A sexual person hating sexuality?

[BunnyK.]

Why can't I have the strength that people who commit suicide do?

I really have issues with this statement, and I really just have to let this rip.

It is NOT strength to commit suicide. Suicide is the weak option. Suicide is what you do when you're too afraid and too sick to do anything else.

You say you don't want to leave a mess for anyone to clean up. Well, guess what? No matter what you do, there will be a mess. Most likely a physical mess, and inevitably an emotional one.

My sister committed suicide, you know. It was close to 20 years ago now, and I was really little, so I can't say that I get too torn up about it - but on the other hand, there's my parents. They survived, but every year on her birthday and the day she died, I can see how sad they are STILL. They hardly talk about her, and when they do, I hear the pain in their voices. They'll never be completely over her death. THAT is what you'll leave behind you - pain, loss, things that never really heal.

Now, to some extent, you can't help it. Everyone dies, and their family will grieve...but honestly, I'm angry at my sister. Angry that she could do something so awful, to take herself away from her family and her son - I can't help but think that no matter how awful life can get, it's selfish to take your own life and leave everyone else behind, letting them know that you didn't care enough about them to stay.

I'm really not minimizing your pain. I know it's hard, and I know that actually getting help would be even harder. But suicide, like they say, is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and all it will do is hurt the ones you love.

[thylacine]

Chaku... don't, okay? Just DON'T.

[chaku]

I'm sorry everyone, but after spending the past 8 years wishing I could die I don't view suicide as a weakness anymore.

As far as hurting my family, I've done the best I can do for them. I've stayed here against my will for 8 years. I've given much more of myself than I feel I can give. At some point, enough will have to be enough.

Could you imagine if my mother lives until she is 80 years old? I would be 50 years old myself and still waiting for death. It is honestly not fair at all for me to have to stay that long. That would be another 27 years. :(

If you see no value and nothing good out of staying here on this planet, then for what reason do you stay? I can't stay here until I'm 50 years old spending the whole time hoping I will die. It is too painful. At some point I need to prioritize what "I" want. I've already given more than I ever wanted to and staying here to make everyone else happy isn't really an option I can take emotionally.

While I've been here I've picked up a few hobbies, for the past 8 years or so I've worked very hard on my music. I play guitar, bass, drums, and sing. I also am working on making a videogame. Those are the only things of any value to me in my life that seem to bring any pleasure as I hate almost everything else.

But, another aspect of that is my complete failure at becoming an artist. I couldn't write a good song to save my life and my singing voice has never been good. So, after many years of work I'm about ready to accept failure on that front and it brings more pain than happiness to try to create anything anymore.

As far as the things that I care about... No matter how badly I want to become a real artist and express myself musically I will always want to die much, much more. Because aside from my fantasies and creations (belief system, art) I hate existing in this world as a worthless animal very much.

I'm not really sure I'm interested in getting more help. Throughout the past 8 years I've been to quite a few counselers, been through group therapy, and made multiple trips to the mental hospital, but no matter how many times I explain my situation there is nothing anyone can do.

When someone simply hates reality there is nothing that can be done as far as I see it aside from murdering my identity with drugs. When faced with a choice to murder my identity in the name of conformity (drugs) and simply removing myself from this world by a choice made from my own identity (suicide) I find suicide much more appealing.

[thylacine]

Well... if you're not gonna be an artist, find a regular job and become good at it, then you won't be a failure. Right? It's worth a try, ain't it?

[Rin]

Everyone starts somewhere when it comes to art. I'm an artist and I started out with stick drawings like everyone else then I moved on to fatter things that were all mishapen and rubbish, then I moved on to something else and something else. Basically through practice and studying different methods and getting inspired by others. I'm still nowhere as good as alot of other people but you can't really compare yourself too much, just gotta study *why* you think they're 'better' and improve upon those aspects etc. Some people prefer to self-teach but others may benefit more from lessons, just gotta find what works for you and most of all, enjoy yourself. Being creative is also really good if you feel frustrated with life, just vent whatever emotions you have down into music or on paper or whatever and pass it on to others to appreciate and then something good can come out of those emotions. Post your work in various places also for critque and see what people feel you could improve upon (keep in mind though that art is very subjective so don't take everything everyone says to heart, everyone ahs a different opinion, just got to find a balance but the main thing is to just keep doing what you love) and just keep at it, everyone starts from scratch and have to keep chiseling things down until its all more refined just don't be too hard on yourself, any artist are their own worst critic... I know I'm my own worst critic anyway :D And as for being 'worthless' isn't it a bit unfair to yourself deem yourself unworthy? You seem to feel others in life should not be deemed unowrthy of existing for whatever reasons so I think you should try to practice those beliefs upon yourself. I don't see why you would consider yourself in such a way. Also I think looking at things within the bigger picture can be pretty overwhelming, like thinking "whats my purpose? what have I to offer? what am I to do with my life?" but taking things a little at a time and apprectaing the smaller things in life is the way to go really... even if its just the fact of going for a walk in the countryside and spotting a rainbow or coming across a bit of inspiring music or artwork or something, it all builds up just like when you earn money to build up real wealth you do it a penny at a time, building richness in life takes a penny at a time. And I'm not especially an optimist type person either but life has alot to offer even if we all forget that at times. Sorry if it soudns like I'm going on though, but anyway I wish you all the very best.

[chaku]

Well... if you're not gonna be an artist, find a regular job and become good at it, then you won't be a failure. Right? It's worth a try, ain't it?

There is nothing successful about doing something you hate for the rest of your life. And nothing successful about having others view you as a failure now and suddenly change their minds once you become "normal" like everyone else.

If someone views me as a failure now because I am disabled I want them to view me that way forever because I am the same person and have tried to live my life through kindness. But, since that is not how things work, that is yet another reason to never get a job.

The only real success I can find outside of art is death. That way I won't be taking my self worth from anybody. Staying here on this planet to please others is idiotic. Ultimately, at some point I have to do something for me.

[chaku]

Everyone starts somewhere when it comes to art. I'm an artist and I started out with stick drawings like everyone else then I moved on to fatter things that were all mishapen and rubbish, then I moved on to something else and something else. Basically through practice and studying different methods and getting inspired by others. I'm still nowhere as good as alot of other people but you can't really compare yourself too much, just gotta study *why* you think they're 'better' and improve upon those aspects etc. Some people prefer to self-teach but others may benefit more from lessons, just gotta find what works for you and most of all, enjoy yourself. Being creative is also really good if you feel frustrated with life, just vent whatever emotions you have down into music or on paper or whatever and pass it on to others to appreciate and then something good can come out of those emotions. Post your work in various places also for critque and see what people feel you could improve upon (keep in mind though that art is very subjective so don't take everything everyone says to heart, everyone ahs a different opinion, just got to find a balance but the main thing is to just keep doing what you love) and just keep at it, everyone starts from scratch and have to keep chiseling things down until its all more refined just don't be too hard on yourself, any artist are their own worst critic... I know I'm my own worst critic anyway :D And as for being 'worthless' isn't it a bit unfair to yourself deem yourself unworthy? You seem to feel others in life should not be deemed unowrthy of existing for whatever reasons so I think you should try to practice those beliefs upon yourself. I don't see why you would consider yourself in such a way. Also I think looking at things within the bigger picture can be pretty overwhelming, like thinking "whats my purpose? what have I to offer? what am I to do with my life?" but taking things a little at a time and apprectaing the smaller things in life is the way to go really... even if its just the fact of going for a walk in the countryside and spotting a rainbow or coming across a bit of inspiring music or artwork or something, it all builds up just like when you earn money to build up real wealth you do it a penny at a time, building richness in life takes a penny at a time. And I'm not especially an optimist type person either but life has alot to offer even if we all forget that at times. Sorry if it soudns like I'm going on though, but anyway I wish you all the very best.

I appreciate your encouragement but I've really been trying very hard over the past 8 years or so at my music and it just never clicked with me. I can play my instruments, but for a lot of reasons I can't seem to sing well enough or write good songs. The main issue I'm having is songwriting and singing are the main reasons why I like music... So continuing to push the technical side of things with all of my instruments seems kind of silly when I can't seem to make what seems like art to me with them.

I think maybe my voice is permanently too low to sound good. I seem to be stuck as a baritone and it just doesn't sound good with the kind of music I want to make. My biggest inspiration are the Beatles but I can't seem to even sing that high without getting a forced sound in my voice... Like I've gone to far. I don't really like low pitched singing because it simply doesn't sound very good to me most of the time, so no matter what I've tried it seems like I'm kind of stuck and can't make it sound good.

As far as the songwriting and lyric writing... I'm one of the worst lyricists I've ever heard outside of what is popular right now like Fergie, Pussycat dolls, and emo. Sometimes I'm astonished at how truly bad my lyrics are and can barely understand how I could come up with something so horrible. I'm not sure I've written one verse that was actually good no matter how much I've tried. It is amazing how bad I am at it.

So, to me, art is pretty much the only thing I enjoy while I am here. But, honestly, I only seem to enjoy "good art" and that is not the kind of art I make. :(

[Rin]

I'd like to help with regard to singing but I actually am pretty hopeless musically, I'm not very musically inclined it seems. Although I'd love to learn. Particularly I'd like to learn piano/keyboard or guitar someday :)

I don't know a whole lot about singing but I imagine like alot of things the main things would be about practice and technique I guess. All I know is basically just from overheard stuff about particular breathing and vocal exercises to kind of train the vocal chords up to feel more comfortable with doing notes normally out of reach without a little training. I realise they can be really dull to do but have you tried taking some professional lessons of some kind? It may point you in the right direction if you feel self-taught tactics aren't working out personally for you so far. Or maybe there's some guides online or books on the subject but on the spot feedback from a knowledgeable ear (teacher) is very valuable.

Have you tried posting lyrics and verses etc. on some places online? I have various forums and websites I visit for each of my different creative outputs to gain feedback from fellow artists on what I'm doing wrong or right. Criticism can be hard to take but as long as its constructive it can be pretty beneficial and when you're more confident you don't have to stay at those places if you don't want to. But the creative community can be pretty helpful to immerse yourself in (online or offline) to gain a few tips and helpful feedback. Again I'd like to help but I kind of dropped creative writing a long time ago so I wouldn't be able to give any advice.

As for the Beatles.. hmm I guess accent may lend a hand to that too (Liverpudlian accent I think... although I think alot of singers modify their accent/natural voice for foreign audiences not sure if they did any of that)? But people pick up accents over time and training. Well I don't really know biology that well to be able to tell if we're born with certain vocal dispositions though, I've never really thought about it. But I think it's possible to change the natural pitch of the voice over time. However also I think having your own unique style is a great thing too, and if yours is naturally low then I don't think thats such a bad thing, there's alot of artists I like with low voices that sing some very uplifting songs, pitch isnt the only thing :) For some singers, their low voice is a really nice attribute and people comment on that particularly.

[chaku]

I don't have anywhere else to say this but it is eating away at me. I am so tired of everyone telling me to get a job. How do they not understand that I want to die and getting a job is not going to help.

If it is this much of a problem that I don't have a job then please kill me. I am being completely honest. If it is that big of a deal that I don't have a job please end my life. It would satisfy both of us. It would be much better than torturing me by telling me to get a job when I am disabled and would help me very much.

[Rin]

Well personally, I'd love not to work. I haven't got a job yet but I'm in the unfortunate position most people in life are in whereby I have to work but if I had the option of not working I would definitely take it and just stick with my hobbies and having fun. I think most people would not work if they didn't have to, except for those that see their job as part of their life and embrace it as enjoyable. I'll be pursuing a career in the creative industry so I aim to enjoy my job and that will be a good thing in my life, although I don't doubt for a moment I will find it frustrating etc. regardless at times.

Maybe those people (or at least some of them) who are suggesting a job believe it may help you personally. Getting out and getting involved with tasks at work can take a persons mind off things and completing those tasks can be fulfilling, but only if you enjoy the job really. Any job does get boring though after awhile when it becomes routine but at that time you have to weigh up the pros and the cons of it and as long as you're personally getting something out of it for the most part, then the mundane stuff can pass quicker.

And of course there's the money! I got my first taster of real money from a job and it was pretty yummy and allowed me to fund my hobbies more and that can help a person to enjoy their time off work more if they have the freedom to purchase whatever they want to make their non-work goals easier. But it does at the end of the day have to be a job you can get some fun out of, like for you I guess it would be getting involved with the music or games industry somehow. I don't know where you're from but I'd love to get into the games industry however where I'm from makes that a bit tougher but at the end of the day if its the only thing you'd enjoy doing then you just gotta go for it and do what you can to get your foot in the door. I'm happy not working in the games industry though,just as long as I make enough money to fund my time away from work and live with a roof over my head etc. then thats enough for me. However on the same note, I also sorta refuse to work in anything thats not creative as I just don't feel fulfilled otherwise.

But it's your life, I'm not saying any of this in a "go get a job or else" kinda way, at the end of the day the important thing in life is to just enjoy it in whatever way you want so it certainly doesn't bother me if someone is in a position where they dont have to work and thats what they want to do and I doubt it really is that much of an issue for most people even if they imply that. Just to say that I often feel a job/work is pointless and frustrating but can also see the benefits it has to funding other stuff I want to do and if its something I also enjoy doing then its not as much of a waste of a time.

[chaku]

:( It never ends. I can see the futility of me talking on the internet. I looked back at some of my old posts on the other website I banned myself from and I can see for how long I've wanted to die. And can see all of the failure. The endless failure.

I tried so hard to learn how to sing, but I was given a horrible voice that doesn't sound like it should. I tried recording it again today and it is so awful. To get a remotely bareable sound I have to do so many things to try to change the sound. I don't think others have to try so hard because their voices don't suck.

I even tried singing lower like my voice naturally wants to be, but it is still awful. My best sounding voices are rip offs of David Bowie and Frank Sinatra. Of course, I don't even know how to rip them off correctly because I am not talented and have to re-learn how to sing every 5 days or so.

I could settle for something that didn't sound like trash. Why do I even bother? How many years of failure can someone suffer through before suicide? I'd think anyone would be fed up with this by this point. How many years do I have to fail? Until I die?

[Rin]

Maybe you're being too critical of yourself. Do you ever post any samples online for others to critique? There should be a number of forums communities or websites dedicated to the creation of music where a section is offered for critiques. Art in its many forms is subjective and you may be surprised, or if there are some negative comments then if the forum/website is well-run they should be constructive and give some tips if you feel you're struggling.

But so many artists are extremely over critical of their work (myself included)... I see other artists that label stuff as 'scrap/junk/rubbish' that I find really inspiring and beautiful so I think you should just get your stuff out there and take any criticism as constructive and be sure not to ignore the heartfelt compliments (dont focus on all the negatives). And then go on from there really.

I don't know if everyone who becomes 'successful' (successful can mean different things though, for some just the fact of enjoying what they do is enough of a success regardless of if the majority like what they do or just a small group) or even anyone is simply born with whatever it is they do or they just get a passion for something at a very early age and just dedicate a lot of time to it... I dont think I was born with any ability to draw so I could of said to myself all those years ago that I was born to fail at drawing but I got a consistent interest in drawing from a very early age, I guess when you're young also you're not as critical and harsh on yourself as when youre older too so I just kept on drawing even though it was crap stick figures with stumpy legs and animals that looked like they had been sent through an industrial masher and so on. But from keeping on I improved. Its taken me many many years really (and still of course make TONS of mistakes but I enjoy trying and some of the positive feedback so thats all I need). Some people may of only taken 2 years to surpass me but you cant keep looking at others and comparing yourself really as when it comes to art you just gotta do what you do. Sinatra and Beatles and all those probably had the same doubts as you at some point and compared themselves to some other solo artists or groups that had become 'successful' in the eyes of the majority but if what you personally enjoy doing is music then just enjoy it for what it is and keep doing it.

Best regards.

[Mark from the OCD board]

Chaku: Failure in whose eyes? Rin has some really good points.

Don't project society's false values onto yourself; don't internalize them. Society talks about making a lot of money, holding power over others, and having great sexual appeal as the marks of success--but that is not all life is.

What of someone who does not make a lot of money, does not hold a lot of power, and does not have many sexual conquests, yet has touched others' lives and made the world a better place for a small group of people? Many would call that person an idealist and a failure. On the other hand, I know that I would want to hug that person and be like him or her. Sure, I'd also like to make money, have power, and enjoy a lot of sex; I won't lie about about it. But those are not the things that determine my value--or yours.

You have value, but you don't see it because you listen to what others say instead of what you know inside. Many people have seen a kind, sensitive person in your posts. If they can see that in your writing, imagine what they will see in person.

And don't counter that with a list of your faults. We all have terrible faults. Love and friendship look beyond faults.

I, for one, am glad that you are an artist. Artists create for the sake of creation. (As a writer, I, too, am an artist.) It is wonderful when we get fame and fortune and a flock of fans with sexual interest in us... But that is not the reason we create art. That is icing on the cake. We create art mainly for ourselves and our own satisfaction.

[alexjohnc3]

I myself am an involuntary heterosexual and in the past I've identified as an antisexual, though I'm not sure what I should identify as now, which is actually how I found this thread (5th result in Google for "don't like sexuality").

That said, you don't need anything to be good about yourself to have a reason to live. If you die, that will mean just one fewer people who realize what you do and everything good that you've done during your life will be virtually meaningless. You've got to try to live in order to try your hardest to make the world a better place for yourself, people who are in a similar position as yourself, and everyone in general.

[Quick]

Well, when I am at a loss for words I usually revert to posting an appropriate song, so here ya go ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91euxMQ0Zyg

As Rin suggested about being critiqued by others, maybe you should try to record yourself singing this and let usor someone else critqueit for you. I'm sure your pain and emotions alone would make the song sound amazing! (I'm not saying that its not an amazing song already)

[thylacine]

"There is nothing successful about doing something you hate for the rest of your life." Lookit, lots of people hate their job. Does this make them a failure? NO! People work at jobs they hate to support their family, put their kids through college, pay the bills, and if they have a little left over they go out and have a few beers... And yah know what, they are not failures. People who work 9 to 5 are good people. Working people, my dear friend, are the backbone of society. If people did not work, society would fall apart. Society needs cops, firefighters, nurses, teachers, waitressses, mechanics, secretaries, paralegals, scientists, trash collectors, and yeah, society needs lawyers too... All these categories are JOBS my friend. Without these good people doing these jobs, society would not run.

When you are sick, you see a doctor or a nurse. If you want to learn stuff, you go to school where there are teachers. You want your car fixed, you see the mechanic. Where would any of us be without people who do these boring jobs?

Even the cleaning lady who empties wastebaskets and cleans toilets is not a failure because she supports herself and her family with her dead end boring job. The immigrant who mows your lawn also is not a failure because he came to a new country to work hard and send money home to help his family.

Yeah, some people have dull, meaningless jobs. But working people deserve society's gratitude, Chaku, because society needs working people. Who would build the roads, staff the hospitals, deliver your mail, cut your grass, etc. and blah-blah-blah...

I could probably go on and on... But the point I am trying to make is... there is nothing wrong with people who have regular jobs.

[chaku]

Maybe you're being too critical of yourself. Do you ever post any samples online for others to critique? There should be a number of forums communities or websites dedicated to the creation of music where a section is offered for critiques. Art in its many forms is subjective and you may be surprised, or if there are some negative comments then if the forum/website is well-run they should be constructive and give some tips if you feel you're struggling.

But so many artists are extremely over critical of their work (myself included)... I see other artists that label stuff as 'scrap/junk/rubbish' that I find really inspiring and beautiful so I think you should just get your stuff out there and take any criticism as constructive and be sure not to ignore the heartfelt compliments (dont focus on all the negatives). And then go on from there really.

I don't know if everyone who becomes 'successful' (successful can mean different things though, for some just the fact of enjoying what they do is enough of a success regardless of if the majority like what they do or just a small group) or even anyone is simply born with whatever it is they do or they just get a passion for something at a very early age and just dedicate a lot of time to it... I dont think I was born with any ability to draw so I could of said to myself all those years ago that I was born to fail at drawing but I got a consistent interest in drawing from a very early age, I guess when you're young also you're not as critical and harsh on yourself as when youre older too so I just kept on drawing even though it was crap stick figures with stumpy legs and animals that looked like they had been sent through an industrial masher and so on. But from keeping on I improved. Its taken me many many years really (and still of course make TONS of mistakes but I enjoy trying and some of the positive feedback so thats all I need). Some people may of only taken 2 years to surpass me but you cant keep looking at others and comparing yourself really as when it comes to art you just gotta do what you do. Sinatra and Beatles and all those probably had the same doubts as you at some point and compared themselves to some other solo artists or groups that had become 'successful' in the eyes of the majority but if what you personally enjoy doing is music then just enjoy it for what it is and keep doing it.

Best regards.

I have recording software so I know what I sound like. I genuinely don't believe I am too critical of myself as it really doesn't sound good at all. But, we'll see because in spite of my depression I've never stopped playing music.

[chaku]

Chaku: Failure in whose eyes? Rin has some really good points.

Don't project society's false values onto yourself; don't internalize them. Society talks about making a lot of money, holding power over others, and having great sexual appeal as the marks of success--but that is not all life is.

What of someone who does not make a lot of money, does not hold a lot of power, and does not have many sexual conquests, yet has touched others' lives and made the world a better place for a small group of people? Many would call that person an idealist and a failure. On the other hand, I know that I would want to hug that person and be like him or her. Sure, I'd also like to make money, have power, and enjoy a lot of sex; I won't lie about about it. But those are not the things that determine my value--or yours.

You have value, but you don't see it because you listen to what others say instead of what you know inside. Many people have seen a kind, sensitive person in your posts. If they can see that in your writing, imagine what they will see in person.

And don't counter that with a list of your faults. We all have terrible faults. Love and friendship look beyond faults.

I, for one, am glad that you are an artist. Artists create for the sake of creation. (As a writer, I, too, am an artist.) It is wonderful when we get fame and fortune and a flock of fans with sexual interest in us... But that is not the reason we create art. That is icing on the cake. We create art mainly for ourselves and our own satisfaction.

I wouldn't want very much to be a rock star. It seems rock stars experience a very low form of humanity where people are willing to have sex with them because of the amount of money they make and their social status. It would make me sick to be in that position.

I see my position as a more honest assessment of human worth... Without money, talent, or social status. The way I am treated is the truth about the worth of human life. And when taking the experiences of rock stars and comparing them to my own it gives you a good view of humanity.

[chaku]

I myself am an involuntary heterosexual and in the past I've identified as an antisexual, though I'm not sure what I should identify as now, which is actually how I found this thread (5th result in Google for "don't like sexuality").

That said, you don't need anything to be good about yourself to have a reason to live. If you die, that will mean just one fewer people who realize what you do and everything good that you've done during your life will be virtually meaningless. You've got to try to live in order to try your hardest to make the world a better place for yourself, people who are in a similar position as yourself, and everyone in general.

I'm not sure, we'll see what happens. But, I've been doing a little better over the past couple of days because I am refusing to think about "becoming normal..." In other words getting a job.

That has been the only way I've been able to survive, is by avoiding this.

[chaku]

Well, when I am at a loss for words I usually revert to posting an appropriate song, so here ya go ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91euxMQ0Zyg

As Rin suggested about being critiqued by others, maybe you should try to record yourself singing this and let usor someone else critqueit for you. I'm sure your pain and emotions alone would make the song sound amazing! (I'm not saying that its not an amazing song already)

Would be nice if I could sing the song. Unfortunately Michael Stipe's voice is a bit out of my range. If I tune down a half step I can pull it off a bit better.

[chaku]

"There is nothing successful about doing something you hate for the rest of your life." Lookit, lots of people hate their job. Does this make them a failure? NO! People work at jobs they hate to support their family, put their kids through college, pay the bills, and if they have a little left over they go out and have a few beers... And yah know what, they are not failures. People who work 9 to 5 are good people. Working people, my dear friend, are the backbone of society. If people did not work, society would fall apart. Society needs cops, firefighters, nurses, teachers, waitressses, mechanics, secretaries, paralegals, scientists, trash collectors, and yeah, society needs lawyers too... All these categories are JOBS my friend. Without these good people doing these jobs, society would not run.

When you are sick, you see a doctor or a nurse. If you want to learn stuff, you go to school where there are teachers. You want your car fixed, you see the mechanic. Where would any of us be without people who do these boring jobs?

Even the cleaning lady who empties wastebaskets and cleans toilets is not a failure because she supports herself and her family with her dead end boring job. The immigrant who mows your lawn also is not a failure because he came to a new country to work hard and send money home to help his family.

Yeah, some people have dull, meaningless jobs. But working people deserve society's gratitude, Chaku, because society needs working people. Who would build the roads, staff the hospitals, deliver your mail, cut your grass, etc. and blah-blah-blah...

I could probably go on and on... But the point I am trying to make is... there is nothing wrong with people who have regular jobs.

I think you are misunderstanding me. There is nothing successful about working a job you hate when you want to die because of it. You can't dispute that. Yes, I appreciate people who work. But they are alive. I would not be.

I remember when we had "career day" in school and everyone else was talking about how they were going to be doctors, lawyers, and policemen. I was different. I made a promise to myself then that I would kill myself when I turned 18. I still wish I had but it didn't turn out that way. So now people are telling me to stay and get a job. For me, it is one or the other.

[chaku]

Anyway, I've been doing a bit better and haven't banged my head against the wall or hurt myself in other ways for a few days and wanted to thank everyone for being so supportive on this site. I know Aven is not a suicide support forum but you have been very kind to me and I think you have helped me hold on. Thank you.

Luckily for me, I got back into the previous site I banned myself from and am not feeling quite as isolated now so I shouldn't have to rely upon Aven as my only contact with the outside world now.

The only thing more I can say right now is that "get a job" is NOT anything I haven't heard 50,000 times before. If there wasn't a serious problem with me doing that, do you not think by now I would have? It is not something that I am ok with. I like to be able to hide in my home and feel safe and comfortable. I am not comfortable with that.

One of the few things that makes me consistently suicidal is that phrase... That topic. So I've decided I'm going to refuse to think about it anymore. It is not worth thinking about because it just makes me more sick.

[thylacine]

Yeah... yeah, okay Chaku, whatever, so then don't get a job. But whatever you do, don't kill yourself, man, okay? We just don't want you to die, okay?

[Mark from the OCD board]

I wouldn't want very much to be a rock star. It seems rock stars experience a very low form of humanity where people are willing to have sex with them because of the amount of money they make and their social status. It would make me sick to be in that position.

I see my position as a more honest assessment of human worth... Without money, talent, or social status. The way I am treated is the truth about the worth of human life. And when taking the experiences of rock stars and comparing them to my own it gives you a good view of humanity.

You're a true artist, bro. That's something to be proud of. :)

[M51]

I'm glad you are feeling better, Chaku!

[chaku]

Thank you all, I have been feeling a bit better over the past few days. I need to learn not to go to the hot box section of this site though because it is very scary for me to hear about people taking my disability away to kill me. :(

[ChemiKaze]

I believe whether the concept of beauty is driven by the media or by evolution it is evil either way.

I don't think I will ever understand the value of believing another person to be worth less because of their appearance. Certainly, the KKK believed that, but so does anyone who believes ugly people don't deserve an equal opportunity to all relationships. Why would looking a certain way ever change what someone deserves as a person?

As for me, I've never been in a sexual relationship (I've had mental health problems that would have made it very un-likely someone would accept me in one even before I even formed my beliefs). I'm in a position because I have no money, no job, and am not very physically attractive that people simply do view me as less most of the time.

I'm tired of fighting my sexuality and disagreeing with it. I've been suicidal for many years now. I hate existing as an animal without morality. I would prefer if I could die at this point as it is not really worth it to continue living in this world, but I'd feel guilty about hurting my family so I'm stuck here.

Chaku: There are times when I feel like dying or wish I was dead too... in fact I was almost killed my a drunk/high/depressed hit and runner and my right leg is paralyzed and I just found out that I have temporary facial paralysis... ouch! But I like to think I have a racer's mentality... to keep on fighting even when all is down and broken.. to pick up my motorcycle and ride on it again.. while I don't have money, I am a graduate student finishing my studies so I don't know what is ahead of me..

While I find it easier for myself to be attracted towards people of all races.. I find that I enjoy moderate beauty... not too fat nor too thin means a proper or moderate diet... not too pimply nor too much powder means a balance between vainity and lack of personal hygiene.. what do you think?

[ChemiKaze]

You are right that many people are shallow, and look down upon ugly people, especially in high school... but hopefully, at some point in time, most people grow up and see what is really inside of people and learn to like people for themselves...

Actually, I should add that my prob is that I'm pretty... and when a woman is pretty no one thinks of her as intelligent or creative or educated... I am sooooo sick of hearing, "What, you've been to college?"

Also, I like old cars and restored a nice old Buick... I am sick of hearing, "Your husband is nice to let you drive his classic car." I am single, I restored that car with my hard earned money, and got my own hands dirty... I tell them it's mine and "it's got a 350 with a 2 barrel carburetor and a limited slip differential," "Wow, how do you know all that stuff?" Cuz it's mine, duh! Sad that no one can see an attractive lady as being anything but a fluff-head. (Interesting fact, other people, mostly men but some women, who own classic cars, always seem to recognize right away this car is MINE, and treat me like a sister, the guys who drive Hyundais are the ones who treat me like crap! I don't know... old car people recognize their own! They are a unique tribe with its own language and customs... )

I am a super sports bike motorcycle guy.. mainly into motorsports racing.. our crowds of people are a niche and you are correct as most people in your niche will treat you as a friend first.. it is the common interest that draws you guys together to enjoy another form of beauty.. :)

[ChemiKaze]

Hey Mark, I do appreciate you trying to look at my perspective as well so we don't keep an endless circle of debate. I've looked at your perspective too, and I am happy you are following your beliefs.

So yes, I do believe it is evil to treat ugly people less, but I'm also a bitterly depressed and suicidal person. I have this problem with hating this world and wanting to leave it.

Maybe, I can cope with my beliefs and my perception, but it has seemed like I can't in the past. I just know I won't change them to cope with my surroundings and will follow my truths wherever they take me.

At this point, I'm trying to make my life less miserable somehow. Nearly every thought has become suicidal because I don't think there is anything that can make me happy in this world.

I don't think those who have not felt loneliness, truly understand it. And how much it hurts. I've felt alone for a very long time now. There isn't anyone to share my world view with. I can't really have relationships because I'm too evil to have a moral one.

interesting point there chaku... i do find myself treating anyone fat or thin ugly or pretty the same... i will even tolerate their insensitivities to a certain degree but if they attitudes lack common courtesy or basic manners... then i will slip to the side and stop interacting with them... however, i only feel attracted to people with the physical appearance i mentioned above... what attracts me more to another person is their character or personality.

[thylacine]

Yeah... that's right. Car people have their own language & culture. It's like being a Trekkie, except you get your hands dirty.