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we need to get rid of cars-or at least reduce them


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I agree. Instead we could bike or walk or whatever you want to do. Driving could only be used for those who need it. People would receive a lot more exercise, and public health would be much better.

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everywhere and nowhere

I fully support the idea. I am personally a staunch non-motorist. First of all because... I tried driving and I know that it's not for me. I have a very active mind, I can't prevent myself from drifting away with my thoughts (which I'm proud of) - but this makes me a potential unsafe driver. I anyway drove... maybe 15 times, and never alone. In the meantime I developed anti-car views in general, in the sense of, first of all, anger at drivers who act as if the city belonged to them and expect everyone to adapt to them and not the other way around. (Last year, after a long discussion, priority for pedestrians was finally introduced. Also last year, fines for traffic offences were finally raised - earlier they were locked in pace for twenty years!!!, until they became completely out of line with average wages. As a result, Poland used to have one of the worst traffic safety records in all European Union.) I feel outraged when some drivers overtake cars which stopped in front of a crosswalk (it used to be punished with just 500 zlotys fine - the equivalent of less than 150 dollars - and 10 penalty points, but the limit is 20 :angry:). I have commented it on forums that "such drivers are either psychopaths who don't care if they kill some pedestrian subhuman, or idiots who don't even understand what is going on around them - and neither psychopaths nor idiots should be allowed to drive". But then I realised that I could, hypothetically, do the same because of my absent-mindedness. Because of this I made a final decision to never try driving again.

I am also a disabled person. I have damaged knee joints, particularly right one, after an injury over 25 years ago. I can't squat, can't bend my leg too much, can't stand without walking for a longer time because it too makes my knee stiffen in a painful way. I wear a knee brace for sports just in case. And despite this, I move around by cycling. I used to travel with public transit, but I almost stopped since the pandemic started. So if I can do without a car, it's even less of a problem for able-bodied people.

Edited by everywhere and nowhere
typo
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TormentDubz

To me it sounds like a big middle finger to those who have to travel a decent distance to work and don’t have pubic transportation options (at least reliable ones or ones that work with their schedule) and those who want to travel to see their family that lives a long distance away but can’t afford plane tickets. Gas prices are high enough as they are currently, raising them might just put them out of jobs entirely if they can afford gas even less

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I will say, we desperately need to invest in public transit because I know what its like to live somewhere without it. But I would rather take a high-speed train from Ottawa to Toronto that takes say, 3 hours than drive from Ottawa to Toronto which is expensive and takes twice as long. These trains would also be a lot cheaper than driving currently are.

 

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I want to live in an RV when I graduate college so...I kinda agree with this and kinda don't.

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SorryNotSorry

Los Angeles is just not the kind of city with the infrastructure where a magic carpet arrives at your door and can whisk you 20 miles across town to some off-the-beaten-path destination where trains and buses just don't go.

 

It's even worse if you're confined to a wheelchair.

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1 hour ago, SorryNotSorry said:

Los Angeles is just not the kind of city with the infrastructure where a magic carpet arrives at your door and can whisk you 20 miles across town to some off-the-beaten-path destination where trains and buses just don't go.

 

It's even worse if you're confined to a wheelchair.

Sounds like Los Angeles is a poorly designed city and should be redesigned to make it possible for people to get around. Cities are built; they're not immutable elements of nature that we're placed into and stuck with. "I'd have to cross sixteen-lane highways to get to Costco and wouldn't be able to carry my 48kg box of Cheerios home because it's too big to grasp with two arms" is a human-made problem.

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AspieAlly613
20 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Sounds like Los Angeles is a poorly designed city and should be redesigned to make it possible for people to get around. Cities are built; they're not immutable elements of nature that we're placed into and stuck with. "I'd have to cross sixteen-lane highways to get to Costco and wouldn't be able to carry my 48kg box of Cheerios home because it's too big to grasp with two arms" is a human-made problem.

Agreed.  The way to fix this is urban planning, not taxes.

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SorryNotSorry

Yeah, well... maybe I need to hop into my time machine and figure out how to prevent General Motors from killing off the trolley network that was pretty much gone by 1962. They bought the whole damn thing just so they could decommission it.

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3 minutes ago, SorryNotSorry said:

Yeah, well... maybe I need to hop into my time machine and figure out how to prevent General Motors from killing of the trolley network that was pretty much gone by 1962. They bought the whole damn thing just so they could decommission it.

Good idea. 

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I have to admit I like when I am on vacation somewhere and can get to everything I want to get to or need to get to on foot or by train or light rail or ferry. I can avoid using my car most days (so much so that the battery ran out of charge this morning), but as much as I'm not really into driving I'd find it difficult to give up entirely at this time. I suppose I'd find ways to manage if I were forced to give it up. It would be nice if there were more good alternatives here. Portland does have a reasonable light rail system, as long as you're going where it goes. But people tend to vote against extending the system to more places.

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RoseGoesToYale

I don't think we'd ever be able to ditch all four-tired vehicles completely, but the whole 1950s American Dream® idea that every single individual should own a motor vehicle is patently ridiculous, and the biggest tragedy of the commons humans have ever committed. The vast majority of people should have access to comprehensive multi-modal public transit. The only people who should be using personal vehicles are those needed to accomplish tasks in specific occupations (delivery, emergency response, trades/contractual, hauling, etc.) If you're just need to get from Point A to Point B, the transit infrastructure should be there for everyone else to use. Imagine if instead of cars, the American Dream® dictated that every individual should own their own yacht. We'd have clogged up the seven seas by now.

 

Of course, suggest this to the public at large and politicians will pull a Tampa and start crying like babies and asking for their "transit study" security blankets, while conservatives pull a free-dumb and start crying tears of pitch black jacked-up v48 chrome-studded diesel-run pickup truck exhaust.

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In my area, and in many other areas of the US, home prices and rent costs are so high that lower-income people have had to move anywhere from 10 to 40 miles away from the high-priced city cores, and those areas don't have good -- if any -- transit.  However, the cities are where the jobs are, and those lower-income people must drive to and from their jobs.  You can say "X city should be designed better", but that doesn't solve the problem these people have right now.  The transit should come BEFORE any elitist demand to get rid of cars.  That will be difficult, because the US, unlike European countries, doesn't consider transit to be a public amenity, and expects riders to pay for it.  

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40 minutes ago, Sally said:

home prices and rent costs are so high that lower-income people have had to move anywhere from 10 to 40 miles away from the high-priced city cores

Yeah, first would have to get rid of landlords who pump up the prices. But I think humans worship those, extracting money from the poor while making the world a worse place for almost everyone is one of the staple human value?

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17 hours ago, ben8884 said:

I believe that we need to get rid of cars. Doing this would greatly improve our environment as well as reduce dependency on foreign oil. We could also potentially save money. I am not proposing an outright banning of cars rather I would raise taxes on them and fuel while putting money into public transit making public transit more desirable than driving. Whose with me? What other reasons are there to ditch cars? 

The public transport system here in the UK is already overpriced and inefficient, I work odd hours, the hours that public transport doesn't run so, I have to rely on my car as I work over 30 miles away from my home, even though I work in an industrial area, there's no bus or train service nearby, when I say nearby I mean within an hour's walk, we are already well and truly overtaxed when it comes to car ownership, our fuel prices on the pumps have risen at well above the rate of inflation, any excuse and up it goes, car insurance has risen, I pay more for my car insurance at the age of 55 than I did when I was 17, the cost of running in general has gone up so much, if they tax us any more just on vehicle running costs, it will be more efficient to commit crime and go to jail, at least we'll get free bed and breakfast, I agree that public transport needs improvement, but taxing the motorist is not the answer, especially when most public transport is run by shareholders who expect large profits without providing a decent service. I would love to not have to have a car, but there's no work locally that a single person can live on and survive, hence I travel 30 miles to work every day

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First of all we need to reduce the need of commuting over long distances.

It is madness, no matter what means of transport is used, to move a large part of the population, millions of people, from the place where they live into some town or city and in the evening back home  - every day. Imagine putting the whole of some big town into cars and driving them eighty kilometres away to spend their day, then back.

In rural areas you need a car - well, why do people working in the city live in rural areas? Those who must live and work in the country are mainly farmers and the people serving them, craftsmen, doctors, teachers etc.  They would need quite different vehicles than those available now, whether electrical or with combustion engines.

And when they occasionally want or have to go into town, then public transport is a viable option, because it does not happen every day.

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So we're a one-car household, but that doesn't always work out because we both work and we both sometimes work late enough that public transit doesn't run late enough to get us home.  I resisted driving for so long; it scared me and I was sure I could get by without it.  Then I accepted a job that put me outside of biking range, with pubilc transportation not always running when I needed it.  So (not without difficulty) I learned how to drive, got a license, and got a used car.  To put it lightly and to echo what others have said, there's quite a lot that needs to be fixed before we can think about a considerable reduction in the amount of cars

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nutterwithasolderingiron

so can i say this. i know not everyone CAN do this. but can i suggest if you live in an urban area or less than a few miles from your work (3-5) please do consider maybe cycling. so i'm not just saying this because i help out in a bike shop BUT we did have quite a few people come in today saying "i was thinking about getting a bike because of the rising fuel costs and have questions" so i'll answer the questions here in case anyone has the same questions/worries.

 

1. can you daily a bycicle? YES. i would recommend building up. start by doing 1 mile, then a little further each day until you feel you can do it easily. google is your friend to find good places to practice. in the uk, we have the national cycle routes. those are usually good places to practice. 

2. how much does it cost per year to run a bycicle? well you've got the initial cost of the bike and some accessories (lights, small toolkit, pump, lock, bell) but for the most part, it's not much. running my 90's saracen last year maybe cost me less than £50. 

3. how much should i pay for a bike? buy from a used bike shop and it's way less than you'd expect but ideally, £150-£300 is a good sweet spot. 

4. what if i just get this one off facebook/gumtree? not a good idea. most times the bikes we see come in that were "bought off facebook" need so much work that it's not worth it. 

5. what about bikes from this big box shop? NO. our experience is they're often poorly assembled/set up. half the time we've had to cut bits off with the angle grinder because they've not used grease during assembly and things that shouldn't be stuck together, are.

6. how dangerous is cycling? less dangerous than driving statistically. just follow the rules of the road when cycling on the road and give BMW/audi owners an extra wide berth. they drive angry because they have fragile egos.  

7. can you carry a lot on your bike? yes. a good set of pannier racks/bags will carry a few days shopping. 

 

if anyone has any questions about using your bike for commuting, i'll do my best to answer btw. 

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3 hours ago, gymgirl said:

First of all we need to reduce the need of commuting over long distances.

It is madness, no matter what means of transport is used, to move a large part of the population, millions of people, from the place where they live into some town or city and in the evening back home  - every day. Imagine putting the whole of some big town into cars and driving them eighty kilometres away to spend their day, then back.

In rural areas you need a car - well, why do people working in the city live in rural areas? Those who must live and work in the country are mainly farmers and the people serving them, craftsmen, doctors, teachers etc.  They would need quite different vehicles than those available now, whether electrical or with combustion engines.

And when they occasionally want or have to go into town, then public transport is a viable option, because it does not happen every day.

You mentioned people living in rural areas or a distance from where they work, when I bought my house over twenty years ago, I worked locally, I had three jobs, the nearest was a quarter of a mile away, the furthest was eight miles away, I did three jobs a day, every day and I cycled everywhere, gradually businesses closed down, some moving to other countries, some just closed, nothing replaced these, the properties were eventually demolished and turned into residential properties, apart from shops, hotels, nursing homes and rehabilitation centres, there's nothing left in the town, where I live, 95% of people commute at least 25 miles for work, I can't afford to move as house prices have risen faster than wages have, I'm in my mid fifties, I wouldn't even be able to get a mortgage now due to my age and I don't earn enough so I have to put up with what I've got, as a night shift worker, there's no public transport after 8pm, where I work, the nearest public transport is a bus stop an hour's walk away

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everywhere and nowhere
23 hours ago, nutterwithasolderingiron said:

can you daily a bycicle? YES. i would recommend building up. start by doing 1 mile, then a little further each day until you feel you can do it easily.

I wanted to add one thing: I nevertheless can't cycle daily because... I just can't cycle during my period, at least on days 2-4. I can only use pads and I have a heavy enough period that it means a high risk of a leak. (I really wish an external version of menstrual cups existed...) Fortunately, I work at home, always have, so my schedule is different than for most people. But the fact that my knee sometimes hurt doesn't dissuade me from cycling, unlike my period. I will NEVER. EVER. DRIVE.

 

I only wish that more people would perceive a decision not to drive as an act of responsbility, and not a sign of being a loser.

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I think that there are many alternatives to driving. Cycling is one but it's not open to me as honestly I cannot ride a bike very well. I can walk though and living in a city, I am lucky to have busses. In fact, I am on one right now. I don't think we can ever do away with cars but I think we can massively reduce their use.

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Yeah, I would love to at least drastically reduce the need for cars. I really commend people who have been able to mange their lives to not need cars. I know there will come a time I will have to give mine up, if for no other reason than I will likely reach a point where it won't be safe for me to be driving. That could be any number of years away. I'm not sure what I will do when that time comes. Might have to consider moving house. While I can still drive I'd also consider some sort of car sharing arrangement, but for now my car is paid off and in good shape and requires very little extra expense beyond gas and insurance.

 

I did manage to hold off from having a car much longer than most of my peers, but that meant depending on friends and family for rides sometimes. Not for getting to and from work or school (as I managed to live not too far from where I worked most of my working life - the main exception being when I worked in one location and went to college in a different one, and the only viable option was to live close to one and drive to the other), but mostly for doing things like going to events and locations for fun activities with said friends. Where I lived not having a car also put a damper on dating, especially for guys as we were expected to pick the girl up in those days in that part of the country. (not that I dated much anyway) :P 

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Yeah, I didn’t really start driving until I was almost 24. When I was in college getting there and back with public transit wasn’t so difficult (except for the creeps as I’ve mentioned; unfortunately they’ll probably always exist no matter how good public transport and city planning gets). But I remember when I got my first temp job after college and was just taking anything I could get, so I took it eventhough it was like 20 miles away, my dad had to drop me off at the trolley station (or else I would have had to leave even earlier to take a bus there) and then I had to take a trolley and a bus which would take like 2 hours. Doing that on top of working 8 hours definitely wasn’t fun.

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On 3/10/2022 at 1:00 PM, Gloomy said:

Reduce? Perhaps. Outright getting rid of cars is never gonna happen. Not everyone wants to live in big cities with public transport. Not everyone even feels safe taking it. Being hit on and harassed was pretty much a fact of life for me when I was walking/taking public transport. I definitely never felt safe if I had to do that after dark. 
 

Also like usual the “elites” probably won’t practice what they preach and will still have their own private cars and jets.

Yeaaaahhhh I'm with Gloomy on this.  As much as of a fan I am of offering better transport options for people, some people just need to have access to a vehicle.  It's great for basic independence, and for getting to places on your own terms.  Not to mention for disabled people, it's a must.  I like owning a car for this reason, and if anything I wish cars and their insurances were a lot more affordable rather than spending a literal mortgage keeping one.  It's complicated and not easy to solve when our whole infrastructure (at least in America, unsure about most developed countries) is based around the use of cars.  It's not sustainable as a system.

 

Cars, if they're going to stay, need to be reduced in some way or be converted to be more energy efficient outside of oil, or both.  Natural gas extraction is killing us as a species, and is killing our biosphere.  And I like living here and I love nature, so...  

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27 minutes ago, vmdraco said:

Not to mention for disabled people, it's a must.

For a lot of disabled people it is absolutely not an option, and the more people have cars out of convenience rather than necessity, the less investment is put in ways that these people can get around, i.e. public transit. It's not just whether or not buses run; parking lots are massive barriers and extremely dangerous given how impatient drivers are to get to the best spot, which is culturally justified because people in cars believe they are inherently more important and don't need to acknowledge humanity of people outside their cars.

 

Sincerely, a disabled person who can't drive a car but still wants to participate in society.

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4 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

For a lot of disabled people it is absolutely not an option, and the more people have cars out of convenience rather than necessity, the less investment is put in ways that these people can get around, i.e. public transit. It's not just whether or not buses run; parking lots are massive barriers and extremely dangerous given how impatient drivers are to get to the best spot, which is culturally justified because people in cars believe they are inherently more important and don't need to acknowledge humanity of people outside their cars.

 

Sincerely, a disabled person who can't drive a car but still wants to participate in society.

I apologize if I overstepped there.  I have friends who use a wheelchair and they've talked about how they would like self-driving cars someday, and thought of that when writing.  I was considering how someone who couldn't walk often would benefit from owning a vehicle.  Considering the issues with parking lots, I can understand how that can cause another host of problems simultaneously.

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I was watching a video that came up in my recommendations earlier, about converting some main streets in some urban areas into "transit malls". Made me think about how maybe we could start doing some more things like that. Cost is minor, since it doesn't take much more than some signage and street markings. Of course, it's the kind of thing that will only work in some places. But it would be good to do where it can work, and can even be done as a temporary thing to see how it works. The flip side is the sort of busy multi-lane roads in some suburban areas that are decidedly not pedestrian-friendly, or even bike-friendly. To me one major thought is we don't have to do some massive change all at once. We can make incremental changes that improve things for everyone. The trouble is finding the popular and political will to do such things. In other words, the same old story for a lot of things that could improve people's lives, the environment, etc.

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SorryNotSorry
11 hours ago, vmdraco said:

some people just need to have access to a vehicle.  It's great for basic independence, and for getting to places on your own terms. 

You forgot those of us who often need to move large loads by ourselves.

11 hours ago, vmdraco said:

Cars, if they're going to stay, need to be reduced in some way or be converted to be more energy efficient outside of oil, or both.  Natural gas extraction is killing us as a species, and is killing our biosphere.  And I like living here and I love nature, so...  

Apparently I'm the only one on God's green Earth who envisions an infrastructure in which homes, condos, and apartment buildings all have solar arrays with battery backups, EV chargers, and moisture capture systems.

 

But we've had this argument before, and I lost. I'm the only one who wouldn't be happy to live like a Stone Age primitive human.

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Someone Else

Limiting everyone to bikes will hurtle us back into the stone age, when people didn't go very far from town.  You're pretty much limited to whatever shops and work opportunities are available in your home town -- beyond that, you've got nothing.  Even a small state like Connecticut would largely be inaccessible to most of its residents.  People commute to work, and would be biking an hour or more to work every day as people who work, in, say an office in Hartford almost never live there.  
It's a draconian solution.  Cars aren't the problem, fossil fuels are the problem.  Many corporations are big polluters, and it's all just propaganda that if we, as regular citizens, "go green" that we'll make a difference while they pump poison into the environment at astounding rates. 

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It's not just fossil fuels. It's safety. It's urban design. It's road rage. It's how we view other human beings. Electric cars will be better than fossil fuel cars, but that doesn't mean the number of cars on the road should stay the same (or be higher). Reducing the impact of traffic is about way, way more than gasoline.

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