

I remember reading an article once about homophobia being the child of misogyny, which I do believe is true, but I think it's better to say that misogyny and homophobia are like, married and transphobia is their child. You're not conceding that you're a cis woman or anything by talking about the fact that you experience misogyny when you are perceived as a woman.

 

As for tips on gender presentation and things: What have you done so far? The way I work is that I keep my hair short and I have a binder and masc-leaning clothes I wear on a regular basis, and then when I wanna go girl mode I put on a wig and makeup and a dress/skirt. I'm not like extremely butch in my appearance, I'm far more androgynous. Even before starting T, people would often get confused on how to gender me.

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Blue eyes white dragon
On 5/11/2022 at 9:58 AM, gndrqrd said:

You're not conceding that you're a cis woman or anything by talking about the fact that you experience misogyny when you are perceived as a woman.

That almost made me tear up and made me feel relieved

 

On 5/11/2022 at 9:58 AM, gndrqrd said:

What have you done so far?

I havent done too much but a couple of times I have dressed more androgynous and liked how i did it so i have an idea of what I want to look like. I think I want to be more androgynous but can lean more fem or masc depending on the day but getting clothes is expensive even if I thrift shop. Its more me being nervous about doing that... I have thought about getting a binder but Im nervous about that too...

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This is more of a personal problem than a political one, but I always feel uncomfortable in discussions about reproductive freedom (etc.) as a transmasc person.  It's just an unpleasant reminder that I have organs that can be used against me.  "Women's health" stuff really presses on the dysphoria.

 

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nanogretchen4

As I see it, the voices of people who could become pregnant should be given priority when it comes to reproductive rights. For example, I can no longer become pregnant due to menopause. Therefore, overturning Roe vs. Wade will not have the same direct impact on my life as if I could be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy. As a result, I consider myself basically an ally in the fight for reproductive rights.

 

Misogyny, on the other hand, affects anyone who is likely to be perceived as female as well as anyone who is legally designated as female. Most trans people will be impacted by misogyny before and/or after transition. Therefore trans people of any gender should be included in the conversation about misogyny and sexism. I reject the idea that oppression "doesn't count" if the oppressor is mistaken about the gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or ethnicity of the person targeted for bigoted discrimination or harrassment.

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Luftschlosseule

For me, this feels like a human rights issue. The government is restricting human rights in your area, so every human should rally against that to the best of their abilities.
And being in Germany, I am not impacted at all by the law, so I don't see why if you're impacted or not should weigh in if you have opinions on mistakes those in charge make.

 

I still an transitioning myself, but I found doing small steps works best. And when you feel like a bigger one would be perfect right this second, go for it!

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