I need help. Desperately.

[Chiaroscuro]

I realize this is off-topic, but why do people use quotation marks as if they're italics or something? Our friend John has an "employee"... is he not really an employee? Is he an employee, but not an employee?

And the "employee" may have "posted" comments... He didn't really post them? He posted them, but it wasn't actually what you'd call posting?

I know, i know, nitpicking. It's a "pet peeve" of mine. It's not really a pet peeve, but it's kind of like one

Also, John, It's only sad to YOU that your "employee" was "posting" here during work hours. I assume that's against the rules at your company, but I don't see what purpose making a public issue of it serves unless this is your way of punishing aEunuch4U. Why, for example, would we send "Any and all records of communications and/or "postings"" to you? We're not also your "employees", hunting through this site for examples of your wayward employees private thoughts.

I find your post to be basically petty and mean-spirited. My sympathies lie with Mr. Eunuch.

-Chiaroscuro

[silvergirl]

I think a sexual person and an asexual person having a relationship is like a gay person and a straight person entering into a relationship. Little prospect of success in the long term.

[jipz]

i've recieved mail from this man and he really seems to know what he's talking about! he seems harmless and helpful if you ask me. he was never out of line and make alot of sence!

[jipz]

I think a sexual person and an asexual person having a relationship is like a gay person and a straight person entering into a relationship. Little prospect of success in the long term.

i think you might be right unfortunatly!! i recently found out that this is actually whats wrong with my husband. and has caused an enormous wedge between us, i was angry but realized that he didnt really know what it was years ago. i've told him that our marriage feels like a gay man who gets married and takes 20 years of his wifes life and two children then comes out of the closet! i know he's not gay but it feels like the same thing. im trying to look at things differently now. everyone has problems in there marriages. some woman get beat up by drunk husbands, some husbands cheat, some live in a filthy house and the wives wont clean or cook, some are addicted to drugs, some are financially ruined....so this is my problem and it seems minor anymore. my husband works hard and provides and he's home every night with me and our kids. we take nice vacations every year with our children. we have a nice home and new cars, what could be so bad. we really have alot compared to some. im learning as much about this as i can so that i can hopefully cope alittle more. i have a friend who's husband refues to work, she dont clean her house and they dont have much of anything and after spending 5 minutes at her house looking at her life and her nasty husband i cant wait to run home to my house and into my spouces arms regardless what our little problem may be. i know it dont seem little sometimes but look around at other people. no matter how they look on the outside you dont know what goes on behind they're door. finding this site was a great thing for me!

[maufry]

jipz, your last post gives me hope. I think part of the reason that a lot of us (asexuals) just give up on ever having a relationship with a sexual is b/c it seems to be such a huge problem for the sexual - but like you said, it's just one issue. There are a LOT of issues people can have in relationships, and every relationship has its own issues. Sex is just another issue to add to the list, is all. It seems to silly for people to split up over just one issue. Now, if it were one of many, that would be one thing, but the only real issue being sex? It seems so petty to us. At least, it does to me.

Actually, this brings up a comparison in my head. I'm going to use Christopher Reeve as an example, just b/c he's a well-known example. He was in a devastating accident that left him completely unable to have sex anymore. Ever. But his wife loved him enough to stay by his side. So why is an asexual's inability to have sex any different than a paralyzed person's inability to have sex? I think everyone would agree that if Reeve's wife had left him after the accident she'd be a complete and total bitch. No one would ever have any respect for her. So why is a S/A relationship any different? Is it just b/c asexuality isn't a disorder? B/c if so, that doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, when people get old they stop having sex. I can guarantee you my grandparents don't do it anymore - whether or not they want to is not something I don't want to think about, I just know that Grandma's body is too old to handle it, lol. But you don't see them splitting up b/c they can't share that anymore. They don't have these huge emotional problems just b/c they can't have sex - even though Grandpa's healthy enough that he could still want it. (It's honestly not something I want to picture, though, lol.) I just don't get it.

[BunnyK.]

jipz, your last post gives me hope. I think part of the reason that a lot of us (asexuals) just give up on ever having a relationship with a sexual is b/c it seems to be such a huge problem for the sexual - but like you said, it's just one issue. There are a LOT of issues people can have in relationships, and every relationship has its own issues. Sex is just another issue to add to the list, is all. It seems to silly for people to split up over just one issue. Now, if it were one of many, that would be one thing, but the only real issue being sex? It seems so petty to us. At least, it does to me.

It may just be one issue, but *most* issues that a relationship has don't require one of the other person to give up part of themself. Things like religion, which also require that one person give up on something hugely important to them, also tend to cause breakups. It's one issue, but a huge one.

I'm not sure why you persist in thinking it's petty after sexuals have told you how it makes them feel to stay in relationships without sex. Why would you want someone to stay in a relationship where they constantly have to work at feeling loved, work at not going outside the boundaries, work at not being depressed, feeling unattrative, etc? Why is it "petty" to leave a relationship that causes your whole world to look grayer, less playful, less fun? It's not just like "Oh, you never pick up your socks, and you leave things until the last minute and it drives me crazy". It's not something easy.

There are sexuals out there who can deal with it, and more power to them, but I'd love to see a little less condemnation of those who can't, please.

Actually, this brings up a comparison in my head. I'm going to use Christopher Reeve as an example, just b/c he's a well-known example. He was in a devastating accident that left him completely unable to have sex anymore. Ever. But his wife loved him enough to stay by his side. So why is an asexual's inability to have sex any different than a paralyzed person's inability to have sex? I think everyone would agree that if Reeve's wife had left him after the accident she'd be a complete and total bitch. No one would ever have any respect for her. So why is a S/A relationship any different? Is it just b/c asexuality isn't a disorder? B/c if so, that doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, when people get old they stop having sex. I can guarantee you my grandparents don't do it anymore - whether or not they want to is not something I don't want to think about, I just know that Grandma's body is too old to handle it, lol. But you don't see them splitting up b/c they can't share that anymore. They don't have these huge emotional problems just b/c they can't have sex - even though Grandpa's healthy enough that he could still want it. (It's honestly not something I want to picture, though, lol.) I just don't get it.

A) Yes, old people usually stop wanting sex eventually. So what are you saying, that because at age 70 I won't want sex anymore, that I should accept a sexless relationship at age 25? :roll:

B) As far as people in accidents go - yes, there's a huge difference between having an illness/injury that keeps you from having sex, and just not wanting it. It makes a huge difference to me when I know that my boyfriend *wants* sex and is just too tired, rather than just thinking he doesn't want it at all. And if he ever got in a disabling accident, of course I'd stay with him. On the other hand, I hope he'd be considerate enough to give me permission to go outside of the relationship for sex if he was physically unable. If I were disabled, I wouldn't expect my boyfriend to never have sex again. I'd love for him to stay with me, but I wouldn't be opposed to him seeking out people to satisfy him, if I couldn't do it myself.

An asexual, though, just plain doesn't want sex to start with. That to me would be more upsetting than wanting to and not being able to - intention makes a huge difference. An asexual also doesn't need someone to help them through a trauma, nor am I going to already be in love with an asexual - whereas if I were married to someone who later became disabled I'd already have built a life with them.

[Chiaroscuro]

There are a LOT of issues people can have in relationships, and every relationship has its own issues. Sex is just another issue to add to the list, is all. It seems to silly for people to split up over just one issue. Now, if it were one of many, that would be one thing, but the only real issue being sex? It seems so petty to us. At least, it does to me.

Bunny says it well, I'm just going to toss in my ¢2. Sex is not just another issue to add to the list. I love opera. My wife hates opera, so I go to the opera with my friend Jeff. I love sex. My wife hates sex, so I go have sex with my friend Lucy.

See the difference? As long as we live in a society in which sex outside of a monogamous relationship is "cheating", lack of sex is a deal-breaker for most people under 70.

And as for the "I lost my vagina in a car accident, why would you leave me?" argument, I would love to have my wife desire me, even sans vagina. There are a lot of ways to be intimate that don't involve intercourse. Again, you're confusing "the act" with sexuality as a whole.

-Chiaroscuro

[maufry]

A) Yes, old people usually stop wanting sex eventually. So what are you saying, that because at age 70 I won't want sex anymore, that I should accept a sexless relationship at age 25? :roll:

I'm just wondering why it's not considered a problem when one old person loses the desire and/or ability before the other does. It's the same issue, the ages are just different, but old people don't split up just b/c one person doesn't want to do it anymore. Sure, the other one will probably lose the desire/ability to soon as well, but if they haven't yet, then why isn't that such a huge problem?

Sex is not just another issue to add to the list. I love opera. My wife hates opera, so I go to the opera with my friend Jeff. I love sex. My wife hates sex, so I go have sex with my friend Lucy.

See the difference?

Actually, I don't. I understand that sexuals would, but I don't. I mean sure, if you actually had feelings for Lucy and I was your wife, then yeah, I'd have a big problem. But if you're just friends, and I trusted you enough that you were just friends, then what would I care? It's just sex.

There are a lot of ways to be intimate that don't involve intercourse.

EXACTLY!!! This is EXACTLY my point. Intimacy is, to me, not a sexual thing at all. Sure, sexuals see sex as intimate, I get that. But there are so many other things that are as well, why is the orgasm part such a big deal? Now, if there's a huge disconnect b/t how two people define intimacy, then sure, I can see how that might be a problem. If I don't like physical contact at all but find deep conversations with my guy to be extremely intimate, and my guy thinks that cuddling up and holding each other is intimate, then that might be an issue, even if we're both A. Although, honestly, I have been in similar situations before and it wasn't really a big deal. One of my exes hated physical contact if it wasn't sex or foreplay, whereas I'm a big cuddler/handholder/backrubber. It was hard at first, b/c I took his rebuffs personally, like he didn't want to be intimate with me. And he thought I was too smothering b/c I was always trying to hold him and stuff. But once we actually talked about it, I realized that he found other things to be intimate instead, and those things he did want to do with me. And he realized that my attempts to be close to him were just that - I wasn't trying to possess him or anything like that. And once we discussed that, we were perfectly fine. Did I miss the physical contact? Well, sure, a little. But it wasn't really that big a deal to me, b/c once I knew how his brain worked I could see that he did care for me. We just had to learn how each other worked and find ways that we both understood to express our feelings for each other.

I guess that's why I don't get the whole problem with no sex. If it's just an intimacy thing, then that can be dealt with. Like my ex and I - I didn't feel horribly ugly and unwanted every time I felt the urge to cuddle yet knew that I couldn't. As long as he was still doing the things that I knew were meaningful for him, then I knew he cared about me. For instance, every so often he'd send me one of those silly ecards for no reason. For him, that was a show of intimacy. My willingness to give him his physical space was one of my ways of showing him that I cared. Sure, I felt a physical urge to be near him every once in awhile, but big deal. I knew that to be in a relationship with him was no cuddling. I liked him enough that it didn't bother me. To give him credit, he would - very rarely - give me a brief hug or something if he knew I was feeling down. But I could tell he didn't like it, so I never asked for one or tried to prolong the contact any longer than he was willing to offer it. And to be honest, even if it did bother me I wouldn't have had any right to complain about it, since the issue had been discussed and I had chosen to be in the relationship. It wasn't like anyone was forcing me to stay in a situation I didn't like.

I guess that's another reason I have such a big problem with the whole thing. If there's an issue I need to discuss with my SO, we discuss it. We then either take action, or we don't. Once the issue is resolved, one way or the other, neither of us have the right to complain anymore. To oversimplify things, I'll give an example. Say I can't stand the fact that my boyfriend leaves the toilet seat up all the time. We discuss the issue. He says that he's just going to leave the thing up, whether I like it or not, and that's just the way it is. Leaving aside the question of whether or not that's a fair response, I know that I have two choices: I can stay with him and deal with having the toilet seat up all the time, or I can decide that the situation is intolerable and leave. If I choose to stay, then I am doing so knowing full well that staying means that I'll have to deal with having the toilet seat up all the time. If I've chosen of my own free will to deal with those set of circumstances, then I no longer have the right to complain about my boyfriend leaving the toilet seat up. If it's such a huge problem that I have to complain about it all the time, then maybe I made the wrong decision by staying. Now, obviously no one's going to split up over a toilet seat, I'm just using it to illustrate my point. As far as I know, my most recent ex never complained about not getting any. Not to me, anyways. Once I realized I was A, we talked about it and he knew full well that I wasn't going to be putting out. From that point on, he chose to be in a sexless relationship, therefore he had no right to complain about not getting any. He was perfectly free to change his mind and extract himself from the relationship when he decided he couldn't take it anymore - which is exactly what he did. It's like going to Florida in the summer for a vacation and whining that it's hot. Well what do you expect, it's Florida!! You chose to go there! Either deal with it, or go home. I dunno, that's just my philosophy, anyways.

[maufry]

I would love to have my wife desire me, even sans vagina.

Oh, and just b/c she doesn't show desire in ways you don't recognize doesn't mean that she doesn't desire you. Which was the point I was trying to make above. Obviously, I don't know anything about your current situation, so I don't know if there's a real emotional dissconnect b/t you and your wife or not. But assuming that there's not, it's quite possible she's trying to show you how much she values you, you just can't see it b/c it's a different language, so to speak. (For example - I forget which country it is, but in some country or other the thumbs up sign is equivalent to us flipping someone off. If I went over there and gave the thumbs up sign, they'd think I was being incredibly rude and repulsive, when really I was just trying to show my appreciation.) But like I said, I don't know specifics, so I could be wrong.

[Sphinx]

I'll be reiterating a few points, but these are my thoughts as a sexual guy in a wonderful relationship with an asexual girl:

pumpkino:

Now, i could go with out for a while and be fine with sex every week , but i cant go on feeling unattractive, unwanted, rejected and all the like.

You must understand that an asexual not wanting with sex with you hinges on the "not wanting sex" part, not the "with you" part. In my position, I fully understand that such a distinction could, to put it lightly, take a while to get used to.

But, that distinction must be made (if what I said indeed applies to your husband), else it's a gross miscommunication, where he may think you're attractive and want you with him (sans sex, which is a general apathy/distaste), and you may think that he doesn't want lots of sex because you're unattractive.

Chiaroscuro:

Boiling it all down, the only way for a "mixed" couple to live happily is for one of them to behave in a way that's intolerable to them.

AHEM. As a sexual male with a pretty-far-from-low libido, I think my relationship with my asexual relationship is proceeding swimmingly. We compromise, which in your case may be intolerable, but is not universally so.

jipz:

he had sex with me a few times just to keep me quiet for a period and allowed me to get pregnant ''i think'' because it might take my mind off of wanting sex. i've been asking him for years why he doesent want to have sex with me, all get is '' i dont know''. i thought it was me. i blamed myself, beat myself up, become depressed and had to be put on medication. he was never honest with me from the start or i wouldnt have stayed. i have been a stay at home mother now most of our marriage and im very dependent on him now which is what i think he wanted. financially im stuck!!! my husband allowed me to think that he was just impotant, i took him to specialist and he took errection medication but still never had that ''drive'' that comes natural. he can go forever and never think about it or want it. he's not effectionate for fear that i might want more. it has ruined my life, my selfesteem and my self confidence. i found this website and felt like someone kicked me. everyones stories are just like my life and i discovered whats actually wrong with him. all i think about now is '' god if only i had seen the signs when i met him''!! i would never had done this to myself if i has only known. im 41 now and i want out of this mess..... soooo if you have a chance to move on........by all means love yourself enough to do it!!

Dont' be so quick to assume that your husband is maliciously hiding his asexuality from you. Many, many asexuals aren't aware of their orientation. Of those who are aware, many are scared s---less of "coming out." When my girlfriend, before we got together, came out to me, she was literally shaking like a leaf for three hours.

I understand that once you think the glove fits, then you must naturally think that your husband (having lived his orientation for decades) must already know and be knowingly hiding it from you. Often, that simply isn't the case.

I do sympathize with the hurt it's caused you, but just don't be so quick to jump down his throat.

you will find love somewhere else with someone that wants to RETURN IT!!!!!

Even as a sexual with asexual sympathies, I find this rather insulting. You're on an asexuality forum and make a statement with the strong implication that love = sex? Umm... oookay.

I've found that a lot of asexuals (those who tolerate the following) find hugs and cuddling to be very intimate and loving. Think of those as possibly an emotional replacement for sex.

i have given him this website but he dont show alot of interest in reading it unless he's reading it while im not here.

20 years ago, if you showed an apparently gay man a homosexuality pamphlet with the suggestion that he might be gay, would you absolutely expect to devour the information on sight? My girlfriend was on AVEN for weeks before she came around to the idea that she could actually be asexual, and months before she got up the courage to tell anyone. Its discovery process is just like homosexuality, just more obscure, less publicized, and more socially ostracized.

i had his back no matter what, however when i cried or felt lonely or need reassured that everything was ok...he walked away from me because he knew why i was feeling that way and didnt want to talk about it. he turned his back on me when at times all i needed was a hug. this one problem....was the only problem we ever had but it caused so many more problems along the way. i know that i sound angry but its only because i needed something to replace my tears. i've never in my life felt so neglected or detatched from someone as i do with him.

This part, I'm not going to try to explain as a misunderstanding. There, he's just being uncivilized, esp. given how long you've been together.

Chiaroscuro:

So giving my wife space really just solves the issue for her, because now she can ignore that there IS an issue. Our marriage is the perfect marriage for her. Stripped down to its core, what you're advocating is that the sexual half of the relationship either shuts up or leaves.

That's not what we're advocating at all. TALK to her about it. Bring it up as an explicit issue that isn't going to be resolved by mutual avoidance or sleeping in the living room.

jipz:

WOW YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! i needed someone to put it like that because its true... the sexual for some reason is supposed to be the only understanding one. i need my husband to have some for me.

This isn't generally true, not by a long shot, judging from my time on AVEN. I understand that your husband may be like this, but please don't generalize that to saying that all asexuals become immutable celibates when they realize their orientation.

Chiaroscuro:

a recently asexual-ized wife,

This makes me question whether she's asexual or simply in a ultr-low-libido hormonal phase. Every asexual I've talked to has had no tapering of libido. Those who are asexual have been that way (even before finding out what it was) for as long as they can remember.

There are a lot of ways to be intimate that don't involve intercourse. Again, you're confusing "the act" with sexuality as a whole.

maufry hit the nail on the head: you're confusing "intimacy" with "sexuality."

Asexuals simply have one fewer way to be intimate.

[M51]

Sex is not just another issue to add to the list. I love opera. My wife hates opera, so I go to the opera with my friend Jeff. I love sex. My wife hates sex, so I go have sex with my friend Lucy.

See the difference?

More and more and more, as I grow comfortable with being asexual, and as I realize that maybe society's ideas and rituals surrounding sex are really just silly, I don't see a difference.

But sunset might be a little different. I guess it is still debatable about whether she was always asexual and just better able to deal with sex before, or always sexual and just recently her issues surrounding sex/intimacy started surfacing? But if she is "naturally" sexual with intimacy issues, it most likely means she is subject to the sexual conditioning that says sex outside of marriage is cheating, which means she WILL see the difference, and continue seeing the difference, and you will not be given the blessing to have sex with Lucy, as you said. If she is "naturally" asexual, perhaps she will eventually get to the point I am at where I don't understand why a single physical act should have the power to undermine an entire relationship. I dunno, though. You've got a rough case, Chiaro. As always, my sympathies.

[Chiaroscuro]

But sunset might be a little different. I guess it is still debatable about whether she was always asexual and just better able to deal with sex before' date=' or always sexual and just recently her issues surrounding sex/intimacy started surfacing? But if she is "naturally" sexual with intimacy issues' date=' it most likely means she is subject to the sexual conditioning that says sex outside of marriage is cheating, which means she WILL see the difference, and continue seeing the difference, and you will not be given the blessing to have sex with Lucy, as you said. If she is "naturally" asexual, perhaps she will eventually get to the point I am at where I don't understand why a single physical act should have the power to undermine an entire relationship. I dunno, though. You've got a rough case, Chiaro. As always, my sympathies.[/quote'']

Sunset is very clearly NOT an asexual, i'm coming to discover. She's two people in one body. Person one is sexual. Person two fears sexuality, intimacy and anything to do with them. Person two is dominant 99% of the time.

But Person one is very jealous, in the classical sense. So this discussion about whether or not a "true" asexual would be okay with their sexual partner going outside the relationship to share sex with a good friend... that doesn't apply to my situation. It's a fascinating discussion though :)

-Chiaroscuro

[hopeforthefuture]

I am so happy to find this site. I knew other people had this sort of problem but I never thought that they could help each other.

So, I have read a few opinions stating that such a relationship can work. (sexual guy with non-sexual wife - note I don't say a-sexual because I am not sure if she is really asexual she is but for some reason she hasn't wanted to have sex for the last 16 of the 28 years of our marriage - let's not debate her status - at least for now) So I have also read many descriptions in this forum on how nearly impossible it can be to work things out. But here is what I want to know:

For those of you who ARE managing to cope in a difficult sexual/asexual relationship what are some of the compromises you have made with each other to make it work. What have each of you done to get along and stay sane. What I am anxious to hear are ideas that we might discuss and consider. Maybe just discussing things that won't work for us will give us insight on some strategies that will work so please include things that have worked for you even if you doubt if they would work for anyone else.

I sense that this is a creative bunch and the care, understanding and sympathy you show for your spouses who are different is heart warming and truly encouraging. Help me understand some things that have worked to allow a sexual and asexual survive in a relationship together.

[Chiaroscuro]

Hi Hope, Welcome.

I haven't found any clear-cut answers to the A/S divide. The biggest thing I've benefitted from is the realization that all i can really control in my marriage is myself. I can't MAKE my wife do, feel or think any differently than she does. Beyond making my own needs clear, her behavior is out of my hands. What I can work on is the way I act, feel and think about the world. As long as I see my happiness as conditional on my wife's behavior, I feel unhappy and out of control. I'm beginning to realize how much I'm bringing to the table, and focusing on getting my own house in order. It's not perfect, but it is something I can actually grapple with and feel like I have a measure of control over.

That doesn't mean that our problems have disappeared. Not at all. I still grieve and feel hopeless at times. Something that has really helped both of us is therapy: both individual and couples therapy. I can't talk to my wife about our sexual issues... it makes her defensive and can trigger an aggressive, sometimes cruel, reaction. So I talk to my therapist. I can't stress how important that is. Couples therapy is new to us. Sunset (my wife), was scared to go for a long time, but agreed to start a month ago. It's been an amazing experience.

As far as day-to-day functioning, just try to be kind to one another. It isn't easy, there's a lot of hurt and anger around the divide. Aven can help you understand the nature of your wife's orientation... help you to not take it personally. In my case, I rarely touch my wife, and I sleep apart from her. It helps both of us cope with the tension. We love each other in the ways available to us.

That said, we are on a three-year track to separation, unless something profound happens in our relationship (it could... it's amazing how your outlook can change over time, but I don't put the odds much higher than 50/50). So this isn't a how-to guide to making your A/S relationship blissful, it's about managing your pain and disappointment over the short term, and maintaining a measure of control over your life.

Good luck. Hugs,

-Chiaroscuro

[hopeforthefuture]

Thank you for your very kind reply. I realize that in this life you cannot control what others think or do or say. You are lucky if you can simply control your own responses and that is enough of a challenge for most of us.

I am determined to start therapy. I also sense that if I try to talk about sex with my wife that it will make her hostile as you suggested of your own relationship. I don't think she can be any happier than I am and have sensed that she would feel hurt and become defensive.

So, your answer very much captures how it is and suggests a general strategy and focus.

However, I am looking also for ideas on how to find pleasure with each other. Things that will bring us together and encourage a closeness that has disappeared but loving things that will not put pressure on her. I am the adventurous one and she has never been playful.

So, anyone who can tell me how they find pleasure with their lover without putting pressure on the asexual partner, please speak up.

hopeforthefuture

[scamper]

I am really enjoying the interesting discussion in this thread - I just wanted to post something I've definitely said in other threads before, but which seems applicable here. It is in response to this:

EXACTLY!!! This is EXACTLY my point. Intimacy is, to me, not a sexual thing at all. Sure, sexuals see sex as intimate, I get that. But there are so many other things that are as well, why is the orgasm part such a big deal?

It's natural that sexuals and asexuals have trouble understanding each others' points of view, but i think a crucial part of bridging the gap is understanding that the way the two sides view intimacy is actually pretty different as well.

The intimacy that sexuality brings to a sexual person's life and relationships cannot be replaced by other types of intimacy. At all. They are not comparable. There is no substitute.

If a person loses their ability to have sex due to disability or injury, I think most sexuals would not consider leaving their partner. This is in part because the partner can't perform sexually (rather than not wanting to), but for many sexuals this situation would signal the death of a very important and deep part of the relationship - it would be a loss that they would have to mourn and would always miss.

If you've invested yourself in a life with another person, and something happens to them that disables them in one way or another, you mourn the loss of that thing and continue with the relationship because you love the person. But that doesn't mean you would accept that situation at the start of the relationship. And the fact that you accept it as the result of cruel fate doesn't mean you aren't deeply saddened by it.

Perhaps if one's partner is in an accident that affects their brain and makes them unable to have emotions, it's something you cope with. But would you start a relationship with someone who can't have feelings?

If you're an asexual who enjoys (or even craves) other types of intimacy, would you start a relationship with a person who was aromantic and disinterested in all intimate activity? Someone who would never ask you how your day was or take your feelings into consideration or want to cuddle or share a meaningful moment with you?

Sexuality is a type of intimacy that sexuals need and asexuals don't - that's fine. People are different and it's not necessary for everyone to want the same things out of life.

But if we're trying to understand each other, maybe it's more helpful to imagine another aspect of relating to other people that you consider absolutely crucial and then imagine having to do without it for the rest of your life, instead of trying to figure out what makes sex (specifically) so special, because obviously you're unlikely to start suddenly seeing it the way a sexual person does.

[Hallucigenia]

If a person loses their ability to have sex due to disability or injury, I think most sexuals would not consider leaving their partner. This is in part because the partner can't perform sexually (rather than not wanting to), but for many sexuals this situation would signal the death of a very important and deep part of the relationship - it would be a loss that they would have to mourn and would always miss.

I've never known a disabled person closely enough to know this from them, so I'm just going from guesses / Internet research, but I think another factor in that situation would be that the disabled person remembers being sexual and understands why their non-disabled partner feels sexual attraction and desire. Most of them would probably still feel some sexual desire on an emotional, non-physical level. And even if they couldn't get aroused, there's a lot of other things they might enjoy doing to make their partners happy.

So it's a far cry from being a completely, naturally asexual person, who has no idea why sexuality is so important to their partner and feels more and more alienated the more they try to "compromise".

[scamper]

If a person loses their ability to have sex due to disability or injury, I think most sexuals would not consider leaving their partner. This is in part because the partner can't perform sexually (rather than not wanting to), but for many sexuals this situation would signal the death of a very important and deep part of the relationship - it would be a loss that they would have to mourn and would always miss.

I've never known a disabled person closely enough to know this from them, so I'm just going from guesses / Internet research, but I think another factor in that situation would be that the disabled person remembers being sexual and understands why their non-disabled partner feels sexual attraction and desire. Most of them would probably still feel some sexual desire on an emotional, non-physical level. And even if they couldn't get aroused, there's a lot of other things they might enjoy doing to make their partners happy.

So it's a far cry from being a completely, naturally asexual person, who has no idea why sexuality is so important to their partner and feels more and more alienated the more they try to "compromise".

Also very true. We should never underestimate the benefit of having a partner who can understand and relate on a deep level to how you feel, even if they can't always meet your needs or vice versa.

Of course, many disabled people are able to have healthy sex lives, but in the hypothetical example of those who can't - I do agree that it'd be a far cry from being with someone who is naturally asexual.

[Psyche]

I think that a big part of the difference is that people *don't* see asexuals as being "unable" to have sex; they see them as being celibate, choosing not to have sex while retaining the complete ability to do so.

People have become (grudgingly) more tolerant towards people who cannot do the things that society asks of them, but this doesn't mean they are tolerant of people who won't do the things society asks of them. And there are good reasons for this, but still, it leads to a lot of misery when a person and a society (or two people) disagree on what is a legitimate reason for not doing something.

Case in point: when I was first afflicted with CVD I had to use a big ol' walking stick to get around my university. People didn't openly chastise me for attending school with a disability; instead, they chastised me for using this stick. "Surely you don't really need that thing. If you tried hard enough you could walk without it. Or you could use something fancier that suits our aesthetics. Well, if you're too *stubborn* to accommodate us, you shouldn't be here."

To me, I "couldn't" give up the walking stick because to get around without it I had to crawl or cling to a wall, and when I tried to go up and down stairs I tended to fall down them, putting me at risk for serious injury. But to them I "could" and I was just not trying hard enough.

I'm not saying that all people do this kind of thing, but I do think it makes a relationship between an asexual and a sexual potentially much trickier, because it's human nature to say, "It wouldn't REALLY be as hard for him/her as he/she says, he/she's just being selfish." Especially when you haven't experienced the person's situation yourself.

[scamper]

I think that probably does (unfortunately) happen in too many cases - people assume that if someone seems physically capable of doing something but chooses not to, it's because they just don't want to - and the deeper reasons for why they "don't want to" aren't taken as seriously as a physical impairment.

However, there's still a difference between the hypothetical disabled person and a true asexual - and that's the internal mental/emotional side of things. That is, the sexual desire and attraction for your partner (emotional, physical, whatever). Even if it can never be acted on, understanding/sharing that feeling is the difference. Asexual people don't feel that, and for the most part don't wish to feel it, and if they do have a sexual partner, often can't relate to those feelings.

So, the difference wouldn't necessarily be in the 'lack of ability' to do something - that might be the same in both cases - but the underlying understanding of those feelings and desires it in the first place.

[Freed_Spirit]

*quietly leaving and tea and cucumber sandwiches, utterly humbled by the eloquence and empathy of all the posters in this thread*

I love you all.