I think my partner is asexual but I'm madly in love with them and don't know what to do :(

[Liara]

And so what? Sexual people in mixed relationship don't have the right to explain if they are in pain even here? Even here, we must stay silent and smile like every where else? Even here, in the only space I know where I can talk about that because I know it will be understood?

Really??

I would love to tell happy stories, but I don't have one... My story's not horrible, or bad, my partner is a great person who deserves the best. Best I can't give her. But I try. And I will try again because I have to. But I will not hide the pain...

[Heleleth]

1 minute ago, Liara said:

And so what? Sexual people in mixed relationship don't have the right to explain if they are in pain even here? Even here, we must stay silent and smile like every where else? Even here, in the only space I know where I can talk about that because I know it will be understood?

Really??

I would love to tell happy stories, but I don't have one... My story's not horrible, or bad, my partner is a great person who deserves the best. Best I can't give her. But I try. And I will try again because I have to. But I will not hide the pain...

I think I've explained myself thoroughly enough that people are allowed to relate they are in pain and don't need to stay in relationships they're not happy with, I'm not explaining that point any further. I'm done.

[Olallieberry]

1 hour ago, Heleleth said:

These stories are from strangers, I don't know them.

But you read something in to them… that was what I was asking about.

[Heleleth]

14 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

But you read something in to them… that was what I was asking about.

Forgive me, but what do you mean?

[Olallieberry]

2 hours ago, Heleleth said:

Forgive me, but what do you mean?

You said the stories were “telling.” So you interpreted them in some way, you read something in to them, you imputed some meaning from them. What I was trying to find out was, what? You didn’t say how they were telling, of what they were telling, what the unspoken message you got from them was. (Or maybe you did and I didn't pick up on it - keep reading till the end, here.)

 

10 hours ago, Heleleth said:

It's just telling to me that I found more success stories out in the wild without searching for them than on here, even with threads dedicated to it.

When I asked what i was about them that was telling, and in what way/what meaning were they telling to you, and you said you don’t know the people who told them, it was the opposite of acting like you did know something about the stories you were talking about.

 

10 hours ago, Heleleth said:

I have to wonder if the percentage of non-asexual members outweighs the percentage that are asexual.

Maybe this is all you meant and I read too much into it, thinking there was something else.

 

*shrugs*

[Guest Queerdo]

3 hours ago, Sally said:

Or -- perhaps you could gather the happy stories together that you have heard and start a site of your own for others who don't want to hear the reality of incompatibility.  

I feel like that's the subtext here. Great pain is real (and it is), allosexuals who are comfortable in non-sexual relationships are not real (but we are). And there's a bunch of other, likely unintentional, exclusive language about the grand meaning of sexuality, sex as an essential love language in relationships, and so on.

 

4 hours ago, Ollie415 said:

Successfully-partnered people in pain-free relationships don’t have anywhere near as much motivation to come here and post about their relationship.

I don't know that any relationship can be "pain-free." To paraphrase one award-nominated story I read today, that's like wishing for a world where it never rains.

 

But it's not just microaggressions, there's a bit of just plain aggression including defdebs where people who choose not to have sex are "effectively asexual" and that one guy who spent a lot of time trolling through people's history to debunk all the mixed-orientation relationships.

 

4 hours ago, Philip027 said:

It's not unlike a straight relationship where one person realizes they're gay; more often than not it spells an end for the relationship.  Usually the best they can hope for is remaining on amicable/friendly terms, particularly so if they've already become parents together.

Depends on the relationship. A lot of queer people, and a good number of straight people, don't want that kind of relationship to start with. And it's not unheard of for those relationships to evolve into more fluid families of choice that maintain close bonds over long periods of time, or for queer people to have our most intimate emotional relationships with sexually incompatible people. The idea that your spouse is going to be your most important sexual AND emotional relationship quite explicitly isn't even true for straight people. A lean majority of married women do not rank their spouse as their most important emotional relationship.

 

For me, the "fifth door" is to grow into a completely different relationship not dependent on heterocentric assumptions about what partners should be to each other.

 

In my circle, there's a lot of people who don't have a steady sexual and romantic partner, because finding a compatible person really is that hard, and it's also the space where we're at highest risk for experiencing abuse. I feel that partnered people here, in pain or living their dreams, need to take a deep now and then and avoid overgeneralizing about what allosexual people want. My life would not be improved by going back to kissing frogs in the hope of finding Mx. Right.

[Traveler40]

On 7/7/2023 at 5:41 PM, Ceebs said:

I think you missed the point of @Traveler40's story. 
 

Had to go back and read a shitload here to figure out what the reference was...

Hilarious! I’m literally swaying in a hammock as I read this thread. I feel I’ve come full circle in a moment. 
 

The point was missed full stop. @ceebs nailed it as usual. 
 

The rest of the responses are thoughtful and clear on the point and there’s nothing to add or more derailing to do. It’s back to swaying in the wind here. 👋🏼 

[Olallieberry]

6 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

I don't know that any relationship can be "pain-free." To paraphrase one award-nominated story I read today, that's like wishing for a world where it never rains.

Fine.

 

Let's stop pretending I didn't mean "people who have this specific pain over this specific issue."

 

And let's stop pretending there's no contrast between couples with merely uncomfortable levels of pain which they are lucky enough to be able to work out, and other couples with existential levels of pain and really dim prospects of resolving it together.

 

 

[Sally]

11 hours ago, Heleleth said:

I have to wonder if the percentage of non-asexual members outweighs the percentage that are asexual.

AVEN is a website primarily for asexuals, as the name implies, and at any given time, the site's members are primarily asexuals.  I've been on AVEN for more than 15 years, and I can certainly attest to that.   So wonder no more.

[Heleleth]

47 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Hilarious! I’m literally swaying in a hammock as I read this thread. I feel I’ve come full circle in a moment. 
 

The point was missed full stop. @ceebs nailed it as usual. 
 

The rest of responses are thoughtful and clear and there’s nothing to add or more derailing to do. It’s back to swaying in the wind here. 👋🏼 

I realized the point you tried to make and apologize for taking it the way I did as that way is not uncommon for me to read. 

 

Having thought about it further I realize this part of the site is going to mostly be a place where people can share their pain and air their grievances; I can't take that away from them and nor would I want to. Would I like there for more people to step forward and said they made it work? Yes. Would removing all stories of incompatibility make that a reality? No. 

 

I won't change my tune on how some of the rhetoric used is outright unacceptable though.

 

Also @Ollie415 I meant "telling" in that I found the atmosphere here to be less welcoming to success stories than other places.

[Guest Queerdo]

27 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Fine.

 

Let's stop pretending I didn't mean "people who have this specific pain over this specific issue."

 

And let's stop pretending there's no contrast between couples with merely uncomfortable levels of pain which they are lucky enough to be able to work out, and other couples with existential levels of pain and really dim prospects of resolving it together.

Not pretending at all here. You can't see the contrast when y'all paint only in the color of your own experiences, while dismissing the experiences of others as marginal, or non-existent using semantic word games.

[Olallieberry]

If asexuals were outnumbering sexuals in FSPFA specifically, isn't/wouldn't that be telling of something too?

 

"Telling of what," I hear you asking?

 

Heh. Nothing in particular, I'm just kind of teasing myself. There are a shitload of things someone could read into asexuals outnumbering sexuals in FSPFA, and I'm not endorsing or presenting any of them in particular. I'm definitely not implying or suggesting or saying that asexuals don't belong in FSPFA, so let's just drop that reaction right here.

 

One doesn't have to read anything into anything to recognize potential irony, though.

[Olallieberry]

1 minute ago, Guest Queerdo said:

Not pretending at all here. You can't see the contrast when y'all paint only in the color of your own experiences, while dismissing the experiences of others as marginal, or non-existent using semantic word games.

Who's dismissing shit?

 

Just because someone only tells one side of a story doesn't mean they're dismissing the other side. And when it comes to couples in trouble, how do you expect one to tell the other side's story?

 

And okay, if you weren't pretending, and weren't deliberately distorting what I meant by latching on to the over-literality of the specific words I wrote, then I'll stop accusing you of pretending, and switch gears to just revisiting a couple of memes which I wish I hadn't ever felt it necessary to create.

[Olallieberry]

50 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Let's stop pretending I didn't mean "people who have this specific pain over this specific issue."

 

7 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

Not pretending at all here.

fgs

[Heleleth]

18 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Who's dismissing shit?

 

Just because someone only tells one side of a story doesn't mean they're dismissing the other side. And when it comes to couples in trouble, how do you expect one to tell the other side's story?

 

And okay, if you weren't pretending, and weren't deliberately distorting what I meant by latching on to the over-literality of the specific words I wrote, then I'll stop accusing you of pretending, and switch gears to just revisiting a couple of memes which I wish I hadn't ever felt it necessary to create.

I don't think they're saying that one part of a couple only telling their side is dismissing the other side, I think they're saying that one's negative experiences shouldn't be used to paint all other scenarios as only negative.

[Guest Queerdo]

2 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Just because someone only tells one side of a story doesn't mean they're dismissing the other side.

As long as it's acknowledged as only one side of the story, of course not.

 

But posts here have a bad habit of overgeneralizing that it's just the way all of us allosexual people are while dismissing mixed-orientation relationships as fundamentally unworkable. And why do I need to justify my existence here?

 

 

[Traveler40]

1 hour ago, Heleleth said:

I meant "telling" in that I found the atmosphere here to be less welcoming to success stories than other places.

What other places?
 

Not arguing that point as I have found a way to happily make it work for the most part (forward minded folks exercising Option 3 - Open) and have experienced not all being happy about that here on AVEN. 😂

People can be boxed in by their own minds and don’t know, but it’s not my angst to carry. There are only 4 options towards a happier life in mixed relationships and all are valid.

 

My motto is “Make it Great!”.  It’s not simple or clear, but I’ve had more excellent romantic moments this week than I did in 8 years of celibacy by default. It fulfills me and they aren’t all sexual. So, there you go. 
 

Calling the mismatch what it is and venting about that pain is needed as you note. Anyone who pops into SPFA is welcome to get it off their chest. Many here understand as we’ve lived it. It’s a unique and tough situation and not relatable to the majority of folks. 

 

Lastly, I think people need to spend time to understand their needs and situation much earlier than we do. Sex, Communication, attraction points and Trust are all critical and foundational things to get right before making a commitment.
 

I’m from a generation that wasn’t as open about sex. That is fundamentally problematic as I went on to live. I don’t have regret about the choices made, but I know better now, so endeavor to teach our kids a better way.  I hope they hit the mark sooner is all. 
 

Anyhow, I’m rambling in the great outdoors. The wind is picking up and I’m getting chilly. It’s time to light a fire. I’m glad there’s better understanding, if not exactly what you were looking for. 

 

[Guest Queerdo]

7 hours ago, Ollie415 said:

Successfully-partnered people in pain-free relationships don’t have anywhere near as much motivation to come here and post about their relationship.

If you had quoted the entire passage, you would have seen examples of what I find demotivating about this space, including the guy who latched onto every bit of pain as evidence that people in successful mixed-orientation relationships were faking it.

 

I'm trying to explain that I have very little motivation to discuss my celibacy or mixed-orientation relationship in a space where people routinely make overly-broad claims that both celibacy and mixed-orientation relationships are unhealthy or unrealistic for allosexual people. And especially when compulsory sexuality has been a big part of my relationship trauma, it's often painful to even read posts that claim I need sex to validate my identity.

 

27 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

People can be boxed in by their own minds and don’t know, but it’s not my angst to carry. There are only 4 options towards a happier life in mixed relationships and all are valid.

I think the "four doors" make a lot of cisheterosexist assumptions about what kind of relationship we're talking about. And while it's useful to a lot of people, I wouldn't say those are the only four available. (Although you can reduce anything to n options if you squint hard enough.) But I'm both bi and genderqueer so of course my response to a trick maze is going to be to climb over the top.

[Heleleth]

10 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

What other places?

The other place is shockingly Tumblr.

[Traveler40]

41 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

the "four doors" make a lot of cisheterosexist assumptions

Never heard that one before.

 

41 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

I wouldn't say those are the only four available.

What alternatives would you say?

[ubereatsme]

13 hours ago, Heleleth said:

but I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make, there should be a discussion on how some people make these relationships work without derailing the conversation and asserting it never can

who are these “some people”? Why aren’t they numerous or invested enough to share their positive experiences
 

I’ve asked myself this and I have figured out that they do share their experiences. The one or two you have on these sites and in these asexual spaces are representative of the percentage of people who are happy (enough) in long term mixed orientation relationships.

 

I quickly found that the reasons they are able to be happy is because they manage to adapt the terms of the relationship without having to go without things they really want or need from a partner. They are content without a traditional looking and working relationship. 
 

I have found the majority of unhappily single asexuals want an average relationship just without or very little sex. So telling them they could have a polygamous queer platonic relationship if they just opened their mind is useless to them. 

 

 

 

[Heleleth]

25 minutes ago, ubereatsme said:

who are these “some people”? Why aren’t they numerous or invested enough to share their positive experiences
 

I’ve asked myself this and I have figured out that they do share their experiences. The one or two you have on these sites and in these asexual spaces are representative of the percentage of people who are happy (enough) in long term mixed orientation relationships.

 

I quickly found that the reasons they are able to be happy is because they manage to adapt the terms of the relationship without having to go without things they really want or need from a partner. They are content without a traditional looking and working relationship. 
 

I have found the majority of unhappily single asexuals want an average relationship just without or very little sex. So telling them they could have a polygamous queer platonic relationship if they just opened their mind is useless to them.

 

It's just like another person said, finding your relationship content is not going to motivate one to seek out places such as these when it's meant moreso as a place to vent.

 

Again, you're asserting that you objectively know the percentage of people who make it work from some sample size you're not even really defining.

[Olallieberry]

1 hour ago, Guest Queerdo said:

I think the "four doors" make a lot of cisheterosexist assumptions about what kind of relationship we're talking about. And while it's useful to a lot of people, I wouldn't say those are the only four available.

Have you ever offered others to the seekers here?

 

Would you consider doing so now?

 

I do get that it’s not your job or responsibility to reform cisheterosexists but, if you have a novel perspective, could you overcome the “teachable moment” aspect of this to share anything helpful with the SPFA’s here seeking help?

 

Or not. Seizing the teachable moment is welcome too. If you’re willing.

[ubereatsme]

10 minutes ago, Heleleth said:

It's just like another person said, finding your relationship content is not going to motivate one to seek out places such as these when it's meant moreso as a place to vent.

 

Again, you're asserting that you objectively know the percentage of people who make it work from some sample size you're not even really defining.

If there were tonnes of asexual people in happy mixed orientation relationships, they’d be on here discussing other things to do with being asexual. It’s not like relationship discussion is the only reason people come to asexual groups and spaces. 
 

They are rare, that is why you seldom see them. 

8 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Have you ever offered others to the seekers here?

the suggestion will be some sort of alternative relationship dynamic which isn’t cohesive with most people’s wants and needs. 
 

I’ve had people suggest a lesbian relationship because women have lower sex drives and so they will be less likely to care about my need for no sex. The person couldn’t understand that I can’t just orientate whatever attraction or desire I possess towards people of the same gender. 
 

I think the same about other suggestions like polygamy. I just don’t desire a relationship where either of us are intimately involved and committed to others. I get that it would increase my chance of partnering but I’m sure I wouldn’t be happy so it’s pointless

 

[Heleleth]

13 minutes ago, ubereatsme said:

If there were tonnes of asexual people in happy mixed orientation relationships, they’d be on here discussing other things to do with being asexual. It’s not like relationship discussion is the only reason people come to asexual groups and spaces. 
 

They are rare, that is why you seldom see them.

I see you're not going to change your mind and I don't feel like repeating myself again therefore I'm backing out of this part of the conversation.

 

14 minutes ago, ubereatsme said:

the suggestion will be some sort of alternative relationship dynamic which isn’t cohesive with most people’s wants and needs. 

 

I’ve had people suggest a lesbian relationship because women have lower sex drives and so they will be less likely to care about my need for no sex. The person couldn’t understand that I can’t just orientate whatever attraction or desire I possess towards people of the same gender. 
 

I think the same about other suggestions like polygamy. I just don’t desire a relationship where either of us are intimately involved and committed to others. I get that it would increase my chance of partnering but I’m sure I wouldn’t be happy so it’s pointless

This is basically saying it won't work for others because it might not work for you.

[ubereatsme]

2 minutes ago, Heleleth said:

I see you're not going to change your mind and I don't feel like repeating myself again therefore I'm backing out of this part of the conversation.

I think trying to prove that there are many people in mixed orientation relationships where both people are content is fruitless. It can happen but it is rare. I don’t think honesty about that is a bad thing. 

 

4 minutes ago, Heleleth said:

This is basically saying it won't work for others because it might not work for you.

I think it is pointless to try and make yourself be happy with something that you don’t want. Your needs can evolve but trying to be happy with an alternative relationship where your partner has sex with other people and lives in a different house when you’ve always wanted a traditional spouse and kids is a possibly harmful endeavour. 
 

my lived experience is that people who try and argue that it is possible and not all that rare suggest things way outside of my box and outside of most people want in their life. I used to find it very traumatic to be told that I could have what I want if I would just agree to polygamy of some kind and that I am hurting myself by not doing it

 

[Heleleth]

I can see that you're just projecting your experiences on others at this point. I'm done.

[Guest Queerdo]

1 minute ago, ubereatsme said:

They are content without a traditional looking and working relationship. 

The whole premise of the four doors is that a "relationship" at the start involves both sex and "romance." Three of the four options are about retrofitting that traditional relationship structure to accommodate a newly discovered asexuality. One option involves breaking up. And those doors are framed as mutually exclusive.

 

Those assumptions are true for a lot of people, but they're not true for everyone. Less true of queer people in non-traditional relationship structures. And not applicable to all straight people either. So to address how it works for us:

 

1. Compromise: Well, yeah, we've both compromised throughout the entire relationship.

2. Celibacy: I'm celibate for my own reasons, and probably would be if I was single as well.

3. Non-monogamy: Monogamy in our relationship has never been more than a guideline rather than a rule. It's useful for minimizing potential drama. And hey, I'm both non-monogamous and celibate.

4. Breaking up: We're still husband and wife in legal fiction. I'm not a husband any more but they've NEVER been a wife. There are a lot of people (some here) who would argue that without romance or sex there's not really a partnership at all. In fact, there are a lot of people who deny the validity of our relationship because of what we are.

 

I suppose that takes us to #5, which for us was a mutual understanding that the gender roles and compulsory sexuality required of "traditional" relationships was harmful for both of us, and we should stop expecting that of our own relationship. A relationship doesn't have to have sex or romance to be valid. We changed the narrative from failing at marriage because of who we are, to a family-of-choice where we get to explore who we are together. It wasn't the "sexual incompatibility" that required change, it was our evolving gender identities and need to create a healing space that demanded it.

 

But as I've said, I'm the sort of queer person to likes to find exceptions and smash every category system that is supposed to explain what I do. So you can also say that all four doors lead to option #5 anyway, which is some form of transformation. Generally I think we need fewer categories and more unique autobiographies.

 

38 minutes ago, Ollie415 said:

Would you consider doing so now?

I apologize for getting snappish with you. I think I've explained a lot of this in this post and I need to bow out. As I said, I don't feel comfortable or motivated to do more than look in on this forum once a month or so.

[Guest Queerdo]

13 minutes ago, ubereatsme said:

my lived experience is that people who try and argue that it is possible and not all that rare suggest things way outside of my box and outside of most people want in their life. I used to find it very traumatic to be told that I could have what I want if I would just agree to polygamy of some kind and that I am hurting myself by not doing it

You're entitled to your boundaries.

[ubereatsme]

9 minutes ago, Heleleth said:

I can see that you're just projecting your experiences on others at this point. I'm done.

I think projecting real life experiences is infinitely better than projecting hopes and dreams of a reality where there are many mixed orientation relationships to aspire to. 

 

7 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

Those assumptions are true for a lot of people, but they're not true for everyone.

 

Less true of queer people in non-traditional relationship structures.

But they are true for the vast majority of people. The queer people I know are all in pretty traditional relationships too. 
 

who it isn’t true for are people who are in or want non traditional relationship structures and those are very few people relatively 

10 minutes ago, Guest Queerdo said:

But as I've said, I'm the sort of queer person to likes to find exceptions and smash every category system that is supposed to explain what I do. So you can also say that all four doors lead to option #5 anyway,

Do you think it’s fair to say that most people can’t be happy with the things that you can be happy (enough) with? That the things you want or can still thrive with are pretty niche?