While we are on the subject of Comprimise....

[Kawaii_Neko]

Soylent Green is People!

PEOPLE!!

:lol:

Excellent analogies all around. I think that it's always going to be hard for people to understand exactly how someone of a different orientation is feeling. It's a little too alien (as my husband put it). But at least the analogies can give us a peek into each others heads.

[scamper]

Well, you aren't going to die from lack of sex, so I propose we amend your food example to suggest that asking a sexual to live without sex is like asking a person to get all their nutrition by drinking a tasteless nutrition drink. They will live, but it takes a lot of the joy out of it. If you like to eat, of course.

Fair point. I love to eat... and somehow, i'd forgotten that we have to do it to live, when writing my post above.

Whoops.

[E.winEla]

I mean, think how it would feel if you were in a relationship where a big part of your personality was just not really understood or accepted. Maybe you really like to have deep philosophical discussions, and you were trying to stay in a relationship with someone who really can't stand talking about anything more challenging than the weather or what Joe Jones the neighbor did yesterday. That huge need - not just to talk, but to share that part of your life and personality - would go completely unfulfilled. Worse, if your partner tried to compromise and just listen to you talk, it might cause them to feel insecure, or bored, or anxious, or just terrible in general. And it wouldn't be great for you, because you'd want them to contribute to the conversation, not just listen. But you can't stop wanting it, can you?

I am actually a stickler for philosophical discussion and would want to be having those types of discussion with anyone whom I was "in love" with. But I realize that most people might be bored by that, and wouldn't feel that they have much to contribute.

I think in situations like the relationship here, the two most important things are understanding and acceptance.

First, both sides will have to understand where the other side is coming from, and I think that Nine breaker and Neko are beginning to come to this understanding of each other's fear, concerns, and desires.

The problem is the acceptance, because as human beings we have the natural tendency to look out for what we perceive to be our own personal goals or needs. In Nine's case this includes the expression of love through sexual intimacy...in Neko's case this does not.

But once they can accept that their personal needs and goals are somewhat conflicting, I believe that they can eventually reach what I like to call the "plateau of acceptance". If they want their relationship there really is no choice but to reach this plateau.

For Nine, this means accepting the fact that Neko does not find a natural joy in having sex, but that she's at least willing to participate in it as her way of showing solidarity with him and his personal needs. Nine should recognize this compromise as a very profound way of expressing love, because she could just as easily offer no physical intimacy..but she leaves her comfort zone to make things easier for Nine.

For Neko, this means accepting the fact that Nine will continue to want some form of sexual intimacy in order to express his love for her, and that he wishes she could derive the same joy from having sex. Neko should recognize this as him just wanting to be able to share his personal joy with her, which generally speaking is a very agreeable thing to want in a relationship.

There is nothing else to it. After a while, acceptance will just have to replace the discomfort caused by the thought of Neko not enjoying sex or by the thought of Nine feeling as if he were forcing an obligatory chore onto Neko. I think just accepting the situation and continuing on as you are might be the only feasible way. You just have to keep compromising. Don't worry about it, just do it. Because it's the only way.

The only other solution to make both of you happy is to not have the relationship at all...and since that wouldn't actually make either of you happy..then you have to continue to compromise.

Relationships like these are by default bound to be difficult, but that is sometihng that you must agree to accept and work around when you decided to enter into a sexual/aseuxal relationship. And until someone does some in-depth analysis of sexual/asexual relations, I doubt we will ever have a distinct answer for this that completely pleases both parties. But for the time being, I think all you can do is accept and carry on, and maintain a mutual understanding that you are both wanting to stay in this for the long run..and in order to do so, it must be give and take.

[La_Gioconda]

Amazing thread, I absolutely love it! :D

Just wanted to add a few things:

'my relationship has its foundations in sex. No sex? The house falls down.'

I'm asexual but the way I see it sex doesn't have to be the foundation of a relationship to make it fall apart. In the 'house-relationship' metaphor sex can be the roof, walls or floor. A house without one of these things is inhabitable and so is a relationship without sex, even though it is not built on it (I hope I made myself clear enough).

I also wanted to explain what having sex meant for me, maybe it will help sexuals understand better what it is like for the asexual. I already wrote it in some different thread so I will just repeat myself: "I couldn't understand why my ex wanted to have sex with me, it was a horrible experience. I felt used and abused. Every time we had sex (because yes, I decided to compromise for his sake) I wanted to scream "I'm here!! Why are treating me in this way? I'm a person, I have a brain, thoughts and feelings, why are you treating me like a chunk of meat? I'm not a plaything, not a inflateable doll, not just a body, I'm a PERSON!". Every intercourse we had took away some of the connection that had been between us until there was absolutely nothing left (at least from my point of view). Finally I ended this relationship (or rather run away from it) but it left me bitter and angry. For some time I tended to view all men as sex crazed beasts, even though on the intelectual level I knew it is not true but I just couldn't help feeling this way. Aven helped me understand where I come from. I understood that it wasn't only me that was sufferin in this relationship, also his needs weren't met (we were having sex once every 2-3 weeks, much too rarely for him). I also understood that what I see as torture, for most people is a basic need."

If there is one thing common to many asexuals it is this: for sexuals sex creates intimacy, for asexuals sex compromises intimacy.

Nine_breaker and Kawaii_Neko I really hope you can find a solution. Good luck!

[Squished]

Firstly I agree, I think this is a truly awesome thread!! Spend the last hour or so reading though it all carefully....yes... I know... I'm a very slow reader... :roll:

Quoting M51 (sorry for some reason the auto quote thing didn't work and I suck at using HTML so wasn't sure how to fix it... :oops:

Well, you aren't going to die from lack of sex, so I propose we amend your food example to suggest that asking a sexual to live without sex is like asking a person to get all their nutrition by drinking a tasteless nutrition drink. They will live, but it takes a lot of the joy out of it. If you like to eat, of course.

Yes!!! I can totally identify with that!!!

I have Crohn's disease... guessing you’re probably not heard of it.. But on several occasions I've had to go for months living on only Nutrient drinks which taste horrible!!

So I can definitely relate to that analogy.. I was so depressed after only a week of liquid diet not being able to eat the foods I loved.. unbearable really... so I think tats probably a really a good analogy to make.

If you're someone who loves food is a horrible prospect having to live without the delicious taste of jacket potato with cheese, a bowl of spaghetti Balinese, a juicy piece of fruit or the sweet wonders of chocolate.... mmm *licks lips* …. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it!! So if sexual desire is anything like that.. then I can easily imagine how difficult it can be for them living without it for long.

This analogy also works great for the spectrum of sexuality and sexual desire we see too! ... Some people may not be bothered about taste so living on nutrient drinks wouldn't bother them... some would be ok without many types of food if they were allowed to still have a few things that they liked. And some may even dislike many types of food and actually prefer the nutrient drink...I can't imagine it.. but anything’s possible.. :roll: .

Edit: Just thought of an extension to this...

Say you're a brilliant cook and there's all number of amazing meals you can cook... but you're partner won't try anything and has no desire to eat your food.. but instead prefers a nutrient drink? You want to express your love for your partner and show them how special they are to you by preparing them a delicious meal... but they're not interested. This dis-heartens you because you love to cook... but you feel your talents are going to waste and are not appreciated.

Ok... I know this not the most accurate analogy to explain sex... but looking at it in this way helps me, verging on the asexual side, better understand the sexual's point of view.

But I tend towards the asexual side of sexuality so I can see things from their view very well too. In fact it can be very hard for me to understand how sexual people view sex... as its completely unimportant to me.. or worse actually undesirable.….

My ex bf waited patiently for me to have sex with him for some time.. and I had some idea that it was very important to him.. as he was very caring in many ways… and he did wait for several months… but the pain of not being able to express his love for me in a physical way…. Probably became too much so he dumped me…. :(

I admit.. its very hard to see how for him he had to do that…. Because I just couldn’t understand why sex was so important to him.. I really loved him and he seemed to really care about me and we got on really well together so I thought that would be enough…. But it wasn’t. :(

Compromise in such a situation must be incredible hard for both of you and I really empathise with you. I’m only started to realise that one day, its likely I too, will have to compromise order to get the loving relationship I need, or live alone…. Not the happiest of choices… but that’s an unfortunate fact of life… you have to make decisions..

You have to make compromises with almost everything in some way or another.. and its not easy but in the end its worth making the compromises that will give you the most happiness in the long run… Sorry I’m rambling on like a crazy one here…:oops: I hope some of what I say has some shred of meaning in there somewhere. :roll:

I wish I could give you some good advice on how to keep things together..... but seems many people on here have already offered far better advice then I could.

I really hope things work out for you!!

The only thing I would say... is rebel against your natural desires if that’s what you need to do to get to a happy relationship....What I mean by this is from the asexual side.. you may have to fight you're dislike of sex and struggle with your brain cells to help you find a way to deal with it..... and from the sexual side fight your in built perception of sex and intimacy… to try and find a way to reduce your need for sex and the importance it has in your life….

It won't be easy for either side.. far from it probably... but if you both work to move to the "plateau of acceptance" as E.winEla puts it. (great phrase E.winEla!!... sorry I pinched it…. but I don't think I can find a better term then that!)

Remember... Never Give Up!! Never Surrender!! =)

PS- My apologies for the mammoth long post... got a little carried away I think... :roll:

[funaladanaly]

My boyfriend and I confronted the same situation. He believes that physical intimacy and love are very strongly connected - you can't have one without the other. Going without is very hard for him, and he feels a sense of rejection since he pits the two together (hence if I reject his physical approaches, it equates to me rejecting his love).

I'm the opposite. I equate a strong emotional bond with being able to just sit in the same room in contentment, knowing that he is by my side - but not touching me. I'm that type of asexual who hates physical contact.

I tried to get over this. Tried it for a year. Didn't work. We thought about the compromise you spoke of.

In the end we realized the relationship wouldn't work. It would always be too much for me and not enough for him. He wouldn't be happy doing the act because I'm not happy. I wouldn't be happy because I know he's not happy.

So honestly, there isn't a great solution for you, at least from my end. I don't think sexuals and asexuals should get married unless the asexual is really okay with having sex.

[Chiaroscuro]

Good post, Squished. I enjoyed its length, no problem there :)

As Funaladanaly suggests, there's no one answer for bridging the A/S divide.. the variety of Asexuality responses are too, well, varied, for a one-size-fits-all solution. I wrote somewhere else that, in my sixteen years of marriage, this is the first and only conflict that has resisted any form of compromise. I think it's because it touches something so deep that it's outside of our intellectual control. If a mildly-asexual partner hooks up with a mildly-sexual partner, then compromise is probably very possible and satisfying. When either partner diverges from the "mild" end of the scale though, it can become impossible to find common ground without that partner going through some form of emotional distress. In my experience, you can only feel that kind of distress for so long. Even in service of that highest good, love. As my wife and I say to one another "you can only be heroic for so long."

-Chiaroscuro

[KSpaz]

Are there any success stories out there? Someone who is in a A and S relationship and you've made it work? Tell us how! :cry:

Hi Kawaii -

I'm an asexual in a sexual relationship, and it is working out great.

My boyfriend of the past 1 1/2 years is sexual. He would really understand the views of your husband, I feel.

I have two advantages though, that many asexuals do not:

1. My boyfriend was one of my best friends prior to us becoming an "item", and he knew I was asexual for a full year before we started dating. He chose to continue to pursue the relationship, even without the promise of sex. Idealistic? Probably. Realistic? No. But the point is, I was lucky to find someone like him.

2. I consider myself "Gray-A". I can enjoy many physical things. Sometimes even sex. Now, I don't enjoy these things to the degree of a sexual person, and I don't really seek them out, but I can enjoy things. I'll explain how below.

My boyfriend knows I try hard to make our compromises work, so he is patient with me when I don't feel like doing anything more than cuddles and kisses (which is 95% of the time ).

We started having sex a bit less than a year ago. It was strange, but not as weird as I thought it would be.

I found that knowing he enjoyed it made me enjoy things. I believe I have the wiring your husband has for "liking the other person to feel the emotional connection during sex", even when I don't always feel it (as your wiring is).

I've pushed myself very hard to concentrate on how much love my boyfriend shows to me in his physical way. And I've learned that I feel a connection now. I'm pleased to make him happy. And he's happy knowing I'm enjoying things...even though he does not understand exactly how.

Everyone here has already mentioned that it boils down to compromise. I participate in physical acts when I don't really feel like it, and he doesn't participate in acts when he feels like participating. We both make sacrifices.

An asexual person can quickly start feeling as if they are being used for some physical desire. I've learned to never let myself fall into that idea, because it is too painful, and it is not true (for me and my boyfriend, at least).

My boyfriend wants sex because he loves me. Keeping that in mind makes everything much easier.

He has to remember that my not wanting sex does not mean I don't love him, and he's had to learn to find my love in other areas of our relationship. I've learned to find his love in the physical realm.

With practice, I feel love can express itself enough for two people to overcome this barrier. It takes lots of concentration. A trick I learned, is to look at his face during sex. Look at his eyes and see how much love he has at that moment inside him. I'm such a sucker for my boyfriend, that when I see his eyes sparkle like that, I feel so in love that I realize that this sex stuff is actually sometimes a good idea. Though...I'll let him stick to initiating it.

I agree with a couple other posts that say if two people are really really far apart on the spectrum (very A or very sexual), that I don't think a relationship will end up working. But for those that fall closer to the middle of our AVEN triangle...well, with effort and patience, both sides can be trained not just to tolerate, but to sometimes even be very satisfied with this tricky part of a relationship.

Where there is love, there is hope. Best of luck to both of you.

[nzraven]

Wow I have loved this thread too...fantastic...lots of love!!!

[John Bayko]

One of the defining traits in my asexualisness (I'm not sure that's a word...) is the fact that I really don't like to look or touch sexual organs of either sex. [...] If I have to look or touch, then my enjoyment levels drop dramatically. I am, and have been, trying to aquiese to his desire for me to enjoy sex with him. I'm not sure what else to do on that front.

Any suggestions?

Blindfold?

Or is the idea of not seeing what's going at all on just scary?

Would a little bit of scary be a bit thrilling? Would something thrilling be enough of a distraction from sex that you could enjoy it?

Just thinking outloud randomly, don't mind me.