Acceptance vs Questioning

[Ziffler]

Ok! I think we need a new thread to chomp on for awhile.

I'm not sure how to phrase the idea in my head, so please bare with me as I try to express what I am thinking.

Some have asked what is an older asexual? Like in a definition.

I have been reading on the welcome forum and one of the main themes is "questioning". Questioning: Am I alone in the universe? Is this a stage? How do I know I won't like it if I never try it? Maybe there is someone for me, I just haven't found them yet? Is there a medical problem with me?

So what I am trying to get straight in my head is the relationship between, Older, age, maturity, acceptance, questioning, options, trying, experiencing, giving up, youth and desire; and how they relate to being an "Older Asexual".

For me, being an "older asexual" is being an asexual that has matured, irregardless of physical age to the place where they have accepted what they are, without any lingering hopes, desires or illusions that they might still find that one person or circumstance that will change them into a sexual being.

I read many posts on the "Welcome Forum" of asexuals that accept that they are asexual, "in principal", but I can hear in their posts that they are still looking, longing and desiring that partner or that one "something" that will make them "Normal". They still have the hope of maybe trying sex with someone to see if they can make it fit. Maybe its just a hormonal thing or a chemical thing or a psyche thing. Maybe its something they will outgrow. Maybe it's a stage.

Am I making any kind of sense with my rambling?

I don't see "older asexual" as having to do with age, but rather having to do with maturity. The maturity to accept who you are, as you are, without illusions.

So what do you think? Can you be older in age and still be questioning your asexuality and thus not be an"older asexual"? Can you be young in age but mature in accepting yourself and thus be an "Older Asexual"?

Or is this a stupid thread that needs to be deleted? LOL.

The reason behind this thread, is that I get frustrated with people, especially older people that can't get over what they are, and keep a dream going that is unattainable. If you are asexual, there isn't a prince charming or a fairy princess coming for you. But then, maybe i am too pessimistic? What you think?

Ok, that should get some opinions stirring.

[cijay]

I tend to think of it as a section where discussions remain a bit more on topic instead of Power Rangers and video games being introduced. I don't think it really is an age thing - it's hard to explain. I was on a forum awhile back and, while everyone was great, there was posts of "OMG, I did it, I got my tongue pierced!" and 150 replies of "OMG, great." and "i got mine dun 2."

I also see there's not as much chat room slang or

"i was talking to a friend and she told me that she didn't think asexuals existed and i said no way i don't have to prove myself to you bcuz like that is sooo stupid and then my mom came in well we were talking and asked what we were talking about and I went OMG what do i tell her so what do i do now"

type of things things.

[roddy9uk]

I would rather hope that those posting on THIS forum have enough experience of life in general to realise that not everything worth knowing has been written in a school text-book.

I would also hope that people here are mature enough to realise that personal responsibility is not something that applies only to others, that accidents of birth or in the world around them may explain but never excuse any particular behaviour..

And of course I also hope that people here are mature enough to realise that maturity does not come through age alone but through understanding. Age and experience tends to help this understanding but are of themselves no guarantee of it.

roddy

[Lucinda]

Hello Ziffler darling and members of the Older Asexual Forum,

Thank you for starting a fresh thread.

In my opinion, a person who is holding out hope that *the one* will come along and make them a sexual being isn't truly an asexual.

I think it is possible that some people see asexuality and AVEN as permission not to have sex ... not to succumb to peer pressure, not to jump from one shallow relationship to another, not to immediately have to find another sexual relationship after a particular messy breakup or divorce. These folks may ponder whether they are asexual, but in actuality they may want to be temporarily celibate. I would imagine they will be our future sexual beings when the timing is right and *the one* has come along.

An "older asexual", I would agree, has accepted their asexuality and has no desire to change. They are comfortable with themselves in that respect.

Lucinda

[M51]

An "older asexual", I would agree, has accepted their asexuality and has no desire to change. They are comfortable with themselves in that respect.

Hmmm...what about someone who accepts their asexuality, has no desire to change...but still holds out for someone else who will accept it also? An asexual, ideally, or a very understanding sexual?

I made a big leap in April 06 when I realized I do not ever want to "compromise" again. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than give in to unwanted sex ever again. Yet I still seek out companionship, and still get excited at the idea of a new and promising relationship....and still wonder if, IF, everything else was right, if I could compromise again, maybe? Is it silly to still hold out the hope that I might find SOMEONE?

I mean, I have met several people here on AVEN who I think, if it were not for the distance...so surely there is a chance that someday everything will come together?

[cijay]

I don't think there's anything wrong with holding out and hoping 'the one' will still show, but like Lucinda said, not hoping that they'll come along and *poof* you'll become sexual.

[Ziffler]

M51 Wrote:

Hmmm...what about someone who accepts their asexuality, has no desire to change...but still holds out for someone else who will accept it also? An asexual, ideally, or a very understanding sexual?

M51, That very thought came to mind as I attempted to put this thread together. I don't have an answer for you. I know as for myself, I have come to the place where I have accepted that I will be alone forever. Doesn't mean that my house will be empty. I doubt that will ever happen. I will always have someone living in the house with me, but as for a relationship, nope. I will remain alone.

There is a reason for my making the decision, or I should say the decision was made for me, I just finally accepted it. I finally accepted the fact, that I sabotage relationships. I'm asexual/asexual. The very thought of opening up to someone else scares me to death. It took a long time for me to understand that about myself. Like others, I wanted a relationship. Someone to complete me. But after years of unsuccessful attempts, I realized that I will never be able to have that type of relationship because inside me, I fight against it. I get the "What if's". What if they want to kiss? What if they want to cuddle? What if they want to pet? What if they want oral? What if they want other things? Like I siad, I am asexual/asexual. Even kissing makes me very uncomfortable. So in all reality, there isn't any way for a close relationship to happen if you can't even get huggy close.

Once I realized and accepted that about myself, then I discovered that I am now happy with myself. I can have people live in the house with me, or visit or socialize as I want to socialize, yet not look for or try to establish a relationship, and be a very happy person. Once I took the "Maybe relationship" off the table for good, then I discovered my life is now stress free and I can enjoy it. I can be the person I was made to be and stop trying to transform it into something that I thought I wanted but in reality I didnt want at all.

But I don't know about other asexuals? That's something each has to discover for themselves. I think an inward look is essential though to figure out, why you don't have a relationship, if in fact you think you want one. Is it all about other people and their expectations of you, or maybe it is you, submarining yourself. You get so far, and then get cold feet? You start imagining all the ways the relationship might go and get very uncomfortable? You end it, because you get scared? That was me.

I know lots of asexuals on AVEN, post about wanting to find another asexual to have a relationship with. I know that would NOT work for me. Even though they professed being asexual, in my mind, I would never accept it. I would always be anticipating them wanting a kiss or a cuddle or worse, and I would be expecting them to initate sex at any time, so I could never get comfortable, even with a professed asexual.

I think maybe thats part of the maturing into an "Older Asexual" though. Discovering for yourself and then accepting for yourself, what and where you can go and do, and what you can't. We are each individuals and what is for one, isn't for another. But that is why I like this forum, because more of us, here, KNOW, who we are, and what we are, and have accepted ourselves. HECK, we are just excited that we are not alone anymore, and that finally we discovered that there are others of us in the world and we can share these wierd feelings with people like us, that can understand.

Ok, I rambled on too much. I yield the floor to someone else to give their thoughts.

[Ziffler]

Lucinda Wrote:

I think it is possible that some people see asexuality and AVEN as permission not to have sex ... not to succumb to peer pressure, not to jump from one shallow relationship to another, not to immediately have to find another sexual relationship after a particular messy breakup or divorce. These folks may ponder whether they are asexual, but in actuality they may want to be temporarily celibate.

Ok. Before I even begin rambling on this point, I want it made clear, I am not judging anyone. OK? Because I know before I start its going to sound like judging. But I cant decide if anyone else is asexual or not, just like others cant make that decision for me.

But Lucinda, I agree with you in some cases. I read through the welcome forum and welcome newbies as often as I can. I believe it to be important that everyone feels welcome and not abandoned. I don't like seeing someone post in the welcome section and only have 3 or 4 replies.

But reading in the welcome section, one reads alot of differing posts. Many, maybe even most, inside you think, yep they are asexual. Been there, done that, felt that, went through that, yep they are asexual.

But then there are those that post something like, " I was sexual for years and enjoyed sex but now I don't like it and think I am asexual." Or, "I don't do sex, but I would if the right person came along."

I agree with Lucinda, that some people are mistaking asexuality with celebacy. Sexual people can decide to be celebate. Asexual people that decision was made for them at birth. Not to say an asexual person cant force themselves to have sex, because they can, but it would be forcing themselves. Isn't the very word "asexual" meaning NOT SEXUAL? If a person posts something like I havent been sexual, I am a virgin, but am looking for the right person to be sexual with, am I asexual? Heck no you are NOT asexual. You are celebate. You are looking for someone to have sex with, doesn't that by definition mean you are sexual? You are a celebate/sexual.

Of course I don't post anything like this on the welcome page, because its just not polite. And because I can be wrong. They might be asexual and just not realized that they aren't looking for sex, but romance instead.

Which makes me wonder about something else. Is a romantic/asexual the same thing as a celebate/sexual?

Being an asexual/asexual it is difficult for me to come to terms with asexuals wanting romance with cuddling, hugging, kissing and everything else that goes with being sexual, except for the sex. DON'T GET MAD! I know intellectually that there are many differing asexuals and I'm not saying a romantic/asexual, isn't asexual. I am only saying it is very difficult for ME to grasp it, because there isn't a romantic bone in my body. No pun intended. LOL.

Ok, I probably mad someone mad, so I better stop here. Again, I am not trying to judge anyone, I am only attempting to understand. It is very difficult to understand feelings that you have never had. I sort of feel like DATA or Mr. Spock from Star Trek. I see the feelings in people around me, and intellectually know what they are, but have never experienced them, so am always on the outside looking in.

Ok, time for someone else to opine.

[cijay]

Which makes me wonder about something else. Is a romantic/asexual the same thing as a celebate/sexual?

From what I figure - our definition is someone who doesn't experience sexual attraction. Sexuals (by our definition) experience sexual attraction so there'd be a big difference between romantic asexuals and celibate sexuals but both want the same 'result' - the cuddling and such without the sex.

Romantic asexuals just want the intamacy without the sex. We can hold and cuddle and hold hands (I'm not wanting groping or fondling) and that's satisfactory. I have no sexual attraction towards the other person, it'd be an emotional attraction, being smitten with the person and not because the person is well hung or has big boobs. (Don't care about what's hung or how big the boobs are.)

Celibate sexual would be someone who experiences the sexual attraction but doesn't act on it - for whatever reason, either medical, religious or just a decison.

So they're a bit the same, as I've made a DECISION to remain celibate but for me it wasn't a hard decision to make because I'm asexual.

did I say that right? I'm in a hurry - gotta' go to work, bye!

[FISH']

I hope I remain asexual forever, and I'm very much afraid of changing into a sexual (just a teen so nothing is certain yet).

[Ziffler]

Turtlicious Wrote:

I hope I remain asexual forever, and I'm very much afraid of changing into a sexual (just a teen so nothing is certain yet).

I love your username and avatar. LOL.

I can't speak for you and your situation. But I KNEW at age 12 that I was asexual and was never getting married or having sex. Back then, in the dark ages, there wasn't the label, "asexual", I was just a freak, But I knew I was different and I knew it was forever.

So, I don't agree with, "Just a teen so nothing certain yet."

From my experience, and its just my experience, I have no proof of any kind, but from my experience, once an asexual, always an asexual. I don't think anyone is one orientation and then changes to another orientation. I know some like to say you can't tell until after puberty what your orientation is, but I disagreew ith that assumption also, frommy personal experience and from testamonies from others that knew what orientation they were when very young. Both gays and straights have said they knew early on. It would be a little more difficult for asexuals I think, to KNOW very early, because as a young child and you have no attraction, then you can just chalk it up to being young. But deffinately looking back, I can see that I was asexual from birth, but only really aware age late 12 early 13.

But as for your fear of becoming sexual. If in fact your hormones havent kicked in, and you become sexual later on, then its what is supposed to be, and you will be happy, because that will be who you are, and those hormones will be active. LOL. So, Enjoy your life now and don't worry about what Might be in the future. Like I posted on another thread, I think a teen living celebate/asexually during the teen years is a good thing anyway, even if they are sexual. Teens should save something for their adult lives. LOL.

So please try not to live so afraid of becoming sexual. If it happens, then it happens, but most likely if you are in your mid to late teens, I doubt there will be much change. Your orientation is probably set for life.

Ok, this is my OPINION. Nothing set in stone. LOL.

[vikingo]

I consider myself an older asexual. Older because I am expected older than my average age will probably be in the end and the average age of the more visible aven users. It doesn't mean that my posts are more saturated with wisdom and profoundness. I think it more affects how I listen and reflect actually ... Older generally doesn't mean resigned. Resigned people don't ask questions.

[2tabbymom]

It is very difficult to understand feelings that you have never had. I sort of feel like DATA or Mr. Spock from Star Trek. I see the feelings in people around me, and intellectually know what they are, but have never experienced them, so am always on the outside looking in.

Ziffler, you put it so well and I totally agree.

But I KNEW at age 12 that I was asexual and was never getting married or having sex.

Unfortunately, I thought that it would happen eventually. As a 12-year-old in the early 70s, I didn't know there were any alternatives to the norm, and we weren't as knowledgeable as the 12-year-olds today (many of whom seem to dress like streetwalkers). I had never heard of a lesbian and didn't really understand what it meant to be "queer" (the only term we ever used at that age). I always wondered if I hadn't found the right person because my family was NOT trying to set me up with guys and I hate going to bars.

Calling myself an older asexual just means that I have found others who grew up with a similar vantage point (1960s & 70s) and have lots of "life experience".

The posters in this forum may not agree about every topic, but they try to be polite and allow others to have their own opinions. I also agree with Cijay that there is not as much chat room slang and run-on sentences. I enjoy reading the threads in "Older Asexuals" because there is a great deal of depth to the posts and everyone seems to be very deliberate and thoughtful in their answers. We aren't trying to drive up post counts with lots of wasted posts.

[PollyB]

I consider myself an older asexual.... It doesn't mean that my posts are more saturated with wisdom and profoundness. I think it more affects how I listen and reflect actually ... Older generally doesn't mean resigned. Resigned people don't ask questions.

I like that, it's how I feel. I don't always stay on the "older" forum because I get more interested in discussions elsewhere, and have always been a "questioning" person, which to me does not mean someone who expects to be rescued by anyone else, but someone interested in exploring who I am. Tanwen suggests I think too hard, but I want to! I've always been involved in sexual politics, and have known a few people whose self-definitions/orientations have changed over the years (even though they swore blind they never could), so I believe orientation is a complex business. We are hugely different from one another, and actually have a policy of self-definition, not of deciding on other people's behalf whether they are "really" asexual or not, which is for them to decide.

[cijay]

Turtlicious Wrote:

I hope I remain asexual forever, and I'm very much afraid of changing into a sexual (just a teen so nothing is certain yet).

So, I don't agree with, "Just a teen so nothing certain yet."

Neither do I. I'm 44, have never felt sexually attracted to anyone, was just as glad when I realised I don't have to try to pretend to WANT to play the mating game.

I'm not 'afraid' of 'turning sexual', there are so many real things to be afraid of, I don't spend a lot of time with 'what if' situations.

[BunnyK.]

I hope I remain asexual forever, and I'm very much afraid of changing into a sexual (just a teen so nothing is certain yet).

It's not THAT bad on my side of the fence. :lol:

[KAGU143]

I consider myself to be an older asexual, which is probably a good thing since I'm 54 :D , and I'm in the semi-romantic category.

I'm NOT going to suddenly want sex - EVER, and I have no real use for kissing, although I can endure it if it's not the wet kind.

I DO enjoy non-sexual contact and snuggling sometimes, though. Basically, the kinds of things that I enjoy would also be perfectly appropriate between an adult and a child.

Children need a certain amount of contact, and I sometimes wonder if that part of me still hasn't grown up. It doesn't show any signs of it at all, unfortunately.

It's my confounded inner child! That little delinquent has caused me NO END of trouble!

(And I think it's the same one that has the insatiable sweet tooth!)

-GB

[Pete78]

I think the "older asexuals" forum should be defined by whatever else is going on in the other forums. Quite simply, it should be for topics that are of interest to those that are "older" than most people using the site.

The name of the forum brings to mind golf, social security checks, and grandchildren... but based on the majority of what goes on elsewhere on this site it seems to mean anyone who doesn't:

1) Start a post with "My best friend I met 2 months ago... "

2) Have a nosy rooomate

3) go home for spring break

4) have an anti-internet mom that could disrupt their posting.

Basically, I view it as the forum for the minority of posters that are over 30, or live an equivalent lifestyle.

As far as the original definition... I disagree. A 17 year old who has:

accepted what they are, without any lingering hopes, desires or illusions that they might still find that one person or circumstance that will change them into a sexual being.

'

Is not an "older asexual"...

Lucinda above, stated extremely well the temporary situations which probably relate to most posters under 18 or so.

A 35 year old who has had some sexual relations that they haven't enjoyed fully, but who still thinks that they can find some sort of romantic relationship that has some sort of physical relations, short of regular intercourse, would qualify in my opinion.

Or maybe I'm just trying to rationalize my right to post as an under 30 individual.

[Ziffler]

Pete78 Wrote:

Or maybe I'm just trying to rationalize my right to post as an under 30 individual.

Pete, Please, Don't ever feel like you have to rationalize or justify posting here. We look forward to differing ideas and opinions. And seriously, age doesn't matter. Like has been stated it has to do with maturity. Especially the maturity of the post, like others have also stated.

It don't have to be about Geritol and bad backs, just not about the bf/gf I met yesterday has already dumped me for someone else. :D :D :D

I think its time for a light hearted thread.

[Tanwen]

My brain stopped aging about 17, so I'm not too sure I qualify as an 'older asexual', my birth certificate, however states quite categorically that I am. :lol:

I have a higher post count than most others here, so again I may be disqualified (or excommunicated).

I enjoy talking with the younger members, txt spk cn b hrd, but the brain needs to be exercised too.

WW, you can do my thinking too , let's mine get on with festering story lines. (Looking forward to Saturday)

So, from someone with a foot in both camps (or maybe unable to make a decision) there is much we can learn from each other.

Just a thought, not trying to be controversial.

Tan

[lloyd_baker]

"Questioning" is a far too mild a word describe my state of mind all these years until very recently (I am 60 years old).

I'd say that "questioning" rather than "acceptance" may be my true state of mind even now. . . even so, I experience my current state of mind as an incredible relief!

Throughout my life REJECTION or DENIAL would be the more accurate description of my state of mind regarding my "light" sexuality or asexuality. This springs, I think, from the attitudes imparted by my parents. Both were appalled with my lack of self-assertion from toddlerhood on up. They worked night and day to mitigate my natural state.

I know that I confused over the years my asexual tendency with maybe being a "sissy" or "homosexual", which because of my parents' attitudes, I greatly feared. I will write more about this when I get my thoughts together.