we need to get rid of cars-or at least reduce them

[SorryNotSorry]

6 hours ago, Someone Else said:

Limiting everyone to bikes will hurtle us back into the stone age, when people didn't go very far from town.  You're pretty much limited to whatever shops and work opportunities are available in your home town -- beyond that, you've got nothing.  Even a small state like Connecticut would largely be inaccessible to most of its residents.  People commute to work, and would be biking an hour or more to work every day as people who work, in, say an office in Hartford almost never live there.  
It's a draconian solution.  Cars aren't the problem, fossil fuels are the problem.  Many corporations are big polluters, and it's all just propaganda that if we, as regular citizens, "go green" that we'll make a difference while they pump poison into the environment at astounding rates. 

We're also part of the problem. I'm thinking of all of us who didn't take electric shop in school or who flunked our science classes.

 

You know, my computer nerd buddy occasionally raves about how great the city of Davis, California is (one of his old college buddies moved there some years ago), so finally I put him in the hot seat by asking him what's so out-of-this-world about Davis. He said the streets of Davis are practically tailor-made for bikes. I've never been there, so I have no plans to find out.

 

Does the abortion dilemma not also spill over into the issue of private vehicle ownership? If abortions are outlawed, only outlaws will have abortions. If private motor vehicle ownership is outlawed, only outlaws will drive.

[Fangorn]

A lot of people living in places where cars are needed wouldn't be able to pay higher taxes. Driving to the nearest grocery store from where I live takes half an hour, and driving to the nearest city takes close to an hour. Most people who live here are in about the same situation. We don't have public transport, and we don't want it. It wouldn't work here. Just the buses going to the school already don't work, because everyone is way too spread out, so hour long bus rides are common. Also, if any cars at all were still being used, the routes to get to cities would be incredibly dangerous to walk or cycle on. There's also a lot of disabled people who need cars. I'm not able to ride a bike because of dyspraxia, and I can't walk too much because of my joints not being connected how they're supposed to be. And I already can't afford a car as it is.

 

I do think that we should try to reduce cars. Ideally, we wouldn't need them at all. But I don't think just raising taxes on cars is the way to achieve that, because so many people would be unable to get anywhere because of it. It would just make it more difficult for the people who need them, and plenty of people who don't need them would still be able to have them. And even if there were rules on who could be exempt from the taxes, there would absolutely be people who needed it but weren't able to get that, just like there's people who can't work but can't get disability benefits. We would need a lot of other changes before this could be possible.

[Albine]

Sorry I am a car person I luv my freedom to go where and when I want to actually have 2 cars one I drive  for everyday and the other for just plain cruising  I convertible and I LUV IT !  LOL   Hey its cool if you want to walk or bike and I do that too but to ban or do away with cars just pure fantasy. People like to drive and go places the lets face it US public trans systems suck! unless you are on a large city  NYC, Boston exception noted but otherwise banning cars is just not a practical idea for most people   

[gymgirl]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:12 PM, oldgeeza said:

You mentioned people living in rural areas or a distance from where they work, when I bought my house over twenty years ago, I worked locally, I had three jobs, the nearest was a quarter of a mile away, the furthest was eight miles away, I did three jobs a day, every day and I cycled everywhere, gradually businesses closed down, some moving to other countries, some just closed, nothing replaced these, the properties were eventually demolished and turned into residential properties, apart from shops, hotels, nursing homes and rehabilitation centres, there's nothing left in the town, where I live, 95% of people commute at least 25 miles for work, I can't afford to move as house prices have risen faster than wages have, I'm in my mid fifties, I wouldn't even be able to get a mortgage now due to my age and I don't earn enough so I have to put up with what I've got, as a night shift worker, there's no public transport after 8pm, where I work, the nearest public transport is a bus stop an hour's walk away

I just hope you understand that I did not intend to criticize you or other persons in a similar situation but the policy that has led to it.

[Someone Else]

I wonder if one's geographical location and local neighborhood have any effect on whether or not a person could see getting rid of cars.  
I mean, the nearest major grocery store is 40 minutes away by foot, just a couple of minutes by car.  

[AspieAlly613]

35 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

I wonder if one's geographical location and local neighborhood have any effect on whether or not a person could see getting rid of cars.  
I mean, the nearest major grocery store is 40 minutes away by foot, just a couple of minutes by car.  

I wholeheartedly agree.  *MY* lifestyle works well without a car, and I think suburbs should be made more walkable, but rural areas are necessarily heavily car-dependent.

[Someone Else]

21 hours ago, AspieAlly613 said:

I wholeheartedly agree.  *MY* lifestyle works well without a car, and I think suburbs should be made more walkable, but rural areas are necessarily heavily car-dependent.

I've been seeing youtube videos of various European cities and I was surprised by all these wide streets, pack with small businesses.  The streets had absolutely NO cars, just large numbers of pedestrians walking the middle of the road in a major city! 
I've never seen anything like it in person.  A lot of US neighborhoods are absolutely designed with the expectation of cars and would be pretty  bad places to live on foot.

[Albine]

I think its hard to compare Europe with with the US most countries are the size of Pennsylvania and  people live is very dense areas. US is much more spread out. I think with the pandemic and all people have got use to working remotely, if business would adopt that policy moving forward, yes we would have less congestion less cars and less pollution.  

 

Possibly look into a taxing the number of cars one has, say after 2 cars you would pay an additional tax for having a 3rd car per household. Or possibly in certain metro areas during rush hours say 7:30-9AM and 4-5:30PM only commuters should be allowed on the road, with of course certain exceptions. Just an idea

[SorryNotSorry]

On 3/22/2022 at 11:53 AM, Albine said:

I think its hard to compare Europe with with the US most countries are the size of Pennsylvania and  people live is very dense areas. US is much more spread out. I think with the pandemic and all people have got use to working remotely, if business would adopt that policy moving forward, yes we would have less congestion less cars and less pollution.  

Good idea.

On 3/22/2022 at 11:53 AM, Albine said:

 

Possibly look into a taxing the number of cars one has, say after 2 cars you would pay an additional tax for having a 3rd car per household. Or possibly in certain metro areas during rush hours say 7:30-9AM and 4-5:30PM only commuters should be allowed on the road, with of course certain exceptions. Just an idea

Bad idea.

[SorryNotSorry]

Man oh man, you should've seen the line of cars at Costco to get gas this morning. I'm still shaking my head about people who think shelling out $6.29 a gallon is somehow more economical than trading in a gas or diesel vehicle for an EV, but the caveat there is that all the new EVs have already been reserved for people who've paid a down on them. Right now it's not possible to go to a dealership and see any new shiny EVs in the showroom or on the lot.

 

I just hope at least some of those buyers know how to wire a wall socket...

[Acing It]

On 3/10/2022 at 5:41 PM, Sammie M said:

something needs to be done to make it more economically viable, as well as expand the services.

There's a difficult argument to resolve. Both pull in different directions if the state doesn't cough up a lot of money. 

On 3/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, AspieAlly613 said:

Yes, suburbs should be walkable.  Nothing we can do about rural farmland, though.

Make it all into suburbs? 😂

 

Though I agree with the OP, I think with the way society is organised now, having an effective public transport system is almost impossible to build in many areas and for a lot of people. I travel a lot between places for my job and a public transport system that would be viable for me would be extremely hard to build. As society is organised now, I wouldn't be able to do my work. I think before we can get rid of cars, or minimise them, it needs a complete societal overhaul, on top of much improved and cheaper public transport. Everything is built around car-like transport and 'freedom'. We're all addicted to that freedom as well, chucking a picnic in the car and off we go kind of thing. It will take a lot of convincing before you get people lugging suitcases or other 'baggage' around on public transport again. 

I do agree, though. I hate the way roads are clogged up these days, and it's getting worse (fully realising I'm one of the 'clogger uppers'). Driving skills and driving awareness are also getting worse and worse. Does anyone indicate when they overtake anymore? I don't find driving pleasant at the best of times and I'd rather not do it too often, but the way things are now, is getting really unpleasant. A car free, yet fully functioning society, would be bliss. 

[Acing It]

A bit more controversial but I do feel that what would help would be if people bought more sensible cars instead of fuel guzzling p*nis extensions. Some of the cars you see on the road here, well actually a lot of the cars you see on the road here are clearly a result of low self esteem/I want to look importantism and stupidity. I think it's a sign of the times. Some people also have far too much money. This kind of tw*t  😄

 

 

[LeChat]

On 3/10/2022 at 12:20 PM, ben8884 said:

I believe that we need to get rid of cars. Doing this would greatly improve our environment as well as reduce dependency on foreign oil. We could also potentially save money. I am not proposing an outright banning of cars rather I would raise taxes on them and fuel while putting money into public transit making public transit more desirable than driving. Whose with me? What other reasons are there to ditch cars? 

I read an article, years ago, that it'd help improve air quality and reduce deaths, health problems, etc., due to vehicle exhaust.

 

Yeah. I wish small towns in the U.S. tried going car-free for, at least, a week, using bicycles, like the Netherlands. I do that; it's not that difficult because everything's close by (i.e. schools, stores). It'd be a lot safer, though, if there were less speeding drivers.

[ben8884]

I think sensible cars would mitigate but ultimately I would like to see car usage  drastically reduced and the few cars we use be sensible cars

[Sally]

1 hour ago, LeChat said:

Yeah. I wish small towns in the U.S. tried going car-free for, at least, a week, using bicycles, like the Netherlands. I do that; it's not that difficult because everything's close by (i.e. schools, stores). It'd be a lot safer, though, if there were less speeding drivers.

That's not really true of small towns in the US; necessities are often strung out for miles, not contained within a small area.  In farm areas, farms are often many miles from town.  Families can't easily take their kids to daycare or the doctor by bicycle.  It's actually easier to go without a car in a big city, because there is usually some sort of transit system, and discrete neighborhoods often have necessities near apartment houses.  

[Zagadka]

Most of the US is in a situation where entire regions were designed entirely around personal vehicles, with necessities, housing, and shopping spread miles apart with poor transit options (usually buses, which are irregular and have long waits).

 

It is not practical for a large number of Americans to bike or take mass transit, and because of that, those things are rarely developed, which makes them bad, which makes Americans not willing to use them, which means they are not developed.

 

Even good ideas such as utilizing induced demand to create (non-shitty) bike lanes and mass transit tend to fall flat, because people still need a car to go outside of city centers, where a lot of things are.

 

There is this baked in concept that mass transit is not worth it, because what we have is extremely bad, and only really exists in cities.

[LeChat]

@Sally Well, it'd, literally, work in my area because it's the equivalent to rural towns in the Netherlands, where schools, downtown area, etc. are all less than 2-3 miles away and adults and kids in the Netherlands cycle that distance to their schools, downtown area, etc. I figured my area can't be the only place where it'd work, if car culture wasn't so strong.

 

I know some places can be far away; I cycle longer distances (20+ miles round trip) to commute to places.

 

Bikes and Scooters Could Replace a Lot of Car Trips in U.S. Cities – Streetsblog California

 

The Secrets of Small Town Bicycling | PeopleForBikes

 

BicycleDutch - YouTube

[Zagadka]

8 minutes ago, LeChat said:

@Sally Well, it'd, literally, work in my area because it's the equivalent to rural towns in the Netherlands, where schools, downtown area, etc. are all less than 2-3 miles away and adults and kids in the Netherlands cycle that distance to their schools, downtown area, etc. I figured my area can't be the only place where it'd work, if car culture wasn't so strong

This would still require bike infrastructure. The nearest grocery store to me, in a suburb in a metropolitan area, is 2 miles (3.5 to the one I use). My doctor is 8 miles away. It is theoretically possible to bike from here to the coast (about 7 miles). That path is mostly along a painted lane on a 60 mph highway*. There are no places to park/store bikes at most places, and I've never worked at a place with something as simple as a shower.

 

And American drivers *loathe* cyclists.

 

It is possibly doable, if we have a complete rearrangement of culture and investment in infrastructure. When I lived in San Francisco and Oakland for over a decade, I never owned a car and got around happily, living a couple of blocks from BART, and being able to bike through residential zones to most places, where I could park and walk. That was not possible anywhere I lived in LA or San Diego - and I can't imagine trying that in, like, Omaha.

 

 

 

* This is the only path to the coast from here (green is the "bike lane"), and I am not going to bike it. I have only ever seen a couple of cyclists in the past year, and those were almost all unhoused people migrating.

 

Spoiler

 

[AspieAlly613]

Bear in mind that for a lot of municipalities, hard to drive around quickly = no one wants to live or go there.

[SorryNotSorry]

On 3/26/2022 at 7:02 PM, ben8884 said:

I think sensible cars would mitigate but ultimately I would like to see car usage  drastically reduced and the few cars we use be sensible cars

A sensible car??? I'd be satisfied with a dumb but reliable one.

[J. van Deijck]

I need the car to get to the hospital since I'm being carried on the wheelchair, otherwise could use a bike as it's something normal in where I live.

[Lilibulero]

Some poor soul,who thought they'd cracked the issue by having an electric car, got a shock in town the other day.

 

They charged their car at a LIDL car park and because it went over the parking allowance, they were fined £90.

 

Mind you, 90 minutes is a nightmare, compared with 3 minutes fill up with petrol.

[nutterwithasolderingiron]

3 hours ago, Lilibulero said:

Some poor soul,who thought they'd cracked the issue by having an electric car, got a shock in town the other day.

 

They charged their car at a LIDL car park and because it went over the parking allowance, they were fined £90.

 

Mind you, 90 minutes is a nightmare, compared with 3 minutes fill up with petrol.

*looks at my bike and looks at a tesco £3:50 lunch deal* yeah i can fill up in less time that that. 

[nutterwithasolderingiron]

 

[Albine]

We have to face facts that our dependence on coal oil natural gas is here for the long term no way the country is going utopia green anytime soon, and if we somehow did  you think China, Russia, India are going to follow  rrrright.  Do we need to be responsible yes, do we need to infuse green energy into our system of course but stopping drilling and mining coal is not going to work, maybe 100 yrs from now possibly. Remember all the junk they are telling us about clean energy is mostly a pipe dream. we will get more than 10-20% of our energy from wind solar Geo thermal in the foreseeable future bottom line. and walking, biking, public transportation can really only go so far.

sorry jut keeping it real.

[Snao Cone]

1 minute ago, Albine said:

our dependence on coal oil natural gas is here for the long term

You're assuming those resources themselves are around for the long term, or that an inhabitable world that excessively consumes them can be sustained. "There's no way you can convince people to change" isn't going to sway the climate or physical resources. They don't listen to your arguments.

 

4 minutes ago, Albine said:

and walking, biking, public transportation can really only go so far.

This is not an inevitability. It can be made more practical. People just refuse to let that be a priority out of stubbornness and selfishness. Is your point that too many people are bad for good change to come? Or is your point that people who walk and bike and take public transit are stupid and foolish and naive for trying?

[Albine]

In the Us most people like their independence and a car / truck is essential for independence. the best way we could easily improve the situation regarding say cars, is doing what we did during the pandemic allow people the ability to work from home if at all possible. Personally if you have to drive say 20 miles to work, realistically most are not going to use public transportation, so a car is necessary.   For business to allow their employees to work from home if possible or have them come into the office  1-2 days a week would greatly help the situation.

[nutterwithasolderingiron]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:27 PM, Albine said:

In the Us most people like their independence and a car / truck is essential for independence. the best way we could easily improve the situation regarding say cars, is doing what we did during the pandemic allow people the ability to work from home if at all possible. Personally if you have to drive say 20 miles to work, realistically most are not going to use public transportation, so a car is necessary.   For business to allow their employees to work from home if possible or have them come into the office  1-2 days a week would greatly help the situation.

not really. it's common for people who live in glasgow to work in edinburgh and take the train because by the time you work out parking and petrol and the time it takes, it's easier. if you have a bike, that makes it even easier because you can basically cycle right onto the train and cycle right off. there's a good 50 miles between the 2 cities. granted, suburban hellscapes where there's a 6 mile drive if you want to visit the person who shares a fence with you. 

 

working from home is a good start, but if people still have to get in their cars and drive 5+ miles to do some shopping, it's not going to help. also let's not even talk about how bad for the environment a lot of these suburbs are. poor design means people HAVE to drive everywhere, this causes more damage to the roads which costs more in taxes when repairs need to be done. many suburban homes are built cheaply so they're more expensive to heat during winter.... i shouldn't need to tell you the issues with that. lawns in a lot of these hellscapes are notoriously difficult to maintain (because of things like minimum lot sizes, it's easier to build a small house with a large lawn) and HOA's being pretty strict means you'll have to use a lot of water and fertilizer to maintain said lawn. when i've complained about this kinda thing to americans (because we sadly adopted it from you) i'm often told "muh freedum" but what about the freedom NOT to want to deal with that? it's much harder because many multi-family builds are illegal in the US outside dense urban areas. 

[daveb]

4 minutes ago, nutterwithasolderingiron said:

it's easier to build a small house with a large lawn

Here, especially in newer housing, it's more often the opposite. Large houses with small lawns. Because the land can be at a premium, and developers can get more money for larger houses than they can for larger lots. So we see plenty of housing where the is just enough for a walkway along the sides of each house, and not much depth to front and back yards. This might apply mostly to places like the suburbs around big cities along the west coast, where house prices are very high, more than places like the Midwest.

 

But I agree that more can be done and should be done to reduce dependence on cars wherever possible, and to make it possible to have a good job and a good home and good quality of life without needing a car.

[Snao Cone]

Mown grass lawns are bad, snout houses are bad (houses where the driveway and multi-car garage sticks out and the actual living house is hardly noticeable behind it), streets without sidewalks are bad, a lack of bike-based infrastructure is bad, effectively mandatory car ownership is bad, excessive driving is bad. HOAs are definitely bad. Basically most suburbs are bad for the environment and, in many ways, society itself. But this is what many cities in North America are built around, and most people who live like this are so insistent that it's how God wants them to live that they will defend it with violence if necessary, even though it's a significant part of what is destroying the earth.

 

I get it, drivers. You have limited options. I think that's a failure of our society. You think that's a justified reason to run me over with your car.