Dr. Joy Davidson transcripts

[funaladanaly]

This woman made me so mad watching her on Montel and 20/20, I typed up both interviews with her.

Is it just me, or does anyone else here find her to be the enemy? I know it sounds silly, but she isn't being very open, and actually calls asexuals names in 20/20 (I do considering being called narrow-minded a mean name).

FIRST PART OF MONTEL:

Montel: Would you consider asexuality one of the categories now? You have homosexuality, bisexuality, now we have to add asexuality?

Davidson: At this point there is really no scientific backing for the idea that asexuality is an orientation. We just don’t know enough about it yet. So the claim is a bit spurious. What we have to understand when we talk about our sexuality is that it is extremely complicated and it is a vital, dynamic process that grows and changes and involves every part of who we are. We are made up of so many elements, so many components, we are so colorful sexually that trying to put ourselves in little boxes… before fully exploring all of the possibilities, all of the feelings, and looking at them from both a neurological point of view, an emotional point of view, a relational point of view, and a physiological point of view means that we are seeing ourselves completely.

Montel: So if we’re buying that we have that this big spectrum of what we consider sexuality, then we must throw in this spectrum that there are people out there who just don’t care. Don’t want sex. Don’t want that type of intimate relationship. They don’t mind being hugged, they don’t mind being kissed, they just don’t want to go any further….I’m just trying to figure this out.

Davidson: And we’re all trying to figure it out!

Montel: If you never try it, how do you know you don’t like it?

Davidson: You can’t ask someone to do something what doesn’t feel right to them. You can’t force sex on anybody, including someone who is sexually desirous. I think the point is that we have to ask, what makes us desire? What makes us turn off the desire, and there are so many factors that leave us desiring or not…. Nevertheless, there are numerous conditions that have the symptom of lack of interest or desire for sex.

ASEXUALS SPEAK.

SECOND PART OF MONTEL:

Montel: Please welcome back the author of the book Fearless Sex…Dr. Joy Davidson. Welcome back to the show. She’s been backstage. I deliberately didn’t let you sit out here during the entire show because I wanted you to just listen, I didn’t want you to influence me at all…looking at me raising an eybrow wanting to ask a question. So now you’ve had a chance to hear this. And?

Davidson: And I’ve been jumping out of my seat back there. What is disturbing to me is that not that I take issue with anyone’s own personal experience. What is disturbing to me is the level of misinformation being communicated to viewers and thousands of people out there who are struggling, who are questioning, who are confused. A) Yes there is a correlation between asexuality and various physiological conditions: Asperger’s syndrome, Kleinfeld syndrome, none of which is even mentioned on your website. These are chromosomal and neurological abnormalities.

Asexual people: We have many active members with Aspergers, and they have joined together, and discuss it quite often.

Davidson: I believe that. I searched your website, and I couldn’t find one single mention, nothing scholarly on your website, nothing written by experts, nothing that has a basis in scientific evidence, and no one with any qualifications speaking on the subject about the hormonal conditions. For example, when you do not have the proper degree of sex hormones, or balanced hormones in your body, you do not feel interested in sex, and the idea of having interest seems outrageous. So to say I don’t want sex and if someone gave me a pill to be sexual, and I wouldn’t want it, is indicative of a hormonal imbalance. Not that you have a hormonal balance…I’m saying its one of the things we hear all the time when people do have hormonal imbalances, so there are so many flags, so much information on this topic that people who are struggling, who feel out of sorts with the rest of…their…

Montel to Asexys: What if someone goes to your website and feels as she does, who doesn’t understand…but what a minute, comes up with a group of people who says, “Oh the heck with it, don’t care whether or not people don’t like the fact if you are having sex or not, just live with what you have. But what if they don’t want to live that way?

Asexy founder: We do tell people, especially if they experience sudden change of sexual desire, to check with a doctor to see if there is anything associated with it that may have negative side effects. My question is [to Dr. Davidson] you seem to be talking about two things - a lack of sexuality, which we don’t consider a negative side affect (Davidson looks bewildered here) or other physiological conditions that could have a negative side affect. If something is happening to a person’s body that is having negative side affects and diminishing sexual desire, then by all means, they should have it checked out.

Montel: What if they don’t know it?

Davidson: That’s the point - they won’t know it. If they reach adulthood without being aware of these conditions, because of other syndromes, when they find you, they may think they have found home. Now maybe some indeed have, but others need to have much more information than you are offering, and need information offered by experts (lists types of experts).

Asexy founder: What’s written about asexuality? Because I’d love to put it on the site if I have permission to.

Davidson: You’ve never asked me, and I’ve written about asexuality. (very cocky)

Asexy founder: I’ve written emails to you before where I haven‘t gotten responses. Maybe they didn’t…yeah.

Davidson: The point is, you are in a sense recruiting from among a group of people who are in dire need of a genuine education.

Asexy girl: We aren’t a place you go to hide from your sexuality. This is a place to go to ask questions about your sexuality. If you are just looking to hide from a problem, we aren’t the place for you.

Montel: But you see the question was: What if you don’t even know you are looking to hide from a problem? What if you were a child born with Aspergers, and don’t know, live your entire life, then at 16 years old, think that the place that you belong is with you guys, and maybe I never had the opportunity…

Asexy girl: If you have Aspergers, you’re going to have a lot more symptoms than asexuality. There are going to have much bigger issues.

Montel: But, I can also tell you, lets make sure we tell the truth now. We’ll give out as much fact. Asperger’s has as a wide spectrum as what you have talked about with asexuality.

Davidson: That’s right, that’s right.

Montel: Stop, don’t say that. Some people can just experience just that little piece and not even know it. You have people born autistic who don’t know they are autistic until they are 50 years old. So again lets back up and say, What if I’m that person, and I’m struggling, but now I’ve been validated by a group of people who haven’t taken the time…in some ways, to give me all the medical information I could have utilized to figure out who I am. You’re saying to stop to find out who you are, and if in fact she’s right and I don’t have enough information to look at that entire spectrum, all I get is the okay with the fact that you don’t like sex, I may not be fulfilling myself of anything.

Asexy founder: What we’re saying is we think its okay, we’re happy, and here is a place you can come to explore yourself. Here is a place you can talk about yourself. We’re not saying, come to the asexual community and then just give up trying to figure out who you are. it’s a community where we’re very actively asking questions about ourselves.

Montel: [shortened because he speaks fast] There are probably doctors out there watching this, that need to understand there is a website with 12,000 people on it asking questions, and what they ought to do is have doctors inputting and start offering information to it.

Asexy founder: I’ve been speaking at conferences, and trying to do outreach to the scientific community to help make some of these connections.

Montel: Well lets get this information out there to help everybody, right!

Audience claps.

Montel final words [shortened] : I buy it that if there is a bell curve, and there are extremes, you all may just be the extreme, and I wish you the best.

-------------------------------------------------------------

On 20/20

Davidson: Sex is a fabulous and enormously pleasurable aspect of life. And saying you don’t miss it is like a color blind person saying he doesn’t miss color. Of course you don’t miss what you’ve never had.

Narrator: Dr. Joy Davidson, a certified sex therapist, says that a litany of factors may be to blame.

Davidson: There may be something, maybe something physiological, intricate, maybe something that has to do with trauma or abuse, or repression or a severe religiosity that has predisposed you to shutting down the possibility of being sexually engaged.

[Cut to asexy people saying that they are happy, yay! 20/20 has a good spin on the asexys.]

Narrator: Can labeling oneself asexual become a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Davidson: You may as well label yourself not curious, unadventurous, narrow-minded, blind to possibilities. That’s what happens when you label yourself as…as…sexually neutered.

[mindlife]

Davidson: At this point there is really no scientific backing for the idea that asexuality is an orientation. We just don’t know enough about it yet.

And then, over the falls in the barrel . . .

So the claim is a bit spurious. ... You may as well label yourself not curious, unadventurous, narrow-minded, blind to possibilities. That’s what happens when you label yourself as…as…sexually neutered.

It's the all or nothing false dilemma. I don't know about you, but I feel my gender and sanity are completely intact.

Sex therapy is obviously not science.

[noise]

she is a useless tool. honestly.

[Charlieee]

I love how she says that there's no information about Asperger's and stuff on AVEN, yet I've learned more about the condition here than I have anywhere else... :lol:

She forgets the possibility that... let's say I have a hormonal imbalance, the result being a lack of desire, with no other symptoms. Who's forcing me to correct that imbalance? If it has only one symptom, and I like that symptom, why do I need to change it?

[funaladanaly]

She forgets the possibility that... let's say I have a hormonal imbalance, the result being a lack of desire, with no other symptoms. Who's forcing me to correct that imbalance? If it has only one symptom, and I like that symptom, why do I need to change it?

I was thinking the exact same thing! Today I went to my hair stylist, and I was telling her how I broke up with my last boyfriend because I didn't like the touching. She was like, "Well, just you wait, when you find that special guy..."

I said, maybe, but I'm going on 27 and I haven't wanted it yet. I just find kissing absolutely disgusting. I never got into that puberty teenage stage :P

To tell the truth, I like myself this way. I feel liberated not wanting to have sex. I think its a wonderful feeling!

[cait]

I totally agree with Davidson, I think we are all sinful sinful people to have this website and not have all the answers, especially in hard scientific facts. Who the hell do we think we are?

NOT.

Actually, I believe it is the individual responsibility of every human being to educate him or herself, NOT to expect someone else to do it for them! I think a major problem with Davidson is that she feels everyone really needs something to latch onto. She feels that there should be a prescribed doctrine to sexuality that people should be able to simply listen to and not have to question or expand upon. She is frustrated that this doctrine she is forever in search of does not exist, and the fact that a website about a particular way of experiencing sexuality is completely at odds with her imaginary dogma astounds her. She cannot reconcile the opinions here with her own set of moralistic views.

Therefore, to her, a disinterest in sex MUST stem from medical problems.

Davidson seems to think that people who come here and feel at home are instantly going to stop thinking about their issues and just label themselves with something that isn't their "true problem". But we want her to comprehend that it's not actually a problem. And you really and truly do not need to rely that heavily on science to go about "fixing" yourself. Why can't we embrace our issues? Everyone has them. Why do we need to fix them with science? I think people come here to understand and discuss certain issues they have, but AVEN is not our LIVES. We do have lives outside of this website! We are not in a box. Of course tons of people here are exploring other possibilities, but we just don't think about sex as often as Dr. Joy Davidson.

Mind you, it's great that we are searching for answer scientifically, and it's neat that this topic so confounds people. I don't know, it's just something about this woman that comes off as utterly frantic to me. She's an odd bird. Is she sexually frustrated or something?

[ily]

Anyone else find it pretty ironic that her book's called "Fearless Sex"? From everything she's saying, it's a classic case of fearing something that you don't understand.

For me, I have a very satisfying sex life. I don't want sex, and don't have it! No need for a sex therapist there. She probably finds us threatening. I think we should tie her up and feed her AVENcake until she relents. :P

[Octarine]

I love how she says that there's no information about Asperger's and stuff on AVEN, yet I've learned more about the condition here than I have anywhere else... :lol:

Yeah, I've learned a ton here that not only has helped me be sure and feel better about myself, but helped me understand and assimilate with sexuals better.

If it wasn't for this site I probably would still be wondering what was wrong with me, or with everyone else. Now I know that I am different and have all these theories why, but at the same time I've learned that sexuality is not a bad thing, because sexuals and asexuals alike come here to understand each other better. It works.

We don't just force a label on someone and try and get them to accept it. We try to sort through what they don't know with our experience to get them to stop being confused and/or feeling that they have a problem. And, in our experience, sometimes it is just fear about sex. Sometimes teenagers do grow out of it. And we applaud people for finding that out about themselves.

I don't think she could be more wrong about what we tell people here.

[KittyKat]

Davidson: Sex is a fabulous and enormously pleasurable aspect of life. And saying you don’t miss it is like a color blind person saying he doesn’t miss color. Of course you don’t miss what you’ve never had.

I HATE when people speak of it that way. The whole, "don't knock it til you've tried it" and "not missing what you haven't had" bullcrap.

Okay, fine, they may have a point. But until each and every one of these people is willing to try to have a fullfilling relationship/life WITHOUT sex, they should just shut up. Don't knock a sexless relationship and what it has to offer until you've tried THAT. You can't miss that if you've never tried it!

Asexy founder: What’s written about asexuality? Because I’d love to put it on the site if I have permission to.

Davidson: You’ve never asked me, and I’ve written about asexuality. (very cocky)

Yeah, like that? That it doesn't exist and we're all a bunch of dysfunctional people? That doesn't count.

Davidson: The point is, you are in a sense recruiting from among a group of people who are in dire need of a genuine education

Why don't we start by educating you about asexuality?Narrator: Can labeling oneself asexual become a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Davidson: You may as well label yourself not curious, unadventurous, narrow-minded, blind to possibilities. That’s what happens when you label yourself as…as…sexually neutered

Might as well label her narrow-minded for not accepting that just MAYBE there are indeed people out there who just AREN'T INTERESTED. Oh right, there's only a few thousand of us!

I hate it when people, especially experts, are so threated by virginity/asexuality that they attempt to make those who are feel inferior.

[cait]

Davidson: Sex is a fabulous and enormously pleasurable aspect of life. And saying you don’t miss it is like a color blind person saying he doesn’t miss color. Of course you don’t miss what you’ve never had.

I HATE when people speak of it that way. The whole, "don't knock it til you've tried it" and "not missing what you haven't had" bullcrap.

Me too. It's like a person who's never tried heroine who says they don't miss heroine. Of course once you've tried it you want it again, but that doesn't mean we're not better off without it! Holy crap.

[Shouri]

I agree with what some have said. The problem I see (and this is of course just my opinion) is that everyone is so focused on medication, therapy and fixing things we think are wrong with us. Everywhere you look it's ADD, depression, bipolar... Yes, there are some people who really need treatment since they're a danger to themselves and others... But for the rest of us, why are we so quick to slap a label on our kids when they act out, and give them prozac or ritilin?

The problem is society has changed so much from how it used to be. No one takes responsibility for themselves anymore, they blame their parents for not raising them right, they blame the fast food industry for making food that makes them fat, they don't look at themselves and say, hey, maybe I should take responsibility.

I think that's what we do here, more than anything. Because we're defying society's standards, and saying 'there's nothing wrong with me, I like myself this way'.

It's unfortunate that people think just because we lable ourselves as asexual we don't know anything about it, or it's some hormonal imbalance that has to be corrected. Do they say that about gay or lesbians? That they just need to be 'cured'? Not anymore, most of them don't.

I think people like this woman are just a good example of the paranoia of today's society about curing everything we don't understand.

[Charlieee]

The problem is society has changed so much from how it used to be. No one takes responsibility for themselves anymore, they blame their parents for not raising them right, they blame the fast food industry for making food that makes them fat, they don't look at themselves and say, hey, maybe I should take responsibility.

I think that's what we do here, more than anything. Because we're defying society's standards, and saying 'there's nothing wrong with me, I like myself this way'.

*applause* :D

It's unfortunate that people think just because we lable ourselves as asexual we don't know anything about it, or it's some hormonal imbalance that has to be corrected. Do they say that about gay or lesbians? That they just need to be 'cured'? Not anymore, most of them don't.

As it's been said before... we're pretty much on the same track that homosexuality was on ~20 years ago. :D

[ily]

As it's been said before... we're pretty much on the same track that homosexuality was on ~20 years ago. :D

I think so...exciting huh? :D

[Charlieee]

As it's been said before... we're pretty much on the same track that homosexuality was on ~20 years ago. :D

I think so...exciting huh? :D

*looks up timeline* Well, the first homosexual couple was recorded in about the 24/25th century BCE (Egypt's Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum), and homosexuality wasn't taken off the DSM-II until 1973... so.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

*raises cup of root beer* To better future visibilities! :D

[Hallucigenia]

I agree with what some have said. The problem I see (and this is of course just my opinion) is that everyone is so focused on medication, therapy and fixing things we think are wrong with us. Everywhere you look it's ADD, depression, bipolar... Yes, there are some people who really need treatment since they're a danger to themselves and others... But for the rest of us, why are we so quick to slap a label on our kids when they act out, and give them prozac or ritilin?

The problem is society has changed so much from how it used to be. No one takes responsibility for themselves anymore, they blame their parents for not raising them right, they blame the fast food industry for making food that makes them fat, they don't look at themselves and say, hey, maybe I should take responsibility.

Um... I'm not sure what these two paragraphs have to do with each other.

Finding the right medication, if you're the sort of person who needs that sort of thing, has NOTHING TO DO with a lack of responsibility. In fact, for people who really need psychiatric medicine (which most asexuals don't), saying "There's nothing wrong with me and I like me this way" rather than taking the darn pills is the most irresponsible thing you can do.

Maybe I'm just tired and reading your post wrong, but bleah.

[kandemose]

I agree with what some have said. The problem I see (and this is of course just my opinion) is that everyone is so focused on medication, therapy and fixing things we think are wrong with us. Everywhere you look it's ADD, depression, bipolar... Yes, there are some people who really need treatment since they're a danger to themselves and others... But for the rest of us, why are we so quick to slap a label on our kids when they act out, and give them prozac or ritilin?

The problem is society has changed so much from how it used to be. No one takes responsibility for themselves anymore, they blame their parents for not raising them right, they blame the fast food industry for making food that makes them fat, they don't look at themselves and say, hey, maybe I should take responsibility.

Um... I'm not sure what these two paragraphs have to do with each other.

Finding the right medication, if you're the sort of person who needs that sort of thing, has NOTHING TO DO with a lack of responsibility. In fact, for people who really need psychiatric medicine (which most asexuals don't), saying "There's nothing wrong with me and I like me this way" rather than taking the darn pills is the most irresponsible thing you can do.

Maybe I'm just tired and reading your post wrong, but bleah.

I think what Shouri is saying is that society is encouraging people not to use their own judgement and to presuppose everything as a clinical disorder; that the many people who do not need treatment are being told to suspend responsibility over their own lives and give it over to society for fixing (read: conforming). While the two paragraphs seem to be decrying different problems, the common thread is that people let societal norms determine so much of their behaviour that many folks who are "just different" either try to medicate themselves out of it or blame an external factor for making them that way.

[/wild speculation]

[thylacine]

" think what Shouri is saying is that society is encouraging people not to use their own judgement and to presuppose everything as a clinical disorder; that the many people who do not need treatment are being told to suspend responsibility over their own lives and give it over to society for fixing (read: conforming)."

I agree. Our conformist society is hell bent on making everyone look alike, act alike, and think alike. And I for one am sick & tired of it.