Why is moving out seen as a step into adulthood?

[Sally]

On 5/4/2022 at 2:55 AM, Phalena said:

Is that a generalised 'you'?

Yes.  

[coolshades]

3 hours ago, Lilibulero said:

Seconded. If you save the government a mass of money by keeping parents out of nursing homes, they just think of you as a soft touch.

I had a friend who lived in another country, and he told me they didn't even have nursing homes. The idea of putting your parents in a home instead of caring for them yourself was abhorrent to him.  For him, taking care of his elderly parents was his duty as their eldest child, and he had a responsibility to them because they raised him.  I am not sure how the USA and other countries got into this habit of shuffling their parents off to nursing homes.

[daveb]

What about people who don't have kids to take care of them? Or do have kids, but for whatever reasons the kids are not capable of providing care (such as, because the kids themselves need care)?

[Lord Jade Cross]

48 minutes ago, coolshades said:

I had a friend who lived in another country, and he told me they didn't even have nursing homes. The idea of putting your parents in a home instead of caring for them yourself was abhorrent to him.  For him, taking care of his elderly parents was his duty as their eldest child, and he had a responsibility to them because they raised him.  I am not sure how the USA and other countries got into this habit of shuffling their parents off to nursing homes.

Im againts this type of ideal because its presented as an obligation when parents did not have you under obligation.

 

They chose to keep you, but it always a choice. They could have just as easily have you aborted or given away for adoption. The fact that a parent chooses to keep a child is not some form of blood contract you sign in exchnage for being born. I would also add that just keeping a kid is not a sign of parenting because you can be a provider for 18 years and never a parent and the "I gave you life" is a BS guilt inducing/gaslighting excuse parents have to manipulate their kids into being obedient servants.

 

Just as it was their choice to keep you, its your choice wether to take it upon yourself to be their caretaker or not in later years. And this should always be considered with how they treated you while growing up because the title of parent is not an excuse to do as you please with your kid and them outright demand them to care for you.

 

You reap what you sow as a parent. Its why we have the saying, "breed crows and they will pluck your eyes out". If you treated your child right, chances are they will care for you when older, no questions asked. Do the opposite however, and dont be surprise when they just leave you to die, as it should be 

[coolshades]

8 minutes ago, daveb said:

What about people who don't have kids to take care of them? Or do have kids, but for whatever reasons the kids are not capable of providing care (such as, because the kids themselves need care)?

I asked my friend the same question.  He said other family members would step in, such as nephews and nieces.

 

Here, though, if there's no one to provide you with care I guess you could hire in-home care if you have the money. But you also need money for nursing homes, and they are NOT cheap.  So what does a person who does not have a lot of money do?  Are there any nursing homes that do *not* cost money? 😕

[coolshades]

1 minute ago, Lord Jade Cross said:

Im againts this type of ideal because its presented as an obligation when parents did not have you under obligation.

 

They chose to keep you, but it always a choice. They could have just as easily have you aborted or given away for adoption. The fact that a parent chooses to keep a child is not some form of blood contract you sign in exchnage for being born. I would also add that just keeping a kid is not a sign of parenting because you can be a provider for 18 years and never a parent and the "I gave you life" is a BS guilt i ducing/gaslighting excuse parents have to manipulate their kids into being obedient servants.

 

Just as it was their choice to keep you, its your choice wether to take it upon yourself to be their caretaker or not in later years. And this should always be considered with how they treated you while growing up because the title of parent is not an excuse to do as you please with your kid and them outright demand them to care for you. Id sooner let them die

I do agree that it should still be the child's choice.  I have a great relationship with my parents, but I told them a long time ago that I am not going to be their caretaker when they become unable to live independently, because I'm just not that type of person.  I'll take care of school-aged kids all day long, but not elderly adults.  I commend people like my brother-in-law's brother who have worked for years in senior care facilities, because I could never do it.  Thankfully my sister, who is very anti-nursing home, agreed years ago to handle their care, and I've agreed to help her financially when needed.

[daveb]

16 minutes ago, coolshades said:

But you also need money for nursing homes, and they are NOT cheap.  So what does a person who does not have a lot of money do?

True

 

I guess some countries will have some sort of state-provided care, but it might be sub-par. 

 

Yeah, I agree about being a caretaker of elderly parents should be a child's choice. Some are better suited for it. Some are more inclined to do it. My parents are both aging in place at their respective houses. My mother doesn't have a lot of means. My dad is much better off in that regard. And on the plus side, several of my siblings live in the same area as them and are ready and able to help out with things like grocery shopping and things other than daily in home care.

 

As for myself, I live too far away for regular visits, much less frequent care. And for my own care, ever since I turned 18 it has been up to me to provide it and I expect that to be the case as I age. It will be up to me to figure out what to do.

[Sally]

4 hours ago, coolshades said:

Are there any nursing homes that do *not* cost money? 😕

No.  If the money has to be supplied by the federal government in the US, the nursing homes are not place where anyone would want to be.  

 

And regarding what @daveb said about our having to figure out how to care for ourselves, the looming wave of age-related dementia in the US will make that impossible.  

[Lord Jade Cross]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:30 AM, Sally said:

No.  If the money has to be supplied by the federal government in the US, the nursing homes are not place where anyone would want to be.  

 

And regarding what @daveb said about our having to figure out how to care for ourselves, the looming wave of age-related dementia in the US will make that impossible.  

I think dementia will be the least of the problems the upcoming retiree generation will face. Theyre more likely to die out on the streets due to not being able to afford housing or even basic needs

[Guest]

It depends where you are from. In many Eastern European countries and some Asian countries families live together for quite some time. In the Western world the pressure is on us to live independently from a young age. But with the cost of living crisis and house prices I honestly think society needs to adjust. I don't understand the attitude that having to scrape by barely living properly just in order to live independently is somehow a sign of adulthood or right of passage. If you can be more comfortable at home with parents and thus live a better quality of life both physically and mentally, and your parents are OK with the situation, what is the problem? It totally depends on how compatible you are with your parents of course, and it can be awkward if you want to do your own thing or stay out late etc. I live with my parents and I'm 34 next month. I have struggled with a chronic health condition which means I have never been able to work so cannot afford to move out. Even when healthy, I cannot conceivably see myself earning enough to move out due to lack of experience, the job type I want in the future, and lack of earnings for over ten years. I honestly think I will always live with my parents. My mum's cousin is 60 and still lives with her parents because of health issues that affect her ability to work full time. I am embarrassed by it, even though I know I shouldn't be, but society labels me a loser for not being independent. 

[TheNoPrincess]

Yes, its a lot harder than just "pull yourself up by your bootstrings" I literally  don't make enough money. I didn't have two parents growing up only one and she was poor also. Working for 10 dollars an hour isn't enough for me to buy my own apartment. I am single and have no sort of friendships so I can't just get a roommate or get married. I understand where you are coming from, I know that people are saying you can't fully grow up until you move out...maybe....maybe not but it beats being homeless. Sometimes I don't have enough money to pay the copay at the Doctors office and I feel like people look down on me for it. There's always that judgment from people when they find out you don't have much or any income....Everyone story is different so personally I don't think its fair to compare lives and expect everyone to meet the same criteria.  

[Sally]

It isn't that continuing to live with your parents/family is a bad thing -- of course it's not, if everyone wants that to be the case.  If I had family (which I don't), and if we got along, and we had a house that was big enough for everyone to feel comfortable, I think that would be  great.  

 

However, if we're talking about experiencing being a self-supporting, self-sufficient adult, living alone is much more likely to give you that experience than living with family.  The latter is interdependence, physically and financially, and there's always going to be a semblance of not having gone "out" into the world.  Living alone is independence -- you must take care of yourself.  

[Lord Jade Cross]

I wonder though about this idea of not having gone out into the world and what exactly it would provide for people who really dont want or care about the outside world which is more common these days (I mean you can basically live through app services if you have enough cash) whether they live with family or not, at least compared to the past where it seemed everyone ached to be free from parents/guardians.

 

Though back then, you did have something to look forward to as a young adult getting to be 18. Nowadays if you finish high school, your options are getting into massive debt guessing which career is likely to make it viable to make a life out of and weve seen the market become overly saturated that a degree is a useless neccesary evil; or go straight into the labor force and much like if you have a degree, youre doomed to live paycheck to paycheck unless you come up with a revolutionary idea that makes you wealthy or are severely lucky in finding money, both of which ard highly unlikely for most people.

 

At least for me, it be no different whether I lived with family than on my own. I get that the message here is that there wont be anyone there for you to fall back on so you have to think on your feet; but if you already have that type of situation to begin with and have to find solutions to problems, even ones you havent created, is there any difference?

 

[Reindeer]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:49 PM, Phalena said:

It's increasingly expensive and a person ma have to decide between their own place or having savings at all. Many can't afford to move far away anyway because of older parents that might need care soon and living alone can come with the risk of having no one in close proximity to help out if something goes wrong.

I'm asking because I'm being set under a lot of pressure to move out and with all the shit going on in uni I can't handle the thought of it. I've done the first steps to rent a place, I'm already afraid of becoming homeless because I'm piss poor and I feel like the people in the house want to get rid of me.

 

I don't see much opportunity in moving to a bigger city if I'm too poor to make use of it. For that I'd need money. And I don't want to leave home. But if I don't then I'm a failure to the family like my parents that have driven their lives into the wall.

 

Edit (addition): I'm living with my grandma and my 2 siblings. When we used to live with our parents the roles between guardians and children was reversed. I had to 'adult' since the age of 10. The people that set me under pressure know this and barely show any respect for it and neither do they see me as a full adult despite the Fast that I may have as many, or in the case of most people my age that I know even more, responsibilities as them and that not just since yesterday. I'm tired of being seen as a spoiler baby when I have in fact done all the parental duties that my parents haven't since being a minor.

 

First off some things to Consider 

 

*In some countries children do not move out until they get married/Also in these type of places families actually have different family values 

 

*In places like America, leaving the nest is more or less expected 

 

*You are expected to move out to become an adult since when you are with parents you are being cared for and never have to live on your own/This is also a problem with many parents as they have the philosophy "My House, My rules" - My mother for example still dictated my bedtime when I had my own job, and took all my money when I did get a job. Since until I left the house I was essentially just property/Like a child often is 

 

*Some children often take advantage of this fact and never want to get a job under the idea "Mom and dad will take care of me forever" 

 

*Living on your own makes you realize "Oh right I have to figure this out on my own or I am basically homeless" 

 

I moved out on my own and I do not regret living without my parents or away from my family. 

 

I realize I am alone, I have always been really. I will survive even if I have to move city and city and I don't know where I will end up at the end of my years but it really doesn't make a difference. When I first gained my freedom and realized I had no one to answer to I was so happy. I finally got a choice and was not burdened as everyone's worthless dog. 

 

The Fact is Children are property, and adults are strays. Which one do you want to be? 

 

 

 

[Phalena]

49 minutes ago, Reindeer said:

*You are expected to move out to become an adult since when you are with parents you are being cared for and never have to live on your own/This is also a problem with many parents as they have the philosophy "My House, My rules" - My mother for example still dictated my bedtime when I had my own job, and took all my money when I did get a job. Since until I left the house I was essentially just property/Like a child often is 

 

*Some children often take advantage of this fact and never want to get a job under the idea "Mom and dad will take care of me forever"

Yeaaaah, parents taking care of me never applied. But I do have a somewhat stable support system with my grandma and siblings. It's so hard to imagine living without them and literally having no net to fall onto anymore. Especially financially. I'm also worried that the state will remember that apparently I owe my mum 'parent' support. Because for whatever fucking reason it won't let any chance to ruin young, vulnerable peoples' lives pass.

 

52 minutes ago, Reindeer said:

I realize I am alone, I have always been really. I will survive even if I have to move city and city and I don't know where I will end up at the end of my years but it really doesn't make a difference. When I first gained my freedom and realized I had no one to answer to I was so happy. I finally got a choice and was not burdened as everyone's worthless dog. 

 

The Fact is Children are property, and adults are strays. Which one do you want to be?

I know, I'm just an internet stranger: You're not alone, you have us!

The last two sentences weirdly made me feel better. Thank you!

[notactuallymerida]

On 5/3/2022 at 12:19 PM, ben8884 said:

Personally, I dont see the appeal. In my idea society, people could live with their parents and contribute to the home with their own money and such. They take on more responsibility but make their home stronger. 

That’s actually fairly common where I’m from. You’ll have two or three generations living in the same house or next door and if everyone gets along well, it’s amazing. You can divide chores between a lot more people and there’s always someone there to look after elderly family members or children. I don’t get why people would look down upon that. If it’s about independency, you can have separated households, but still live in the same house. 

[ben8884]

16 hours ago, notactuallymerida said:

That’s actually fairly common where I’m from. You’ll have two or three generations living in the same house or next door and if everyone gets along well, it’s amazing. You can divide chores between a lot more people and there’s always someone there to look after elderly family members or children. I don’t get why people would look down upon that. If it’s about independency, you can have separated households, but still live in the same house. 

That sounds great! The thing about independence too, is that, we can still have our independence. If I had children and they chose to live with at say, 30 years old, I wouldn't expect them to ask my permission to go out, neither would I pay them an allowance. 

[notactuallymerida]

20 hours ago, ben8884 said:

That sounds great! The thing about independence too, is that, we can still have our independence. If I had children and they chose to live with at say, 30 years old, I wouldn't expect them to ask my permission to go out, neither would I pay them an allowance. 

A lot of people fear that people living with their parents wouldn’t know how to do simple tasks like cleaning and cooking. But that’s actually so easy to avoid if everyone has to do chores and you try to educate your children from an early age on. 

[ben8884]

1 hour ago, notactuallymerida said:

A lot of people fear that people living with their parents wouldn’t know how to do simple tasks like cleaning and cooking. But that’s actually so easy to avoid if everyone has to do chores and you try to educate your children from an early age on. 

Exactly. There seems to be a misconception that living with your parents means that you are still treated like a kid. When I was 14 I would cook family dinners. Both my parents taught me how to cook. If I were still living with them I would contribute financially but also take on more responsibilities. 

[Gloomy]

When I was still living with my dad and I was either still in college and didn’t have a job or I was only working 15 hours a week, I did most of the household chores and cooked dinner for the both of us. My dad never even told me to do that, it was mostly my idea since I felt kind of bad if I wasn’t doing much around the house when I was at home more than my dad who was working 60+ hours a week. Of course once I started working full time too, the household stuff got more evenly split between us.

[Dreamfyre]

I guess as it means you are on your own and making your way in the world without your parents? Idk this seems like a western thing (?)

 

It's not really seen as such in my culture or country. Kids usually live with and take care if the parents as they grow older. My uncle is almost 70, he still lives with and cares for my grandmother. Being able to take care of your parents who once took care of you is basically "adulthood" to us.

[thylacine]

I think it's okay as long as you're working and paying the bills for upkeep of the home and contributing and stuff.  Plus a lot of elderly family members do need help.  Also, I think it's actually selfish and immature to abandon elderly parents when they are getting frail and need help the most.  People move out to have a live in girlfriend / boyfriend, stay up all night having beers with buddies or whatever, while the old folks are home figuring out if they can afford their medication and home heating oil and having cat food for dinner.  Let's be honest - old folks might not want to admit they need help, but they do.  Times are tough.  Grow up and be a real adult and do the right thing - help grandma.  Just my opinion, that's all.  So stop with the video games and go out and work and buy the groceries.

[daveb]

For me (probably influenced by culture) it was also about not wanting to live at "home" any longer. "Home" was too noisy, chaotic, and hectic for my tastes. Living on my own gives me more choice in things and I don't have to deal with other people if I don't want to.  

[AavaMeri]

I'm glad I moved out, because I mostly want my own peace and quiet. That said, sometimes I think about my parents growing old and possibly needing assistance, which makes me think that I could move back to them and being their live-in helper. It would require me to move to another city though, and I would need to look for a job there.

[Sally]

Moving out is an event of separation.  It means that you are recognizing that you will be living as an individual, not solely as a member of a familial group.  Even if you contribute to the common finances when you live with your family, you haven't separated.  And separation doesn't mean that you aren't still part of the family, or that you don't love your family or that you can't ask for help when you need it, or give help when they need it.  It means that your life exists within your own individual living space, and that you are responsible for your life in that individual living space.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, helenbea said:

I believe that moving to a dormitory in college is the initial stage of growing up that you should by no means skip. 

 What about if you can't afford to move out to college? Especially with the current cost of living crisis, many students can't afford food or bills. I stayed at home and commuted to university - it was the only uni in the country that allowed me to take the two subjects I wanted to study. I knew other people who initially moved out and couldn't cope so moved back home and went local. My ex bf struggled with moving out, he was very homesick and anxious. When he graduated he had to move back home anyway and lived there for a further 5 years until he could afford to move out. While he was at home he cooked and did food shopping and cleaning to help his mum out so it wasn't as if he wasn't getting independent experience by being at home. I think everyone "grows up" at different times and at their own pace. I don't believe that everyone should have to do certain things by a certain age. Some people are ready for independence by moving out to college but others are not and it makes focusing on your work alot harder if you're also struggling socially, financially or with mental health. I believe people should make the right choice for them at the right time rather than be pressured into something they've expected to do. 

[uhtred]

At some point in your life you need to be able to live completely without your parents - if nothing else, they are very likely to die before you do.  So its a necessary step in life.

 

It might be possible to live at home truely independent, where your parents are just landlords, but that rarely happens.  They are still your "parents" and the relationship can never be purely business.  

[GingerRose]

With my career field, I look at it from an animal science perspective:

 

Many apes, like the chimpanzee for example will have a fur appearance differing from the adults signifying to the other family members that they are the baby and should be treated with exceptions to social rules within the family. This lasts for about 7 years, being one of the longer childhoods (other than ours) in the animal world. Their fur changes after this age and they have matured to be treated like the others in the family group. Age means a lot for us too, We have come up with what an adult is to be considered by both development (like the chimpanzee) and social ideals (very human). Moving away from chimpanzees, who stay with family groups for a long time compared to other animals, for instance the great horned owl. Their babies stay with the parents for a few months till they are 'encouraged' to make their own family (even chased off my parents if they get too comfortable) Just like many other animals, leaving the family (or family home) is a vital step in survival, either for the animal's own gain or its species in evolutionary continuation.