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we need to get rid of cars-or at least reduce them


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Just now, Still said:

Killing animals is in itself cruel.

i go by international standards..your opinion just don't carry as good an argument for what is cruel or not since it is heavily biased.

 

3 minutes ago, Still said:

Also, I'll gladly be biased against meat.

i gladly support its sustainable and ethical use.

 

10 minutes ago, Still said:

Never, not once, in my posts did I say I was "anti-car".

but are anti-meat.

 

11 minutes ago, Still said:

you aim to consume as much as possible and feel zero remorse for it?

i consume as little as possible, but feel zero remorse for the consumption that i am responsible for. i don't aim to be perfect..i aim to do better on a daily basis. i think you're seeing a theme here..i like incremental change..not having it crammed down my throat. main reason groups like peta are seen as a joke.

 

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15 minutes ago, Castellum said:.

but are anti-meat.

Yes, and? Is this supposed to be a sick burn or something? As a vegan of course I am.

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This thread is supposedly about pros and cons of cars in society, not an increasingly angry argument between two members about eating meat.  

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2 hours ago, Still said:

Yes, and? Is this supposed to be a sick burn or something? As a vegan of course I am.

as a person who is anti anything..one must accept that not all will embrace your lifestyle choices. i can accept that someone would be against cars which is fine..but that's the beauty of freedom. you're free to refuse buying one.

 

i chose to and have the freedom to buy one.

 

i remember eating a bacon and egg sandwich at a workplace and had a vegan scold me for eating meat. this is where i draw the line. you're free to be vegan and refuse to drive a car, but cross the line in trying to force your lifestyle onto others or talking down to anyone refusing to abide by it. only point i have made in this thread.

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GingerRose

I'm with you optimistically, but realistically struggling.

I used to walk everywhere and take the bus.

Now I live further from all my resources and some places can't be reached by bus or walking.

I am hoping to move soon though.

I just wish I could rely less on cars.

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GingerRose
26 minutes ago, Castellum said:

beauty

Beauty and burden.

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1 hour ago, GingerRose said:

Beauty and burden.

i would rather such a burden than experiencing the suppression of those rights.

 

i would highly recommend travel to such countries, to appreciate the privilege we have.

 

i.e i have traveled to a country where there were zero regulations on "belching" vehicles..it was cheaper to let black soot sew out of your diesel car..than forcing people to pay to fix it..enforcement was a headache. as a result..i got massive migraines not understanding why and was coughing out black soot. i blew out black soot from my nose for days even after leaving.

 

we have regulations for a reason..which is progress. progress is slow and i could already see it start in my city with more electric stations for cars..sooner or later battery technology will be cleaner and greener and more practical than fuel..this, coupled to when its cheaper..will make it a no brainer to make the change.

 

i guess i truly appreciate the freedom i have because i have experienced it firsthand being snuffed from a society.

 

if you've never gone to a country where you always had to look over your shoulder..consider yourself lucky.

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3 hours ago, Burgundy Ashe said:

I think cars that don't have 30+ MPG should be heavily taxed. And the money spent on subsidizing EV companies. 

with rising fuel costs you're technically taxed at the pump..

i know so many who have gotten more efficient cars due to this.

 

i don't think penalizing me for wanting to own a Porshe makes any sense.

 

there are cities in china where you will be hard pressed to go a block without seeing electric buses and cars.

 

some in europe which have more electric cars per capita than many other countries.

 

why is it some governments feel more urgency to not only invest green but also understanding how a market works in incentizing it along with ensuring the infrastructure is envisioned with it in mind vs those who have policies which keep gas cars at the top?

 

how is punishing a tax payer an actual solution? 

 

i drive an electric vehicle at work and can tell you from experience that i wouldn't adopt the technology now.

 

it takes me 8-9 hours to fully charge it..most chargers in my city are class 3..meaning you're waiting hours for a charge.

 

class 1 chargers are harder to find in most cities and even them..takes me a full hour to go from 15% to 80%.

 

its incredibly impractical.

 

guarantee you if you provided a business with kick backs, many more would use part of their parking lots to house electric chargers where they could charge on and get a return on their investment.

 

activism without a plan is essentially demanding to disband police forces and hope crime magically stops happening.

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On 7/2/2022 at 9:26 AM, Sally said:

This thread is supposedly about pros and cons of cars in society, not an increasingly angry argument between two members about eating meat.  

One member, who is strawmanning literally everyone else who chooses to walk instead of drive where possible you mean. 

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On 7/2/2022 at 11:40 AM, Castellum said:

i can accept that someone would be against cars which is fine

 no you can't!! and it's clearly not fine to you. You're arguing with everyone who says they choose to walk where possible, as though their preference for walking is a personal attack against you. Everyone else here can accept that some people prefer to walk, and some drive for necessity or whatever, but you seem incapable of conceding the point that some don't always drive and some never drive, and are aggressively responding to people who are merely speaking about their own personal preference for walking and explaining why they choose not drive. Their lifestyle isn't a personal attack on you. Their personal choice to not own a car isn't a personal attack. Yet you're responding to even the most mundane comments (even those not directed at you) as though someone spat in your cup of tea. As I said earlier, it's become quite comical. 

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1 hour ago, Major West said:

as though their preference for walking 


"but I still think driving a car is a decision people are culpable for"

 

1 hour ago, Major West said:

and are aggressively responding to people who are merely speaking about their own personal preference

"My independence requires less car-focused infrastructure."

 

1 hour ago, Major West said:

Their lifestyle isn't a personal attack on you.

"I mean, it's way easier for me to throw cinder blocks at moving vehicles than to convince enough people to drive less, so..."
 

1 hour ago, Major West said:

explaining why they choose not drive

i simply explained why i choose to drive and why some have no choice..where's the issue? 

 

please point out where i state there is something wrong with walking or taking the bus for people as a whole, vs some places being designed for cars. the specific quote vs your opinion as you misconstruing my words and actual words are important.

 

1 hour ago, Major West said:

and it's clearly not fine to you

i have the right to drive as you have the right to walk and take the bus..hating cars is up to you..but when you demand to know why someone drives and they defend their decision with accurate info..and data you're entitled to disagree..heavy handed push back on my opinion will have me defend it and support it..you can disagree all day but you won't change my opinion on cars.

 

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On 7/2/2022 at 12:42 PM, Burgundy Ashe said:

And the money spent on subsidizing EV companies. 

companies need to be green..if you subsidize a company that uses dirty battery technologies that destroy just as many ecosystems you're only providing the illusion of making a difference.

 

just like if you take gas cars off of the streets, but replace them with an abundance of cars that are fueled with coal generated electricity.

 

solutions are finding ways to recycle rubber.. car batteries that are safely recyclable.

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Sorry to be late into this debate. Firstly a disclaimer, my job is driving based. I'll normally drive close to 100 000 Km a year, and add the same again in passengered travel.

 

Keep cars, and other personal mobility systems, but use either electricity or Hydrogen. I'm totally in agreement that we need to abolish fossil fuel consumption, but this can be done using technology that already exists. Whilst we're at it, ban the sale of fossil fuel burning trucks, buses ,trains because we can already use alternative fuels. Best thing is that the torque characteristics of electric motors are ideally suited to heavier vehicles.

For transportation, finding alternative fuels for shipping and aviation should be a priority.

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Siimo van der fietspad
On 7/19/2022 at 10:39 PM, Skycaptain said:

Sorry to be late into this debate. Firstly a disclaimer, my job is driving based. I'll normally drive close to 100 000 Km a year, and add the same again in passengered travel.

 

Keep cars, and other personal mobility systems, but use either electricity or Hydrogen. I'm totally in agreement that we need to abolish fossil fuel consumption, but this can be done using technology that already exists. Whilst we're at it, ban the sale of fossil fuel burning trucks, buses ,trains because we can already use alternative fuels. Best thing is that the torque characteristics of electric motors are ideally suited to heavier vehicles.

For transportation, finding alternative fuels for shipping and aviation should be a priority.

Private transport isn't going anywhere soon, but combustion engines need to die as soon as possible - other than the ability to add extreme range quickly, they are basically obsolete and hilariously unreliable and inefficient. The need to charge EVs is probably going to have some regulating effect on people's car use, as even the fastest chargers require stopping to use at regular points, and most people will be charging on slower AC the majority of the time. Taxing mileage as a successor to combustion emissions would also be effective. The best model is bicycles and public transport in urban areas, with cars used for interurban and long journeys where they are at maximum efficiency.  In the current warm weather, with a light right foot I am currently getting several miles further than the official range of the car from 100% battery and something pushing 200 mpg equivalent.

 

EVs also should remove a lot of the triggers that cause frantic and aggressive driving - whilst the accelaration is brisk, there is no revving engine, loud exhaust or vibration to fuel sensation seeking, nor tiring gear changes. It would also be desirible to use soft autonomy to actually prevent the driver making dangerous manouvers - the car could prevent a dangerous overtake, tailgating or automaticaly enforce the speed limit.

 

Of course, with rising sea levels it may become more common to use boats in flooded coastal areas. I'm reading an interesting novel right now where New York is flooded but people still live in the skyscrapers which are watertight at the base and the city is a high-rise Venice. Boats and walking skybridges are the main means of transportation.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Siimo van der fietspad said:

whilst the accelaration is brisk, there is no revving engine,

I think this is one reason a lot of people will have a temper tantrum if they have to change to EV. Vroom vroooooooom is very important in some cultures. 

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3 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

I think this is one reason a lot of people will have a temper tantrum if they have to change to EV. Vroom vroooooooom is very important in some cultures. 

Doubtful:

 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42734/this-startup-will-give-your-silent-ev-v8-noises

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1136119_ev-and-hybrid-drivers-are-less-stressed-survey-finds

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Just what we need, noise added to cars just for the sake of noise. :P (and I don't mean for the sake of safety or anything useful)

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Exactly. That's why I said just for the sake of noise as opposed to for safety. :) 

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AspieAlly613

Because there's a conspiracy theory for everything:  I saw a conspiracy theory that Democrats' reluctance to drill isn't really about the environment but is about making it harder to travel, quelling a rebellion against the deep state.  SMH.

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22 hours ago, AspieAlly613 said:

Because there's a conspiracy theory for everything:  I saw a conspiracy theory that Democrats' reluctance to drill isn't really about the environment but is about making it harder to travel, quelling a rebellion against the deep state.  SMH.

Any more reaching and in the NBA you would get fouled for it.

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Siimo van der fietspad
On 7/21/2022 at 2:30 PM, Snao Cone said:

I think this is one reason a lot of people will have a temper tantrum if they have to change to EV. Vroom vroooooooom is very important in some cultures. 

Yes, I think there's a Not Just Bikes video about noise from different transport modes in which the commentator mocks those who like engine sounds as 'me like car go vroom vroom' from a man-child. It's amazing how noisy all the ICE cars around me are when waiting at the lights. Personally I really appreciate switching off the radio, fan and spaceship noise and rolling along in almost total silence, just a faint tyre and high-pitch electric sound.

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