Insecurities for Allo’s partnered with an Ace

[Ceebs]

Have fun!  

[Ceebs]

Oh, belated comment on this...

 

3 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Too funny!

Tele once accidentally typed 'to funny' instead of 'too funny' in a message to his sister. Neither she nor I will let him live it down. I often reply 'to funny' to stuff he says and his response is generally an affectionate 'fuck off'. 
 

Loving insults are the best. 

[Windmills of My Mind]

I feel like a broken record playing over and over again, but this thread has it all. Serious discussion and new insights for me (thank you @Astutusdomina). And the sheer joy of you regulars seeming to know each other so well and having fun, bringing up good memories and sharing enjoyment in what you are doing today. I can imagine us all being at some lakeside cabin having a great weekend out. Grab yourself a beer from the fridge, there's plenty. Not any move on any of you, just great fun. Nowhere near reality as I have no idea where any of you are but the forum seems mostly US based, perhaps some in Canada. I'm on different continent altogether so realistically speaking I will most probably never get to see any of you in real life. It somehow feels a bit like, I don't know, not exactly family, but there is some aspect in our lives that we share here and cannot share with the vast majority of people we know in our day to day life. From that point of view I feel some family like connection to some of you people, complete strangers but somehow familiar and close even though far away. At least, that is how it is to me.

 

On 3/13/2022 at 1:57 AM, MyWifeIsAce said:

What special ways do you and your partner address insecurities and stay deeply connected? What habits do you practice to keep, grow, and deepen your relationship together? 

I am trying very hard to talk. To communicate. To share my thoughts, the way I feel about things, to elaborate on where it hurts. Then again so far my partner has not been willing (or able) to fully share her thoughts, her opinion, her take on how we relate on the sexual side of our relationship, how she really feels about that. This hurts me, as I feel like I have been waiting in vain for so long for things to improve. They did not. At least not substantially and not permanently. I understand this rationally, in the sense that I feel she is afraid of losing me altogether if she admits to feeling no physical attraction. Not of the sexual kind that is - she is absolutely very romantic, loves to cuddle and be close in that sense, as long as it does not evolve into anything sexual. I see she is trying to find this side of herself, but I do suspect the motivation for this is more an attempt to meet my needs rather than her own. For me, at this stage this does not help to feel deeply connected, as there is a part of this that she is currently not willing to come clean with me. This creates distance for me where at this stage I feel a need to be open in order to come closer. It impedes the deep connection that I feel we need to stay together.

 

In other words, here's how it works for me. If there is a special way to address insecurities and stay deeply connected, to me it is to create and maintain the opportunity to be completely open, fair and honest, both ways. Holding back drives us apart.

 

I find the "create" bit is the first step, I have only recently made this one so most people in this thread are miles ahead of me. I have started to see though that it takes more than just the first step that creates opportunity for communication. It takes a continued effort from both partners to maintain. To keep the communication going, to keep moving forward. Holding back thoughts, feelings, or lack thereof at a point in your relationship where it could be make or break for me is a push towards the break. Reminder for myself to keep the topic alive in our regular talks. We try to make regular long walks together, just the two of us. There is always the tendency to move onto lighter topics of conversation. Family, work, friends, whatever. It takes conscious effort and willingness to keep working on the special ways of staying really connected. It does not come naturally to me. Not yet at least. The awareness that this topic deserves (or I should rather say requires) constant deliberate work is somewhat new to me, I do think it is here to stay. It is important to me, to my well being. So it deserves my time and attention. If we want to stay deeply connected as a couple.

 

 

 

I am with ceebs on the loving insults. No kidding. A shared sense of humor helps. Twisted humor is even better.

[Ceebs]

37 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

Grab yourself a beer from the fridge, there's plenty.

Done that already today, yep.  A beer or three... 

 

37 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

perhaps some in Canada

I think I'm the lone Canadian frequenter of this thread... likely SPFA in general as well, I'm not sure. I think it's mostly Americans? Telecaster's a Brit, but only here these days via whatever I pass along thanks to his silly ban stuff. Aaaanyway...

 

Bring on the 'aboot' and 'eh' jokes? 🇨🇦😂

 

37 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

It somehow feels a bit like, I don't know, not exactly family, but there is some aspect in our lives that we share here and cannot share with the vast majority of people we know in our day to day life. From that point of view I feel some family like connection to some of you people, complete strangers but somehow familiar and close even though far away. At least, that is how it is to me.

Oh absolutely yeah, and I'm glad you have that feeling. I've been on AVEN for... 18 years, jeez... and it's absolutely that way for me as well. People come and go. The regulars feel like an odd little family (a good sort of odd!). Sometimes you're lucky and make some truly great friends... or fall in lurrrvvvvv. This place has absolutely changed my life in massive ways.

 

37 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

Reminder for myself to keep the topic alive in our regular talks.

Yeah that's definitely important. Not everyone in a mixed relationship ends up staying together, and of course it's important to talk regardless of where things end up, but definitely if you're trying to navigate the path of staying together and remaining connected, it's vital. (Obviously easier said than done.)

 

Have you and your wife done any couple's therapy stuff together? Not that that's a sure-fire answer of course, just wondering.

 

37 minutes ago, Windmills of My Mind said:

I am with ceebs on the loving insults. No kidding. A shared sense of humor helps. Twisted humor is even better.

100% yes. Shared sense of humour alone couldn't have kept my marriage intact because it just wasn't the right match in many ways (and there was only partial overlap there humour-wise anyway), and at some point I realised it played literally no role whatsoever in the messy relationship I had after that (which was actually quite a sad and empty realisation, tbh). And so when you find someone where you just effortlessly make each other laugh regularly, it's a wonderful thing. I've realised it's absolutely vital for me. Also a maaaaaassive turn-on hahaha. Dark humour and wit are a fast route to sparking sexual interest in someone for me. Certainly worked in Tele's favour over the course of several years on here... many posts and PMs... emails, Skype chats, phone calls... and now here we are lol.

 

Anyway. I'm glad you managed to find this little corner of the internet and you're getting something out of it that hopefully makes you feel less alone.

[Windmills of My Mind]

 

16 minutes ago, Ceebs said:

I think I'm the lone Canadian frequenter of this thread... likely SPFA in general as well, I'm not sure. I think it's mostly Americans? 

Yes I had noticed some Canadian references somewhere, did not know it was you. I have been to both the US and Canada, both are very far away though.

 

15 minutes ago, Ceebs said:

Oh absolutely yeah, and I'm glad you have that feeling. I've been on AVEN for... 18 years, jeez... and it's absolutely that way for me as well. People come and go. The regulars feel like an odd little family (a good sort of odd!). Sometimes you're lucky and make some truly great friends... or fall in lurrrvvvvv. This place has absolutely changed my life in massive ways.

Jeez, what has it been for me? More like 18 days! Yes, I am still partly grieving, but also very glad to have found this place. I do wish I had found this place myself 18 years ago!

 

 

19 minutes ago, Ceebs said:

Have you and your wife done any couple's therapy stuff together? Not that that's a sure-fire answer of course, just wondering.

No couples therapy stuff together, at this stage. She is currently seeing a therapist on her own. She has been to one many years ago. Unfortunately that was not a good match. I have read it before here: be selective when choosing a therapist and don't hesitate to move on. Not all are helpful for asexuals or mixed couples. Some can actually be toxic. No shit, I mean destructively toxic. The one she sees now is great. Not sure if couple's therapy will be of help. We have done quite a bit of soul searching together already - we jokingly say by the end of our long weekend walks that we saved a lot again on therapist bills. I know where it hurts for me. I don't think I need a therapist to point that out to me. Neither do I want anyone telling me to keep hoping for improvement or just accept the status quo - been there, done that, got the T-shirt. And recently ditched that. For now we keep saving money by making long walks.

 

And technically speaking she is not my wife. We have been together for many years (more than half our lives, you do the math). We have a house and a family together. But we never got married, not even explicitly promised anything like life long exclusive dedication to each other. Then again, we both come from somewhat traditional families so I guess while never explicitly mentioned, we have both felt implicitly bonded. I do acknowledge to have a bit of poly in me, despite being otherwise very much vanilla. I have known this about myself for a long time but have never put it to practice. Yet. Not sure if it is going to help us stick together or rather drive us apart in the long run.

 

Yes I find much support here, not feeling alone anymore in this situation is wonderful. So is the humor and sheer fun.

[Guest]

Keep going. It's a climb and a half. I'm still climbing.

What I tell myself is do what you can for as long as you can/want to. If that's not working then I need to stop and think.

Sometimes things just come up. I'm a great believer in luck fortuna for the Romans yin and yang for the Chinese...

 

By the way I'm not in Canada or the US. I'm a world mongrel. Lived in 3 different continents. Stick with the English site as it's much more advanced than the ones in some other languages.

 

Keep thinking of ways on how to make asexuality known and feel such a hypocrite that I keep my own affairs close to my chest.

 

Yes, talking to strangers helps. Keep us posted. Take care.

[MyWifeIsNotTheAllo]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:57 PM, MyWifeIsAce said:

My wife and I have been married for almost 2 decades and although we didn't always have the language to explain her asexuality we've been experiencing the same issues for years. Recently my wife and I came into full acceptance of her Ace orientation. That process is a whole other issue to discuss but in this post I wanted to validate and touch on the deep insecurity that an Allo may feel when partnered with an Ace. 

I'm sure the insecurities the parter of an Ace experiences are different in every unmatched relationship, however if it's anything like my experience, these feelings of insecurity and sometimes even questioning trust can be crippling at times - completely unwarranted but no doubt real. I've learned, and we communicate constantly about this and my need for reassurance and staying connected. I guess there are many ways that this can be addressed, communication is likely the most important of any, although actions and other ways of addressing insecurities are very helpful.

 

I know, when I first found out my partner was Ace and multiple times prior to this understanding, I would go crazy trying to figure out what was missing or what other experiences she might be having that were more important than the one we were sharing. As an Allo partnered to an Ace, I felt and often still question if everyone else is somehow equal or maybe even more important than I am to my Ace partner, and from personal experience that type of thinking can lead to some pretty detrimental thoughts and potential actions. 

 

If you are matched with an Ace, or an Allo with a partner of different orientation, I would just recommend to both of you that recognizing and helping these feelings are helpful, often these feelings are not justified but they are real and are part of the Allo's (at times crushing) reality.

 

Finally to all the Ace partners of Allos, who are out there working hard to keep our unwarranted insecurities in check, thank you for continuing to work hard to make these relationships function, grow, and be some of the craziest, fullest, and deeply loving relationships possible. 

 

What special ways do you and your partner address insecurities and stay deeply connected? What habits do you practice to keep, grow, and deepen your relationship together? 

 

Peace, love, security, and understanding for all. 

I could have written this entire post. At times I even thought that I just may have.

Umpteenth time on these forums and never felt like someone else got it like my wife and I, to a T, until now. Is there a way to follow someone on here, someone that I might be able to learn from.

 

Don’t misread me, I learn from plenty on here and have even shared thoughts, feelings, and emotions with several (from behind my screen). And am grateful. But not all at once like that, whew! I had to say something. (First time commenting on any of these forums).

 

Thank you @MyWifeIsAce

[ryn2]

17 hours ago, MyWifeIsNotTheAllo said:

Is there a way to follow someone on here

Yes, if you go to their profile you will see the option to follow them.  I am mobile-only so I can’t describe it in better detail but, if you get stuck, I’m sure someone else here can.

[Mountain House]

19 hours ago, MyWifeIsNotTheAllo said:

  

On 3/12/2022 at 5:57 PM, MyWifeIsAce said:

... our unwarranted insecurities ...

 

Thanks @MyWifeIsNotTheAllo. It's been a while since I read the OP and in rereading I came across this assertion of @MyWifeIsAce's.

 

I'm not sure the term "unwarranted" is warranted in this context. Having been exposed directly with the baggage I seem to have collected over the years due my mismatched sexuality in my marriage I am more inclined to consider these insecurities a development of psychological trauma. Think about the phrases we use; "What am I doing wrong?", "Is my partner not attracted to me?", "Why am I being rejected?". If we were to use a similar phraseology when describing a parent child relationship we would certainly consider it trauma.

 

I think these insecurities are warranted and I think it should be talked about.

 

Discussion - go.

 

Oh, and I see what you did with your name there. Nice tip of the hat. 👍

[Traveler40]

14 hours ago, Mountain House said:

I'm not sure the term "unwarranted" is warranted in this context. Having been exposed directly with the baggage I seem to have collected over the years due my mismatched sexuality in my marriage I am more inclined to consider these insecurities a development of psychological trauma. Think about the phrases we use; "What am I doing wrong?", "Is my partner not attracted to me?", "Why am I being rejected?". If we were to use a similar phraseology when describing a parent child relationship we would certainly consider it trauma.

 

I think these insecurities are warranted and I think it should be talked about.

Totally agree. The trauma created for the sexual inside of these relationships is real and warranted. It isn’t intentional, but is definitely a result of the continual and repeated rejection on a base level. From the sexual point of view, it feels very much like abject neglect. 
 

I like your parent/child analogy as it fits. Sure, adults have the option to leave and ability to communicate deeply unlike children many times. However, the “all else is good and our lives are otherwise great” wins out as we rationalize, wait and hope. 
 

One thing not touched on much in these forums is moving on sexually and how some of that trauma manifests itself in new relationships. The baggage is both real and enduring. For me it’s like whack-a-mole: When I think it’s finally gone, up it pops and rears it’s ugly head. Frankly, I view it a bit like PTSD.

 

In my case, it’s been compounded by the break my lover and I had a few years back. That time (more sexual rejection) did a massive head job on me. While I understood it from a glance, I felt devastated in ways we’re still dealing with. It’s changed how we have sex: I need to not be in the position of initiation. While it took some time for me to recognize and understand that, it seems to work well for us. 
 

For a type A person who is used to initiating most everything, that’s a big change. It feels safe, and I trust him to take the reins sexually. I believe it’s born from the need to know I’m truly wanted in all ways which is a direct result of the neglect suffered in my mixed marriage.

[Traveler40]

The more I think on it, the more aligned I become with @nanogretchen4and their views. I’m not part of the recent argument in SPFA, but agree with the idea that asexuals should focus on dating within their orientation. Compelling an ace to have sex seems as awful and wrong as compelling a sexual to remain celibate. From my viewpoint it’s 6 of one half dozen of another. 
 

Why put anyone through that trauma? It’s wrong on all levels and this needs to be recognized by all sides. Fundamentally, our basic needs to feel secure and happy are at odds. 
 

i understand relationships like mine. We didn’t know, didn’t have the language or awareness and stumbled upon it decades in. However,  I have a hard time understanding the folks that know early on (or even before) and despite that forge forward into misery. 
 

Lastly, the spectrum matters. Acknowledging those sexuals with low to no libido paired with sex favorable aces working is important. I can think of at least two couples on here that match up high end ace sex favorable/ low end sexual. Their relationships sound solid and good. I do believe that’s less common, maybe akin to an open marriage like mine. Who knows, but success stories can be found in many combinations as exceptions.

 

The years of lesbians marrying heterosexual men or gay men marrying straight women are hopefully behind us here in the US. It would be great for ace awareness to grow and expand enough for recognition and acceptance by all.
 

More importantly though, folks must accept and embrace themselves. That means staying true to your needs and focusing on finding better matches and life partners within your own orientation. 

[Mountain House]

15 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Frankly, I view it a bit like PTSD.

I think this is a fair view.

 

15 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

sexual rejection

My baggage has two prongs:

 

When I learned of asexuality, one of the first waves of emotion to flood me was guilt and grief that I had been pressuring my wife to do something she really did not want to be doing. She had been telling me this for years and it doesn't matter that we were literally instructed to "just do it" and it will get better. I was devastated and, as often pops up in initial posts of sexual partners that have recently become aware, I felt like I had been raping the person I love. She reassured me that this wasn't true, but the damage had been done. This made me hyper-aware of whether she was really interested when we did have sex. I carried that hyper-awareness forward with other partners and if a sound, motion, or anything really trigger that hyper-awareness then my body was done. This kind of reaction is terrible because it can transfer to the partner you are with. I actually heard one say to me, "maybe you aren't attracted to me." Wasn't the case but doesn't that sound an awful lot like something said by sexual partners here?

 

The other is same as yours. Fear of rejection. It freezes me. So, when the sexy guy (devil or angel? 🤷‍♂️ lol) in my head tells me that all systems are go - context is good, partner is being provocative...

I can't initiate. It's frustrating. For. Everybody. ... Really. And again, this partner that went to the effort to seduce you is left wonder what they've done wrong.

 

So, those are problems, what about solutions:

 

Mindfulness/meditation helps. People who know me would be completely shocked I said that. In fact, they would probably laugh at you for asking if I would do this and tell you I would be the last person on the planet to consider it.

 

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) - I'm not really schooled on this and have just done some preliminary reading, but some parts of this approach make sense. This is basically the approach given to people that experience jealously: capture the feeling, accept that it is trying to protect you, and then assess whether there was something to be protected from. It seems like a technique a person can use for self-help. I've seen that there are apps for this but in the reading I've done the person was writing on 3x5 cards:

• Trigger
• How I responded.
• What I believe the response is protecting me from.
• Other reasons that trigger may happen and why response may be flawed.

 

Communication with partners. Absolutely. It helps that partners are aware of your struggles and protects, to a degree, transferring.

 

Scheduling sex. Yep, there was a thread on this. My wife and I tried it and it was a total failure. It put pressure on the both of us and, despite my commitment to not letting things make me feel rejected, it stoked the fear of rejection. My other partner and I did this and it worked fantastically. Even when, for reasons, the scheduled sex couldn't happen.

 

4 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Lastly, the spectrum matters.

No doubt. I suspect in the relationships that had no sex the sexual person wouldn't develop the hyper-awareness that I did.

 

4 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

I have a hard time understanding the folks that know early on (or even before) and despite that forge forward into misery.

It is sad in so many ways. They don't know what they don't know. And everyone on every side of this gets hurt.

 

Adding in Edit:

  

4 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

finding better matches and life partners within your own orientation

Orientation - sexually and/or lovestyle.

[ryn2]

One thing that could potentially make a huge difference - not just in terms of ace/sexual mismatches, but many sexual/sexual relationships as well - is more open, frank, serious discussion of all things sex.  Sweeping the topic under the rug just perpetuates all the harmful stereotypes - men need sex, women tolerate it; everyone likes penetrative sex, you just need more practice; porn is #relationshipgoals; hallmark romances are #relationshipgoals; men only like women who [x]; women only respect men who [x]; etc. - that encourage people to accept unsatisfying relationships as inevitable.

 

If more people understood that sexuality isn’t a monolith - there is lots of variation, in all sorts of ways - and that the “right way” is to find someone else whose likes and dislikes align with your own instead of forcing yourself to be someone else’s “normal,” that could go a long way towards minimizing mismatches.

 

Related, normalizing talking, openly and early, with prospective/new partners about sex - and accepting that sexual incompatibility is just as serious as kids/no kids, my religion/your religion, and money management -  could be very helpful.

[LeChat]

(Below is an official, green, mod message.)

 

Hello, everyone.

 

On behalf of Admods, here's a reminder of AVEN's TOS:

 

Quote

 

4.2 Complaints and reports from members

If members have concerns regarding matters on AVEN, they are encouraged to inform either a Moderator or Administrator of their concern. If they encounter a post or a member they think breaks the rule of the forum, they should contact an Admod or use the Report function and not engage in direct confrontation. For more on how to report an issue and how such reports are handled, please check the Thread How reports are handled. To know who is the right moderator to contact in each forum, check the Thread Who Mods What...

 

4.3 Vigilante Modding

Vigilante Modding is not allowed. Vigilante Modding is harassing, attacking, or otherwise antagonizing members you believe are acting inappropriately and/or you believe have violated the ToS. The proper procedure in such cases is to report what you know to the Admod team so proper action can be taken with all the information at hand. Please refrain from engaging in direct confrontation, or attempting to take forum justice into your own hands. If you must disagree, do so calmly and with dignity, no matter how outrageous the provocation. To know how to report a post, a member or a PM, see the Thread How to report a post, a PM or a member.

 

If you suspect that a post or a user is bending the rules of the forum then PM a moderator or an admin. Do not feed trolls, and do not flame other users no matter how badly you may think they deserve it...

 

Thanks.

 

LeChat,
Welcome Lounge and Alternate Language moderator

[Traveler40]

Hey @LeChat - is this ToS reminder on the wrong thread by any chance? I’m thinking it was meant for “Ghost Town”. 😬🤷🏻‍♀️

[LeChat]

@Traveler40 Hi. Yes. The TOS reminder is in the correct thread, due to a post that was here. I can't say more or explain because that would be breaching.

[Memento1]

Very interesting conversation in this thread!  It was a thought-provoking read. I came across a video that I thought nicely complimented Tele's thoughts on anxious attachment.  It's not universally applicable (and there are bits I cringe at), but certain parts seemed resonant with the points discussed.

 

 

[MyWifeIsAce]

On 4/29/2022 at 10:44 AM, Traveler40 said:

Lastly, the spectrum matters. Acknowledging those sexuals with low to no libido paired with sex favorable aces working is important. I can think of at least two couples on here that match up high end ace sex favorable/ low end sexual. Their relationships sound solid and good. I do believe that’s less common, maybe akin to an open marriage like mine. Who knows, but success stories can be found in many combinations as exceptions.

 

Thank you Traveler40 for the thoughtful insight. I've been 'away' a bit working on the relationship, ourselves, enjoying the self-discovery my partner has been making. She feels much more at ease with herself since the discovery. I think it's given her a chance to no longer feel like there is something wrong with her... she now understands it's just the way she is. She's likely internally been trying to "fix" or figure out herself for a very long time (since middle school really when she started to try and figure out what was wrong with her friends and why they were all starting to act weird around boys etc...). 

In my case I am a high-appetite sexual. I could honestly have sex multiple times a day. I receive so much joy in this space but my ideals and ideas on this are shifting in a health way. Sexually my goal prior would have been to give multiple orgasms to my lover and be the sexual giver in a relationship, before succumbing to my own climax... however that was not the way I acted in my relationship nor do I now, because that would not be healthy for my parter... but that is my baseline... and that was saucier than maybe it should be but I feel the need to share this. My partner is now (finally) sex positive and more active than she has ever been since being set free by the label of asexual. We continue to remain monogamous... 

 

On 4/29/2022 at 10:44 AM, Traveler40 said:

More importantly though, folks must accept and embrace themselves. That means staying true to your needs and focusing on finding better matches and life partners within your own orientation. 

My partner and I both have a different view on sex before marriage now. We also are thankful people today are much more self-aware then we were, and we are way more self-aware then our parents generation... so there is hope for the new generations to come and we look forward to being able to have very open conversations with our child about needs, desires, orientations, etc to help them find a really good match. 

 

I can't stress enough though that what other people might call a mis-matched relationship can also be akin to a Ying and Yang relationship or opposites attract... there is power in these relationships and that is true for ours... and the recognition of what we could do and be together was noted before we started dating and continues to be something special about our relationship. 

 

As a sexual I've come to believe that being Ace is akin to a super power. I'm not jealous of you all but I do think there is beauty in the ability to not have any sexual distraction in your life. That ability often means you can be a powerhouse of good, get-all-kinds-of-shit-done, and mountain moves etc. Hats off to you all!

 

Thank you Traveler and the other in-depth and thoughtful responses... The banter is hard for me to sift through honestly so I appreciate those of you who have kept this post on point. I appreciate the community and understand the banter is part of that. It adds to the time it takes to find the gold nuggets but I'm very thankful for the community and the nuggets that can be found in here. 

[MyWifeIsNotTheAllo]

On 4/28/2022 at 6:35 PM, Mountain House said:

Thanks @MyWifeIsNotTheAllo. It's been a while since I read the OP and in rereading I came across this assertion of @MyWifeIsAce's.

 

I'm not sure the term "unwarranted" is warranted in this context. Having been exposed directly with the baggage I seem to have collected over the years due my mismatched sexuality in my marriage I am more inclined to consider these insecurities a development of psychological trauma. Think about the phrases we use; "What am I doing wrong?", "Is my partner not attracted to me?", "Why am I being rejected?". If we were to use a similar phraseology when describing a parent child relationship we would certainly consider it trauma.

 

I think these insecurities are warranted and I think it should be talked about.

 

Discussion - go.

 

Oh, and I see what you did with your name there. Nice tip of the hat. 👍

Interesting. Had not thought of it as a trauma. Gonna hafta ponder that one. And thanks, finally having a voice was, in the moment, sort of liberating.

[MyWifeIsAce]

On 5/6/2022 at 8:49 PM, MyWifeIsNotTheAllo said:

Interesting. Had not thought of it as a trauma. Gonna hafta ponder that one. And thanks, finally having a voice was, in the moment, sort of liberating.

I second the idea of not previously thinking of this as trauma, but thanks to this forum and comments I do now. Thank you. This has helped me understand some pain and hurt which have even partially turned into kink/fantasy which I did not previously understand. Through understanding healing is happening. 

[Ceebs]

On 5/6/2022 at 9:16 AM, MyWifeIsAce said:

As a sexual I've come to believe that being Ace is akin to a super power. I'm not jealous of you all but I do think there is beauty in the ability to not have any sexual distraction in your life. That ability often means you can be a powerhouse of good, get-all-kinds-of-shit-done, and mountain moves etc. Hats off to you all!

I don't know that I agree with this and I feel like many sexual folks might not either. It actively plays into the asexual elitism you see on AVEN a lot. I've never understood why some people think being asexual allows you to achieve more in life, why desiring sex with others limits anyone in other areas. It makes no sense unless we're talking about someone very mentally unbalanced who'd fit in the category of those who have sex/love addictions (i.e. people struggling with other issues, like mental illness or trauma, whose primary or even sole source of fulfilment and validation comes from the pursuit of being sexually and/or romantically desired to a degree that interferes an abnormal amount with the rest of their life and jeopardises their wellbeing/safety). Edit: On a personal note, as someone who struggles with addiction issues in other areas, a healthy and fulfilling relationship is something that is slowly helping me live a better life. I think people who have healthy social connections are the ones who are most likely to be 'a powerhouse of good' and able to get things done, pursue their dreams, help others, etc. There's no reason a sexual person would be able to achieve less than an asexual (and if they're in a good relationship, it's probably actively helping them do the things they want to).

 

Anyway, there's this strange narrative I see here frequently about how asexuals have so much more time for things like intellectual pursuits and various hobbies and it's always infused with some sort of undertones of elitism and weird... purity. It's strange that it's acceptable, because one could flip the script and say that sexuals also have a 'superpower' that allows them to connect more thoroughly or intimately or meaningfully with the people we love than asexuals can -- and that sure wouldn't fly on AVEN. (Even though some of us may actually feel it's frequently true.)

[El-]

@MyWifeIsAce Your messages give us so much hope. My partner and I just found out that she's graysexual and we relate a lot to what you wrote:

 

On 3/14/2022 at 3:30 AM, MyWifeIsAce said:

(Oh my gosh my feelings of wanting to show you how much I love, care, and need you in a sexual way is in no way crazy or perverted, and for her... Oh my gosh I'm not crazy, I don't need to fix me, there is nothing wrong with me, there is nothing wrong with us... we just are different in our thoughts, ideas, and how we deal with and think about sex).

Understanding each other helps us heal our pain from the past, but we are also trying to find solutions for fulfilling the happy shared future we always wanted.
If you don't mind I wanted to ask a bit more about your experience to see how my partner and I can learn and get to where we want together.

 

On 4/1/2022 at 4:39 AM, MyWifeIsAce said:

Likewise it would be quite difficult for me to uncouple sex from love... not saying I couldn't or wouldn't, but it would be hard and there are times I know I would enjoy the sex and still wish it could be with the love of my life.... thankfully that is not where we landed on this flight.

I feel this so much, especially as a demisexual. Like the first quote, it felt like a love-language I was speaking which my partner did not naturally understand in the same way, but we still both want to experience it happily. We hope this will improve by seeing sexual intimacy & sex as happy, pressure-free and safe things.
Also, can you explain about the latter part of what you wrote though? Were you referring to an open relationship?

 

On 4/1/2022 at 4:39 AM, MyWifeIsAce said:

With this shift in understanding anything I would have previously did, that she interpreted as pushing, went away/changed and that was likely the moment or the days when where she started to feel safe again, to play in a space that didn't come natural to her. That shift was a huge surprise to me. 
...
My wife kinda chooses when she wants to seduce me and I can remind her of my desires in a totally non-physical gentle whisper... and that can totally be the end of it for me now until the next day when the urge hasn't gone away... and my approach is the same... tell and let it go. We've gone from sex that wasn’t regular and wasn’t fulfilling to either of us to regular extremely fun, fulfilling, and enjoyable regular/routine sex that we both enjoy with this approach. It helps that we understand comfort boundaries, fantasies, tendencies, etc. (via the yes, no, maybe resource i linked in my above comment). Sex went from a pressure zone to a total no-pressure zone.

This seems like the ideal way of going forward to us. We feel that we are each other's best friend, best romantic partners, and both monogamists; those facts (along with me being demisexual) make any other option (open, breakup) so much less preferable, so we hope to reach what you are describing.
This solution being called "compromise sex" by others to me seems misphrased. Sure, it'll always be an area of inherent incompatibility, but as this is a spectrum, and in our case we do both want sexuality in the relationship (even if not for completely overlapping goals or reasons) - wanting to bridge the gaps and safely finding areas of mutual desire (again, even if for not overlapping reasons!) is a comforting, loving and happy choice, not a compromise.
I think that sexuality between someone who needs it with their partner and someone who doesn't will always be different and not naturally fulfilling (which leads to issues, fears), but it can still be loving and fulfilling to both partners. It's non-intuitive and difficult to understand, but as we do understand each other better we are more hopeful of it happening.

 

May I ask if you have any other tips, information or resources beyond what you've already linked? Are you and your wife going to therapy together, or practicing anything else which is helpful with this?

Thank you so much!

[ryn2]

3 hours ago, Lady Telecaster said:

this strange narrative I see here frequently

I see it - maybe incorrectly - as “coping with my unhappiness about/stress around [x] chews up so much time and energy, and I wish I could be free not to care about [x] so I could enjoy life instead.”

 

But that’s not really about being sexual, or asexual.  It’s about mental health and happiness.  The time/energy drain is the unhappiness/stress, and underlying mental health challenges may exacerbate it.

 

People can be sexual and content, or asexual and content… or either and not content.

 

The superpower is basically being in a good place mentally at a given point in time.  Often people who come here for relationship advice or ideas aren’t in a good place…  which sucks, sure, but [insert specific concern around sex here] is just the stressor.

[Traveler40]

@El- Given you and your wife are both on the ace spectrum, I believe you have a better shot than most to make it work. 👍🏼

Edit: I suppose I throw that out there given I identified as Demi based on the definition presented on AVEN in my early days here. I’m still confused on it, but suffice it to say I am not on the ace spectrum full stop. Having to connect sex with love is fairly common and a wholly different notion. Anyhow, that backdrop adds color to my comment above. 

[Ceebs]

@ryn2 I do agree there, yeah. Thought of that myself. People just want to be in situations where they feel good and are fulfilled. Sexuals and asexuals alike can experience that. I don't think anyone actually has a superpower... it's just the 'grass is greener' factor when you feel stressed about something.

[MyWifeIsAce]

10 hours ago, Lady Telecaster said:

a healthy and fulfilling relationship is something that is slowly helping me live a better life. I think people who have healthy social connections are the ones who are most likely to be 'a powerhouse of good' and able to get things done, pursue their dreams, help others, etc. There's no reason a sexual person would be able to achieve less than an asexual (and if they're in a good relationship, it's probably actively helping them do the things they want to).

I whole-heartedly agree with you here. Being in a balanced relationship is a HUGE help to my personal well-being. Thanks to awareness we are hitting our stride and addressing some long-standing issues in an open and very honest environment. Lots of very honest conversations that we could never have before. 

 

10 hours ago, Lady Telecaster said:

Anyway, there's this strange narrative I see here frequently about how asexuals have so much more time for things like intellectual pursuits and various hobbies and it's always infused with some sort of undertones of elitism and weird... purity. It's strange that it's acceptable, because one could flip the script and say that sexuals also have a 'superpower' that allows them to connect more thoroughly or intimately or meaningfully with the people we love than asexuals can -- and that sure wouldn't fly on AVEN. (Even though some of us may actually feel it's frequently true.)

I haven't really thought about it from this perspective but I can see that side of the conversation too. I think for a lot of ACE people they must (and through conversations with my ace I know this to be true) feel they are SOOOOOO different and that that can bring about a certain bit of sadness in a mixed relationship or in relation to "the rest" of society. I just wanted to give some ACE love to those feeling that way. I can see your perspective and it's important to keep a balanced view of acceptance of all people and perspectives.

[MyWifeIsAce]

8 hours ago, El- said:

May I ask if you have any other tips, information or resources beyond what you've already linked? Are you and your wife going to therapy together, or practicing anything else which is helpful with this?

Thank you so much!

Thanks for your notes and comments! We've been on months of waitlists (yes more than one) to see a couples therapist. While we wait we've been doing a ton of work on our own. Currently we have dived deep into Attachment Theory (Attachment Styles). This has helped us better understand each other and also understand our triggers or insecurities and has made some of the repeat conversations likely more tolerable as we work through the insecurities that are common with our attachment styles. Another resource we've been diving into is the book: Hold me tight (which is also specific to attachment styles / theory). 

 

In relations to your other questions... yes in the beginning I my world was totally thrown upside down and based on everything we read it looked like an open relationship was one of the only options that worked for other people... while we never opened the relationship I asked that we not remove that as an option for later while I processed what was happening. For me the possibility of a half-open relationship was a ray of hope when all else seemed like a dark future together... once I fully processed what that would look like however I realized that would be a dark outcome for me (/us). I did feel I needed the understanding as a sexual from my ACE partner. To those who draw those same conclusions from AVEN or elsewhere... I'd just say be careful what you believe your only options are or what your future will look like as a couple. While open can be a viable option for some couples just understand that every relationship is different and constantly takes work and understanding... just be true to your own journey as individuals and a couple. Each path is our own to walk, and with understanding hopefully for us working to make mixed relationships work... we remain hand-in-hand. 

[El-]

4 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

@El- Given you and your wife are both on the ace spectrum, I believe you have a better shot than most to make it work. 👍🏼

Edit: I suppose I throw that out there given I identified as Demi based on the definition presented on AVEN in my early days here. I’m still confused on it, but suffice it to say I am not on the ace spectrum full stop. Having to connect sex with love is fairly common and a wholly different notion. Anyhow, that backdrop adds color to my comment above. 

Thank you for your words, @Traveler40. We also feel that with me being demi and her being gray-a we are hopefully not too far apart (although we are distinctly different there, which caused a lot of issues we hope to now resolve). Regarding demi identification, this article over demisexuality.org was really useful to me. I do believe that this is definitely a gray area and that many people might have some similar feelings without identifying as demisexual though.

[Traveler40]

12 hours ago, El- said:

 Regarding demi identification, this article over demisexuality.org was really useful to me. I do believe that this is definitely a gray area and that many people might have some similar feelings without identifying as demisexual though.

Great article and something that should be posted on AVEN to clear up confusion for folks like me. Needing love with your sex or sex with your love is not what Demisexual means.
 

I’ve always been high libido sexual, but once upon a time (based on a misleading definition here that said you must be in love to have sex) I thought I was “demi”. 🙄. Anyhow, thanks for that!

[Ceebs]

1 hour ago, Traveler40 said:

I’ve always been high libido sexual, but once upon a time (based on a misleading definition here that said you must be in love to have sex) I thought I was “demi”. 🙄. Anyhow, thanks for that!

Yeah I've heard some of that on here. I can't count the number of times I've tried to preempt the 'Are you demi?' type comments by clarifying why I'm NOT demi even though I'm not a highly visual person when it comes to attraction, experience sexual desire for someone primarily based on personality and even their gender/sex doesn't matter to me, and really am not particularly interested in sex with someone without a strong emotional connection.