Asexuality and men..mmm...really?

[Camella]

You can hurt my mind but you can't crush my soul... my inner god spark shines FOREVER baby!!! 8)

[HappyCrone]

Ok well rape is rarely about sex anyway, its a power thing.

I think men have been given a bad deal in the first place. Society as a whole ozzes sex sex sex, instead of love, trust, friendship first. Do fathers tell their sons to go out and sow your seed!? and mothers tell their daughters to keep your legs crossed? Double standards for sure.

What about telling all our children about feelings of deep love, respect,

without that sex is just another function, like peeing, spitting etc.

It's doesn't matter how sexual your are, it's how human you are.

[Lucy Locket]

The two cases you cited, Rose and Myra, were both cases of a female falling in love with a man who instigated her to do those things. They were notorious precisely because they were women.

I've read in more than one biography of the Wests that Rose molested her younger brother before she met Fred.

Ok well rape is rarely about sex anyway, its a power thing.

I think men have been given a bad deal in the first place. Society as a whole ozzes sex sex sex, instead of love, trust, friendship first. Do fathers tell their sons to go out and sow your seed!? and mothers tell their daughters to keep your legs crossed? Double standards for sure.

Yes Yes Yes. I'll never forget "the talk" from my dad: "When our Vinnie (my brother, three years old at the time!!!) is your age I'll encourage him to go out and shag whoever he likes, but you and your sister are going to wait and that's final!" Whether or not men are more sexual, I would hold it as definitely true that they're encouraged to be.

[mindlife]

In answer to the question: yes.

[Rikusephirosu]

I never understood why many fathers encourage their sons to go and have sex, whether they are keeping in mind that there are many consequences. Yet, tell their daughters that they better "keep their legs shut", when they have the same amount of consequences (just about) too. I also dont understand why some parents will nag their daughters or sons about not having sex as if they should of and that they are "losers" for not doing it. :?

[Endurance]

I personally think that whilst of course there should be laws to protect children from abusers of any kind, the world now seems to be looking for abuse in the most innocent of actions. When I was a child my father bathed me. We used to play games in the bath and it was all perfectly innocent. I used to spend hours with the widowed old man upstairs. He would sit me on his knee and tell me stories and no one thought he was abusing me. I loved him and have very happy memories. I'm a supply teacher, and in many schools I am not supposed to touch children in any way whatsoever. So this means I'm not supposed to give a distressed child a hug, or comfort them physically? I can't help but feel that the overly-suspicious society we live in is causing a lot of people to avoid showing perfectly natural, normal physical affection towards children, which has got to be unhealthy. And it won't stop child abusers. They don't care about the law.

Sorry to rant, but this is something I feel strongly about.

I agree with this completely, as an Early Childhood Educator, as a mother, and even as a woman who was abused throughout her childhood and early adolecence.

Children need hugs. We must not infect them with fear - just arm them with the tools to know what feels ok and the vocabulary and concepts to express if something isn't right.

What I did with my kids (all boys) is ensure that they knew the parts of bodies that go under bathing suits are private, and also that if any touch makes you uncomfortable to tell. But I also taught them that it's natural to touch your body in any way that makes it feel good, but that masturbation is a private thing. I taught them to treat sex and love and partners and themselves with respect and care. I taught them that who you are attracted to, or love, or are not attracted to or don't love is perfectly fine.

Honestly I can't see why people get upset about homosexuality. From my point of view, it basically looks just the same as heterosexuality.

Of course, my Christian friends found it really funny that as a Jew, I couldn't see why Christians who married each other could think of it as intermarriage. It took me YEARS to figure out that most people consider Protestant and Catholic actually different RELIGIONS. In the same way I see sexual as sexual, love as love, gender as completely irrelevant.

BTW, I am a Canadian, and among the people with kids I know who split, 4 mother's have physical custody of the kids, and three fathers do. Another 6 or 7 share time fairly equally. All the non-custodial parents I know are very involved in their kids lives. Even my ex, who abused me, but never the kids (except that they knew I was very unhappy, and that Dad was mad at me a lot. That's not good either.)

Oh yeah, I think abuse (of all types) is about power and feeling weak inside. If you castrate a rapist, you get an even angrier rapist. Even without testosterone. Even without erections. (Chemical castration was common in the us in the 60s and didn't work.)

I also wanted to say that I think mental and emotional abuse cause the most pain, at least for me. It seems often that you get the whole mix though.

Endurance

[Endurance]

I personally think that whilst of course there should be laws to protect children from abusers of any kind, the world now seems to be looking for abuse in the most innocent of actions. When I was a child my father bathed me. We used to play games in the bath and it was all perfectly innocent. I used to spend hours with the widowed old man upstairs. He would sit me on his knee and tell me stories and no one thought he was abusing me. I loved him and have very happy memories. I'm a supply teacher, and in many schools I am not supposed to touch children in any way whatsoever. So this means I'm not supposed to give a distressed child a hug, or comfort them physically? I can't help but feel that the overly-suspicious society we live in is causing a lot of people to avoid showing perfectly natural, normal physical affection towards children, which has got to be unhealthy. And it won't stop child abusers. They don't care about the law.

Sorry to rant, but this is something I feel strongly about.

I agree with this completely, as an Early Childhood Educator, as a mother, and even as a woman who was abused throughout her childhood and early adolecence.

Children need hugs. We must not infect them with fear - just arm them with the tools to know what feels ok and the vocabulary and concepts to express if something isn't right.

What I did with my kids (all boys) is ensure that they knew the parts of bodies that go under bathing suits are private, and also that if any touch makes you uncomfortable to tell. But I also taught them that it's natural to touch your body in any way that makes it feel good, but that masturbation is a private thing. I taught them to treat sex and love and partners and themselves with respect and care. I taught them that who you are attracted to, or love, or are not attracted to or don't love is perfectly fine.

Honestly I can't see why people get upset about homosexuality. From my point of view, it basically looks just the same as heterosexuality.

Of course, my Christian friends found it really funny that as a Jew, I couldn't see why Christians who married each other could think of it as intermarriage. It took me YEARS to figure out that most people consider Protestant and Catholic actually different RELIGIONS. In the same way I see sexual as sexual, love as love, gender as completely irrelevant.

BTW, I am a Canadian, and among the people with kids I know who split, 4 mother's have physical custody of the kids, and three fathers do. Another 6 or 7 share time fairly equally. All the non-custodial parents I know are very involved in their kids lives. Even my ex, who abused me, but never the kids (except that they knew I was very unhappy, and that Dad was mad at me a lot. That's not good either.)

Oh yeah, I think abuse (of all types) is about power and feeling weak inside. If you castrate a rapist, you get an even angrier rapist. Even without testosterone. Even without erections. (Chemical castration was common in the us in the 60s and didn't work.)

I also wanted to say that I think mental and emotional abuse cause the most pain, at least for me. It seems often that you get the whole mix though.

Endurance

[lux]

Oh,it is very interesting what you said about rapists,because in my country, many people is thinking to use the chemist castration for rapists,in fact, next saturday a terrible rapist will be in freedon after 16 years in prison to rape 15 women,against the psichologist's opinion,they advice that this man will try to rape again in the moment that he is free,but the judge thinks that he is in his right.He was 16 years in prison,now he will be free next saturday,some lawyers think that the chemical castration will be a good idea for this type of criminals,but you told that it isn't useful, in this case,what is the solution?.In my country doesn't exists life enprisonment,and prisoners can get freedom easy,for example, having a good behaviour during his staying in prison.

[Endurance]

I think with violent habitual criminals, in countries (like Canada) without a death penelty, all you can do is keep very good track of where they are, and alert the neighborhood, city, and especially schools.

It's not much of a solution. Life should mean life IMHO.

Endurance

[lux]

Yes,I suposse that it would be a "solution",but in my country this solution would go against their human rights,sadly,the spanish law protects more criminal's human rights than victim's human rights. :roll:

[jay williams]

There are several measures used in the USA for sex offenders. Everyone agrees that society needs to protect itself against sex offenders (although maddeningly it seems like law enforcement and society focuses mostly on drug offenses---and even keeps drug offenders locked up longer than thieves, thugs and bullies).

But for sex offenders, it does seem like new measures are being tried all the time.

Castration (chemical or surgical) is indeed being used in parts of the USA, so far as I know. Yes, there is controversy about it, but the leading experts claim that castration is successful for some, and not so sucessful for others.

It depends on the category of the offender. For example "rapists", such as those who attack adult women, are considered to be predators who want to express anger and violence against victims. As such, experts mostly claim that castration is not considered to be real effective, saying that rape is an act of violence more than an act of sex. In my mind, rapists should be locked up until they can no longer commit rape.

On the other hand, castration is claimed to be HIGHLY effective against child molesters. I think that virtually everybody considers child molesters to be among the most appalling form of sex offender on earth.

In the USA, convicted sex offenders of every kind are required to register with local law enforcement agencies, and to report where they live, work, etc. Moreover, lists are published so you can know if there are sexual predators in the community, at work and in the neighborhood.

Chemical castration is an anti-androgen drug. When properly administered, it is said to eliminate sexual arousal for males---no desire and no ability for erection. Periodic mandatory injections can assure that the predator takes the drug. The drug can be administered for life if necessary. It is considered to be as effective as complete removal of the testicles---and that is an option too if a male would elect to have that done in lieu of repeated drug injections for life. For those who find children sexually appealing, and who get turned on by touching children, castration is considered highly effective because it eliminates any physical sex responses for them.

[Endurance]

Interesting points Jay.

I am certainly for anything that deters child molesters. I do hope that is in addition to jail time, not just in instead of jail time.

One of the problems with sentencing for sex offenders has traditionally been draconian penalties (ie. the death penalty) being enforced in a totally biased way.

Two rapists, one white one black. (US)

Two child molesters. One white, one aboriginal. (Canada)

Do you think they get the same sentence? History would argue against it.

Juries only seem to like to apply heavy penalties when the person looks like "garbage" to them. Or they think "their" women (and by extension - themselves) are threatened.

Or how about men like my ex who believe that permenant consent for ANYTHING at any time is given at the time of the vows.

We're still having trouble accepting that spousal rape is even possible!

Basically, this is all f*cked up. I wish there was an easy answer. It makes me so so angry.

Endurance

[cdraines1959]

welcome to the 21st century. and don't beleive everything you read. i say that because of the stereotypical description of men and their wants and needs.

[Guest Heligan]

Why should a man be anymore sexual than a female. I have heard just as many females talk about wanting a baby, needing a baby, just gotta have a baby, as I have males talking about sexing this woman or that woman.

I never thought about it that way but I guess there is nothing MORE sexual than childbirth. Lizzie

What?

I dont see why wanting a child of your own has anything to do with being sexual at all!

It may have a hormonal source, but I'm not even sure if that is the whole story. For women I think there is a gender difference in that there is definately a panic generated by the tic toc of the biological clock- 'do it now or regret it for the rest of your life!' type thing.

Frankly I think wanting a child is about a nurturing need that has nothing to do with sexuality and not necessarily anything to do with gender....apart from practical time management issues.[/b]

[Guest Heligan]

Here's a slightly graphic and less than legal experiement you can do! Well, you can do this, but I wouldn't recommend it, as you'd get yourself rather arrested.

Go into a hospital and find some dude who is in a coma. Depant him and play with his penis for a bit. It'll become erect.

Dare I ask how you know this?

It was mentioned by my psyc professor

A man doesnt even have to be alive in order for him to ejaculate with certain types of stimulation.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthumous_sperm_retrieval

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroejaculation

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...756C0A961958260

But I think we might be going a bit off topic with that as iot doesnt tell us anything about the sexualness of men... either sterotypical or actual.

I do have to say though when I was sexually active I didnt notice any huge discrepancy in desire for sexual activity between myself and any of the men I have had relationships with.

Whether they are on a erection hair trigger and think about sex more is a slightly different question I suppose. If you believe what some people say men think about sex thousands of times a day.

[BaronTheCat]

First of all, I think that it is harder for men to identify as asexual because so much emphasis is placed on a man's identity as a sexual being. For someone who is at least indifferent and doesn't mind faking it, a man might just go on acting sexual for a longer time than a similar female would, just to keep up manly appearances.

I know this is an old post, but I must say that I have experienced the contrary. It was harder for me to be asexual when I was a girl. Reasons:

1) The female body is more associated with sex than the male body (breasts, butt, legs...) and there's a greater pressure upon women to look sexy, and to want to look sexy, and women are associated with sex even if they don't want it.

2) There's a greater pressure upon women to have a relationship because society believes women are more emotional than men. People also expect that all women want to have babies. The intellectual male loner is a stereotype which is respected, but the intellectual female loner just "hasn't met the right guy yet", and also, she's "suppressing her female instincts".

3) When I was a girl and said I didn't want sex, people thought I was a)afraid of it, and B)a mentally disturbed weirdo. When I say I'm asexual now, people react with surprise and find it a bit hard to believe, but they accept it.

[jcortese]

When I was a girl and said I didn't want sex, people thought I was a)afraid of it, and B)a mentally disturbed weirdo. When I say I'm asexual now, people react with surprise and find it a bit hard to believe, but they accept it.

This seems to be typical of almost anything a woman says in a lot of ways. If a man says something that seems counterintuitive, they give him the benefit of the doubt and think to themselves, "Well, maybe he has some deeper understanding that is eluding me."

When a woman says something that seems counterintuitive, it's because we lack understanding. We're too dumb to know why we're wrong, whereas a man is assumed to be smart enough to have a better idea. I've had the same reaction when talking about mathematics much less sex. I am assumed to lack basic understanding, while they are assumed to have deeper understanding. (This assumption continues even after I've been proven correct.)

[Sally]

Ah yes. I had a discussion today with a longtime male friend; it was on a topic that I know quite a bit about and he knows nothing. I outlined some stuff I just learned and filled in the background so he had a rounded picture. He listened carefully and then said flatly, "Well, I don't know anything about that." That's not the first time this has happened. The first time I said to him, "Well, you do now, because I just TOLD you." That didn't get across. So today I just said nothing. I don't give up, but I just wonder why...but possibly there's some hard-wiring/hormone thing going on where women just aren't seen as authorities on anything.

[Guest Fosco]

Well,I think that it is strange meeting asexual men,I mean,men are more sexual than women,because of their phisical constitution,mentality,and biology,men,generally think more in sex than women,they masturbate more,and when they see atractive women,they think.....in bed..well,I find strange that there are asexual men,I suposse that they usually are more asexual women than men,because in general,it can be exceptions,but I say, in general women are less sexual than men,when a woman meet a men she generally seeks love,and a man generally seeks sex,so,it is difficult to me to know that can exists asexual men,when men are so sexual,and more young asexual men,when sexual hormons are very strong,yes,I hardly can believe it!!!!. :roll:

I think that's a very sexist view, and if a man said something similar about women, there would be uproar! You obviously haven't ever met someone with a decent amount of Etiquette. I know many males who seek love more than sex, and I know many females who seek sex over love.

I'm not going to add any more to this post, as I strongly disagree, and I'm going to say something that I won't regret. I was taught manners and taught to respect other people, and I find the above statement incredibly distasteful, as I'm a young asexual male.

[Lordbob]

16 year old male.

[A-listed]

The more ignorant comments about asexuality I see, the more I feel that we should become militant like our gay and lesbian comrades a generation back. We need to crush heteronormative thinking that puts men into one rigid box and women into another. And we're not going to succeed if we stay in the closet.

But just going out into the streets and telling people "Hi, my name is X and I'm asexual" isn't going to work. We need a united movement.

Oh, and for the record, I'm a middle-aged male asexual virgin who has never once wanted to have sex with a woman, a man, or a Cocker Spaniel.

[chatha]

well... hmm... I'm a man, and I'm asexual. My take on it is, men DO have a STRONGER sex drive, I think... but that doesn't equal Enjoying sex more. Not that i'd know for sure. I'm a virgin and OLD to be that too. I think a lot of men talk about sex in the locker room and such, but I'd bet we'd all be very surpised to know how many men do not fit the stereotypical mold. There's such a strong need and pressure for men to conform to that image that most won't admit to being asexual, or gay, or bi, or trans, or being interested in sheep/goats or space aliens, etc... There's a fear of being different, a fear of being considered freakish, a fear of being beaten to a pulp by a posse of rednecks.

[chatha]

The more ignorant comments about asexuality I see, the more I feel that we should become militant like our gay and lesbian comrades a generation back. We need to crush heteronormative thinking that puts men into one rigid box and women into another. And we're not going to succeed if we stay in the closet.

But just going out into the streets and telling people "Hi, my name is X and I'm asexual" isn't going to work. We need a united movement.

Oh, and for the record, I'm a middle-aged male asexual virgin who has never once wanted to have sex with a woman, a man, or a Cocker Spaniel.

Glad to know that I'm not the only middle-aged asexual man out there. That's comforting. But somehow, being militant and asexual don't seem to go together... maybe it's just me... I can see us having parades, marches on Washington, etc, all chanting in unison, "We don't want sex! We don't want sex!" ...and the world just blinks and says, "ooooookkkkkkkkkkkk..... then, um, don't have any, k?"

But I DO agree with you. We must educate folks. Can we start with the South? Better use simple pictures and even simpler words as reading (heck, education in general) does not seem popular here. I know, I've lived here all my days.

[thylacine]

"Marches on Washington, etc, all chanting in unison, "We don't want sex! We don't want sex!" I dunno. I think that sounds like a good idea. Everyone can get into my car, I'll drive us all down to Washington, D.C. Bring your own signs.

[chatha]

a 16 year old who's asexual... ummmm......

Well, I didn't even start puberty until about 15... how to understand this.... hmmm.... I'd have to say I wasn't asexual so much as pre-sexual at that age, if that makes any sense, but they say kids are hitting puberty much earlier these days... as if I'd know or care.

[chatha]

Thy,

Reckon we'd make any difference? Never know if we never try, right?

Well... ok. I'm game. Let's go. :D

AVEN ON THE MOVE! :aven:

[Sally]

Gadsden-dude: Is that a cheese grater attached in place of a roll of toilet paper? Yeeeeowwww! Tell me it isn't. :o

[chatha]

Gadsden-dude: Is that a cheese grater attached in place of a roll of toilet paper? Yeeeeowwww! Tell me it isn't. :o

Yeah, it is. Cuz I tend to rub people the wrong way ... hehehe

also have seen a variation on this: sand paper, but I think the grater is far better.

[AVENCakes]

Well,I think that it is strange meeting asexual men,I mean,men are more sexual than women,because of their phisical constitution,mentality,and biology,men,generally think more in sex than women,they masturbate more,and when they see atractive women,they think.....in bed..well,I find strange that there are asexual men,I suposse that they usually are more asexual women than men,because in general,it can be exceptions,but I say, in general women are less sexual than men,when a woman meet a men she generally seeks love,and a man generally seeks sex,so,it is difficult to me to know that can exists asexual men,when men are so sexual,and more young asexual men,when sexual hormons are very strong,yes,I hardly can believe it!!!!. :roll:

Women were most often burned as witches because they were seen as more sexual than men back then. The guy who wrote 'The Witches' Hammer' or whatever actually said that it was because women were much less able to control their physical lusts and such. (because a big part of being a witch, apparently, was giant orgies with demons. My class is pretty sure this was just an excuse to draw porn)

Overall, I thought all women were asexual for awhile because of that, just figured my asexuality was because I was a girl. I mean, in the media it's almost always the guy chasing the girl, the girls tend to play hard to get and such. But now that I actually look into it, girls can be as sex-fiendish as men, it's just less socially acceptable so they tend to squelch it just so they don't get labeled sluts. At the same time, it's more socially acceptable for a guy to be one so they might act like it even when they aren't just so they don't get ridiculed/called gay/whatever.

[A-listed]

It's not hard to see that men's supposedly superior sex drive is a social construction rooted in patriarchy. A man with a powerful libido is praised as a stud; a woman with a powerful libido is condemned as a slut. That social pressure leads men to try to live up to the culturally imposed virile standard and leads women to confine their sexuality to socially acceptable limits. The result is presented as something natural and innate when in fact it's a patriarchal attempt to control women.